Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Txapeldun]

You forgot one thing. The characters from Bakuman are mangakas; they get the poll result even earlier than the readers.

Like did you expect the mangakas know their result as same time as the regular readers?

Then the whole "We take X weeks because we must count the votes" thing gets useless.
Nice try.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Then the whole "We take X weeks because we must count the votes" thing gets useless.
Nice try.

Is that means you expect the mangakas to know their ranking as same time as us?

 

[jace93]

Then the whole "We take X weeks because we must count the votes" thing gets useless.
Nice try.

but you aren't considering the time needed for editing, printing and shipping... if you take that they need more or less 1-2 week to count the votes, 1 week for the actual chapter to be made, more time for editing, editing printing and shipping, and then 1 week in the store before the sales start then 8 weeks doesn't seem an unreasonable number...

on an unrelated note is it normal that there are so many succesfull series in jump? It's not been long since i started to follow toc placements, but I remember that there were always 1-2 series that had a life span of 6 months 1 tear and that acted as cushion to more affirmed series, but right now every series that started anew has been axed after 18 chapter and apart from the new series all the other series are strong seller and pretty popular...

 

[Txapeldun]

Is that means you expect the mangakas to know their ranking as same time as us?

That means they know before us, but not the week after it's published. It would be nearly impossible, if we are taking in count the counting of the votes. (Which is also mere speculation btw)
But since it does not take my sleep away (yet), I actually don't care when they get to know it.

 

[Kaizou 10]

on an unrelated note is it normal that there are so many succesfull series in jump?

Well, they have so many successful series because it is JUMP. Jump able to produce hit series quickly than the other magazines.

---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 PM ----------

Nonetheless, Bakuman did imply that there's an 8 week lapse, since Hokuto no Ken's first rating was the best ever and it got the first position in the TOC.

Can you provide the picture with that?

Plus, it sounds kind of contradiction. You said don't use Bakuman as example, but you are also using Bakuman as example to explain your argument.

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

That means they know before us, but not the week after it's published. It would be nearly impossible, if we are taking in count the counting of the votes. (Which is also mere speculation btw)
But since it does not take my sleep away (yet), I actually don't care when they get to know it.

If your argument is also speculation, then your argument wouldn't be strong either. As far as right now, the argument about "there is 8 weeks rule" is more stronger who oppose that.

If you want to argue against, then you need more concrete proof then just your speculation.

 

[UHU]

but that happens also to many popular series... es shokugeki no souma in his last week as uncharted (if you go by the eight weeks rule) was in 10, and had stayed more or less around that position for the previous 4-5 week, essentially at the same level of hungry joker... but passed the magical number of 8 issue of serialization shokugeki no soma jumped in the top 5 and stayed there for most of the time until now, hungry joker plummeted to the last places and got axed pretty quicly...

Sure. And Assassination Classroom also jumped in the top 5 and stayed there with its 5th chapter. My point is: Jump's editors do whatever they want. They got surveys' results the earliest, and it starts to influence the TOC when they want it. That's why I said there is no rule, that the baseline is we don't know how things are really made there.

It sounds like you didn't read Nayrael's post after that one.

The one on how it's better to stick with things that are convenient to talk about, even if it tends to superstition?


By the way, I was here to talk about things getting really bad for Bleach, and forgot to mention this:

Someone in 2ch posted a rather interesting chart so I thought I'd share it with you guys, it's about Jump series that had an anime and ended after 2000, it shows how long did it take them after their anime ended for the manga to end (in WSJ, doesn't matter if they went to another mag later on, and I think this only considers TV anime and the last season of it if it had multiple)

Spoiler

Prince of Tennis - 3 years
Katekyo Hitman Reborn - 2 years 2 months
Beelzebub - 2 years
Shaman King - 1 year 11 months
Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo - 1 year 9 months
Eyeshield 21 - 1 year 3 months
Majin Tantei Nogami Neuro - 1 year 1 month
To LOVE-Ru - 1 year
D.Gray-man - 11 months
Houshin Engi - 11 months
Sket Dance - 10 months
Hanasaka Tenshi Tenten-kun - 9 months
Nurarihyon no Mago - 6 months
Medaka Box - 4 months
Ichigo 100% - 1.5 months
Hikaru no Go - 1 month

Whistle - Cancelled while the anime was airing
Yu-Gi-Oh!/Bakuman - Finished while the anime was airing
Death Note/Black Cat/Hatsukoi Limited/Busou Renkin - Animated after ending

Ongoing manga and the date their last TV anime ended
Kochikame - December 2004
Gintama - March 2010
Bleach - March 2012
Toriko - March 2014

Gintama's last TV anime ended in march 2013, but this is interesting. Bleach is sure considerably weaker now that its anime has ended.

 

[kewl0210]

If your argument is also speculation, then your argument wouldn't be strong either. As far as right now, the argument about "there is 8 weeks rule" is more stronger who oppose that.

If you want to argue against, then you need more concrete proof then just your speculation.

They also say it got the top rank in its first chapter right here:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/北斗の拳#.....E9.80.A3.E8.BC.89.E3.81.AE.E7.B5.8C.E7.B7.AF

Well, it says it originally ran as a one shot and a second one shot and both got the top spots. Then when it ran in Jump it was "popular before it even started and saved a Jump that was in a downturn".

 

[SharkBait]

Sure. And Assassination Classroom also jump in the top 5 and stayed there with its 5th chapter. My point is: Jump's editors do whatever they want. They got surveys' results the earliest, and it starts to influence the TOC when they want it. That's why I said there is no rule, that the baseline is we don't know how things are really made there.

I think that seems to be the more reasonable thing (also dont know why people are suggesting it would take a long period of time to generate survey results, they only read a sample of them after all). I cant think of any logical reasoning why theyd put some new series down near the back of the magazine unless it truly was just not that well received by the populace.

 

[Kaizou 10]

They also say it got the top rank in its first chapter right here:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/北斗の拳#.....E9.80.A3.E8.BC.89.E3.81.AE.E7.B5.8C.E7.B7.AF

Yeah, I know that. But, how that relates to proof the existence of 8 weeks rule?

 

[kewl0210]

I think it's based on this site:
http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~starman/index.htm
HnK starts issue 41 of 1983. And 8 weeks later it has the cover (issue 49). I think that's the idea.

 

[Txapeldun]

but you aren't considering the time needed for editing, printing and shipping... if you take that they need more or less 1-2 week to count the votes, 1 week for the actual chapter to be made, more time for editing, editing printing and shipping, and then 1 week in the store before the sales start then 8 weeks doesn't seem an unreasonable number...

When I said that the argument about counting the votes gets useless, I was referring to the hypothetical case in which Kaizou 10's point was the correct one. (Which is that the mangakas in Bakuman get to know the results in one week. Which is completely impossible according to everything you said before.)

Can you provide the picture with that?

By the way, do you remember if the Hokuto no Ken ranking was mentioned in Bakuman?
(I may be wrong on that one, my memory is not that great.)

Plus, it sounds kind of contradiction. You said don't use Bakuman as example, but you are also using Bakuman as example to explain your argument.

I didn’t use it as an argument. I used to say that we are extracting way too much of a fiction.
I said that the only REAL, and I said REAL proof about the 8 weeks rule was in Hokuto no Ken’s first rating WHICH I THOUGH was explained in Bakuman.
If Maxy takes the time to read this conversation, he should prove me right or wrong with the Hokuto thing.

If your argument is also speculation, then your argument wouldn't be strong either. As far as right now, the argument about "there is 8 weeks rule" is more stronger who oppose that.
If you want to argue against, then you need more concrete proof then just your speculation.

None of us have no proof about whether is 8 or 7 or 9. Further discussion is pointless, and I’m not willing to cooperate in this waste of time.


TL;DR: Since we're never going to agree, let's change the topic.

 

[Kaizou 10]

I think it's based on this site:
http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~starman/index.htm
HnK starts issue 41 of 1983. And 8 weeks later it has the cover (issue 49). I think that's the idea.

Is that means that is a concrete evidence for the existence of 8 weeks rule?

---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

None of us have no proof about whether is 8 or 7 or 9. Further discussion is pointless, and I’m not willing to cooperate in this waste of time.

It looks like Kewl0210 provide for proof for the 8 weeks rule.

 

[Txapeldun]

It looks like Kewl0210 provide for proof for the 8 weeks rule.

(SIGH)
Which I also stated in my previous post.
Do you even read the complete posts?
The only thing I said that was wrong was that that proof could be found in Bakuman.

Plus, that was a long time ago. Things could have changed. Technologies ain't the same in the late eighties and now.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Plus, that was a long time ago. Things could have changed. Technologies ain't the same in the late eighties and now.

Well, then you should provide example for that? As of now, you just keep making speculation without any supports.

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------

Also, based on your argument, it sounds like you argument is based on the editors took 8 weeks to count the votes; I don't think that's really good idea to argue anything.

 

[Josef]

Calling bleach the final arc seems to just have made it keep getting put in a bad spot in the magazine, its like folks just dont care about it anymore. Though maybe its just old age. I wonder if the same would happen to One Piece years from now. Naruto seems impervious to low rank. And if we add Toriko to this action senior manga, well it seems like it may be following in Bleachs footsteps.

It depends on where those manga will be at their end, mind you One Piece has been going on further than Bleach and has always kept its good spot. Granted One Piece is somewhere in the middle of it's series but it all depends if the series still provides for it's fans. I think Bleach is repeating itself, it was good - ONCE. Reusing of it's themes is probably boring most of it's fans.^^

 

[perroloco]

Why the joint cover? I thought that was exclusive to Double issues or am I mistaken? :-/
Also, the Ichigo used is the old bankai outfit.

Toriko has been dropping for the past few weeks. 8th this week.

Also, why do I get the feeling that IR and iShoujo are headed for the bottom?

I would guess they did this for the J-stars Victory vs game that is gonna get released soon.

 

[Gurido]

Has Tokyo Wonder Boys been translated?

 

[Kaizou 10]

This Week's Jump Comic Sales:

01. One Piece #73 (2,075,407 / 2,076,189)
02. Naruto #68 (741,593 / 742,232)
04. Kuroko no Basket #26 (482,045 / 482,232)
05. Ansatsu Kyoushitsu #8 (409,194)
06. Bleach #62 (387,345 / 387,662)
07. Toriko #29 (229,095)
08. Nisekoi #11 (198,152)
09. Shin Tennis no Oujisama #12 (157,617)
13. Yu☆Gi☆Oh 5D's #7 (70,449)
18. Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Kouen-mae Hashutsujo #189 (42,253)
33. One Piece #72 (22,952 / 2,792,432)
34. 1/11 Juuichi Bun no Ichi #8 (22,490)

 

[SharkBait]

Assuming underestimations are going on, Nisekoi getting that ~200K debut sales is good growth for it.

Nisekoi 8 128K
Nisekoi 9 140K (73 + 67,2wk)
Nisekoi 10 182K (93 + 88, 2wk)
Nisekoi 11 198K

 

[Stark700]

This Week's Jump Comic Sales:
06. Bleach #62 (387,345 / 387,662)

Interesting first week.

405482 (6) 493743„ 529014„ ------„ ------„«*,627,996 (167) 2013/06 volume 59
255363 (3) 436482„ 493138„ ------„ ------„«*,581,422 (108) 2013/08 volume 60
361988 (5) 468608„ 505811„ ------„ ------„«*,505,811 (*19) 2013/12 volume 61
387662 (6) ------„ ------„ ------„ ------„«*,387,662 (**6) 2014/03 volume 62

I wonder how much before Bleach falls out of the charts
this volume's first week is more than volume 60 and 61.