Discussion Mihawk's Power Level

kkck

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To be honest I don't think a yonko necessarily has to be as strong as WB or even the admirals. They should be able to put up a fight but the yonko themselves are huge threats for reasons entirely different of their strength. Strength is without a doubt important however the issue here is not just that, what makes a yonko is the number of subordinates and resources they manage. For all we know there could be a number of people capable of matching the yonko or admirals out there who simply have not yet been able to do something like gathering a proper crew. Perhaps the case can be made that doflamingo is roughly in this boat. He could be an actual match to an admiral or even a yonko but does not have the subordinates to actually make a stand against them. Even if he does have the strength of a yonko it does appear the strength of his crew is limited to some extent. Take vergo, wasn't he one of doflamingo's most important subordinates? Wasn't law originally meant to take the heard position in doflamingo's crew? Doflamingo was easily able to foderize law who was stronger than vergo and sanji who even injured was able to go toe to toe with vergo (although neither got to using their full power). Can you imagine doflamingo attempting to take on the yonko if his top 3 subordinates are around comparable to vergo in terms of strength? Franky is supposedly fighting doflamingo's main combat squad... Assuming they match franky they would at most have ok strength for regular crewmembers in the new world. They would still be a far cry from WB's commanders or shank's main crewmembers. The situation is specially sad if we consider they are not even a new crew, they have been around for quite some time.

Seeing things this way perhaps the case can be made that within the context of what he wanted to achieve doflamingo is actually a failed pirate. He has insane strength himself, perhaps he could even match an admiral but 10 years of being in the grand line did not allow him to become what he wanted, the PK (at least he seems to be aiming for that so far). The arc is remarkably similar to alabasta in this regard with the main villain being a failure even if he had a high position. So seeing doflamingo failed to become a gold medalist on his own he would have turned to more underhanded methods even by pirate standards. He got control of the underworld and sells stuff for everyone however he is still not a match for the yonko or the big players around. He probably aims to use his influence to take over a yonko at least however his method, while smart, is still an indication that he is not good enough to do it the proper way so to speak. Within the context of the series the PK has to be someone with the gigantic lead balls necessary to take on the world and come out on top while simultaneously not giving a damn. My theory is that doflamingo plans on using smiles and his power to take control over the people who eat the fruits however if we consider my previous point having to resort to that means he already failed in the grand scheme of things.
 

Schabrak

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Nope, he was sure. He just wanted to see how much stronger WB was. Then Jozu showed up and stopped his test, making it very clear that he was a long way from the top.
How does it make it clear that he's a "long way" from the top!? He can't be that far away being the most renowned swordfighter of the world and earlier rival to Shanks who was similarly strong as Whitebeard. Just wanted to point out that your shouldn't use such exaggeration, when it's obvious that the statement is completely wrong when you think it through for ten seconds.
 

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Its simple for me

Mihawk is the worlds most powerfull swordsman, stated by oda himself, the writer of this manga.
Shanks is a swordsman, since he doesnt have the title, therefor loses by default in a 1 on 1 match, when both go all out.

Since whitebeards death, he might very well be the strongest person in OP currently.
Is there a definite proof that Mihawk is the most powerful swordsman or are you basing it on what the characters themselves said? Even though Shanks isn't the best swordsman it doesn't mean he'll lose if both go all out if he has other skills.
 

M3J

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That doesn't work for me, that's just a title. Either way, just because Mihawk might be the best swordsman doesn't necessarily mean he can beat Shanks. This isn't Dragon Ball Z.
 

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That doesn't work for me, that's just a title. Either way, just because Mihawk might be the best swordsman doesn't necessarily mean he can beat Shanks.
He can beat shanks, simply because shanks isnt the strongest swordsman in the world, unlike mihawk.
 

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Oh stop it already! It's almost like you had anything of worth past the chapter 50 description block, a info 15+ years old already.
 

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Not something I'd necessarily disagree with.


How does it make it clear that he's a "long way" from the top!? He can't be that far away being the most renowned swordfighter of the world and earlier rival to Shanks who was similarly strong as Whitebeard. Just wanted to point out that your shouldn't use such exaggeration, when it's obvious that the statement is completely wrong when you think it through for ten seconds.
Simply being Shanks earlier rival doesn't mean that he was close to Whitebeard in ability or power. WB showed that he was superior to everyone involved, most by a sizeable margin, at that point, including Akainu. If it weren't for Squardo's betrayal, WB would have been even more primed for action.
 

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Schabrak

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It doesn't change the words of Mihawk not wanting to fight a one-armed Shanks. Dracule disqualified him as a rival in swordmanship, that doesn't mean that a full blown fight with all their abilities would automatically end in Hawekeye's favour, it means that Shanks might not be able to use 100% of his two potential as a swordsman without his main sword hand.

Simply being Shanks earlier rival doesn't mean that he was close to Whitebeard in ability or power. WB showed that he was superior to everyone involved, most by a sizeable margin, at that point, including Akainu. If it weren't for Squardo's betrayal, WB would have been even more primed for action.
That's not at all what I was pointing out with my post, don't move the goal post please. It's about your "long way" comment, you may try defend it again with a reasonable explanation.
 
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Impossibility

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That's not at all what I was pointing out with my post, don't move the goal post please. It's about your "long way" comment, you may try defend it again with a reasonable explanation.
I was defending that, which is why I said 'sizeable margin'. I elucidated on why I thought so. The goalposts aren't moved, WB is far more powerful than Mihawk, by both reputation and feats. Your justification that he was somewhere in the ballpark is purely that he was once rival to Shanks. There isn't anything to suggest that Mihawk was operating on the same level as WB, in fact, there's more to support that he was a considerable distance from WB in terms of strength and power.
 

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What feats besides beside being known for being the strongest man with the strongest devil fruit ability? What is there to support a "considerable" distance? I'm waiting. What about Shanks seeing Mihawk as his equal, what about Mihawk leaving the war without a single scratch, what about Mihawk being feared by everyone but the highest tier characters, what about him being Zoro's final goal, what about Mihawk following Silver's steps as a partner to the Pirate King?

In fact, there are several more arguments to be made for Mihawk being an end game character like the Yonkou than him being far away from WB/Shanks/Kaidou or Big Mom.

Or are you trying to tell me that Shanks was far apart from Whitebeard too? Well, that would be nothing but a creation of your fantasy.
 
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Kaiten

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There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to prove that Mihawk is a strong character. There is nothing that proves how strong. Comparing him to Yonkou, at this point in the series, is more than a little premature. Mihawk has not had a starring role in any arc yet, he has only been seen briefly, as a supporting character. It is too soon to anoint him as strong as the Yonkou, pirates who divided the New World between themselves. I am willing to believe he is comparable in strength to Doflamingo, based on his actions during the Baratie and Marineford Arcs. He could be stronger than Doflamingo, I just have not seen enough of him to form an opinion.
 
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Schabrak

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It is too soon to anoint him as strong as the Yonkou, pirates who divided the New World between themselves.
Yonkou are captains with crews equal in strength to admirals, they have a way of crontrolling big territories with subordinates and subservant countries/pirate crews, a lone pirate like Mihawk does not.

lol I know what the Yonkou are.
Just pointed out the aimless argument, which had little to do with individual power.
 
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Kaiten

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Mihawk is a character we know very little about. We know he is "The World's Strongest Swordsman", we know he is a Shichibukai, we know he is a former rival of Shanks, we know that he and Shanks are on good terms. We do not know his former bounty. We don't know his backstory. We don't know why, or how, he joined the Shichibukai. I find it hard to speak in definitives about such an enigmatic characters. I agree he is very strong. I am not willing to decide how strong until there are fewer mysteries about this character.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

Yonkou are captains with crews equal in strength to admirals, they have a way of crontroling big territories with subordinates and subservant countries/pirate crews, a lone pirate like Mihawk does not.
lol I know what the Yonkou are.
 

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He can beat shanks, simply because shanks isnt the strongest swordsman in the world, unlike mihawk.
Can you please provide proof? Because that logic is very faulty. If you're talking about pure swordsman fighting, you could be right. However, if it's fighting overall, Shanks seems to have the edge here since he can fight in different ways. It's similar to how Sanji despite using legs to fight can use knives and his hands to fight when needed, so even if he and someone else were even in leg karate, Sanji can have the edge and win because he's more versatile.

Your conclusion is far too premature is all I'm saying. Maybe Mihawk can beat Shanks, maybe he can't. Maybe he didn't want to fight Shanks anymore because Shanks as a swordsman wouldn't be the challenge he used to be, even though overall, Shanks could probably beat Mihawk. All we know is that Mihawk is scary powerful, he was able to beat Zoro almost effortlessly (which almost no one has been able to do so far, even when Zoro was hurt and exhausted) and push Luffy away from his brother with little problem. All we can judge here is that Mihawk is very powerful, on a high tier and Zoro's final or second to final boss, while despite having one arm, Shanks became a respected Yonkou who was able to stop Akainu with one arm and issued a challenge without any fear or hesitation to the Marines and Blackbeard crew.
 

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What feats besides beside being known for being the strongest man with the strongest devil fruit ability?
That is a reference to his reputation. His feats would be composed of everything that happened during the war, even after being betrayed by Squardo.

What is there to support a "considerable" distance? I'm waiting.
Above.

What about Shanks seeing Mihawk as his equal, what about Mihawk leaving the war without a single scratch, what about Mihawk being feared by everyone but the highest tier characters, what about him being Zoro's final goal, what about Mihawk following Silver's steps as a partner to the Pirate King?
Shanks relationship with Mihawk is what it is, I don't see that as much of an indicator. Mihawk left the war unscathed because he didn't get involved with any of the monsters around for any considerable amount of time, Vista and later Croc are the only two people of note that he engaged, and the battle against Croc isn't shown. Mihawk's attack against Jozu and his duel with Vista that stood as a draw before being interrupted are far better indicator of his abilities, mainly because his abilities are shown; quite frankly they are the only time we've seen his abilities on display against individuals of notable power and ability. If his ability is somewhat comparable to Vista's, or marginally superior, I don't think it's a stretch to say he's a ways away from WB, very few would likely object if I laid the claim that Vista was a long way from WB in power. Being Zoro's final goal doesn't mean he was near to WB in power, and Zoro's goal is to defeat him, be better than he is. I'm not sure what the reference to Silver was about.

In fact, there are several more arguments to be made for Mihawk being an end game character like the Yonkou than him being far away from WB/Shanks/Kaidou or Big Mom.
And these arguments and their relevance to his ability compared to WB's during the war are?

Or are you trying to tell me that Shanks was far apart from Whitebeard too? Well, that would be nothing but a creation of your fantasy.
I wouldn't be able to give many specifics on how Shanks compares to WB, although I believe him to be inferior, by how much, I don't know. And I also don't know precise difference in ability between Shanks and Mihawk. What the manga did provide was a clear comparison of Mihawk's ability to a WB commander, or two of them in particular, through different means. And those are the only clear comparisons in ability that we've seen.
 
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Schabrak

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Nobody is doubting Newgate to have been the ultimate #1 while he was alive. It's just that Shanks was really comparable and therefore Mihawk was too. I will reply to the rest some time later.
 
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