Discussion Fanservice in Fairy Tail

[exacta]

Re: Fairy Tail 355 Discussion / 356 Predictions

I'm sorry but complaining about fanservice in Fairy Tail is pretty retarded. This is the type of thing the term "tard" was invented to describe. "Noobish" would also be a fair description. Fairy Tail has always had fanservice.

I wasn't complaining about fanservice. I was saying I think its absurd people are being called retarded for saying Mashima is a perv. The word perv is no more if not less "harsh" than the word you just used, retarded. I'm pretty sure Mashima thinks of himself as a little pervy, and perv is also a word that you see often enough in shounen...I don't think anyone reading manga should be offended by the word.

 

[Kaiten]

If Fairy Tail is "pervy" than so is the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition. Fairy Tail is no more provocative. Neither are particularly racy. Fully dressed girls showing a little cleavage, leg, and mid-riff. There's occasional nudity, with strategic parts artfully covered, of course. I don't think the Swimsuit Edition has been considered pervy in a good forty years. Saying that Fairy Tail is any more perverted would be exceptionally silly, or extremely old fashioned.

Fairy Tail is not even that fanservicy a manga. Compared to Naruto and Bleach it might be, but in the wider world of manga, anime, and light novels it's pretty tame.

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------

It's difficult to talk about FT's fanservice without getting a little bit off topic. Actually, there is nothing wrong with fanservice. You see it in many other series, though not in that scale but whatever. My main issue with FT is that relevant elements in this series are really bad. Plot, plot progression, fights, villains and so on. Adding a shitload of fanservice on top of that just makes it worse, because you get the impression that the author doesn't even care about the other, more important elements of his story.

The fanservice itself is not the problem. It becomes a problem when - in your opinion - there is nothing the series shines with. Literally.

If "there is nothing the series shines with", why are you reading? Basically you are saying that everything is "really bad", the fanservice only makes it worth, and it doesn't seem like the author cares. If Fairy Tail is that bad, why read it, let alone waste time complaining about it? Move on to something you enjoy, rather than read, and complaining about something you don't like. It's your free time, and your entertainment, put it to better use.

 

[exacta]

If Fairy Tail is "pervy" than so is the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition. Fairy Tail is no more provocative. Neither are particularly racy. Fully dressed girls showing a little cleavage, leg, and mid-riff. There's occasional nudity, with strategic parts artfully covered, of course. I don't think the Swimsuit Edition has been considered pervy in a good forty years. Saying that Fairy Tail is any more perverted would be exceptionally silly, or extremely old fashioned.

I can tell you right now if I read that chapter at work on my iPhone during my break and someone from HR saw it, I would probably have a hard time explaining my way out of that one. Also, the girls in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition are wearing swimsuits. They aren't naked. I'm not offended by fanservice. I just said Mashima's pervy. Explain to me how it''s not okay to say perv or pervy, but it's totally fine to call some retarded or a tard?

 

[Kaiten]

Calling Fairy Tail pervy is an extreme, over dramatic description of the content being described. Even the loosest definition of pervy would not include Fairy Tail. There's really no need to describe Fairy Tail in such harsh terms. If you described Fairy Tail as pervy to someone who had never read the series, and then showed them chapter 355 as an example, they would probably laugh at you. Unless, of course, they were the type of person who thinks the Swimsuit Edition is scandalous.

Retarded is just playground talk. That's how people talk among friends, in informal situations. Maybe not polite, but it's not meant as an insult. It's just a more crude way of describing something as silly, or nonsensical. Nothing really wrong with saying it's "retarded" to call Fairy Tail pervy. It's just a colloquialism. The ethics of the word are terrible, but this is not the thread, nor the forum, for such a conversation.

Fairy Tail might not be the type of thing I would want my boss to see me reading during a break. I probably wouldn't start flipping through the Swimsuit Edition, or a Victoria Secret's catalog at work either. That doesn't make it pervy. If I read Fairy Tail, I would flip through a volume at a Barnes and Nobles without feeling like a perv. It's not exactly like whipping out a Playboy, or worse, in public.

Swimsuit Edition does have some nudity, in the same sense FT does. There are always a few spreads of girls topless, with just a hand covering their chest, or something like that. And it's not like FT has "nudity" every chapter. Every once in a while, but not that often. Most chapters the girls are dressed, even if they are wearing revealing outfits. And when there is nudity, key parts are always covered. There's always a hand, fog, a tree branch or whatever. Inuyasha has actually shown more than Fairy Tail ever has.

 

[exacta]

Calling Fairy Tail pervy is an extreme, over dramatic description of the content being described. Even the loosest definition of pervy would not include Fairy Tail. There's really no need to describe Fairy Tail in such harsh terms. If you described Fairy Tail as pervy to someone who had never read the series, and then showed them chapter 355 as an example, they would probably laugh at you. Unless, of course, they were the type of person who thinks the Swimsuit Edition is scandalous.

Retarded is just playground talk. That's how people talk among friends, in informal situations. Maybe not polite, but it's not meant as an insult. It's just a more crude way of describing something as silly, or nonsensical. Nothing really wrong with saying it's "retarded" to call Fairy Tail pervy. It's just a colloquialism. The ethics of the word are terrible, but this is not the thread, nor the forum, for such a conversation.

They wouldn't laugh at me, they'd probably agree, in the real world at least. They also wouldn't be shocked either though. I was never offended by this chapters fanservice or any fanservice. I just read Fairy Tail and most other shounen for the plot and action, not fanservice. I should also point out that it has definitely not been like this all 8 years. Fairy Tail has more fanservice now that it did when it started, but it doesn't offend me at all. I don't think it was placed in the right context this week though though when Mashima had Warrod reveal serious content at the end. It's a tension killer for me, kinda ruins the mood, that's why I didn't like last weeks chapter. We really have to make this big deal out of a chapter that Mashima himself said he probably got a little carried away with? I don't agree with your take on this at all, but I'm not going to tell you your retarded for it. If calling Mashima pervy isn't appropriate then calling another member retarded definitely isn't.

 

[syx]

If "there is nothing the series shines with", why are you reading? Basically you are saying that everything is "really bad", the fanservice only makes it worth, and it doesn't seem like the author cares. If Fairy Tail is that bad, why read it, let alone waste time complaining about it? Move on to something you enjoy, rather than read, and complaining about something you don't like. It's your free time, and your entertainment, put it to better use.

It seems that I forgot to mention that I was talking about the arc(s) after the "timeskip" and not about the series as a whole. My post is more a current view of mine regarding this topic, since the series - in my opinion - hit the point where fanservice became annoying due to the neglection of important elements. But just because of that I won't drop a series, especially when I think/hope the series can/will get better. Otherwise I have to stop reading a couple of series I'm currently following and I probably won't be able to finish any series. Ever.

No author can please anyone anytime with every single arc.

 

[Junior]

If "there is nothing the series shines with", why are you reading? Basically you are saying that everything is "really bad", the fanservice only makes it worth, and it doesn't seem like the author cares. If Fairy Tail is that bad, why read it, let alone waste time complaining about it? Move on to something you enjoy, rather than read, and complaining about something you don't like. It's your free time, and your entertainment, put it to better use.

I absolutely hate when people make that comment or anything similar to it.

When anyone brings up something they don't like about a manga, there's always someone that'll chime in: "If it's such a big problem, then why don't you go read something else?"

It was my thought that the word "Discussion" meant having conversation over relevant subject matter. There can be "positive" comments in a discussion and, believe it or not, there can be "negative" comments in a discussion. It's not such a wild leap in logic to understand that someone might not like everything you like about a manga. Hell, people may like something in a manga you absolutely despise. But the point of discussion, at least to me, is to come to the table and actually discuss our preferences intelligently.

You don't have to agree but damn..tossing out the "WELL IF YOU DONT LIKE IT STOP READING" comment is more than a little juvenile.

This thread is about fanservice and even though I wasn't a fan of the last chapter, I think it speaks volumes that I will still be reading the next chapter. That means that on some level there's something special about this manga that keeps drawing me back.

Even the guy that said there was nothing that "shines" within this manga will probably be back for another read. Who are you to question why someone reads a manga? The fact that the guy would even bother to come to this thread and take the time to post about a manga he claims lost its luster means (at least to me) that he hasn't given up entirely on this series.

It's just like people on Youtube who get upset when you make a "negative" comment about a music video. They get all butthurt asking why you're even watching the video in the first place as if there's not a "Like" and "Dislike" feature for a reason.

 

[hoeru]

What goes around, comes around. It's a family bathing scene without anyone being groped nor molested. Get over it, there's nothing pervert about it.

If one was offended by being called "retarded" indirectly, then just stop calling others "pervs" indirectly, while acting as if you were actually a fan afterwards while ignoring all the so-called "perv stuff" that came all along with Fairy Tail all the time. Fanservice does not start out with nudity, don't act as if you were unknowing or blind.

 

[Junior]

What goes around, comes around. It's a family bathing scene without anyone being groped nor molested. Get over it, there's nothing pervert about it.

If one was offended by being called "retarded" indirectly, then just stop calling others "pervs" indirectly, while acting as if you were actually a fan afterwards while ignoring all the so-called "perv stuff" that came all along with Fairy Tail all the time. Fanservice does not start out with nudity, don't act as if you were unknowing or blind.

Yeah, not sure if you're talking to me but..

I didn't call anyone a pervert or retarded (indirectly or directly). I've always stated that it was my PERSONAL belief that there was too much going on. I didn't call anyone out on anything.

To be honest, it doesn't even really seem like the ones that were taken back by the fanservice are the ones that are upset. It looks like the people who are actually for the fanservice are the ones raging. Going around insulting people for having a difference of opinion is not cool.

Yeah, just because I didn't like the use of fanservice in that chapter I'm not a fan of the series anymore?

That makes a lot of sense. Great logic there.

People are too damn sensitive.

 

[Kaiten]

It seems that I forgot to mention that I was talking about the arc(s) after the "timeskip" and not about the series as a whole. My post is more a current view of mine regarding this topic, since the series - in my opinion - hit the point where fanservice became annoying due to the neglection of important elements. But just because of that I won't drop a series, especially when I think/hope the series can/will get better. Otherwise I have to stop reading a couple of series I'm currently following and I probably won't be able to finish any series. Ever.

Your previous indicated strong dislike for all fundamental aspects of the series. You never specified what you disliked about the plot, why you disliked the villains, what was wrong with the plot progression, when it seemed like Mashima stopped caring, and how long it has been a problem. From my perspective, reading your post, it seemed like you had come to strongly dislike everything about the series, and that these were long term issues.

No author can please anyone anytime with every single arc.

Every manga should be a consistently pleasing story, from beginning to end. The audience should expect to enjoy every arc, and every chapter, each in it's own way. They should not expect every chapter, and every arc, to be equally satisfying, but they should expect some level of consistent quality every time. It is up to the reader to maintain realistic expectations, and accept the manga for what it is, rather than what they want it to be.

When anyone brings up something they don't like about a manga, there's always someone that'll chime in: "If it's such a big problem, then why don't you go read something else?"

The post I responded to was a strongly worded, broad comment expressing strong dislike for unspecific, fundamental storytelling aspects (plot, plot progression, villain, and so on). The post did not express any specifics; what they did not like about the plot, why the pacing was a problem, what they disliked about the villain, which villain, and what additional aspects of the story "so on" was meant to describe. The post went so far as to imply that it did not even seem like author cared any more. It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone who expressed such broad, general disdain about a manga why they are still reading.

It was my thought that the word "Discussion" meant having conversation over relevant subject matter. There can be "positive" comments in a discussion and, believe it or not, there can be "negative" comments in a discussion. It's not such a wild leap in logic to understand that someone might not like everything you like about a manga. Hell, people may like something in a manga you absolutely despise. But the point of discussion, at least to me, is to come to the table and actually discuss our preferences intelligently.

Be fair. You defend someone's right to post a negative comment, but deny me the right to respond, only to declare that this is a discussion and everyone has a right to express themself? His right to post a negative opinion was not denied. And I had every right to respond to his comment. You might not have liked my response, but I did not ask anything unreasonable. I did not broadly deny anyone the right to criticize Fairy Tail, only responded to specific comments by a single member.

 

[REN KOUEN]

the only negative side to the fan sevice is the degrading of women's dignity especially the main characters

this manga is a shounen and is mainly intended for males, however it does have numerous female fans.

now it is not mashimas responsibility to make everyone happy, however i could see where some female fans may have trouble supporting or identifying with group of female main characters who wear skimpy outfits and get exposed for fanservice

personally i love the fanservice, but i could see where some female fans find it disrespectful

this is a good example of how one could debate against the fanservice without being insulting

it is perfectly possible to criticize a subject constructively without being insulting to other posters or the mangaka

all you have to do is remain respectful to others while posting, its not that difficult

 

[hoeru]

Okay, my accidentally sent post got deleted while editing it. Let's try this again.

Yeah, not sure if you're talking to me but..

No, I did not, and as it seems you are yourself quite "too damn sensitive". My post just happened to appear after yours - if I was to direct anything towards you specifically, I'd either have your post quoted just like this time or used your nick, Junior. You could have figured out if you read more of my posts.

To be honest, it doesn't even really seem like the ones that were taken back by the fanservice are the ones that are upset. It looks like the people who are actually for the fanservice are the ones raging. Going around insulting people for having a difference of opinion is not cool.

As I stated in my earlier posts, it were the bashers that broke forum rules by posting spoilers and one-line posts in the thread that was about the former chapter (354) - just to bash Fairy Tail, and its readers. Those posts were partially if not all of them deleted, but they're still at least in my mind. And they're pretty hard to forget after bashers came up starting a discussion on pervs and how much that chapter 355 contained only fan service but little plot progression - which is just nonsense.

And see, I have been insulted in the Bleach forums FOR REAL. Directly by the word "douchebag" - directly posted as reply to my posts. Something being retarded as a reply to those that reduce Fairy Tail to "zero to none plot, mostly fan service and nakama power-up" and come to FT forums several to most of the times while just dumping their posts into forums - well, just what are they, huh?

There's many ways to criticize. Like you were offended by some nudity, fans are easily offended by such words like those being used. Do you expect them not to bite back at some point on the same discusssion level? For real?

Yeah, just because I didn't like the use of fanservice in that chapter I'm not a fan of the series anymore?

No, and now you're overacting. I said Fairy Tail has always contained fan service many times in this discussion already which now spreads over two threads. I also tried to present you some other insight and different interpretation beyond those scenes being simply "fanservice from the pervert Mashima to pervert FT readers".

And just to add things up: Within the first three volumes, Mashima actually brought up all the basics of fan service. Lucy using her looks in chapter 1, Mirajane posing in a magazine, Lucy bathing in chapter 4, dressing up Lucy as maid, Virgo first panty shot, Lucy accidentally pressing her butt onto Kageyama's face, not to mention Gray stripping barenaked in front of Lucy.

Fanservice has always been part of Fairy Tail manga, and it won't vanish - and this bathing scene was not just fanservice only. It's up to (all of) you whether you face it or not. But don't just easily fall back on feeling insulted for one calling out for "retarded" bashings towards Mashima, FT and its readers just because you can't cope with people talking back.

 

[REN KOUEN]

i dont care if people call me a perv

it is perfectly health and natural for someone to like to look at such attractive characters

 

[hoeru]

i dont care if people call me a perv

But there's others out there that do care. As much or even more than you don't. Moreover, it's a disrespective flamebait to simply paint Mashima's name black by calling him a perv.

 

[SerpentTailedAngel]

(I was trying to avoid posting in this thread but...)

People have called Mashima a perv since Rave Master, where he had another girls hot spring scene and a certain fight with Julia. The accusation even comes up in his Q&A corner. I think if he's been hearing it since then and still adds fanservice, then he can handle it just fine. I also think that the discussion over whether he's a perv or not really comes down to what all you think 'perv' entails, and it doesn't matter if he is or isn't one. Whether Mashima is a perv or only wants to appeal to them, the results are the same. He's had a number of chapters or frames now with naked girls and interesting positions. He's also had a number of moments where Gray is naked, and Sting sleeps shirtless, and all his females are strong characters despite having big boobs, so I don't really care if he does that on occaison. And the much more blatant fanservice has been going on at least since Lucy and Cana shared a bath before the S-Class tournament, so while the fanservice notably worse than it was in chapter one, it's still been going on about... three years?

I don't think it detracts that much. The panels drawn at angles where Lucy's butt is prominent or things like that don't stop the story from playing out. They're just at an angle that makes some people roll their eyes. And the moments like in last week's chapter are meant to be breathers. Without them, there'd be some other content that's meant to be light hearted before a big event.

 

[exacta]

Be fair. You defend someone's right to post a negative comment, but deny me the right to respond, only to declare that this is a discussion and everyone has a right to express themself? His right to post a negative opinion was not denied. And I had every right to respond to his comment. You might not have liked my response, but I did not ask anything unreasonable. I did not broadly deny anyone the right to criticize Fairy Tail, only responded to specific comments by a single member.

You be fair. My comment is negative, but it's aimed at the author, not you. Your comment was aimed at me directly. What bothers me is the fact that an Admin is doing this to be honest. In all honestly, no, I don't care if some random person calls me "retarded" on the internet. Of course not. But if it's someone walking around calling me retarded, and when I look up the forum rules and see it prohibits disrespectful posts, and when I look at who posted those rules it's the same guy who called me retarded, that bothers me a little bit.

I didn't call Mashima pervy to insult him. It's just how I identify that type of fanservice. If anyone can think of a better word for it, please share it with me, seriously. I never thought I would cause this just by calling Mashima pervy. I don't identify with it as a very harsh word. It seems like some people think calling someone pervy = accusing them of being a sex offender.The original post that I made in the chapter discussion was not really supposed to be taken seriously....there were people who called Mashima disgusting or said he shouldn't be allowed to write chapters for that magazine anymore. I just said I thought it was ridiculous people don't consider his fanservice pervy.

I've also said a million times, yes I don't care for this kind of fanservice, but I read Fairy Tail for it's story and I do like a good number of it's characters. And no, every chapter of Fairy Tail was not like last weeks. It started with less fanservice and became more recurrent, but still a typical chapter of Fairy Tail doesn't have as much fanservice as last weeks does. I'm not a basher. I have explained before that I feel that kind of fanservice detracts heavily from the tone that the author is trying to create during serious scenes.

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

(I was trying to avoid posting in this thread but...)
People have called Mashima a perv since Rave Master, where he had another girls hot spring scene and a certain fight with Julia. The accusation even comes up in his Q&A corner. I think if he's been hearing it since then and still adds fanservice, then he can handle it just fine.was in chapter one, it's still been going on about... three years?

^This right here is why I felt comfortable with the way I phrased my comment, and didn't think people would get offended by it. If Mashima's cool with being called that, why can't I say it? I probably won't ever again though after this discussion lol.

 

[syx]

Your previous indicated strong dislike for all fundamental aspects of the series. You never specified what you disliked about the plot, why you disliked the villains, what was wrong with the plot progression, when it seemed like Mashima stopped caring, and how long it has been a problem. From my perspective, reading your post, it seemed like you had come to strongly dislike everything about the series, and that these were long term issues.

And I did so, because otherwise this thread would completely lose its purpose and head to a different direction where all we do is to discuss if certain elements are really that bad or not.

OP asked how the fanservice affects my reading. I made my standpoint pretty clear. There is no need for me to write why I think the plot is bad, fights are boring and villains uninteresting. Those elements recently failed to impress me, hence why the fanservice affects my view of this series negatively. Mashima can do better, he even did. That's why I said fanservice is not a problem as long as you think the major parts of the story are okay. That's all there is regarding this topic. If you want to discuss XYZ, you are free to open a thread.

Every manga should be a consistently pleasing story, from beginning to end. The audience should expect to enjoy every arc, and every chapter, each in it's own way. They should not expect every chapter, and every arc, to be equally satisfying, but they should expect some level of consistent quality every time. It is up to the reader to maintain realistic expectations, and accept the manga for what it is, rather than what they want it to be.

Realistic expectations? Accept the manga for what it is? That sounds like forcing yourself to adapt your expectations regardless of how a series progresses. Which means you intentionally prevent yourself from criticizing - since you can't be disappointed - just for the sake of not criticizing. That's not gonna happen, if it's that what you mean. I have no utopistic expectations. I'm not expecting something from Mashima, he didn't succeed in doing before.

 

[hoeru]

Realistic expectations? Accept the manga for what it is? That sounds like forcing yourself to adapt your expectations regardless of how a series progresses.

This is just downright nonsense, just because there's readers in here that just aren't able to be talked into your position to actually hate either fanservice or Fairy Tail - or to turn this thread into talking how bad Fairy Tail actually is (as you did in you initial post why Kaiten actually reacted to it).

SerpentTailedAngel pointed out (in her subjective point-of-view) that there's more fanservice - and the realistic expectation on Fairy Tail would simply be: There's not going to be less fanservice. And if there's - your words - "nothing that shines with it" ... well, please make that logical step yourself.

So why do you go on reading Fairy Tail, if there's actually LITERALLY NOTHING that makes you actually want to read it?! You still have not answered this final aspect of "how the fanservice produced by Mashima contributes/ affects your reading of the manga."

And the much more blatant fanservice has been going on at least since Lucy and Cana shared a bath before the S-Class tournament

What is more blatant than pushing Lucy's butt on Kageyama's face (at that time)? Lucy being restrained by What could have been more blatant fanservice than Lucy and Juvia's battle or Elsa's battle vs. Ikaruga (at that time)? See, how repetitive this gets? And that is what is "retarded" about that discussion, and why people keep saying that others should stop reading Fairy Tail if it's too much for them to bare: Each time there's a peak - all that happens is a flood of complaint and flaming from those bashers. They already even tried once to go off-topic in this thread going over to talk about how bad FT is in general...

I know you're going to return "Everyone is endorsed to their opinions" - but this just works both ways. One's favorite work is criticized, people could eventually start to talk back. It is just natural to act like that as a fan of this work.

so while the fanservice notably worse than it was in chapter one, it's still been going on about... three years?

"Worse" is your subjective point-of-view. "More" would be much more objective.

Why would anyone care about stuff one can't influence at all anyways, as Mashima is the author - none of us - and just complain for months or even years? Where's the point you (all in general) can't go on reading Fairy Tail if it already is so hard to bare for you (all in general)? Each time you - all people do is complaining, repeatedly. It's all the time the same users posting the same stuff all over and over - all you have to do is actually to read those posts, and it's quite easy to find out what they're up to.

BTT, Mashima is clearly testing out - everytime there's one of those fanservice chapters - how far he may go without losing either too many readers nor support from the magazine, which has a slightly older and broader targeting audience than the just has announced a collaboration this issue, didn't it? IMO, it's great to have such an author who actually dares such things, and there should be more just testing out - not only fanservice.

 

[KingOfNight]

What is more blatant than pushing Lucy's butt on Kageyama's face (at that time)? Lucy being restrained by What could have been more blatant fanservice than Lucy and Juvia's battle or Elsa's battle vs. Ikaruga (at that time)? See, how repetitive this gets? And that is what is "retarded" about that discussion, and why people keep saying that others should stop reading Fairy Tail if it's too much for them to bare: Each time there's a peak - all that happens is a flood of complaint and flaming from those bashers. They already even tried once to go off-topic in this thread going over to talk about how bad FT is in general...

And what, FT is nothing more than cheap fanservice? People who don't like the fanservice are retarded and should just drop FT?

Hopefully I misunderstood you and that's not what you're trying to say. Or at least, not about the people who complain about fanservice.

 

[hoeru]

And what, FT is nothing more than cheap fanservice?

No. That is actually what syx said, especially as "there's nothing that shines with it". So you have to ask that member, as I try to figure out why he's actually reading Fairy Tail. To me it appears there's nothing much left besides "Plot, plot progression, fights, villains and so on" - neither drawing style.

That user just seems to dislike Fairy Tail in general, so why is he in FT forums anyways?

People who don't like the fanservice are retarded and should just drop FT?

No. People who complain all the time for months or even years about same things everytime they come up just keep a retarded discussion alive for the sake of keeping a retarded discussion alive.

Hopefully I misunderstood you and that's not what you're trying to say. Or at least, not about the people who complain about fanservice.

Topic of this chapter is, how much the fan service affects one's reading - which you also have not answered yet. Nor did AshCandyPop, nor did zellogan, nor exacta. Just read those posts - none of them answered the OP and went off-topic by talking about Fairy Tail manga in general.

So again: How does fanservice actually affect you when you read Fairy Tail?

Everyone who does not have a problem with fanservice already did say, they're not affected. So, be my guest and finally tell us something on topic.