Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

[XXGenesis]

All Hatsu abilities if not Most uses More than 1 of the Categories of Nen. Your Suppose to use the closes of categories next to your natural Ability to create an Hatsu with the strongest abilitiies and lowest weakness....

Enhancers- Uses Nen to Strengthen The Body, Objects, Healing. Most applicable with Transmutation & Emission. Less applicable with Manipulation and Conjurers.

Transmutation- Able to change Nen to mimic properties, texture, shape and elements of things...Ex.Gum, Rubber, Fire, Electricity, or change nen into dragon heads, swords..Etc..Again Most applicable with Enhancement & Conjure. Less applicable Emission and Manipulation

Conjurers- Able to create Items with their Nen. Placing circumstances,Oaths, Vows, Random luck,or restrictions, limits you are able to create items that are stronger and have crazy abilities.......This can also be applied to the other Nen abilities in general but are more required for Conjurers and Manipulators...Most applicable with Transmutation and Manipulation..Also These Users have a chance to become Specialization Nen users

Emitters- To be able to extend your Nen beyond your body, experts can leave their Nen for prolonged periods of time. Most Applicable with Enhancement and Manipulation.

Manipulation- Able to control Things with your Nen. Ex. Organisms, Machines, Objects...Same as Conjurers Limits, Deals, Circumstances, Oaths and Vows are placed to allow More or Better control over these things...Most Applicable with Emitters and Conjurers.....Like Conjurers They have a chance of becoming Specialization Users.

Specialization- Abilities that fall outside any of the 5 categories. Ex.Usage of All Nen to 100%, Fortune Telling, Ability to Steal others Hatsu ability. Technique's that have requirements but give out an extraordinary ability in return.

Gon is an Enhancer. He Enhances his Fist Using Ko focusing all his aura into his fist for an Super Punch. He also uses Emission to shoot his Aura off as a sphere And to extend his aura up from his finger changing the texture using transformation to be able to cut something.

Razor is an emitter. He Emits his aura to create clones to play volleyball and strengthens his clones and Aura with Enchantment. He also Controls them through manipulation Nen...............Both Gon and Razor use their Hatsu abilities employing more than 1 category of Nen and they are both the closes to their natural selection of Nen.

Hisoka an Transmutation user turns his aura into Bungee Gum. He can make it stick to things like gum, resilient like rubber and can make it extract and sling it around like a rubber band. He can use emission at 60% to leave his Nen around in it's transformed to state to catch unsuspected prey, use in a manner of tricks n skills or slingshot himself around like he did agasin't Gotoh.....Also He can strengthen it with Enhancement 80% in case somebody tries to break it....He also can emit his nen again to transmutate something to his liking,,fake skin,text.

Bomber- Perfect example here, he uses both Transmutation and Emission for his Bombs. He turns his Nen into explosive properties of a bomb and can place this on you through Emission having his Bomb Nen stick to you and blow you up...His basic form of this is simply blowing off Gon's hand and damaging his wrist with his Nen. Or the Bomb he plants on Ppl and threaten's to blow them up.

The advance Applications of the basic 4 Nen principles( Ren,Ten,Zetsu and Hatsu) Also can be traced back to Nen categories..As an Emitter would be great at En while an Conjurer wouldn't be as so much....Or Shu which is strengthening an object if your an Enhancer you would excel at this while Manipulators and Conjurers wouldn't or simply wouldn't be as strong or durable compared to an Enhancer, Emitter or Transmutation.

As you see Hatsu abilities consist of more than 1 category and the better the ability the closer you stay to ya point of origin. So to become a pro Nen user it takes Years and Years only Prodigies and Genius learn these abilities and application within short amounts of time. Goes to show you how scary some ppl are in the HXH World. Killua and Gon have a long way to go as they just learnt Hatsu and advance nen usage...Killua I would say is off to a good start.

 

[tupadre97]

A theory to determine levels and efficiency in HxH and how they determine how powerful a nen user is according to Kurapika's example

In order for this theory to work the level is defined as a way to determine how strong the dmg or attack power or aura power in general of the hatsu are for that person. Idk the exact formula Togashi uses to define how his "levels" correspond with attack power of a hatsu but we'll just say the level:dmg/overall power of hatsu ratio is 1:100. Also the "force and accuracy" will be treated as another term for efficiency. For this example we'll start off his with Gon...

So for this theory we'll say Gon's Rock dmg is 2000 which makes him a level 20 enhancer. It also costs 2000 AP so we'll say he is a level 20 enhancer with 100% efficiency. As for his Paper its dmg is 500 and it costs 4000 AP so Gon is a level 5 emitter with 12.5% efficiency. Now from this standpoint Gon should be able to work on 2 different ways to train his Paper, that would be either training the level to be higher (the dmg or attack power) or its efficiency to be higher. Now it obviously makes more sense to train the efficiency so he doesn't waste nen so lets say he trains for how ever long it takes to get his Paper to max efficiency which is 80%. Now it only costs 625 AP to do 500 dmg. Now Gon is a level 5 emitter with 80% (max) efficiency. At this point in Gon's training he can now train the level (or power) of this move to become stronger while keeping its efficiency (I have no idea how they would go about that, thats for Togashi to decide).

So lets say Gon has sucessfully trained his Paper to be a level 20 attack with 80% (max possible efficiency bcuz he is an enhancer). That means that the dmg of his Paper is 2000 but the cost of his attack is 2500. Now why is that? Thats bcuz the max efficiency for him as an emitter is 80% and 80% of 2500=2000 (the dmg or attack power). The way this is calculated is as follows; First the variables: L=dmg/overall power, C=AP consumed for hatsu/the "cost" for a hatsu, E=efficiency. The equations used are as follows: L/C=E or C*E=L or L/E=C.

What this theory means:
Now what I'm trying to say with this theory is that just because a nen user is in a different category as another nen user does not mean they can't use techniques in the others category stronger than them. Consider the examples below.

According to this theory it is possible for Gon to be able to use Paper and make it as strong as his Rock but in order for him to make his Paper as strong as Rock (i.e. give it 2000 dmg) he must use at least 2500 AP because his max efficiency is at 80% or more depending on how good/bad his efficiency is. Also since right now his paper is only worth 500 dmg while the cost is 4000 AP that shows that the less efficient u are with a technique the more aura it will cost you and it will begin to lose power. It may or may not be possible to train ur dmg for an attack to be higher unless u raise the efficiency first but for the purpose of this theory we will say it is. So if Gon only added more nen into it to increase its dmg without training for efficiency then at 2000 dmg it would cost a whopping 16000 AP to produce one Paper attack. This shows that it is far more effective to train your efficiency first before you work on attack power.

Now what I wanted to show with this example is that just because your efficiency is naturally lower than another user it doesn't mean your attack has to be weaker than theirs it just means it costs more AP to produce an even attack so its is less effiecient. Do you get what I'm saying? So if Gon fought another emitter that could use Paper at level 15 (1500 dmg) 100% efficiency he could overpower that other persons Paper even though they are naturally more efficient than him. This shows that it is really level or the power of your attacks/nen that really determine how strong you are and not your hatsu type. But remember that level or strength doesn't always doesn't mean an auto win unless you have efficiency. Otherwise you will just waste all of your nen before you can finish off your opponent or you won't be able to make strong enough attacks and will have an irregular or sporadic dmg:cost ratio like with Gon's Paper attack.

So according to this theory u can have a conjurer that can have a stronger emission attack than an emitter or a specialist who is better at enhancement than an enhancer. But it is not likely because it is harder to train in another category if you have low efficiency and level in another category and also it usually doesn't fit ones personality to use an opposite category. So its not likely that Kurapika will be able to use an emission attack better than and emitter unless he devotes his time into training in emission, which wouldn't really make sense to him because he wants to focus on his conjuring instead because it is his most efficient category. Even in Emperor time with 100% efficiency in emission it won't really matter unless he trains the level (dmg) to be higher to be used effectively in battle, but he wont because he doesn't want to. Now if somebody wants to be an emitter but is a conjurer instead they can still train in emission but it will only be capped at 40%. It will also be very had to train as an emitter because it is the opposite category. If the person successfully trains in emission and maxes out at 40% and there level is high enough and strong enough they may even be able to rival the most powerful emitters even tho they are a conjurer. It is extremely unlikely and Togashi probably wouldn't do it anyway but it is still possible under the rules of nen.

This would explain why the chimera ants were so powerful and were able to develop such strong hatsu in different categories. Its because their nen was so powerful and they learned to be efficient so quickly that they were able to become so strong in such and incredibly short period of time and create complex hatsu in different categories. Like how Pitou could use Doctor Blithe (which is enhancement, while Pitou is a specialist). Or how Netero was able to conjure (they say it is a conjured statue) the bodhisattva and make it so powerful even tho he was only at 60% efficiency. It was because they were at max efficiency and had such a high level of power and nen that they were able to use those techniques.

Also there should be no cap for nen except for how strong the author wants people to be and ko and the other basic and advanced techniques are not enhancement. Anybody in any category can use and excel in them. Enhancers use their nen to enhance either themselves or other things. So if Gon uses Rock he is really using nen to enhance his fist and make it stronger, which consequently produces more nen in his fist to make the attack even more stronger thats why his attack is so deadly and thats why enhancers are regarded as the strongest fighters in the nen world. Its because they use their nen to enhance their bodies to make them physically stronger which consequently produces more nen making them even more stronger. That still doesn't mean that they are the strongest people in the world. Remember since enhancement is a hatsu type anyone can use enhancement and if they reach peak efficiency and obtain a higher power level of nen they can become stronger than other enhancers although it is more likely that and enhancer will be stronger because that is their native category and have 100% efficiency.

Well, I think there is a relation between the percentages and the levels but different as you both stated and why I step aside in the discussion:
I think that if you're 100% Materialization means that when you are level 10 on training you'll be level 10 on Materialization (Obviously) but if you have level 10 on Transformation you'll be as a Transformation user in level 8.

...Sure, your school will be always on top but that doesn't mean it will be trained when you train another schools or using a system of conditions.

Because I do seriously believe that training is not something that strict and with rules and pledges you can obtain efficiency and mastery of something without all the square math involved. Reason why there are so many different techniques and not everyone is applying Kou to a punch.

No the level system could never work like that. The reason why is because that limits the full potential of a character and basically eliminates any reason to work in other schools. If someone is gonna be stronger than you in a school no matter how powerful your nen then what would be the point of training in other nen? This would also suggest that ppl like Netero and Meruem can only be the strongest in their individual types but thats simply not the case. If so then how could Netero emit/conjure a statue as powerful as the bodhisattva or how can Pitou use Doctor Blithe? If level is based solely on efficiency and not power then none of those techniques would be possible or there would be people who have nowhere near as much MOP as them but with better techniques. Level has to be based on the power output of a nen user (AOP, POP, MOP) and not the efficiency or else nothing would make sense. Not to mention it would extremely limit the authors creativity for the power levels of the story.

 

[Demonspeed]

I know that's silly and that there not even one in a million chance that it would happen but what would happen if:

-Kurapika uses Chain Jail on an innocent and is convinced that he is a Spider?
-Kurapika uses randomly Chain Jail on a Spider without knowing he is one? (For example, would have CJ worked if he hadn't seen Uvo's tattoo?)

 

[KingOfNight]

He would still die. This is the reason he didn't want the Spiders to know about it. They could easily use it against him.

 

[Demonspeed]

Even in scenario 2?

 

[KingOfNight]

I would say, yes. He was prepared to kill only the Spiders, so I don't think it's something to simply make a mistake about.

 

[mousiehamster]

I agree that it would probably have killed him since the pledge is something deeply personal that he made to and with himself.

Now what would happen if he used it on Hisoka who he thought was a Spider? We know that Kurapica's judgement chain didn't frag Kuroro when he spoke to Hisoka once he knew he was a fake Spider (or perhaps the removal of the tatoo could be considered quitting - i don't know). I think it makes sense for Kurapica's nen to be otherwise omniscient so long as the conditions are not knowingly breached by Kurapica himself, whether he is factually correct or not.

 

[Demonspeed]

If he is convinced someone is a Spider( he saw a tatoo, everything corresponds) but is not, he shouldn't die IMO, unless his Nen is living.

 

[KingOfNight]

Can't be helped. That's how dangerous these risks are. And this is why it's so strong.

 

[mousiehamster]

It's actually not quite as dangerous as you make it out to be. Imagine if Kurapica's powers couldn't be used AT ALL against non-spiders. Kurapica's master remarked that such a restriction would be pretty flimsy but in effect it's no different from the restriction as it is. In fact, its worse because it would actually preclude Kurapica from using his powers entirely.

imo the restrictions don't adequately justify his power and emperor time sure as hell shouldn't have given him the capability of tanking uvo's punches.

 

[KingOfNight]

I don't get what you mean?

 

[mousiehamster]

Kurapica's master remarked that the restriction of limiting chain jail's use to spiders only is pretty weak. The restriction that Kurapica came up with is that if he used chain jail on anyone other than a Spider, he would die. But the two are pretty much the same thing, except the former restriction is arguably even stricter because it literally stops him from using chain jail on anyone full stop whereas the current incarnation of chain jail allows him to use it on non-spiders - it just kills him if he chooses to do so.

 

[KingOfNight]

They aren't two separate oaths, they're the same actually. When his master told him it was weak, he told him that that was merely the pre-condition. The pledge itself is to die when used on anyone else.

 

[mousiehamster]

Yes but the pledge could equally have been: the ability fails to activate against non-spiders and it would have been just as restrictive if not more.

 

[tupadre97]

I know that's silly and that there not even one in a million chance that it would happen but what would happen if:

-Kurapika uses Chain Jail on an innocent and is convinced that he is a Spider?
-Kurapika uses randomly Chain Jail on a Spider without knowing he is one? (For example, would have CJ worked if he hadn't seen Uvo's tattoo?)

Even if he was convinced he was one he would probably still die bcuz they really weren't (like if he used it on Hisoka even though he was just a fake spider, he'd probably still die). Either that or it just won't stop their nen and then he will realize they aren't a spider and his judgement chain around his heart would crush it.

If he would randomly do it for some reason and it turns out they are he'd be ok.
The only reason he would die from someone not being a spider is bcuz of his conviction to die if he uses chain jail on someone who isn't a spider. If he lives after chain jailing someone who isn't a spider then that means his conviction wasn't really strong enough and chain jail would cease to work on anybody bcuz he doesn't truly believe in the condition that makes it work in the first place. Really the only way he'd die if he didn't know you were a spider were if he didn't know or ask and couldn't find out. Which would never happen bcuz he has the judgement chain to force you into to tellling him if you're a spider or not. Anyway the spiders won't hide themselves from him anyway so what does it matter.

 

[Demonspeed]

Since it's really hard to transmute his aura into electricity how much time do you think it would take to transmute his aura into light? Do you think there is someone who can do it?

 

[Uriel]

Since it's really hard to transmute his aura into electricity how much time do you think it would take to transmute his aura into light? Do you think there is someone who can do it?

Plot overall makes that jump. I guess it's not about talent, but some great background to explain it. After all, Light is just a form of wave energy and not that different from electricity.

 

[tupadre97]

Since it's really hard to transmute his aura into electricity how much time do you think it would take to transmute his aura into light? Do you think there is someone who can do it?

Spoiler

Meruem did it pretty easily. How he did it we have not a clue. I'm guessing that he was so overpowered in his post-nuke form he could create hatsu as difficult as making light protons which would probably take decades or even longer in mere seconds. It just shows that having a large amount of nen makes it easier to make hatsu. Which would explain why the chimera ants were so strong.

 

[Demonspeed]

^ Yes but Meruem is not comparable to the others. And he could use it only to read minds and to move fast while activating his En. Being able to use light attacks would be really OP.

 

[Phantron]

It depends on what you do with the light.

If you need to illuminate an area that's easy. If you want to shoot laser beams at people, that's probably impossible.