Discussion King

overlordpringerx

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
852
Reaction score
311
Age
31
Gender
Male
Country
Spain
I don't see how the weapon would affect the reflected attack, at least it was never said, the five reflected attacks didn't appear to be stronger than the previous ones to me either, what was important was the number of attacks he countered. Full Counter reflects the attack several times stronger, so even if his Magic was 1 he would be able to reflect it, as long as the attack is energy based, to counter it you must use an attack like Gilthunder's.



You said to consider one blast as a magic with a power of 1100 and said the five blasts were weaker because he needed to disperse its attacks. It would mean that each of these blasts had a power of 220, that's far too weak, and since Meliodas stopped a energy ball previously the power of the reflected attack should have been the same. The only logical explantaion is that the five blasts were more powerful than the one he previously countered.
No. I meant each blast had 1100 in the last attack. Multiplied by 5 thats 5500. I didnt say they had 1100 combined. And that gets multiplied by at least 2 with full counter, which gives the reflected attack 11000 of power.

---------- Post added March 23, 2015 at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was March 20, 2015 at 04:43 PM ----------

ok guys. We now know that King was able to at least for a split second surpass the 10000 mark. How much do you think will it be later in the manga?
 
Last edited:

Holt

#1 Ranker
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
8,036
Reaction score
8,321
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
If he can maintain and control his activated ST, he could hover around the 15k mark imo. He was injured and pretty tired when he used it. It'll be a lot more than that later on. I'm guessing most of them would cross the 20/25k threshold in due time. It might sound ridiculous but if they don't reach atleast that, they'll be annihilated by the commandments.
 

overlordpringerx

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
852
Reaction score
311
Age
31
Gender
Male
Country
Spain
If he can maintain and control his activated ST, he could hover around the 15k mark imo. He was injured and pretty tired when he used it. It'll be a lot more than that later on. I'm guessing most of them would cross the 20/25k threshold in due time. It might sound ridiculous but if they don't reach atleast that, they'll be annihilated by the commandments.
they will need way more than that. Galin has 26k and thats only part of his full power!
 

Holt

#1 Ranker
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
8,036
Reaction score
8,321
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
they will need way more than that. Galin has 26k and thats only part of his full power!
Probably but I'm trying to be realistic. A jump from 3/4k to that is pretty difficult to imagine.
Actually, its not part of his full power...its none. He's apparently completely depleted.
 

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Probably but I'm trying to be realistic. A jump from 3/4k to that is pretty difficult to imagine.
Actually, its not part of his full power...its none. He's apparently completely depleted.
Maybe that just means the Sins have just been getting by using a 1/50 or so of their own power? That's a new possibility given the new levels. Maybe everyone has the potential to reach as high as the hundred thousands, but due to various circumstances, they level out at a lower number? What if it's revealed that, back during the time of the war, that was the standard? Or at least, close to it, with the demons still being a bit stronger, which brought up the necessity of them being sealed? I'm just spitballing here, but something needs to be explained because these power levels are making things needlessly complicated.
 

Holt

#1 Ranker
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
8,036
Reaction score
8,321
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
Maybe that just means the Sins have just been getting by using a 1/50 or so of their own power? That's a new possibility given the new levels. Maybe everyone has the potential to reach as high as the hundred thousands, but due to various circumstances, they level out at a lower number? What if it's revealed that, back during the time of the war, that was the standard? Or at least, close to it, with the demons still being a bit stronger, which brought up the necessity of them being sealed? I'm just spitballing here, but something needs to be explained because these power levels are making things needlessly complicated.
Perhaps. Normally there's a naturally imposed limit on characters as 'safety measures' for the body (quite usual in manga). Its either they unlock or realize some hidden potential or they get a boost some other way. Mel should be fine once he can properly use and control his demon powers (probably connected to what Merlin took from him). King also seems to be in a similar situation. For these two, we already know there's some form of limiter on them or we can atleast see plausible scenarios where they get such a boost. Its not so clear cut for the others though. Maybe the goddess clan would help out here.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,270
Reaction score
24,911
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
Maybe that just means the Sins have just been getting by using a 1/50 or so of their own power? That's a new possibility given the new levels. Maybe everyone has the potential to reach as high as the hundred thousands, but due to various circumstances, they level out at a lower number? What if it's revealed that, back during the time of the war, that was the standard? Or at least, close to it, with the demons still being a bit stronger, which brought up the necessity of them being sealed? I'm just spitballing here, but something needs to be explained because these power levels are making things needlessly complicated.
That sounds a tad unlikely to me... Safe for meliodas who usually holds back his demon powers. Eventually the sins have to up their game to that sort of power levels somehow though. As for the power of the demons being the standard, that sounds unlikely too. The demons were sealed by 4 different clans 3000 years ago. If it took that much to seal them then it kinda makes sense that they are this strong. It does look like even the stronger people of the remaining clans are not at the required level. Diane and king are presumably among the stronger people of their race and they are nowhere near a powerless demon. No human comes close to the power of a demon too, if anything humans don't even come close to the power of the sins. Ban and escanor are supposedly human but even then they are not quite that.
 

Demonspeed

The Bull
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Global Moderator
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
47,655
Reaction score
61,353
Gender
Male
Country
France
That sounds a tad unlikely to me... Safe for meliodas who usually holds back his demon powers. Eventually the sins have to up their game to that sort of power levels somehow though. As for the power of the demons being the standard, that sounds unlikely too. The demons were sealed by 4 different clans 3000 years ago. If it took that much to seal them then it kinda makes sense that they are this strong. It does look like even the stronger people of the remaining clans are not at the required level. Diane and king are presumably among the stronger people of their race and they are nowhere near a powerless demon. No human comes close to the power of a demon too, if anything humans don't even come close to the power of the sins. Ban and escanor are supposedly human but even then they are not quite that.
You are forgetting Zaratras, hopefully we will get a long flashback arc about him.

I agree that it couldn't have been the standard. The Commandments are the elite of the Demon clan, King was feared before and he was still in the 3000, he has never faced a top class Demon before and collapsed against Albion. Even with his 11000 he is way below their level.

With the exceptions of the Commandments and the Demon King, the Sins should be able to beat all the other Demons.
 

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
That sounds a tad unlikely to me... Safe for meliodas who usually holds back his demon powers. Eventually the sins have to up their game to that sort of power levels somehow though. As for the power of the demons being the standard, that sounds unlikely too. The demons were sealed by 4 different clans 3000 years ago. If it took that much to seal them then it kinda makes sense that they are this strong. It does look like even the stronger people of the remaining clans are not at the required level. Diane and king are presumably among the stronger people of their race and they are nowhere near a powerless demon. No human comes close to the power of a demon too, if anything humans don't even come close to the power of the sins. Ban and escanor are supposedly human but even then they are not quite that.
As I said, I was just spitballing. I personally like if the potential was in everyone to reach a high level, you just need to bring it out or something to bring it out. What I'm afraid of is that those who are fighting will be given the power (potentially by the goddess clan), rather than bringing out their own. It's unlikely, but it's a fear.

As for the standard, my train of thought was that, because it was a time of war, people were naturally on edge and their natural power adapted to the threat at the time. But with the threat gone, their power level dropped down to where it is now. Now that it's back, it's possible that they will begin to grow again to face the threat. I didn't even think about it, but the faeries might have been an example of this, with them becoming lazy and, as a result weaker, despite their ancestors having fought against the demons in the past. I would hate the think faeries were getting slaughtered en masse during the war like they were against the Albion. They had to have been at a high level. Unless, it's going to be revealed that their were Seven Sins during that time.

I don't know, I just want a believable increase in power for everyone.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 AM ----------

I agree that it couldn't have been the standard. The Commandments are the elite of the Demon clan, King was feared before and he was still in the 3000, he has never faced a top class Demon before and collapsed against Albion. Even with his 11000 he is way below their level.

With the exceptions of the Commandments and the Demon King, the Sins should be able to beat all the other Demons.
I shouldn't have said standard. I think the levels of the clans in the past may have higher than they are presently.

The Sins should, but we also need to take into account that they won't be the only ones fighting. Other people are also going to need to get stronger because this isn't something the Sins are going to be able to do on their own.
 
Last edited:

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,270
Reaction score
24,911
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
You are forgetting Zaratras, hopefully we will get a long flashback arc about him.

I agree that it couldn't have been the standard. The Commandments are the elite of the Demon clan, King was feared before and he was still in the 3000, he has never faced a top class Demon before and collapsed against Albion. Even with his 11000 he is way below their level.

With the exceptions of the Commandments and the Demon King, the Sins should be able to beat all the other Demons.
Well, the implication when it comes to zarathras was that the sins were stronger than him. While in gowther's illusion hendrickson did point out only the sins could go up against zarathras and we do know the actual hendrickson felt within meliodas power far beyond that of zarathras thanks to his druid heritage. All in all, to me it looks unlikely that zarathras would really be as strong as the sins. Even hendrickson and dreyfus ten years after did not seem to really match up to any of them. Dreyfus did beat diane but even in that scenario we can make the case that things would have been slightly different had diane not taken a combined attack from gilthunder, hauser and helbram, 3 people whom the manga has referred to as GHK class.

Also worth noting, even the red demon proved to be insanely powerful. Ban was probably already at the 3000 level when he fought the red demon and even then he had a lot of difficulty with it. He did kinda let his guard down but its not like it was an instant victory once he got his immortality. And red demons are only foot soldiers... I don't think the situation is as easy as "sins should be able to beat all other demons"... They are all insanely powerful, there is a reason it took the goddess, fairy, giant and human clans to seal them. The 10 commandments are at the top of the demon world however if the weakest demons have a fraction of the power of the 10 commandments its still an insane amount of power. If the weakest demons have 10 times less power than a commandment as far as we know that would still be a respectable 2600, which is above the current generation of GHKs apparently. If they are 100 times weaker than a commandment then their powerful would still be 260, pretty close to the minimum to be a holy knight in liones.

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

As I said, I was just spitballing. I personally like if the potential was in everyone to reach a high level, you just need to bring it out or something to bring it out. What I'm afraid of is that those who are fighting will be given the power (potentially by the goddess clan), rather than bringing out their own. It's unlikely, but it's a fear.

As for the standard, my train of thought was that, because it was a time of war, people were naturally on edge and their natural power adapted to the threat at the time. But with the threat gone, their power level dropped down to where it is now. Now that it's back, it's possible that they will begin to grow again to face the threat. I didn't even think about it, but the faeries might have been an example of this, with them becoming lazy and, as a result weaker, despite their ancestors having fought against the demons in the past. I would hate the think faeries were getting slaughtered en masse during the war like they were against the Albion. They had to have been at a high level. Unless, it's going to be revealed that their were Seven Sins during that time.

I don't know, I just want a believable increase in power for everyone.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 AM ----------



I shouldn't have said standard. I think the levels of the clans in the past may have higher than they are presently.

The Sins should, but we also need to take into account that they won't be the only ones fighting. Other people are also going to need to get stronger because this isn't something the Sins are going to be able to do on their own.
Well, if there were people in the clans that could have opposed the demons then there wouldn't have been a need for them to gang up on them like that. The manga has made the point that the goddess, fairy and giant clan did diminish from what they were. However it was not because of peace, it is the result of the war from back then. Well, with fairies it seems like there was something like that though. On the other hand with humans the situation is different, they seem to have increased in power over the past 3000 years. Human warriors won't compare to the top of the other clans but they do have numbers. Odds are there are several kingdoms with each having several hundred holy knights.
 

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Well, if there were people in the clans that could have opposed the demons then there wouldn't have been a need for them to gang up on them like that. The manga has made the point that the goddess, fairy and giant clan did diminish from what they were. However it was not because of peace, it is the result of the war from back then. Well, with fairies it seems like there was something like that though. On the other hand with humans the situation is different, they seem to have increased in power over the past 3000 years. Human warriors won't compare to the top of the other clans but they do have numbers. Odds are there are several kingdoms with each having several hundred holy knights.
Like I said, I shouldn't have used the word "standard", but I think that they were stronger than they are currently being portrayed as, because if the fae were as strong as they were in the last chapter, I would think they would have been completely wiped out, despite the assistance from other clans. I also thought that the clans had been thinned out because of the war, but lately, I've been thinking that something else might have contributed to. The newly awakened commandments seemed surprised by the low number of the other clans, sans humans, which leads me to believe that, despite the war, at the time of the demons sealing, the other clans still had a large number around. Fraudrin just says they loss influence and power, but he doesn't specify why or how.
 
Last edited:

lightningsha

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
133
Reaction score
120
Country
United States
Not sure where to put this but here might do. Most of this conjecture applies to Giants as well, but since we have more info about fairies, I'll focus on them.

I've been wondering something about the fairy population and how hopelessly weak they seem. I'm assuming 3000+ years ago they had way more power and influence judging by what the Commandments commented on. Obviously they were never as strong as demons, but I'm thinking they had considerable magic and might as a fairy army back then. Enough to not be completely obliterated as a race by the demons in one battle. This would put more fairies around at least at the 3-4k power level.
Now besides the Fairy King, only Helbram and maybe Gerhade have notable might. The rest seem like complete fodder, perhaps almost as powerless as normal human citizens. So what happened to all the fairy powerhouses?

Now to the actual fairy numbers. It's hard to gauge how many fairies there really are and whether they've been depleted somehow to record lows recently for reasons I can't think of. At first I thought most of the population was killed off during the war, but since the Commandments assumed there would be more of them, I'm guessing no.

From what we've seen of fairies in the Fairy King Forest, a low population seems to be the case. But what about the Fairy Realm? From flashbacks we know the fairies also live there and not just in the Forest. The Fairy Realm is way more vast than the forest and I'm beginning to think perhaps the Fairy King Forest just holds a small community of fairies, and that there may be way more unaccounted for fairies in the Realm, and more powerful fairies who choose to stay there. Perhaps the population did fall, but perhaps what the demons meant by influence was their presence in the human world. Maybe too many fairies retreated back to their own world and that they are not on the verge of extinction or anything. Only the Forest/Gateway seems to be in a depleted state from events we already know of.

I'm hoping this is the case because it's a bit sad to see only King being the only powerful force of his entire clan. Hopefully we'll be seeing more unique types of fairies and giants hold their own in battle.
 

overlordpringerx

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
852
Reaction score
311
Age
31
Gender
Male
Country
Spain
Not sure where to put this but here might do. Most of this conjecture applies to Giants as well, but since we have more info about fairies, I'll focus on them.

I've been wondering something about the fairy population and how hopelessly weak they seem. I'm assuming 3000+ years ago they had way more power and influence judging by what the Commandments commented on. Obviously they were never as strong as demons, but I'm thinking they had considerable magic and might as a fairy army back then. Enough to not be completely obliterated as a race by the demons in one battle. This would put more fairies around at least at the 3-4k power level.
Now besides the Fairy King, only Helbram and maybe Gerhade have notable might. The rest seem like complete fodder, perhaps almost as powerless as normal human citizens. So what happened to all the fairy powerhouses?

Now to the actual fairy numbers. It's hard to gauge how many fairies there really are and whether they've been depleted somehow to record lows recently for reasons I can't think of. At first I thought most of the population was killed off during the war, but since the Commandments assumed there would be more of them, I'm guessing no.

From what we've seen of fairies in the Fairy King Forest, a low population seems to be the case. But what about the Fairy Realm? From flashbacks we know the fairies also live there and not just in the Forest. The Fairy Realm is way more vast than the forest and I'm beginning to think perhaps the Fairy King Forest just holds a small community of fairies, and that there may be way more unaccounted for fairies in the Realm, and more powerful fairies who choose to stay there. Perhaps the population did fall, but perhaps what the demons meant by influence was their presence in the human world. Maybe too many fairies retreated back to their own world and that they are not on the verge of extinction or anything. Only the Forest/Gateway seems to be in a depleted state from events we already know of.

I'm hoping this is the case because it's a bit sad to see only King being the only powerful force of his entire clan. Hopefully we'll be seeing more unique types of fairies and giants hold their own in battle.
I doubt it was 3k but I do believe they had power around the same level as a holy knight.
 

Holt

#1 Ranker
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
8,036
Reaction score
8,321
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
I'm nor sure regular HK power would have made a difference. They would have had to have atleast diamond/GHK level IMO. Basically about 1500+ for those participating in the fight. Even that seems too low
 

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Oh snap, Holt done evolved into a mod. Congrats.

I think if there were enough fighters with a 900-1000 level, they could do well enough. This might be a case where it's quantity over quality. The faeries seem to prefer fighting together as a group rather than alone anyway. Hell, even Helbram's power involves using the power of other to fight with at it's core.
 

Holt

#1 Ranker
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
8,036
Reaction score
8,321
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
Oh snap, Holt done evolved into a mod. Congrats.
Thanks :D

I think if there were enough fighters with a 900-1000 level, they could do well enough. This might be a case where it's quantity over quality. The faeries seem to prefer fighting together as a group rather than alone anyway. Hell, even Helbram's power involves using the power of other to fight with at it's core.
About 1000 level seems fair for the lower ranked demons (like red) especially if there were teams as well (with the other clans). Still that much seems just enough for reds, grays and albions might require more as there would have been quite a number around. Seeing how the commandments referred to albion as old rusty toys, its possible there are also higher and stronger demons than those so just 1000 might not be enough. Demon Hendricksen (at 5,500) could do enough to practically wipe out liones HKs.
 

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
About 1000 level seems fair for the lower ranked demons (like red) especially if there were teams as well (with the other clans). Still that much seems just enough for reds, grays and albions might require more as there would have been quite a number around. Seeing how the commandments referred to albion as old rusty toys, its possible there are also higher and stronger demons than those so just 1000 might not be enough. Demon Hendricksen (at 5,500) could do enough to practically wipe out liones HKs.
Maybe they also had inventions that helped fight off the demons and what not. Considering the Goddess clan had a seal that was powerful enough to wipe out Hendricksen's grey blood and, potentially, Fraudrin, it's possible that their assistance allowed the other clans to face off against the demons more evenly. Every clan must have added some sort of advantage during the war. Maybe Giants created their own Golems that were capable of fending off Albions?
 

Holt

#1 Ranker
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
8,036
Reaction score
8,321
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
^^ Hmm, giants creating golems able to match albion seems a bit too powerful. Well, if they could create lots of decently powerful ones so the golems gang up on albion, its a bit realistic I guess. Perhaps the goddess clan used enchantments on them as well.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,270
Reaction score
24,911
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
I don't really get the impression the red demon had a measly 1000 for power. Ban might have been mortal at the time but his power should have still been considerable, probably even comparable to what it is now. In that regard, a more than respectable above 3000. Now, would it make sense that ban had all that trouble with the red demon if its power was only 1000? If the power of a red demon was only that then I would think he would have been an easy victory for ban. Just look at what meliodas did to dodget who had 860. 140 can make a reasonably high difference but even them, would it make sense for the demon to have that kind of power? To a sin armed with a normal weapon 1000 should be just about worthless, an overwhelmingly easy victory. I'd argue that the red demon we saw had at the very least about as much, if not more, power than ban which would easily put it above the 3000 mark. Otherwise it does not make sense for ban to have had trouble fighting it even as a mortal.
 

Demonspeed

The Bull
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Global Moderator
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
47,655
Reaction score
61,353
Gender
Male
Country
France
I don't think the Fairies have weakened, they are as strong as they were but got too used to peace. Only King was noted to be particularly powerful. Helbram is somewhat strong but he is nothing compared to King.

I don't really get the impression the red demon had a measly 1000 for power. Ban might have been mortal at the time but his power should have still been considerable, probably even comparable to what it is now. In that regard, a more than respectable above 3000. Now, would it make sense that ban had all that trouble with the red demon if its power was only 1000? If the power of a red demon was only that then I would think he would have been an easy victory for ban. Just look at what meliodas did to dodget who had 860. 140 can make a reasonably high difference but even them, would it make sense for the demon to have that kind of power? To a sin armed with a normal weapon 1000 should be just about worthless, an overwhelmingly easy victory. I'd argue that the red demon we saw had at the very least about as much, if not more, power than ban which would easily put it above the 3000 mark. Otherwise it does not make sense for ban to have had trouble fighting it even as a mortal.
Ban had no trouble with the Red Demon at all. He appeared, he stole his hear in one move, dropped his guard, the Demon injured Elaine and injured Ban who was rushing at her.
 
Last edited:
Top