Discussion King

[Holt]

Actually this Albion was about twice as tall as the previous one. And it caused way more destruction, that didnt only include the fairy forest. This Albion was either superior or at least eaqual to the other one. It seems to be most likely much faster than the other one so I doubt Mel could have just sliced it up, not to mention that Albions seem to be able to grow body parts at will.

Faster, taller, yes. Their power levels should also be on the same level naturally but king and the fairies weren't giving it any trouble and albion adjusts to the opponents power. If we are talking about which albion showed more, its the fat one hands down.
Its probably faster than the other one but that doesn't make it fast enough to stop Mel.

I am not sure there is much of a debate about this. I mean, the chapter itself is pretty clear about the power king is releasing, we literally see the power king is releasing which is not a common occurrence in the manga (the only other time we have seen this is when mel used revenge counter). The nail thing probably has to do with the fact that he uses his hands to control chastiefol. With that in mind it is not that weird that he would have gotten hurt like that.

Which was why I said maybe. Its just a thought. We did see the power king was releasing but we've seen Mel do something similar with no such repercussions (although Mel is more durable). Its not a big deal anyway, it was just weird that he got injured by his power (whatever it was).

 

[overlordpringerx]

Faster, taller, yes. Their power levels should also be on the same level naturally but king and the fairies weren't giving it any trouble and albion adjusts to the opponents power. If we are talking about which albion showed more, its the fat one hands down.
Its probably faster than the other one but that doesn't make it fast enough to stop Mel.

The fat one didnt show anything. And I'm not saying it because of who was fighting him, I'm saying that because of the destruction it caused. The fat one only did one thing that the slim one didn't do was the whole 5-blasts-at-a-time-thing. The slim Albion showed less firepower, but has still caused much more damage just with it's strength. It fucking backhanded a mountain! and judging by how much damage it did, I'm pretty sure this one would have destroyed Merlin's shield in a single hit. Also, the Albions dont 'adjust to power', they learn from battle, that's different. But that is more of a discussion for their own thread anyway. Let's go back to King. Yeah, revenge Counter IS similar to true spirit spear Chastiefol. But while King uses his own power, Mel uses the power he absorbed from the attacks he had to stand. So it makes sense Mel didn't get injured further when using it, revenge counter is already risky enough, as Mel could actually die if the attack he absorbs is too powerful for him to take, and unlike with full counter, he still gets injured. That is in my opinion a clever way to give the characters different weaknesses. Gowther for example is vulnerable when using nightmare teller, and he can only use it on one opponent at a time. Ban has a similar problem with Snatch. Escanor is a wimp at night (as far as we know) and Diane... I cant really think of anything right now. We will have to see with Merlin.

 

[Holt]

The fat one didnt show anything. And I'm not saying it because of who was fighting him, I'm saying that because of the destruction it caused. The fat one only did one thing that the slim one didn't do was the whole 5-blasts-at-a-time-thing. The slim Albion showed less firepower, but has still caused much more damage just with it's strength. It fucking backhanded a mountain! and judging by how much damage it did, I'm pretty sure this one would have destroyed Merlin's shield in a single hit. Also, the Albions dont 'adjust to power', they learn from battle, that's different. But that is more of a discussion for their own thread anyway.

Which is what I'm saying. You are ignoring the context of the situation. Yes the slim destroyed more and might have seemed more dangerous but that's because it was fighting weaklings and king (who was the only competent opponent) wasn't strong enough.
Fat guy seemed to have more strength frankly going by their structure.

The 5 blasts are far bigger than anything slim albion did. Both should be about the same level. In terms of firepower and ability, the fat one showed much more but no destruction because it had numerous opponents which prevented it from causing any damage. Merlins barrier prevented it from destroying Camelot, first blast took all camelot's had to block. Second Blast was countered by Mel and Mel eventually finished it off.
The slim one didn't have anyone capable of preventing it from the destruction which is why is destroyed more but it showed less power.

Let's go back to King. Yeah, revenge Counter IS similar to true spirit spear Chastiefol. But while King uses his own power, Mel uses the power he absorbed from the attacks he had to stand. So it makes sense Mel didn't get injured further when using it, revenge counter is already risky enough, as Mel could actually die if the attack he absorbs is too powerful for him to take, and unlike with full counter, he still gets injured. That is in my opinion a clever way to give the characters different weaknesses. Gowther for example is vulnerable when using nightmare teller, and he can only use it on one opponent at a time. Ban has a similar problem with Snatch. Escanor is a wimp at night (as far as we know) and Diane... I cant really think of anything right now. We will have to see with Merlin.

Kings weakness was already him being pretty frail/fragile. If you get past chastefiol, king himself is not difficult to take down. He doesn't have the speed and strength of the other sins.
Mel's injuries from revenge counter come from others but when its said and done, he himself releases a tremendous amount of power just like king did.

Anyway no need to make a big deal of this but like I said, king is the only one so far who gets hurts by his power.

 

[kkck]

King has actually shown a decent bit of speed through the series. He does not need his physical body to move, he flies around presumably using magic which presumably is his highest stat. He would be slow if he had to physically run somewhere.

 

[overlordpringerx]

Which is what I'm saying. You are ignoring the context of the situation. Yes the slim destroyed more and might have seemed more dangerous but that's because it was fighting weaklings and king (who was the only competent opponent) wasn't strong enough.
Fat guy seemed to have more strength frankly going by their structure.

The 5 blasts are far bigger than anything slim albion did. Both should be about the same level. In terms of firepower and ability, the fat one showed much more but no destruction because it had numerous opponents which prevented it from causing any damage. Merlins barrier prevented it from destroying Camelot, first blast took all camelot's had to block. Second Blast was countered by Mel and Mel eventually finished it off.
The slim one didn't have anyone capable of preventing it from the destruction which is why is destroyed more but it showed less power.




Kings weakness was already him being pretty frail/fragile. If you get past chastefiol, king himself is not difficult to take down. He doesn't have the speed and strength of the other sins.
Mel's injuries from revenge counter come from others but when its said and done, he himself releases a tremendous amount of power just like king did.

Anyway no need to make a big deal of this but like I said, king is the only one so far who gets hurts by his power.

Objection! You are contradicting yourself. You said that you think the slim Albion is on the same level as the fat one, yet now you are saying that the fat one surpasses the second one in both strength and fire power? That doesnt make any sense. These things have no spirit level as they are not living creatures, and the fat one seems to be the one with the fire power. And even that wasnt that strong. Meliodas just sent it back with full counter. And the slim Albion's was at least as powerful as sunflower, King's 2nd most powerful attack. And no, Im not ignoring the context of the situation. These things seem to easily get distracted once they meet resistance. Once Mel started fighting the fat one it only paid attention to Meliodas. And the same thing happenned with King and the slender one. Not to mention the fat one didnt meet that much resistance either. The only one that actually fought him was Meliodas. As for King being fragile, have you not paid any attention at all? King was being thrown into the forest and he not only survived, but broke several tree trunks in a row in the process! And then there is the kingdom infiltration arc, where King got hurt the most without being healed until the end. Even Mel and Ban at least have self-healing powers, while Diane got healed twice.

 

[HereNThere]

The 5 blasts are far bigger than anything slim albion did. Both should be about the same level. In terms of firepower and ability, the fat one showed much more but no destruction because it had numerous opponents which prevented it from causing any damage. Merlins barrier prevented it from destroying Camelot, first blast took all camelot's had to block. Second Blast was countered by Mel and Mel eventually finished it off.
The slim one didn't have anyone capable of preventing it from the destruction which is why is destroyed more but it showed less power.

This is pretty much my thoughts. The Slim Albion just didn't have the chance to show off it's fire power as it really wasn't needed as King basically went from 0-100 with no in between and wiped it out before it could adapt, unlike the other one who had time to adapt to Meliodas' and Camelot's levels. As far as strength goes, the two are the same in my opinion, but they just have different methods of attack. The Fat one used it's fist to smash, while the Slim one used it's elongated arms to slice. Both most likely had the same level of armor.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

King has actually shown a decent bit of speed through the series. He does not need his physical body to move, he flies around presumably using magic which presumably is his highest stat. He would be slow if he had to physically run somewhere.

Yeah, he was shown to be comparable to Ban and Mel on multiple occasions.

 

[overlordpringerx]

This is pretty much my thoughts. The Slim Albion just didn't have the chance to show off it's fire power as it really wasn't needed as King basically went from 0-100 with no in between and wiped it out before it could adapt, unlike the other one who had time to adapt to Meliodas' and Camelot's levels. As far as strength goes, the two are the same in my opinion, but they just have different methods of attack. The Fat one used it's fist to smash, while the Slim one used it's elongated arms to slice. Both most likely had the same level of armor.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------



Yeah, he was shown to be comparable to Ban and Mel on multiple occasions.

Yeah, that seems reasonable. Different Albions for different situations. One to destroy areas with civilization, and another for places that are much more natural. I dont think punching the tree down would have worked, and smashing is a much better way to destroy small structures. Also Albions dont immediately adapt. They first take a hit, memorize it, and prevent it from working again. That was also the case the slim Albion. It had to take sunflower's beam at first before countering it when it was used again.

 

[Holt]

Objection! You are contradicting yourself. You said that you think the slim Albion is on the same level as the fat one, yet now you are saying that the fat one surpasses the second one in both strength and fire power? That doesnt make any sense. These things have no spirit level as they are not living creatures, and the fat one seems to be the one with the fire power. And even that wasnt that strong. Meliodas just sent it back with full counter. And the slim Albion's was at least as powerful as sunflower, King's 2nd most powerful attack. And no, Im not ignoring the context of the situation. These things seem to easily get distracted once they meet resistance. Once Mel started fighting the fat one it only paid attention to Meliodas. And the same thing happenned with King and the slender one. Not to mention the fat one didnt meet that much resistance either. The only one that actually fought him was Meliodas. As for King being fragile, have you not paid any attention at all? King was being thrown into the forest and he not only survived, but broke several tree trunks in a row in the process! And then there is the kingdom infiltration arc, where King got hurt the most without being healed until the end. Even Mel and Ban at least have self-healing powers, while Diane got healed twice.

Nope not contradicting myself. We know both albion should be around the same level just like we know the sins should be about the same level.
Going by showings though, fat albion outclassed slim one just like Mel and King usually show the most impressive feats. Doesn't mean the others sins are not about the same level. That was your point, you said slim one showed more which I refuted.

The fat one met all the resistance. It was actually not allowed a single strike that was not countered or blocked. Like I said, merlin's barriers first, Camelot HK's next and Mel (with others chirping in) for all the others. Fat albion had everything to worry about. Slim one only had to bother about king, when the fairies jumped in, it dispatched them easily and no one was blocking its attacks on the FF.

Obviously king is not a weakling but his physical stats are not comparable to the other sins except merlin. King is a sin, they come tough even in their weakest stats. Diane supposedly has a weak spirit stat but just her spirit is higher than the average HK full stat (they have 300 she has 400+). We compare sins to each other because others don't match up to them.

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

King has actually shown a decent bit of speed through the series. He does not need his physical body to move, he flies around presumably using magic which presumably is his highest stat. He would be slow if he had to physically run somewhere.

True. His flying speed is right up there and while his running speed is slow, he doesn't need to use that so wrong example there. The point was that he isn't as physically capable/strong as the other sins (except Merlin probably) and yes I know his durability is respectable too. He is a sin after all.

 

[overlordpringerx]

fat albion didnt show that much power. The shield Merlin created was huge but that could also mean it's relatively weak, as it needs to cover a huge amount of space, so it probably wasnt very thick. That. And to the fire power of it's last five blasts I dont think they could be much more powerful than the others. I'ld give each of those Blasts around 1100 of power, since more blasts would also require it distribute that power. That would also explain how 5 low level holy knights were able to counter that. It also seems to me like the Albions never hold back. They punch with full force and blast with full power, though they might change it slightly, like the first Albion did (dividing the full-power-blast into five simultaneous attacks).
Now getting back to King, ever wondered why Mel was there when he got imprisoned?

 

[Demonspeed]

fat albion didnt show that much power. The shield Merlin created was huge but that could also mean it's relatively weak, as it needs to cover a huge amount of space, so it probably wasnt very thick. That. And to the fire power of it's last five blasts I dont think they could be much more powerful than the others. I'ld give each of those Blasts around 1100 of power, since more blasts would also require it distribute that power. That would also explain how 5 low level holy knights were able to counter that. It also seems to me like the Albions never hold back. They punch with full force and blast with full power, though they might change it slightly, like the first Albion did (dividing the full-power-blast into five simultaneous attacks).
Now getting back to King, ever wondered why Mel was there when he got imprisoned?

Merlin said herself that her barrier was weaker because of the range, but that's not what's more important. What's more important is that it was able to resist to the physical attack of the physically strongest creature up to date while weakened and without her barrier, this Albion would have destroyed the city, Fat Albion is easily above Diane in terms of physical strength and there is no way Slim Albion has more strength than the fat one.

More blasts don't necessarily require less power, they stopped the first energy balls but said themselves that they would have been unable to stop the second, which Meliodas reflected with his Full Counter, Full Counter makes the attack several times more powerful and it was fine after taking it.

The five reflected energy balls were powerful enough to destroy Albion so their combined powers was superior to the first one that Meliodas reflected, it was not only for range.

 

[overlordpringerx]

Merlin said herself that her barrier was weaker because of the range, but that's not what's more important. What's more important is that it was able to resist to the physical attack of the physically strongest creature up to date while weakened and without her barrier, this Albion would have destroyed the city, Fat Albion is easily above Diane in terms of physical strength and there is no way Slim Albion has more strength than the fat one.

More blasts don't necessarily require less power, they stopped the first energy balls but said themselves that they would have been unable to stop the second, which Meliodas reflected with his Full Counter, Full Counter makes the attack several times more powerful and it was fine after taking it.

The five reflected energy balls were powerful enough to destroy Albion so their combined powers was superior to the first one that Meliodas reflected, it was not only for range.

It was fine after taking ONE. And my point with the shield is, that breaking it wasnt that much of an impressive thing to do if it was weakened anyway. And assuming each Meliodas copy has a power level of 3000 then the combined force of the full counter with five 1100 level attacks would be 22000, so of course it got blown away even with a weak attack. My point is if the first Albion was stronger the second one would have more firepower. And that one was seen surviving an attack equal to it's blast too. I agree that they are both on the same level, I'm just sayin I personally find the slim one more intimidating.

 

[Demonspeed]

It was fine after taking ONE. And my point with the shield is, that breaking it wasnt that much of an impressive thing to do if it was weakened anyway. And assuming each Meliodas copy has a power level of 3000 then the combined force of the full counter with five 1100 level attacks would be 22000, so of course it got blown away even with a weak attack. My point is if the first Albion was stronger the second one would have more firepower. And that one was seen surviving an attack equal to it's blast too. I agree that they are both on the same level, I'm just sayin I personally find the slim one more intimidating.

Full Counter doesn't work like that. It reflects the power several times stronger, it doesn't add Meliodas's power to the attack, besides Meliodas's stat in Magic is 400.

Breaking it might not be impressive but the physical strength the barrier could block is above everyone so far, it shows that Merlin is a monster, she could have probably beat Albion alone too.

 

[kkck]

Full Counter doesn't work like that. It reflects the power several times stronger, it doesn't add Meliodas's power to the attack, besides Meliodas's stat in Magic is 400.

Breaking it might not be impressive but the physical strength the barrier could block is above everyone so far, it shows that Merlin is a monster, she could have probably beat Albion alone too.

Well, meliodas' own power has to come into the equation considering the weapon he has has an effect on the strength of the full countered attack. I am not entirely sure of how full counter works in regards to magic, realistically speaking neither meliodas' magic or strength is that high. Well, his strength kinda is but more than half of his stats come from spirit. And the returned attacks against albion were dramatically more powerful than when he full countered with liz's sword considering each managed to blow away a section of albion while the previous attack did not really do more than mildly inconveniencing it.

 

[overlordpringerx]

Full Counter doesn't work like that. It reflects the power several times stronger, it doesn't add Meliodas's power to the attack, besides Meliodas's stat in Magic is 400.

Breaking it might not be impressive but the physical strength the barrier could block is above everyone so far, it shows that Merlin is a monster, she could have probably beat Albion alone too.

that still overwhelms Albions power as the 5 full counters would have a combined minimum of 11000. And thats just because we dont know by how much the reflected attack is multiplied, so its probably even more. And I never doubted that Merlin was powerful, I just said that shield was bound to break eventually. Anyway, its pointless to discuss the Albions now, they are history.

 

[kkck]

I am not sure stats work in the way which is being suggested. I mean, if attacks just had a numerical number like then wouldn't the implication be that the number should be reduced from the total power level of the user of an attack? If each of the energy balls albion has has 1000 power and he used seven then it means it ran out of power 1.5 attacks ago. Assuming power works sort of like that then an attack, even from a sin, should not be above the 100 total in a single go. And even that would be heavily reliant on the weapon being used, without a weapon the attack would be significantly reduced. I mean, as far as we saw the amount of power jericho and guila could draw out with weapons comparable to sacred treasures was greater than the sins could do without weapons. And even then, strength itself probably does not run out like magic would...

 

[overlordpringerx]

I am not sure stats work in the way which is being suggested. I mean, if attacks just had a numerical number like then wouldn't the implication be that the number should be reduced from the total power level of the user of an attack? If each of the energy balls albion has has 1000 power and he used seven then it means it ran out of power 1.5 attacks ago. Assuming power works sort of like that then an attack, even from a sin, should not be above the 100 total in a single go. And even that would be heavily reliant on the weapon being used, without a weapon the attack would be significantly reduced. I mean, as far as we saw the amount of power jericho and guila could draw out with weapons comparable to sacred treasures was greater than the sins could do without weapons. And even then, strength itself probably does not run out like magic would...

Albions aren't living beings, so they probably don't get exhausted.

 

[kkck]

Albions aren't living beings, so they probably don't get exhausted.

That doesn't make a lot of sense, the implication would be that they have infinite energy. There should be a limit to how much it can do until its batteries need to recharge somehow.

 

[Holt]

They probably run out of juice after a while but also recharge easily.

I'm curious as to how many albions there are or there were during the war against the united clans.

 

[overlordpringerx]

That doesn't make a lot of sense, the implication would be that they have infinite energy. There should be a limit to how much it can do until its batteries need to recharge somehow.

thats not what I mean. I mean that as long as it has energy it can works with the same power all the time. Like a machine that will work the same all the time until it runs out. And energy isnt the same as power.

 

[Demonspeed]

Well, meliodas' own power has to come into the equation considering the weapon he has has an effect on the strength of the full countered attack. I am not entirely sure of how full counter works in regards to magic, realistically speaking neither meliodas' magic or strength is that high. Well, his strength kinda is but more than half of his stats come from spirit. And the returned attacks against albion were dramatically more powerful than when he full countered with liz's sword considering each managed to blow away a section of albion while the previous attack did not really do more than mildly inconveniencing it.

I don't see how the weapon would affect the reflected attack, at least it was never said, the five reflected attacks didn't appear to be stronger than the previous ones to me either, what was important was the number of attacks he countered. Full Counter reflects the attack several times stronger, so even if his Magic was 1 he would be able to reflect it, as long as the attack is energy based, to counter it you must use an attack like Gilthunder's.

that still overwhelms Albions power as the 5 full counters would have a combined minimum of 11000. And thats just because we dont know by how much the reflected attack is multiplied, so its probably even more. And I never doubted that Merlin was powerful, I just said that shield was bound to break eventually. Anyway, its pointless to discuss the Albions now, they are history.

You said to consider one blast as a magic with a power of 1100 and said the five blasts were weaker because he needed to disperse its attacks. It would mean that each of these blasts had a power of 220, that's far too weak, and since Meliodas stopped a energy ball previously the power of the reflected attack should have been the same. The only logical explantaion is that the five blasts were more powerful than the one he previously countered.