Battle Best 5 vs Meruem

[Txapeldun]

???? Go back and double check on Indoor Fish...

It's a conjuration ability, that only works in a concealed room...Once Chrollo Raised the glass windows they disappeared and the damage they have done was inflicted..

I checked and I'm still right. Sure, there's the need to use it in a concealed room, but you must raise the windows. How are you going to raise them in Knov's ability?

 

[XXGenesis]

But the fish won't be able to tear his skin. Meruem can take attacks like Zero without problem, a Nen fish isn't going to injure him.

Your correct about Meruem Tanking a solid blast of emitted aura like Zero.

However Indoor Fish is a CONJURATION. Not simply a pure aura attack Fon an enhancer,emitter, or transmuter. The Fish will eat their flesh no mater thier amount of Nen or physical durability...

HXH has yet to prove or show if one's Nen ability can be broken through by sheer overpowerment...Ex...Would or can Meruem break Miziastom Hatsu that keeps you from moving??

Hatsu with Creed's, Limits, Special ability and conditions haven't and don't seem to be able to be broken by sheer force of will or power...

Therefore In HXH you straight up avoid annoying abilities or die, or be fast and skilled enough not to be beaten to death before you personally use an annoying ability.

I checked and I'm still right. Sure, there's the need to use it in a concealed room, but you must raise the windows. How are you going to raise them in Knov's ability?

Sorry to spoil it to you, I was correct from the beginning...Indoor Fish can Only be used in a concealed room. Ex.2011 Anime Shows him lowering the building windows and they disappear then the assasin's dies...

Meaning if a door or window is open in a room Chrollo cannot activate this ability or it simply won't activate....The room can have entrances and opening but they juss have to be closed whole Indoor Fish is in progress.

With that being said...Chrollo+Meleron would have to stay in Knuv's room because the fish would be dispelled after they would try to escape....Chrollo+Meleron makes them an their Nen abilities invisible..:. Meruem is straight losing half of his head from an invisible Indoor fish and from there he loses.....

 

[kkck]

I am not sure if the fish would work like that. Conjuration techniques can potentially play under weird rules however there are still rules. The fish are real, physical fish which means they probably have to physically bite skin from the target. If the flesh is being physically eaten then odds are such a thing can be resisted with nen, as in you could use nen to make it impossible for the fish to bite you. Even then, odds are the king could just destroy the fish considering they are physical things.

Nen abilities are not infinite, they work under certain rules and conditions and their effects are limited. Kurapica is the best example IMO. His chain is really hard and forces the target to zetsu however it is still a real chain with real limits which means it is conceptually plausible to break out of it through physical force. The chain can resist the strongest of the ryodan but that does not mean someone stronger would be unable to do it. The fish probably won't work like shot's ability which just kinda teleported pieces of you elsewhere so for the time being I am inclined to thinking physically biting is a necessity which means it can be physically resisted. If we get to the details, the fish enjoy eating human flesh which means they probably won't like meruem all that much too.

 

[XXGenesis]

I am not sure if the fish would work like that. Conjuration techniques can potentially play under weird rules however there are still rules. The fish are real, physical fish which means they probably have to physically bite skin from the target. If the flesh is being physically eaten then odds are such a thing can be resisted with nen, as in you could use nen to make it impossible for the fish to bite you. Even then, odds are the king could just destroy the fish considering they are physical things.

The Only thing I agree with here is that The King May be able to destroy the fish. Nothing is said to be invernauble or able to rematerailize about them in their description . I only agree their..

But They are invisible through Meleron's God Accomplice, you can't attack what you can't see at least The King can't.

Nen abilities are not infinite, they work under certain rules and conditions and their effects are limited. Kurapica is the best example IMO. His chain is really hard and forces the target to zetsu however it is still a real chain with real limits which means it is conceptually plausible to break out of it through physical force. The chain can resist the strongest of the ryodan but that does not mean someone stronger would be unable to do it.

No they are not infinite but their power or rather conditions are absolute....Ex Kurapicka's Vow; His Condition on other's.

Since we are speaking on Conjured Items/a ability Kurapicka's Chains and Indoor Fish.
They are real things but at the end of the day they are made from and out of NeN.

Chain Jail Even if it wasn't exclusively for the Spiders cannot be broken out of by a Human.
Nen can only be fought with Nen, Chain Jail seals your aura and places you in a state of Zetsu, that's game over in a Nen fight. You are severely disadvantaged ,Without being able to reinforce your nen you will never be able to break a Nen chain...CJ + ET 100%Reinforcment Chain vs Zetsu'd Human=Kurapicka All the Time.

The fish probably won't work like shot's ability which just kinda teleported pieces of you elsewhere so for the time being I am inclined to thinking physically biting is a necessity which means it can be physically resisted. If we get to the details, the fish enjoy eating human flesh which means they probably won't like meruem all that much too.

Like Uvo said about Kurapicka's chain They carry a serious amount of Nen, given the conjured item they can be enhanced because they are Nen not just regular items.

I see the fish more ghastly in way that they chew through their victims like butter they don't bite regularly given that you don't bleed,feel pain, or die from being biten it's like the wounds aren't exactly registered or given yet until they are canceled.

Given the 5 vs Meruem debate; Indoor Fish is still being used in conjunction with Meleron's God Accomplice making them invisible. So after Nereto BFR(Battle field Remove) Meruem with Knuv's help. He enters a room of invisible ghost Nen piranha.

But I understand where your coming from and I can partially agree, but given my own narrative and view on how I see Indoor fish inflicting its ability is different from yours.

 

[kkck]

The Only thing I agree with here is that The King May be able to destroy the fish. Nothing is said to be invernauble or able to rematerailize about them in their description . I only agree their..

But They are invisible through Meleron's God Accomplice, you can't attack what you can't see at least The King can't.



No they are not infinite but their power or rather conditions are absolute....Ex Kurapicka's Vow; His Condition on other's.

Since we are speaking on Conjured Items/a ability Kurapicka's Chains and Indoor Fish.
They are real things but at the end of the day they are made from and out of NeN.

Chain Jail Even if it wasn't exclusively for the Spiders cannot be broken out of by a Human.
Nen can only be fought with Nen, Chain Jail seals your aura and places you in a state of Zetsu, that's game over in a Nen fight. You are severely disadvantaged ,Without being able to reinforce your nen you will never be able to break a Nen chain...CJ + ET 100%Reinforcment Chain vs Zetsu'd Human=Kurapicka All the Time.

But for the fish to actually be able to eat anything there would have to be a condition that allows that. Otherwise it is just a normal byte. Sure, they might be able to bite through a human but that is not the same as biting through meruem. Specially if meruem has aura covering his body. Assuming the fish would even eat a non human there is no guanrantee their byte would do something. What are the vows, rules and conditions that guarantee that the byte is more than a byte and not just a regular byte with a gimick that is a factor after the byte is effective?

Yeah but being made out of nen does not make them fundamentally special. Nen allows you to conjure things which have the properties of regular things. So being made out of nen is not in itself an advantage because they can ultimately only make things as good as the ones that already exist. So kurapica's chain is not a nen chain, it is a chain that looks, feels and behave as a completely ordinary chain. Kurapica does have his conditions and whatnot but the chain is still ordinary in that regard.

 

[XXGenesis]

But for the fish to actually be able to eat anything there would have to be a condition that allows that. Otherwise it is just a normal byte. Sure, they might be able to bite through a human but that is not the same as biting through meruem. Specially if meruem has aura covering his body. Assuming the fish would even eat a non human there is no guanrantee their byte would do something. What are the vows, rules and conditions that guarantee that the byte is more than a byte and not just a regular byte with a gimick that is a factor after the byte is effective?

Meruem is part Human in case you forgot, I feel you are being very literal to Where it states The Fish eats Human flesh etc etc That can very well be the case that it is strictly human, but it goes to states flesh...I see it as being vague n ambiguous it being an 1 of many tricks of a character we'll most likely won't see again.

My point again we see The indoor fish differently and it's showing is vague and I'm not strechtbing it's capabilities so we can agree to disagree. The conjured fish don't bite/eat like regular fish. They engulf whatever they eat etherlly, they aren't Bitr through bones and organs..they are erasing whatever they eat..:

The set condition on these fish is that they can only be summoned and survive in a sealed room...Setting Conditions and Vows strenghting a desired effect or ability to your Nen...This condition allows them eat human/flesh ambiguously....Seeing if the fish eats ya forearm or foot you can still move and not feel any pain but you wouldn't have a foot or you will lose half your arm with your hand suspended in the air...

Yeah but being made out of nen does not make them fundamentally special.
Nen allows you to conjure things which have the properties of regular things. So being made out of nen is not in itself an advantage because they can ultimately only make things as good as the ones that already exist.

?????!!! Please go read HunterxHunter Wikia Nen breakdown.

That statement of not being able to make thing better than they already exist(GoD's creations) is BS when talking about Nen and HXH...Ex.Shizuki(Spider Girl with glasses)...Does not conjure a regular Vaccum. A regular Vaccum cannot store an infinite amount of non sentient items, much less such blood or dead bodies.....Why can she do this because it is a Nen Vaccum and not an ordinary Vaccum..

Basically Kckk, Conjures make regular items with Special properties an abilities. Your confusing Conjuer and Transmuters......Transmuter copies elements,substances, and properties or natural things....The things Conjurers make are not regular!

So kurapica's chain is not a nen chain, it is a chain that looks, feels and behave as a completely ordinary chain. Kurapica does have his conditions and whatnot but the chain is still ordinary in that regard.

Yes it is a NEN chain....The only way for a Nen chain to even exist is to conjure one...-_- Which is what kirapicka did...In order for him to create something like a chain which is a real item, he has to be famaliar with its taste,feel,sound,texture, all of its properties to replicate such a thing after with vows and restriction he's able to exhibit all of 5 Nen Properties through his chain and Scarlet Eyes(Which they call ET).

A regular Chain cannot put ppl in Zetsu or confine a humans who can lift Several Thousand tons.

Nothing a Conjuer makes is regular it just looks regular.

 

[kkck]

Meruem is part Human in case you forgot, I feel you are being very literal to Where it states The Fish eats Human flesh etc etc That can very well be the case that it is strictly human, but it goes to states flesh...I see it as being vague n ambiguous it being an 1 of many tricks of a character we'll most likely won't see again.

My point again we see The indoor fish differently and it's showing is vague and I'm not strechtbing it's capabilities so we can agree to disagree. The conjured fish don't bite/eat like regular fish. They engulf whatever they eat etherlly, they aren't Bitr through bones and organs..they are erasing whatever they eat..:

The set condition on these fish is that they can only be summoned and survive in a sealed room...Setting Conditions and Vows strenghting a desired effect or ability to your Nen...This condition allows them eat human/flesh ambiguously....Seeing if the fish eats ya forearm or foot you can still move and not feel any pain but you wouldn't have a foot or you will lose half your arm with your hand suspended in the air...




?????!!! Please go read HunterxHunter Wikia Nen breakdown.

That statement of not being able to make thing better than they already exist(GoD's creations) is BS when talking about Nen and HXH...Ex.Shizuki(Spider Girl with glasses)...Does not conjure a regular Vaccum. A regular Vaccum cannot store an infinite amount of non sentient items, much less such blood or dead bodies.....Why can she do this because it is a Nen Vaccum and not an ordinary Vaccum..

Basically Kckk, Conjures make regular items with Special properties an abilities. Your confusing Conjuer and Transmuters......Transmuter copies elements,substances, and properties or natural things....The things Conjurers make are not regular!



Yes it is a NEN chain....The only way for a Nen chain to even exist is to conjure one...-_- Which is what kirapicka did...In order for him to create something like a chain which is a real item, he has to be famaliar with its taste,feel,sound,texture, all of its properties to replicate such a thing after with vows and restriction he's able to exhibit all of 5 Nen Properties through his chain and Scarlet Eyes(Which they call ET).

A regular Chain cannot put ppl in Zetsu or confine a humans who can lift Several Thousand tons.

Nothing a Conjuer makes is regular it just looks regular.

We never really saw the fish biting. We did see the guy that was eaten by them.
http://www.mangareader.net/207-14106-1/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-97.html
Seeing how he looks it kinda seems like the fish bites are actually just regular bites, nothing more. Its not like when shoot used his ability on killua or something of the sort. We have no evidence to suggest the biting is anything other than completely ordinary. If it is then resisting would be a simple matter. It depends on how much strength the fish have and how strong the target is. Also, the point made in the manga is that the fish go crazy over human flesh. The king is indeed part human but his chimera ant part is at least every bit as relevant.

Its not BS, at least within the context of the manga. Conjuring can make special objects but only within the confines of their rules and restrictions. And even then the situation is not simple because you can't make something infinitely strong. Just look at kurapica, he had to set up a fight with uvo just to find out if his chain would work. And even then he made the point that physical strength could in fact potentially break the chain.

Of course it is a chain, I am not saying it isn't. My point is that it is not like hakuware where it is relevant that it is made out of nen. Conjuration is meant to create real, physical objects with properties of said real objects. Those can be improved via the addition of rules and restrictions.

 

[Txapeldun]

Sorry to spoil it to you, I was correct from the beginning...Indoor Fish can Only be used in a concealed room. Ex.2011 Anime Shows him lowering the building windows and they disappear then the assasin's dies...

Meaning if a door or window is open in a room Chrollo cannot activate this ability or it simply won't activate....The room can have entrances and opening but they juss have to be closed whole Indoor Fish is in progress.

With that being said...Chrollo+Meleron would have to stay in Knuv's room because the fish would be dispelled after they would try to escape....Chrollo+Meleron makes them an their Nen abilities invisible..:. Meruem is straight losing half of his head from an invisible Indoor fish and from there he loses.....

Sigh
Take it easy, there's no need to be rude, it's only manga. (and then again, you're still wrong)
Sure, he could activate it, but in order for Meruem to DIE, he should open something. How exactly can Knov open a window in his ability? If your theory made sense, supposing Kuroro and Knov had any chance to trap the king (which they don't) and supposing again that Kuroro woukd have the time to open the book and use the ability, how is the king going to die after being hit? The guy in New York Shin had vital spots taken from him and he could still talk. Where exactly did you get the idea that it would be any different for Meruem? (Who on top of that is no fodder?)
Well, supposing he gets trapped and attacked by the fish. Great. Now, if they want him dead, they should open something. You have Knov dispel the room? Do you think that would work? Do you think opening a door to that room will work? I don't think so.

 

[XXGenesis]

We never really saw the fish biting. We did see the guy that was eaten by them.
http://www.mangareader.net/207-14106-1/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-97.html
Seeing how he looks it kinda seems like the fish bites are actually just regular bites, nothing more. Its not like when shoot used his ability on killua or something of the sort. We have no evidence to suggest the biting is anything other than completely ordinary. If it is then resisting would be a simple matter. It depends on how much strength the fish have and how strong the target is. Also, the point made in the manga is that the fish go crazy over human flesh. The king is indeed part human but his chimera ant part is at least every bit as relevant.

Its not BS, at least within the context of the manga. Conjuring can make special objects but only within the confines of their rules and restrictions. And even then the situation is not simple because you can't make something infinitely strong. Just look at kurapica, he had to set up a fight with uvo just to find out if his chain would work. And even then he made the point that physical strength could in fact potentially break the chain.

Of course it is a chain, I am not saying it isn't. My point is that it is not like hakuware where it is relevant that it is made out of nen. Conjuration is meant to create real, physical objects with properties of said real objects. Those can be improved via the addition of rules and restrictions.

I said we can agree to disagree for this very reason. The fish aren't shown attacking just the result of their attack. An assasin was riddled with bite marks as if why they ate where straight erased, and he was still alive..After the fish disappeared all his wounds were opened up and what was left off him fell.

We don't know for a fact how they attack. From my POV and understanding they engulf/erase whatever flesh they mouth comes in to contact with...For me majority of Conjured items posses abilities or effects that cannot be physically resisted.

Kurapicka's Chain's are by far much much much better than any ordinary chain. That statement is do to a rough translation..And the point of it was to show Kurapicka how acquire absolute Strenght through vows and restriction..

Haikuware is an Emisson Hatsu with conditions and restriction not a Conjuration Hatsu. What does that have to do with anything?? Your repeating what im saying in ya last paragraph.

Sigh
Take it easy, there's no need to be rude, it's only manga. (and then again, you're still wrong)
Sure, he could activate it, but in order for Meruem to DIE, he should open something. How exactly can Knov open a window in his ability? If your theory made sense, supposing Kuroro and Knov had any chance to trap the king (which they don't) and supposing again that Kuroro woukd have the time to open the book and use the ability, how is the king going to die after being hit? The guy in New York Shin had vital spots taken from him and he could still talk. Where exactly did you get the idea that it would be any different for Meruem? (Who on top of that is no fodder?)
Well, supposing he gets trapped and attacked by the fish. Great. Now, if they want him dead, they should open something. You have Knov dispel the room? Do you think that would work? Do you think opening a door to that room will work? I don't think so.

You didn't show me how I was wrong though? And now your switching your argument .

It's impressive that you ignore again and again that Chrollo is invisible with Meleron as long with his Fish.

Knuv actually can create doors inside his hotel to combine the rooms. It wouldn't even need to be connected any door that opens cancels the fish and the King dies.

The Indoor fish ability removes what it eats completely, How is Meruem gonna survive or move with half his body gone or legs removed before he even realizes it.

 

[Demonspeed]

It's true that a bite should not be able to do anything to Meruem but it's possible that the fishes are able to bite everything as long as they are in a closed room. The usefulness of this ability is questionable to me while the conditions are strict.

The victim doesn't feel pain and dies with the fish, but doesn't it seem unnecessary? He can be mortally wounded and doesn't feel pain, this is not even useful for torture since the victim feels nothing. But if the fishes are able to bite absolutely anything as long as they are in a closed room, it makes things more understandable though Chrollos aid they only eat human flesh, Meruem is part human but his body is one of a chimera ant, so if they only eat human flesh(which would make the conditions even stricter btw), they won't do anything to Meruem. Nothing can prove this since we will probably never get more informations about this ability... Agree to disagree is indeed better.

 

[Riyuki]

I have nothing to base this on, but I bet Ging and Pariston could handle Meruem together ..... I want to know Paristons nen ability soooo bad!!!

 

[Phantron]

You're not supposed to be able to conjure better stuff than real life stuff. Kuroro is one away from Conjuration and yet he uses a real knife (and a really good one to boot) and it's coated with real poison. If conjuring stuff is supposed to be superior, why does he use real versions of both the weapon and the poison? Unfortunately this is constantly violated because if it's strictly upheld then that'd make conjuring stuff a total waste of time.

 

[Demonspeed]

You're not supposed to be able to conjure better stuff than real life stuff. Kuroro is one away from Conjuration and yet he uses a real knife (and a really good one to boot) and it's coated with real poison. If conjuring stuff is supposed to be superior, why does he use real versions of both the weapon and the poison? Unfortunately this is constantly violated because if it's strictly upheld then that'd make conjuring stuff a total waste of time.

Conjured weapons can be a lot better than normal ones with conditions though. Chrollo's ability is to steal abilities, it's better to use a real knife and fight than wasting his potential to only create a poisoned knife, which is able to kill with one cut most of people..

 

[Riyuki]

^ I'm pretty sure that was a real knife, not a conjured knife that Chrollo used against Silva.

 

[Demonspeed]

^ I'm pretty sure that was a real knife, not a conjured knife that Chrollo used against Silva.

That's what I said. It's better to use a real one than conjure it.

 

[Phantron]

Conjured weapons can be a lot better than normal ones with conditions though. Chrollo's ability is to steal abilities, it's better to use a real knife and fight than wasting his potential to only create a poisoned knife, which is able to kill with one cut most of people..

And what conjured ability is better than a knife that can kill most people in one cut?

Conditions isn't this magic sauce that makes everything better. Just because characters like Gon gets away with bogus conditions that turns him into a Super Saiyan doesn't mean that's how the world works for anyone else. Kurapika, an equally talented main character, always acknowledged that the Chain Jail can indeed by broken by someone who is physically strong enough, which is why he had to test it on Ubogin first. If Meryem decided to join the Spiders he'd almost certainly be strong enough to break Chain Jail with physical strength alone. And the whole point of Chain Jail is that after putting on a ridiculously tough restriction, the Spiders always just assumed the chains put people to sleep or paralyze them because that's all you need to do be able to kill anybody so they never thought the condition would be that tough!

Of course if people are actually serious about winning fights to the death you'd see every fight in HXH with two guys in hazmat suits throwing poison grenades at each other. But since that'd make everything incredibly lame, people magically forget that having poisoned anything can kill anybody on wound and instead spend all their time honing in on abilities that are considerably worse than 'death on wound'. Despite the fact that creating a sword that can cut through anything is clearly 'beyond human limits', apparently it's not all that hard to create another dimension if you're Novu.

 

[Riyuki]

And what conjured ability is better than a knife that can kill most people in one cut?

Conditions isn't this magic sauce that makes everything better. Just because characters like Gon gets away with bogus conditions that turns him into a Super Saiyan doesn't mean that's how the world works for anyone else. Kurapika, an equally talented main character, always acknowledged that the Chain Jail can indeed by broken by someone who is physically strong enough, which is why he had to test it on Ubogin first. If Meryem decided to join the Spiders he'd almost certainly be strong enough to break Chain Jail with physical strength alone. And the whole point of Chain Jail is that after putting on a ridiculously tough restriction, the Spiders always just assumed the chains put people to sleep or paralyze them because that's all you need to do be able to kill anybody so they never thought the condition would be that tough!

Of course if people are actually serious about winning fights to the death you'd see every fight in HXH with two guys in hazmat suits throwing poison grenades at each other. But since that'd make everything incredibly lame, people magically forget that having poisoned anything can kill anybody on wound and instead spend all their time honing in on abilities that are considerably worse than 'death on wound'. Despite the fact that creating a sword that can cut through anything is clearly 'beyond human limits', apparently it's not all that hard to create another dimension if you're Novu.

Bogus conditions for Gon that make him a SSJ? What? Gon basically killed himself to achieve that 1 time strength bonus. If Killua didn't save him with Alluka then he would be looking like a dead, brown, crippled zombie or some shit.

also,

Spoiler

Even when Alluka healed Gon - Gon is still absolutely without nen. What is he doing in the manga right now? He's cooking dinner with Mita and nothing else lol...

 

[Demonspeed]

^^I was only talking about Conjured items, why would Chrollo conjure a poisonous knife and waste his potential when has the power to do more? Benz Knives are imbued with Nen anyway. Kurapika's chains are breakable yes, but they are much more solid than any normal chain, that's why Uvo could do nothing about it, it's way better than a normal chain. Shizuku's Blinky can do the same things as a regular vacuum and much more but it can't suck up living things. All Conjurers weapons are ebtter than normal ones because they have some kind of ability, when it is not then you made a bad choice(Cheetu with his crossbow for example)

 

[Phantron]

There's no indication conjured items have any better physical quality than normal stuff. Beyond Netero was shown handcuffed by what's presumably a real handcuff, and he's likely the strongest human in the entire series by a significant advantage. Ignoring special property that randomly ignores the 'limit of human' like how Shizuku can suck things up to another dimension that she doesn't even know about, conjured items are quite worthless compared to their real counterparts, which is why you randomly have conjured items that can do stuff that are quite beyond human capability, but only if Togashi decided to give you such a bailout.

For the conditions, just because Togashi has a way of making bogus conditions sound like it's very hard doesn't mean one can't apply some critical thinking. Giving up your life is not a serious condition when facing a guy who has 100% chance of killing you. If what Gon does is actually perfectly normal then you'd just have guys randomly turn 10 times stronger right before they die because after all if you're going to die you might as well mortgage whatever future you could've had and it's not going to get any worse, so for example when Hisoka fought Kastro, Kastro no longer had enough aura to use another clone, but he should be like: "I'll never use aura again so I need about 10X of my current power to defeat Hisoka now", and then since Hisoka technically had no arms left at that time to defend against even a normal attack he'd be forced to also use a "never use aura again" power and then Hisoka would be done. Netero's final attack basically used up his remaining life force and all it did was made Meryem more bruised than usual, and the difference between Netero and Meryem is considerably less than the difference between Gon and Pitou.

Yes Gon has super potential so you can handwave some of that stuff, but the notion that he had to give up a lot is nonsense. He would have died with 100% certainty if he didn't get his bailout power. Whatever aftereffect you may have to suffer is still better than dying outright. And no there is no such thing as 'fate worse than death', because otherwise anyone would just ask for super power bailout for suffering a 'fate worse than death' and it'd be the complete norm to see random newbies completely destroy the top 5 users because they're willing to take a 'fate worse than death' condition. Sacrificing your life should roughly be the difference between bruised and more bruised (the amount of damage Meryem took from Netero's attacks), and that was from one of the most powerful characters in the series.

 

[Riyuki]

^^

My favorite line from Morel : "So... you created a cross-bow thats slower than yourself? " lol!