Fall NFL Thread

[xi0]

Cheating and placing bounties on players results in the same thing -- hurting the integrity of the game. That was my only point. And it isn't only the Patriots that get punished for doing so.

Yeah but even if that was true, why would Mangini hold a grudge against Belichick for something Mangini supposedly did? It doesn't make sense. Mangini has basically said that he didn't thinking taping gave them much of advantage, but he wasn't going to let them do it in the Jet's home stadium. He even regrets what resulted from him reporting it.

If deflating the ball is against the rules, it's against the rules. Now, maybe you can talk about what kind of advantage someone would get from doing it, but that's a different discussion entirely. That fact is, the only reason teams would do such a thing is to get an advantage, and that's kind of the definition of cheating. What occurred in the game is inconsequential.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Cheating and placing bounties on players results in the same thing -- hurting the integrity of the game. That was my only point. And it isn't only the Patriots that get punished for doing so.

Well, both do hurt the integrity of the game. I'm not really going to get into an argument about gradations or seriousness of cheating, although I do think that BountyGate was probably the worst thing we've seen in the NFL for a long time.

Other the aforementioned two issues, and now this potential current issue, have you seen any team get punished for anything that infringes rules in within the last 10-15 years? Plenty of players have gotten punished for things like PED/substance use, but that's generally not a team issue.

What I was saying is that it's only the Patriots who are getting punished over questionable balls. Other teams this season have been caught (Panthers/Vikings) and Rodgers admitted he tampers with the balls and no punishments were handed out. That's called unfair application of justice.

Yeah but even if that was true, why would Mangini hold a grudge against Belichick for something Mangini supposedly did? It doesn't make sense. Mangini has basically said that he didn't thinking taping gave them much of advantage, but he wasn't going to let them do it in the Jet's home stadium. He even regrets what resulted from him reporting it.

Then talk to Belichick about it beforehand. Mangini's not an idiot. When he reported it (and the Patriots aren't the only team who had camera crews in "illegal" positions, just we were the only ones who actually got punished), he knew exactly what would happen. He may have not realized that it would cast aspersions on the entire Patriots three SBs in four years thing, or even himself for having participated in it in the past (although, the camera positioning wasn't really illegal for most of the time Mangini was there), but he had to know that it would just give fuel for the media and fans to go, "CHEATERS!" Look at you, Gary. You're saying that the Patriots are guilty until proven innocent. If you weren't a Patriots or a Colts fan (Colts fans have generally wanted this issue put to the side and the fact that they lost 45-7 recognized), you generally assumed the instant that you heard the story that the Patriots cheated. [edited to properly illustrate point]

If deflating the ball is against the rules, it's against the rules. Now, maybe you can talk about what kind of advantage someone would get from doing it, but that's a different discussion entirely. That fact is, the only reason teams would do such a thing is to get an advantage, and that's kind of the definition of cheating. What occurred in the game is inconsequential.

I know I said that I didn't want to discuss gradations of cheating above, but it's not like we listened in to the opposing team's headsets (Go Giants! This was a long time ago, mind you) in the past.

I don't really think that any advantage can really be gained via this, but that's a different issue. Well, plenty of people want to talk about this like it invalidates the entire game, so it kind of does matter.

---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 PM ----------

Proof that we cheated: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12204030

I apologize, Gary. I'm disappointed and feel let down.

I don't think that it actually gave us any sort of advantage, but...

 

[Jammin]

I just heard a pretty interesting thing on the Football Today podcast. Tim Hasselbeck had some pretty interesting things to say about the whole thing. As a former NFL QB and former Patriots ball boy.

Basically, he was saying that the only person who would have necessarily noticed this would have been Tom Brady. The starting QB and the equipment staff are the only parties that are involved in managing the way the football feels. He seemed to think that Belichick probably wouldn't have had any role, and likely no knowledge, of how inflated the balls were; and that most other players and even the refs wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That's something that's the domain of the starting QB and the equipment staff. The QB tells those guys how he wants the ball broken in and they do it. That's the way it works, I guess. And that the only reason it was caught was when the guy handed his interception ball over to the Colts equipment staff they noticed immediately because that's their job.

When asked if he'd ever heard rumors of this kind of thing before in the NFL. He also said that he had, about the Patriots. And that the league had heard before that they were doing this.

So it sounds to me like the prime suspect here isn't Bill Belichick or the Patriots organization but instead Tom Brady.

 

[xi0]

I just heard a pretty interesting thing on the Football Today podcast. Tim Hasselbeck had some pretty interesting things to say about the whole thing. As a former NFL QB and former Patriots ball boy.

Basically, he was saying that the only person who would have necessarily noticed this would have been Tom Brady. The starting QB and the equipment staff are the only parties that are involved in managing the way the football feels. He seemed to think that Belichick probably wouldn't have had any role, and likely no knowledge, of how inflated the balls were; and that most other players and even the refs wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That's something that's the domain of the starting QB and the equipment staff. The QB tells those guys how he wants the ball broken in and they do it. That's the way it works, I guess. And that the only reason it was caught was when the guy handed his interception ball over to the Colts equipment staff they noticed immediately because that's their job.

When asked if he'd ever heard rumors of this kind of thing before in the NFL. He also said that he had, about the Patriots. And that the league had heard before that they were doing this.

So it sounds to me like the prime suspect here isn't Bill Belichick or the Patriots organization but instead Tom Brady.

There's a pretty cryptic quote going around from the past, Brady commenting on how when Gronkowski spikes the ball, he deflates it. And that's good, because he likes deflated balls.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

Well, both do hurt the integrity of the game. I'm not really going to get into an argument about gradations or seriousness of cheating, although I do think that BountyGate was probably the worst thing we've seen in the NFL for a long time.

Other the aforementioned two issues, and now this potential current issue, have you seen any team get punished for anything that infringes rules in within the last 10-15 years? Plenty of players have gotten punished for things like PED/substance use, but that's generally not a team issue.

Teams have to get caught breaking the rules in order to be punished. Just assuming that "everyone does it" is all fine and good. But it has no practical application and serves no purpose in this argument.

Then talk to Belichick about it beforehand. Mangini's not an idiot. When he reported it (and the Patriots aren't the only team who had camera crews in "illegal" positions, just we were the only ones who actually got punished), he knew exactly what would happen. He may have not realized that it would cast aspersions on the entire Patriots three SBs in four years thing, or even himself for having participated in it in the past (although, the camera positioning wasn't really illegal for most of the time Mangini was there), but he had to know that it would just give fuel for the media and fans to go, "CHEATERS!" Look at you, Gary. You're saying that the Patriots are guilty until proven innocent. If you weren't a Patriots or a Colts fan (Colts fans have generally wanted this issue put to the side and the fact that they lost 45-7 recognized), you generally assumed the instant that you heard the story that the Patriots cheated. [edited to properly illustrate point]

Uh, I would say 99% of NFL fans would react the same way to this story. People might poopoo the advantage gained, but they're not really focusing on the actual matter at hand. Circumstances are a factor. Who would really be surprised about the Patriots cheating again?

I don't really think that any advantage can really be gained via this, but that's a different issue. Well, plenty of people want to talk about this like it invalidates the entire game, so it kind of does matter.

I don't think it invalidates the entire game, but what would really? That's part of the reason punishments are so severe. They would have a logistical problem replaying the game, and sending Indy instead also looks kind of odd.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Uh, I would say 99% of NFL fans would react the same way to this story. People might poopoo the advantage gained, but they're not really focusing on the actual matter at hand. Circumstances are a factor. Who would really be surprised about the Patriots cheating again?

People didn't react that way about the Panthers/Vikings tampering with balls in the cold. People didn't react that way when the commentators (Nantz and Simms) during Patriots vs Packers told us that Rodgers told them that he flaunted the rules. Rodgers, of course, defended his comments yesterday by saying that he just didn't think that there needed to be a maximum.

I don't think it invalidates the entire game, but what would really? That's part of the reason punishments are so severe. They would have a logistical problem replaying the game, and sending Indy instead also looks kind of odd.

It wasn't a close enough score that you could ever consider replaying the game. We could play again tomorrow and the result would be the Patriots winning by at least 2 TDs, if not three or four.

 

[xi0]

People didn't react that way about the Panthers/Vikings tampering with balls in the cold. People didn't react that way when the commentators (Nantz and Simms) during Patriots vs Packers told us that Rodgers told them that he flaunted the rules. Rodgers, of course, defended his comments yesterday by saying that he just didn't think that there needed to be a maximum.



It wasn't a close enough score that you could ever consider replaying the game. We could play again tomorrow and the result would be the Patriots winning by at least 2 TDs, if not three or four.

Maybe they haven't visited it yet? The Patriots are still playing, thus relevant, so they're in the news more than those teams. Especially if the NFL is considering punishment that might effect the Super Bowl.

Sorry, that's a ridiculous statement. Anything could happen if they replayed it.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Maybe they haven't visited it yet? The Patriots are still playing, thus relevant, so they're in the news more than those teams. Especially if the NFL is considering punishment that might effect the Super Bowl.

Sorry, that's a ridiculous statement. Anything could happen if they replayed it.

Oh, so you're saying that the NFL completely held off punishment on the teams involved already this season and just wanted to deal with it after the season? Sounds really fair.

Sorry, Gary, but I don't think that you've seen the four games that the Patriots have played against Luck. It's never been closer than 22 points.

 

[xi0]

Oh, so you're saying that the NFL completely held off punishment on the teams involved already this season and just wanted to deal with it after the season? Sounds really fair.

Sorry, Gary, but I don't think that you've seen the four games that the Patriots have played against Luck. It's never been closer than 22 points.

The NFL isn't infallible, we've seen that this season more than any other. But I think it'd be pretty stupid if it isn't investigated. Same with the claims the Ravens made. For the NFL to not do their due diligence with every case would be pretty careless. Not sure how fairness factors into it, as long as punishment is dealt out where it's appropriate. There's nothing left to play for with the other teams you mentioned.

I didn't say they wouldn't win...

 

[FrostyMouse]

The NFL isn't infallible, we've seen that this season more than any other. But I think it'd be pretty stupid if it isn't investigated. Same with the claims the Ravens made. For the NFL to not do their due diligence with every case would be pretty careless. Not sure how fairness factors into it, as long as punishment is dealt out where it's appropriate. There's nothing left to play for with the other teams you mentioned.

I didn't say they wouldn't win...

Oh, this newest thing should be investigated, but if the Patriots are punished for this, I'm pretty sure that Rodgers and the Panthers/Vikings should be as well. Otherwise, it's just a case of, "It's the Patriots, so we're punishing." It doesn't matter whether there's anything left to play for with the other three teams. They're also guilty of ball tampering. Some people might think Peyton is, as he's the one who pushed for the teams to be able to control the balls, but I'm going to not say that he's guilty because who knows.

Then it's not "anything can happen Thursday."

 

[xi0]

My point was just assuming that they would because of the last loss, and therefore replaying it would be pointless....seems off to me, sorry

 

[FrostyMouse]

My point was just assuming that they would because of the last loss, and therefore replaying it would be pointless....seems off to me, sorry

Well, in the second half when people played with properly inflated footballs, it was a 28-0 destruction, so...

 

[xi0]

Not really a fan of Pete Carroll or his antics, but I like the way the Seahawks play, so I hope they win. Plus, it's always entertaining to see the Patriots fail.

 

[Jammin]

I'm also rooting for the Seabirds for two reasons.

1) I like rooting for defense more than offense.
2) I love it when Bill Simmons is depressed.

No matter what happens it will never be able to approach the BS Report Podcast after after the Pat's second Superbowl loss to the Giants but if the Pats lose and he has to suffer through another round of "The Patriots can't win unless they cheat" for the whole NFL offseason then America is the real winner.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Oh, you two are just salty. Gary could never stand to see the Patriots or Steelers win, even though he's had to five times in recent history. Jammin, I expected better from you.

 

[xi0]

I wouldn't be that salty about the Steelers winning. At least it's nothing compared to the Pats winning.

 

[FrostyMouse]

I wouldn't be that salty about the Steelers winning. At least it's nothing compared to the Pats winning.

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. So, you'd have less problems with your hated divisional rival winning than with the Patriots winning? LOL

 

[xi0]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. So, you'd have less problems with your hated divisional rival winning than with the Patriots winning? LOL

What is hard to understand about that? The two franchises are basically mirror images. On top of that having a blue-collar fanbase. I know your division is historically soft as hell, so you have no real rival in your division.

You seem to exist in a world where everyone who isn't a NE fan doesn't freaking hate them...wake up

 

[Riku]

I won't write much so I won't embarrass myself, but I can't wait for it to start. Seahawks ftw

 

[xi0]

I won't write much so I won't embarrass myself, but I can't wait for it to start. Seahawks ftw

Please embarrass yourself

 

[Jammin]

Oh, you two are just salty. Gary could never stand to see the Patriots or Steelers win, even though he's had to five times in recent history. Jammin, I expected better from you.

You really shouldn't.

I wouldn't be that salty about the Steelers winning. At least it's nothing compared to the Pats winning.

You might be the better man on that front. My saltiness is a MAX when the Ravens are involved.

I'll say this though it's hard to achieve the same level of schadenfreude with any team other the Patriots. There is just something about the way Boston sports fans suffer that tickles my happy place like no other. I want to read another article like this one. That probably makes me a bad person, but I can't help it.