Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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piau9000

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Ranking - VOL 35

1 - Assassination Classroom
2 - Straighten Up
3 - PSI Kusou Saiki
4 - Black Clover
5 - Hinomaru Zumou
6 - Food Wars
7 - Gintama
8 - Nisekoi
9 - Toriko
10 - World Trigger
11 - Kagamigami
12 - Kochikame
13 - Lady Justice
14 - Bleach
15 - Devily Man



Average ranking of 2015 - VOL 35

"+" means that the series ended or moved to another magazine.

One Piece - 1.73
Assassination Classroom - 1.95
My Hero Academia - 2.37
Straighten Up - 3.66
Haikyuu - 3.83
Food Wars - 3.96
Black Clover - 4.41
Hinomaru Zumou - 5.96
Toriko - 6.48
Gintama - 6.85
PSI Kusou Saiki - 7.06
Nisekoi - 8.4
World Trigger - 8.77
Kagamigami - 9.2
+Gakkyuu Houtei - 11.15
Kochikame - 11.19
Bleach - 11.42
+Ultra Battle Satellite - 11.9
+Judos - 12
Devily Man - 12.33
+Takujou no Ageha - 12.33
+Hi-Fi Cluster - 12.71
Lady Justice - 13
+Cyborg Roggy - 13.5
+E-Robot - 13.5
+Sporting Salt - 13.5
 

Unok

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Ninjas, ninjas powers in general and ninjas with wind powers(elements) is highly common. In the beginning of the anime industry, Toei did an anime about that called: Boy Ninja Fujimaru of the Wind, and that was done in 1964. https://youtu.be/RoGR_f5qL2M?t=20s
For what I saw from Ninku the main character in fact has a mother still alive. Fujimaki is the same thing.
I know it's a common, just like all fire powers, positions and whatnot. Its just funny how they say X series took something from Y series, while Y series took it from Z series, etc. And they are not complaining that Y took it from Z, but only that X took it from Y and in the same time putting Y series on high pedestal.


About World Trigger and Toriko, the comparison is all wrong. First World Trigger airs at 6:30 a.m while Toriko was in the Dream 9/Big 9 timeslot(9 a.m). Second World Trigger is having another anime in October after 50 episodes(1 year), Toriko already had 147 episodes(3 years). Another anime of Toriko is not comparable of another anime of World Trigger right now.

Also note that World Trigger rankings in the Magazine are due to the author health problems. This was already officially clarified.
No, comparison is perfectly fine. Because both are Toei anime (otherwise no comparisons should ever be made, because they are all "wrong"). Yes, WT had 1 year anime, but that's because the anime started too early, while there was not enough material. It's only natural that it couldn't run for more than an year, yet it gets a 2nd ORIGINAL anime.

I don't believe it, I haven't seen it either that "official clarification". If the author was sick, they shouldn't have started the series then, because WT as far I remember is low from the beginning, not after some point. And being sick, thus being placed low is ridiculous. Yes it may take some break, but so do OP, why isn't OP low? Obviously because less people are voting for WT. It can get couple of low positions due to the health, but not all the time, as that wouldn't explain why it's high sometimes if it's purposely put low.



About Toriko coming after Dragon Ball Super. Toei by that time will have 3 options: Toriko, Old Epic series(Gegege no Kitaro, Dr. Slump, ...), new popular series(My Hero Academia with around 150 chapters by that time, Black Clover with around 120 chapter by that time, ...). Toriko is most probably not the best option they have, so hardly will it return after DBS.
And there is no guarantee that they will take My Hero Academia or Black Clover. Pierrot and other studios also can get those, especially after Pierrot is about to lose Naruto in those next 2 years. And also those both can also easily air in the 6:30 time slot too. Toriko anime will return, be sure of that.

Dream 9 for years aired only DB, OP and Toriko. My Hero Academia doesn't feel like those series; Black Clover so far have better chance.




Well toriko's anime itself didn't really do that well now either. Sure ratings were okay but DVD sales-wise it didn't even sell 900 per volume other than the first one (or 2nd. Cant recollect). And the movie itself sold less DVD's than say what Bleach's anime volumes sold at it's lowest state i.e less than 1500k. Those are really poor numbers tbh. Also take in the fact that they severely changed the end of that battle.
And the difference between Toriko and WT is that Toriko was marketed a lot more than WT with its collaborations with Dragon Ball, One Piece and whatnot. WT, on the other hand, is clearly a low budget series.
Do I need to give you now examples of how anime that didn't sell that much DVDs, still got more anime? And for Toriko's case, if they though it was thaaat poor, they wouldn't have made it for 3 years, but ended it at first year, where they for sure know already the DVD sales. Also DVD sales are not the only income and majority of the anime sells poorly. There are also Rental DVDs for Toriko, do you have any data on that? And how much did WT DVD's sold?

They changed the end of the battle, to have some kind of epic end as if it has ended like the manga, it wouldn't be very "epic" or big battle. They also seemingly had to aim for certain episodes numbers, otherwise they would have needed more episodes to do it like in the manga. Yet they still connected it to the story that follows after that. So that's not really a problem for a continuation.

Your reason for something not getting anime so far are: low ToC, low sales of manga/dvd. Yet history has proved that sometimes that doesn't matter.

Toriko was marketed with collaborations, because it was easily to do so (authors were friends and in the past OP and DB had manga collaboration too). It have some resembles with OP and DB, it also took the old DB timeslot. If WT had similar setting to some of those or their other property, they could have got one too. And by your words it means one thing: Toei care more for Toriko than for WT. And if they make another WT anime, why wouldn't they do it for Toriko?

Bleach anime also sold poorly both manga and DVD wise at the end of the anime and now, compared to it's past sales. It also have poor ToC positions. Yet it will also received new anime, once the manga gets closer to the end. Because it's not only manga sales and ToC positions that define what will get anime and what not. (I'm only involving bleach, because you involved it first).
 

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Toriko anime was cancelled because the movie was box office failure... At this point there will never be another Toriko anime.. They didnt even finished slam dumk.
Btw Ashihara hurt his neck before the start of the anime. It was at that time that he started taking breaks. For now he had 6-7 just for this year.
btw this is the tweet for world trigger being in the back of the magazine
 
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piau9000

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Anyway guys, Just look at this example.
Pay attention to how the Naruto fans are defending it, even though some things are very blatanty.
The exact kind of fans that are complaining about Black Clover now.

To put a stone to this I remembered a chapter of Gintama when it mocks the complete lack of originality in shonen. Yet some people still thinks that their favourite manga is original, and that everything that comes after it is a plagiarism.

10 years from now, some new series will be created and Blak Clover fans will bash it for lack of originality, just like how DB fans bashed One Piece and Naruto and how the formers are bashing Black Clover now.
The story repeats itself...
 

Unok

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Toriko anime was cancelled because the movie was box office failure... At this point there will never be another Toriko anime.. They didnt even finished slam dumk.
Btw Ashihara hurt his neck before the start of the anime. It was at that time that he started taking breaks. For now he had 6-7 just for this year.
btw this is the tweet for world trigger being in the back of the magazine
Yeah, it totally didn't had anything to do with the fact that after episode 147 there were 10 more manga chapters. Totally nothing to do with that. Absolutely nothing. Guess if the movie was "mega success" they would have adapted the next 10 chapters too and then what? 3 years of fillers? XD Ridiculous. Not to mention how "smart" is to cancel TV anime, because it's movie wasn't a box success XD In such cases, they simply stop making new movies, not stopping the TV anime >.> Guess if some new OP movie fails, they will cancel the anime too XD

And as far I'm understanding by that tweet (my moon language isn't perfect), it tells that sometimes it's at the back due to the health (which is understandable), not all the time. Not to mention this is from May 2015 and it doesn't excuse its low ToC positions that was taking since it started. Otherwise as I said earlier, there would be no explanation on why sometimes it is high if it had a fixed position at the bottom. OP also takes lots of breaks, but still ranks high.
 
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vampire killer

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Episode 147 cover so many chapter cos they just gave up on Toriko. The whole arc was too fast in the anime. They skip a lot off stuff. And if Toriko was successful enough they would have made filler. Gintama movie was success and becouse of thet we have a new seoson.
 

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Could it be tha Lady Justice is given the ToLoveRu treatment?
 

piau9000

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Could it be tha Lady Justice is given the ToLoveRu treatment?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that, of all shonens magazines, Jump has the most young readers.
This explains why a echi manga is not well received.

---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

About World Trigger, I did a average ranking of it some time ago and it turned out that, since the beginning, it was ranking at 10-13 position.
So I doubt that it's been placed at the end due to sickness.
 

Txapeldun

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that, of all shonens magazines, Jump has the most young readers.
This explains why a echi manga is not well received.
ToLoveRu was well recieved. It polled poorly because kids were ashamed to vote for it. But the editorial department takes that into account I guess.
 

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No, they didn't gave up on Toriko, unless you have any actual proof on that. They had either end it there or continue for at least 1 more year. They can't just make 5 more episodes. Either they do full cour or not and seeing how their operated for Toriko it wasn't just a cour, but they continue for a year. Like they announced that Toriko was getting a 2nd year, then a 3rd year for the anime. The arc was with fast pace in the manga too, so? And it doesn't really matter if it's 10, 20 or even 30 chapters. There is not enough material for a new 150 episodes and that will require years of fillers or end it after some Gourmet World arc, thus ending it at Human World arc was the best place to end Part 1. And for those 150 episodes, Toriko almost didn't had fillers, why would they make years of fillers? They are not making fillers for One Piece too. Filler arcs are usually more bad receipted and sells even poorer. There is not much logic to create 2-3 years of filler, unless the show is a mega seller. Filler is not always the solution. Why didn't FT continue with fillers? Why didn't Bleach continue with fillers? Why didn't Gintama continue with fillers? Etc And if the movie wasn't box hit, then that means people are not much interested in filler stories for Toriko, but in the main story. Then making years of fillers would be a stupid decision.

Gintama had 3 anime series before the movie XD It was obviously getting a 4th and that's not because of the movie. Not to mention Gintama is by Sunrise, not Toei.
 

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Toei just gave up dude..... They wont make another toriko seson just face it.. And the newest gintama seson is becouse of the movie. Watch episode one.
 

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Unok you're in negation.

Gash Bell was more popular than Toriko and also ended in 3 years with original ending. It missed 11 volumes and till now there is no continuation in sight.

Slam Dunk was one of Toei's 3 most popular titles with Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball and ended in 2.5 years with original ending. It missed 9 volumes and till now there is no continuation sight.

Also the Dream 9 didn't was only of One Piece, Dragon Ball and Toriko. Before Dragon Ball Kai it was Gegege no Kitaro in its place, and before Kitaro Digimon Savers and before Savers Gash Bell, and before Gash Bell Digimon, from Adventure 1 to Frontier. A new series would totally fit the block.
Also after Dragon Ball Super the new series doesn't have to be from Weekly Shonen Jump, it can be of any other magazine(Example: Gash Bell from Sunday) or even an original series(Example: Digimon).

The probabilities of Toriko anime continuing are really slim!
 

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Toei just gave up dude..... They wont make another toriko seson just face it.. And the newest gintama seson is becouse of the movie. Watch episode one.
Okay, when Toriko new anime starts after 2 years, I will rub it in your face in the other forum. And Gintama movie was in 2013, the new anime is in 2015. It's obviosuly not because of it, no matter they made a joke about it in the first episode, that doesn't mean it's because of it.

You fail to understand that a show usually try to ends in very entertaining moment, so that the viewers can kept until the new season starts. If Toriko adapted the last chapters of Human World arc, it would have been a boring drama. And all that after and epic revelations and fight. It was only natural that they would prefer ending it at the epic revelations and fights, instead of making the drama and Toriko feeling sad for 2-3 eps. Then people would have been complaining how stupid the show ended.


Bigivelfhq
Why are you giving me examples of shows with ORIGINAL ending? Toriko didn't had original ending, it was connected to the manga and ended where the first part of Toriko manga ended. They only changed the fights, but kept outcome and all quite similar. But they changed so that they can make it more "big/epic/etc" and still went back on track at the end.

Naturally other shows also aired in that time slot (it's not like it was created after OP started), but as far I know it was after DB and OP started airing together when they started referring to it as Dream 9. And until now I haven't seen any other Dream 9 logo that feature different series that OP with DB or OP with Toriko. Show me a logo with Dream 9 with different series than those 3 please?

Naturally (again) it doesn't. But it also doesn't mean it can't be Toriko. The probabilities are not slim at all, as obviously the show ended because it catched up to the manga and was ideal for an end. As I'm seeing you are basing them on other shows who had original ending being not continued.

And for Slam Dunk, there are probably author related issues. Because as far I know, because of him there is no Vagabond or Real anime yet. And if it was original ending, it's only natural that even to this day there is no sight of continuation. Just like there is no sight for continuation of Claymore and other shows who had ORIGINAL ending.
 

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I`ll be waithing for it. And for Gintama movie the director said that if it did good they will make more. The movie was supposed to be end of the anime.
 

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The Toriko anime was very obviously pushed hard just like the manga. If the series did like how it did without these collaborations and stuff with One Piece and Dragon Ball, I'd have called it a good success. But from all these collaborations and resources that were put into it, it was obvious that Toei and WSJ wanted Toriko to be the next big thing. It didn't become the next big thing. The anime got it's own opening song made specially for it. Before it aired, it featured with Luffy in a special episode. There was that 3D movie with One Piece, the collaboration episode with Luffy and Goku. The anime was pushed really really hard. I'm sorry but a 1.5 million return for a movie after all this is just below average at the very best.

Also, another big factor; Toriko's manga sales declined even in 2013, the year it had possibly everything going for it (anime, movie, games, manga with around 4-6 Covers and Lead CPs in the magazine and whatnot). If all those elements couldn't keep the sales at least steady, if not increase it, then nothing ever will. So, I'm sorry to say this but Toriko's anime returning is really really doubtful.

Heck, Bleach was TV TOKYO's top 3 earners in 2013, it's movies did decently and the movie DVD's always outsold Naruto movies. When the anime ended, the manga sold 650k at the bare minimum. And 3 years in and we still haven't seen any news about the anime returning. Why would Toriko?

And yeah, Gintama's new anime is definitely because of the success of that movie. That and possibly because Gintama might actually be ending in a year or so.

And no, the death of a major character in Toriko and the events that caused it and followed it were not shown in the anime. THAT is not keeping things "quite similar". IMO, that death and everything that revolved around that death made the series much more intriguing. If they were gonna continue the anime, they would have ended it with the death because that makes people want to see what happens next. It would have been THE cliffhanger to keep everyone intrigued.
 

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Toriko, Bleach, etc... are too popular to be considered dead. Toriko still sells a lot.
Just look at this summer season. Some of the new animes are based on mangas that don't sell a tenth of what toriko does.
But they still got a anime.

Let's not forget HxH anime revival. I remember a lot of people saying that there would never be a continuation to the anime.
I bet that, when Bleach or Toriko anime returns, it's gonna be a new studio and it will be retold from the beginning.
 

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I bet that, when Bleach or Toriko anime returns, it's gonna be a new studio and it will be retold from the beginning.
Well, that's a different story altogether then. We are talking about continuation of an anime that has ended. I'm all for having Bleach and Toriko redone again. Toriko, in fact, could use it more than Bleach given how children friendly the anime was.
 

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Well, that's a different story altogether then. We are talking about continuation of an anime that has ended. I'm all for having Bleach and Toriko redone again. Toriko, in fact, could use it more than Bleach given how children friendly the anime was.
Both could.
Bleach has the worst fillers ever... XD
 

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Okay, when Toriko new anime starts after 2 years, I will rub it in your face in the other forum. And Gintama movie was in 2013, the new anime is in 2015. It's obviosuly not because of it, no matter they made a joke about it in the first episode, that doesn't mean it's because of it.

You fail to understand that a show usually try to ends in very entertaining moment, so that the viewers can kept until the new season starts. If Toriko adapted the last chapters of Human World arc, it would have been a boring drama. And all that after and epic revelations and fight. It was only natural that they would prefer ending it at the epic revelations and fights, instead of making the drama and Toriko feeling sad for 2-3 eps. Then people would have been complaining how stupid the show ended.


Bigivelfhq
Why are you giving me examples of shows with ORIGINAL ending? Toriko didn't had original ending, it was connected to the manga and ended where the first part of Toriko manga ended. They only changed the fights, but kept outcome and all quite similar. But they changed so that they can make it more "big/epic/etc" and still went back on track at the end.

Naturally other shows also aired in that time slot (it's not like it was created after OP started), but as far I know it was after DB and OP started airing together when they started referring to it as Dream 9. And until now I haven't seen any other Dream 9 logo that feature different series that OP with DB or OP with Toriko. Show me a logo with Dream 9 with different series than those 3 please?

Naturally (again) it doesn't. But it also doesn't mean it can't be Toriko. The probabilities are not slim at all, as obviously the show ended because it catched up to the manga and was ideal for an end. As I'm seeing you are basing them on other shows who had original ending being not continued.

And for Slam Dunk, there are probably author related issues. Because as far I know, because of him there is no Vagabond or Real anime yet. And if it was original ending, it's only natural that even to this day there is no sight of continuation. Just like there is no sight for continuation of Claymore and other shows who had ORIGINAL ending.
Both Gash Bell and Slam Dunk original endings are like Toriko!

Dream 9 is the name of the Block and his changing all the time, it just means that is a big block at 9 a.m. Since Dragon Ball Kai buu saga that the block is called Strong 9.
The only reason why you don't know the name of the block before Dragon Ball Kai is because we don't have the video source from the Japanese TV stream for Gegege no Kitaro and One Piece(most streams we get from One Piece are from Funimation that don't have the logo of dream 9 or strong 9).

Did you saw my previous post where I put Toriko Toei's reported Sales? Since after the first year its domestic licensing sales just went down. From 234M yen in its first year to 167M yen in its 2nd and finally 88M yen in its last year. Here the source: http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/ir/201503_4Q_keisu.pdf
Why would they invest in a downhill franchise when they have a lot of better options?

Have you ever asked how a Show that its anime started when the manga was in chapter 134 had to stop, because it caught up during its 3rd year and in episode 147, while other anime that started when the manga was in chapter 100 is still running without problems, after 16 years and in episode 702? Because the first is Toriko and the second is One Piece.
Also have you ever asked what other show of Toei stopped because it caught up to the manga and was brought back again after enough content was made? Let me tell you. None! If this happens with Toriko it will be the first one. The closest case that happened with Toei was Kindaichi case files, and that series was mega popular and the anime had to end because the authors completely stop making chapters(so it could be considered an hiatus or an end), just to return a lot of years later and start doing Kindaichi cases files Return. That isn't Toriko case though!

---------- Post added at 08:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

The Toriko anime was very obviously pushed hard just like the manga. If the series did like how it did without these collaborations and stuff with One Piece and Dragon Ball, I'd have called it a good success. But from all these collaborations and resources that were put into it, it was obvious that Toei and WSJ wanted Toriko to be the next big thing. It didn't become the next big thing. The anime got it's own opening song made specially for it. Before it aired, it featured with Luffy in a special episode. There was that 3D movie with One Piece, the collaboration episode with Luffy and Goku. The anime was pushed really really hard. I'm sorry but a 1.5 million return for a movie after all this is just below average at the very best.
That is not really true.
Tell me what resources were put in doing a special with One Piece. If any other thing that saved money because it was made 1 instead of 2 episodes in that week.
Collaborations aren't meant to turn a franchise to the size of the other. Toriko wasn't of the size of One Piece and that wasn't the objective. The objective was to promote the block and show how similar the two series were.
Also the 3D movie with One Piece is just like the 3D Movie between Digimon and Gegege no Kitaro. It means almost nothing.

Note that Toriko Toriko 3D movie was planned since the 2nd Quarter of 2010(Between July and September), before Toei got Toriko anime license(Just like Ufotable Toriko OVA).
This is what Toei says about that 3D Movie:
Expanding 3D market

Utilizing the skill and technology
which we have acquired for
event/leisure park films or 3D
movie in 2009, Locomotive
Yaemon, we will make 2 popular
titles on weekly Shonen Jump
magazine into 3D movies. Not only
for theatrical features, but we will
put new titles in the rapidlyenlarging
3D market such as TVs
at home or videogame consoles.
Toriko anime license was done 1 quarter later and here is what Toei animation says about Toriko
Popular comics into animation

unusual adventurous
gourmet Manga featuring “gastronomy”
has sold over 4.8 million copies (vol. 1-
11&spin-off) with its popularity on
Weekly Shonen Jump
After it started
Good takeoff
in licensing

Share on
the rise

This conversation about becoming the big thing is quite stupid, this is a western thing just like the Big 3. This isn't how a business is run at all. This big thing people talk isn't something that is planned and certainly not when you have a manga like Toriko. Go look how Toriko manga was doing before the anime and you will know that it didn't warranted such expectations(4.8 Million copies sold by volume 11 and spin-offs).
When a company gets a franchise, it has to promote it as best as it can. Why would Toei not promote Toriko with One Piece? They are both free/unusual world adventures, in the same block and the authors knew each other and had a good relationship.

So much conversation about Toriko spending so many resources. One Piece got a full-length theater movie announced at the same time as the anime! Digimon got a movie before the anime! Gintama 1st episode had an 1 hour long special episode. Naruto and Bleach had no such things.
 
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Unok

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I really like how every time you start blabbering about Toriko getting pushed much more than the rest, unlike bleach, etc, etc. Yet do you want me to bring back the stats I showed you that time, that showed that Bleach had more CP and Covers for the same period at which you were telling Toriko was super pushed?
If you were willing to call it good success, then it doesn't matter if it had push or no. And again, manga sales are not the only definition on why something gets anime.

Yeah, because Pierrot is not making new Bleach, why would Toei make more Toriko :V Awesome logic here. But Bleach will get it's anime, when it gets closer to the end. If they made anime in the last 2 years, it would have resulted in fillers. And obviously fillers weren't that good received for Bleach, otherwise they would have been continuing with fillers.

In order for a show to get a new season, it doesn't need to be the mega-super-duper seller in both manga and dvd sales... I'm just amused you think that.

I suppose the previous 3 gintama anime, were also due to this movie :V

Except that they can make certain number of eps, otherwise they enter another cour. And you can't just like that enter another cour. And since they wanted to end it at the end of Human World arc, they couldn't just end it at the characters death. So they had to skip/change some material to fit into the eps numbers. Overall they kept the story.


The only reason why you don't know the name of the block before Dragon Ball Kai is because...
Sure, that's why there is not a mention or any kind of picture even in japanese sources.

I haven't watched Slam Dunk until the end, nor Gash Bell. But if they are like Toriko, then that's not an Original Ending at all. Original ending is Claymore, changing moments but no finishing the anime story, is not an "original ending".

"Why would they invest in a downhill franchise when they have a lot of better options?" because the 3rd year is not profitable at all and they are at loosing money? Do you assume that people should invest in things only if the return money are 50 times more? So if americans make a movie with 50milion budget and get 90 million profit, then make 2nd for 50 million and get 70milion profit. They won't make a 3rd, because it's a downhill franchise that isn't making 300million per movie? Because we all know it's either 300% profit or no profit, there is no gray area! A break and new anime, usually gives hype more than a 1 year of fillers. A new franchise doesn't guarantee it will do better either.

What do I need to ask? OP covers 1 chapter per episode. Extremely slow pace with low budget 15-18min episodes (rest is summary and songs). That's how. It's also from 15 years ago, managing to gather it's audience since quite some time. There is no need for each show to take that direction. Can you tell me which show from the last 2-3 or future years, can make it like OP?


"Also have you ever asked what other show of Toei stopped because it caught up to the manga and was brought back again after enough content was made? Let me tell you. None!" Give me the list of show that ended because they caught up to the manga and not because they ended for another reason. Because not having such case, doesn't mean: they had 20 cases like that and didn't continue it. And we will see how popular were those cases like Toriko. And even if there is non, that is some sort of a guarantee that it won't continue? Really? How about WT? It's getting close to the manga, it will stop and a new anime will start (there may not be really a break, but it technically ends due to catching up, and a new will start and it's not a simple "extending" into 2nd year).
 
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