Fantasy Mard Geer VS Ajeel

[Brandish μ]

I do agree that you can compare characters of 2 different timeskips, but what I think XXEliteXXAceXX meant was that it would be unfair to do so. But yeah, it's possible to compare post timeskip Gray with pre timeskip Makarov.

Ah okay. Even so, to call it unfair is probably not the right word I think, maybe harder to compare. You can take into account the time of series when assessing feats which is standard I assume.

(This is complete theory for this paragraph) The only reason I can think of where a legit reason for not comparing times is when Zeref referred to the amount of ethernano being high in X777. This would mean there is a greater potential for stronger mages in recent times compared to say when Mavis was still alive. But in the span of a year I doubt it's a great change, possibly over a decade you'd notice for sure.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I just came to read this thread so will make some points.

- You can compare two timeskips by simply comparing the feats. Hades and Mard Geer belong to different timeskips where FT got power-ups. You can compare Hades and Mard Geer based on their performances and feats. You can infer their speed, the power of their attacks, how durable they are etc. Thus you can compare. You can do this for Ajeel and Mard Geer too. Why do you feel you cannot, when you can clearly see feats?

- Mard is not the offensive powerhouse that Ajeel is. This is a fact as far as I am concerned. Where Mard stacks up is durability, endurance, speed, agility. To me this is NOT enough for EF Mard to beat Ajeel, it just makes Mard a tough person for Ajeel to beat. EF Mards offense is comparable to current Erza's as far as I am concerned (maybe even less) so he's going to struggle making damage unless he gets help like Erza.

- I do agree that Mard won't be stronger than any Spriggan and this is an estimation. BUT there is no evidence yet there is hype for most of them. This hype has been reliable so far but it is not evidence.

- As for Natsu I think his base form has feats to do serious damage to Ajeel, maybe even win. It's high diff either way. Dragon force should be stronger than anything related to Etherious imo given Dragons > Demons that's my opinion.

You don't do it like that... It's Tartaros Mard vs Current Ajeel, of course. Even if Mard showed up again (which he won't), if he didn't battle, only Tartaros feats would be included in versus threads (same goes for people like Gray, who have virtually no current feats).

I literally named all of Ajeel's stats and you call them cons. I believe I mentioned intangibility several times, so I don't know what you're saying. He can dodge most of Mard's attacks with Sand Body, I never said otherwise.
Exactly, how is Ajeel's durability extremely high? First, he tanked neither Jupiter nor Nakagami Starlight. He was overwhelmed by both of them.
Let me tell you that Natsu is currently above Erza featwise. Nakagami Starlight is a haxed MCB buster and you call it deadly?

Ajeel's dehydration had little to no immediate effect on Erza. Exactly how is he dehydrating Mard? He isn't because his dehydration is nearly featless.

**NOTE: This is not directed towards you specifically but hopefully this will help you understand why I so firmly believe Alvarez Ajeel > Tartaros Mard Geer with no real difficulty.

I mean sure, we have our own beliefs. Like I said, I don't have a problem with comparing from two different timeskips but you will be inducing a one-sided or unfair match. That is only if you are comparing two characters who are similar in magic power whether it is from feats or hype. Like Pre-timeskip Laxus vs. Post Timeskip Macao. Who win? This we can compare because there is quite a difference there. Laxus takes it.

Now, I already gave an example, but who would win? Erza or Natsu? See, it is a tough question when really it isn't because obviously Alvarez and Tartaros Natsu > Alvarez and Tartaros Erza. But the reason why I said it's tough is because I was actually comparing Tartaros Natsu and Alvarez Erza. Erza wins here. There is a difference here from the previous example.

All I have been trying to say here was that this comparison is invalid but some believe they know what Tartaros Ajeel would be like or Alvarez Mard Geer. I keep saying that if you believe this, tell me what character they would be compared to but nobody answers because it is impossible to tell.

I never denied Mard Geer is strong. I've already said that he is. You can use feats to predict how strong Mard Geer is on a standard level. But not to compare with somebody in a different timeskip. Take Natsu as an example. I thought he was weaker than Gildarts but he went from being weaker than Tartaros Gildarts to way stronger than Tartaros Gildarts in just one year. Could we have predicted this before Avatar Arc? No.

But to say Ajeel vs. Mard Geer in their respective timeskips, I think Ajeel takes this with Medium Difficulty purely due to the difference in time. Otherwise, I can't compare. Basically, I'm trying to say that the Mard Geer we see is not even close to the power of the Spriggans which shows how Natsu, Erza, and Fairy Tail has improved over the last year.

I know this post is already long but look at this. Natsu has a hard time defeating Ajeel. Natsu one-spotted Bluenote. Bluenote was supposedly compared to Gildarts. Personally, Gildarts is compared to the power or level of Mard Geer in Tartaros. Overall, I am using Post-Timeskip Natsu, Ajeel, and Bluenote while everyone else is Pre-Timeskip. If nobody sees it at this point, I don't know when you will realize it.

The Natsu vs. Ajeel part was just my perspective of the Spriggans. If you believe something else, you have every right to and I don't see any problem.

 

[Brandish μ]

Yes it is completely silly to have Alvarez Mard (dead) vs Tartarus Ajeel (total unknown). But did anyone really pose this? If there is a thread of Hades vs Mard Geer it would be downright absurd to say Hades is alive and trained blah blah etc etc. And I generally assume that when people talk about a character that belongs to one timeskip they are talking about them from that particular timeskip not hypothetically. G

To me Erza vs Natsu is not tough. Alvarez Natsu (w/Igneel power) > Alvarez Natsu (base) > DF Natsu (Tartarus) > Alvarez Erza > Tartarus Erza > Tartarus Natsu (base) ~ Tenrou Erza > Tenrou Natsu (base). I left out all the times he got MP power ups like Tenrou-LFD and Etherion-DF etc these modes are inbetween DF Tartarus and Alvarez Erza. I willl also say Tenrou Erza might be able to take Tartarus Natsu (w/LFD) but I see it as a very close fight.

I understand what logic you're using. I just think it's easier to assess feats. Mainly because the error involved with logic (like Mard ~ Gildarts ~ Bluenote - right there the margin of error is already building up). It's not a bad method though, there's error in interpreting feats too.

 

[kkck]

Personally I would go for ajir. With ease at that. With the introduction of the springan and the likes of bluenote now being fodder to natsu and presumably his teammates as well the old benchmarks for power are pretty much gone.

-Bluenote from 2 years ago was just beneath gildarts.
- Natsu from the current timelike easily bested bluenote with one of his mid level techniques. Gildarts used what seems to be one of his stronger techniques.
- All of the springan use makarov as a benchmark for power. So far we know each one has magical power comparable or greater than makarovs.
And so far the implication is that makarov has greater magical power than gildarts. The worst case scenario is that gildarts is comparable actually but even that seems unlikely.
- 3 dragon slayers were sent to deal with ajir. That didn't quite pan out due to circumstances but then erza was the one doing this. Ajir invariably had the upperhand and it took two shots from one of the most powerful magical weapons the manga has produced so far to give erza the opportunity to land a hit on him. Basically, ajir was someone whom FT thought would take at least 3 powerful dragon slayers to defeat. Which is surprising considering the sheer power natsu showed and gajeel is probably at least comparable to natsu.
- Mard geer was shown as powerful but he was never compared to even makarov.

Now, there isn't much to compare mard geer to gildarts however what little we have is this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/410/12

With help natsu was able to land a hit. It didn't seem to cause too much damage but it did at least push him back a bit. In turn against gildarts we have this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/417/11

That is natsu's actual strongest attack against gildarts, the exploding lotus thing. And it just pushed him back.

In terms of sheer destructive capacity I don't think mard geer ever did anything like this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/417/14

Of course, the case could be made that mard geer didnt display something like this because his magic work differently. However the springan so far have all been implied to be capable of well more than this at least. In turn nothing of the sort was said of mard geer.

I'd argue that the strongest mard geer could be is as gildarts before the timeskip. However if he is only that strong he still looses with ease against the sprigan we have seen so far.

 

[Holt]

Well Ajeel wins this with a fair bit of difficulty. Mard Geer wouldn't be a pushover but the spriggans operate of a far different level than the Tartarus demons. Ajeel should be able to best Mard Geer

 

[Coné]

**NOTE: This is not directed towards you specifically but hopefully this will help you understand why I so firmly believe Alvarez Ajeel > Tartaros Mard Geer with no real difficulty.

I mean sure, we have our own beliefs. Like I said, I don't have a problem with comparing from two different timeskips but you will be inducing a one-sided or unfair match. That is only if you are comparing two characters who are similar in magic power whether it is from feats or hype. Like Pre-timeskip Laxus vs. Post Timeskip Macao. Who win? This we can compare because there is quite a difference there. Laxus takes it.

Now, I already gave an example, but who would win? Erza or Natsu? See, it is a tough question when really it isn't because obviously Alvarez and Tartaros Natsu > Alvarez and Tartaros Erza. But the reason why I said it's tough is because I was actually comparing Tartaros Natsu and Alvarez Erza. Erza wins here. There is a difference here from the previous example.
All I have been trying to say here was that this comparison is invalid but some believe they know what Tartaros Ajeel would be like or Alvarez Mard Geer. I keep saying that if you believe this, tell me what character they would be compared to but nobody answers because it is impossible to tell.

No one ever talked about Alvarez Mard. Tartaros Erza is almost the same as Current Erza if we look at it from a powerscaling point of view, but portrayal says otherwise. Also, Tartaros LFD Natsu is around Erza's level.

I never denied Mard Geer is strong. I've already said that he is. You can use feats to predict how strong Mard Geer is on a standard level. But not to compare with somebody in a different timeskip. Take Natsu as an example. I thought he was weaker than Gildarts but he went from being weaker than Tartaros Gildarts to way stronger than Tartaros Gildarts in just one year. Could we have predicted this before Avatar Arc? No.

Feats don't say that current base Natsu is much stronger than Gildarts. Slightly above? Yes. Way stronger? No, only if you're talking about BDKM Natsu. Why would the different timeskip make a difference if Mard has better feats?

But to say Ajeel vs. Mard Geer in their respective timeskips, I think Ajeel takes this with Medium Difficulty purely due to the difference in time. Otherwise, I can't compare. Basically, I'm trying to say that the Mard Geer we see is not even close to the power of the Spriggans which shows how Natsu, Erza, and Fairy Tail has improved over the last year.

And why wouldn't Mard be around the Shields' level of power? The only one who stated that was Erza, and Erza never fought with Mard. The time doesn't make difference either. You're just hyping Ajeel for no reason. What you're basically saying is that I can't compare Nirvana Zero with Current Erza, because they're from different timeskips, but their power level is identical.

I know this post is already long but look at this. Natsu has a hard time defeating Ajeel. Natsu one-spotted Bluenote. Bluenote was supposedly compared to Gildarts. Personally, Gildarts is compared to the power or level of Mard Geer in Tartaros. Overall, I am using Post-Timeskip Natsu, Ajeel, and Bluenote while everyone else is Pre-Timeskip. If nobody sees it at this point, I don't know when you will realize it.

First thing wrong with the post. Natsu never fought Ajeel one-on-one and it's irrelevant anyways, because that's not the factor here. Natsu's only slightly above Gildarts no matter how you see it.
Second, Natsu one-shotting Bluenote has more to do with Bluenote's low durability and reaction speed rather than his strength, thus it can't be compared to the battle with Gildarts, where Bluenote was able to attack Gildarts due to Gildarts' magic being restricted. Once Gildarts' magic came back, he nullified Bluenote's strongest attack and one-shotted him, so it's not comparable to Natsu's battle.
Third, Mard is actually above Gildarts. He has better durability, more hax and better combat speed.

You realize that by analyzing just feats and scaling, Mard is well above Ajeel, right? What saves Ajeel in this match-up is Sand Body hax and Sand World, otherwise I would say Mard would win high diff.

The Natsu vs. Ajeel part was just my perspective of the Spriggans. If you believe something else, you have every right to and I don't see any problem.

I have no problem saying that Natsu's above Ajeel, but Natsu blitzing Bluenote doesn't mean he could do the same with Gildarts.

Personally I would go for ajir. With ease at that. With the introduction of the springan and the likes of bluenote now being fodder to natsu and presumably his teammates as well the old benchmarks for power are pretty much gone.

-Bluenote from 2 years ago was just beneath gildarts.
- Natsu from the current timelike easily bested bluenote with one of his mid level techniques. Gildarts used what seems to be one of his stronger techniques.
- All of the springan use makarov as a benchmark for power. So far we know each one has magical power comparable or greater than makarovs.
And so far the implication is that makarov has greater magical power than gildarts. The worst case scenario is that gildarts is comparable actually but even that seems unlikely.
- 3 dragon slayers were sent to deal with ajir. That didn't quite pan out due to circumstances but then erza was the one doing this. Ajir invariably had the upperhand and it took two shots from one of the most powerful magical weapons the manga has produced so far to give erza the opportunity to land a hit on him. Basically, ajir was someone whom FT thought would take at least 3 powerful dragon slayers to defeat. Which is surprising considering the sheer power natsu showed and gajeel is probably at least comparable to natsu.
- Mard geer was shown as powerful but he was never compared to even makarov.

Now, there isn't much to compare mard geer to gildarts however what little we have is this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/410/12

With help natsu was able to land a hit. It didn't seem to cause too much damage but it did at least push him back a bit. In turn against gildarts we have this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/417/11

That is natsu's actual strongest attack against gildarts, the exploding lotus thing. And it just pushed him back.

In terms of sheer destructive capacity I don't think mard geer ever did anything like this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/417/14

Of course, the case could be made that mard geer didnt display something like this because his magic work differently. However the springan so far have all been implied to be capable of well more than this at least. In turn nothing of the sort was said of mard geer.

I'd argue that the strongest mard geer could be is as gildarts before the timeskip. However if he is only that strong he still looses with ease against the sprigan we have seen so far.

> Bluenote from Tenrou was actually mid diffed by Gildarts if you see it in a fair way.
> Bluenote's durability is below MCB and what really saved his ass against Gildarts was his ability to use his magic without any response from Gildarts.
> Magical Power =/= Power Level. By the way, Makarov's not that big of a benchmark seeing that people like Gildarts are stronger than him.
> Ajeel was actually fighting on par with Erza from when she requipped Wind God Armor up until when he casted Sand World. Also, Gajeel can't be scaled to Natsu.
> Mard Geer actually showed better feats than Makarov.

Natsu's LFD mode, which is stronger than his Secret Arts in base form, failed to affect Mard. In terms of sheer DC, Mard can be scaled with CSK, who's a City buster. That's already enough to be put on Gildarts' level.

Feats > Hype

Mard Geer is faster than Gildarts, has more hax and the same DC. That's enough for me to say that Mard is stronger than Gildarts.

 

[kkck]

> Bluenote from Tenrou was actually mid diffed by Gildarts if you see it in a fair way.
> Bluenote's durability is below MCB and what really saved his ass against Gildarts was his ability to use his magic without any response from Gildarts.
> Magical Power =/= Power Level. By the way, Makarov's not that big of a benchmark seeing that people like Gildarts are stronger than him.
> Ajeel was actually fighting on par with Erza from when she requipped Wind God Armor up until when he casted Sand World. Also, Gajeel can't be scaled to Natsu.
> Mard Geer actually showed better feats than Makarov.

Natsu's LFD mode, which is stronger than his Secret Arts in base form, failed to affect Mard. In terms of sheer DC, Mard can be scaled with CSK, who's a City buster. That's already enough to be put on Gildarts' level.

Feats > Hype

Mard Geer is faster than Gildarts, has more hax and the same DC. That's enough for me to say that Mard is stronger than Gildarts.

Why would we think gildarts is stronger than makarov? So far the implication seems to be that makarov is the stronger one, or at least was the stronger one. Even now it's makarov who is used as a benchmark of power, not gildarts. And we have seen several people whose power was comparable to gildarts.

Ajeel was basically fooling around with erza. Once he got serious erza immedeately lost the upperhand and was almost killed.

How is mard geer faster than gildarts? I am pretty sure the manga never shows anything that evidences that.

Whats DC?

 

[Coné]

Why would we think gildarts is stronger than makarov? So far the implication seems to be that makarov is the stronger one, or at least was the stronger one. Even now it's makarov who is used as a benchmark of power, not gildarts. And we have seen several people whose power was comparable to gildarts.

Ajeel was basically fooling around with erza. Once he got serious erza immedeately lost the upperhand and was almost killed.

How is mard geer faster than gildarts? I am pretty sure the manga never shows anything that evidences that.

Whats DC?

I think Gildarts is stronger than Makarov simply because he has better feats. Maybe portrayal shows us otherwise, but we've already seen Makarov give his best in a battle and even then, Gildart is better in speed and attack potency.

Ajeel was fooling around with her until she cut him with her Water Sword. Then he was at disavantage with her until he got serious and casted Sand World, which turned the tables. Yet, defeating Erza is not enough of an indicator for me to say that Ajeel is stronger than Erza (Mard has enough feats to prove that he would do the same) and using the fact that the 3 DS were gonna fight him as an argument is just speculative.

Mard Geer fought on par with CSK, who is much faster than Gildarts, thus he can be scaled with him.

DC = destructive capacity or attack potency

 

[MangerDan]

Why would we think gildarts is stronger than makarov? So far the implication seems to be that makarov is the stronger one, or at least was the stronger one. Even now it's makarov who is used as a benchmark of power, not gildarts. And we have seen several people whose power was comparable to gildarts.

Ajeel was basically fooling around with erza. Once he got serious erza immedeately lost the upperhand and was almost killed.

How is mard geer faster than gildarts? I am pretty sure the manga never shows anything that evidences that.

Whats DC?

Destructive capacity basically how much damage a character can dish out whether it's building level or universe level.

 

[Vasgoko]

Well Ajeel wins this with a fair bit of difficulty. Mard Geer wouldn't be a pushover but the spriggans operate of a far different level than the Tartarus demons. Ajeel should be able to best Mard Geer

Well, I doubt the Spriggans are far from the Tartaros Demons. The Tartaros demons were designed to kill Zeref. Idk why Tartaros is underestimated.

Ik Alvarez is strong and all and they are on a whole other tier than Ishgar, but the mages in Ishgar aren't something to be toyed with either.

The strongest of Ishgar should be up there with the Spriggans. Mard Geer was clearly one of Ishgar's strongest and is at least mid tier Spriggan material.

Think about it for a moment, if Ishgar's strongest is truly leagues below Alvarez:

1. How will Ishgar win the current war?

2. Why is God Serena one of the Spriggans now?


My point is that the Spriggans aren't invincible. This thread is a bit unfair towards Mard Geer cuz you are comparing two different timeframes. Ajeel was once weak too you know. Back in Tartaros, Ajeel wasn't as strong as he is now. That's how powerscaling works.

Here is an example:

Scenario 1:

Who wins in the fight? End of Tartaros Gray vs End of Tartaros Lyon?

Most would say Gray.


Scenario 2:

Who wins now? Galuna Gray vs. GMG Lyon?

See the difference? Obviously Lyon cuz that is a gap of 7 whole years. That's hardly fair.



Now if you see a thread that says: Gray vs Lyon

How many of you are going to really think Scenario 2?

You either think of both Galuna Gray and Lyon, both GMG Gray and Lyon, or both Tartaros Gray and Lyon.


That's what I thought when I saw this thread Mard Geer vs Ajeel.


Now it is also understandable if you want to power scale just to see the difference.

Like End of Tartaros Gray vs Pre timeskip Gildartz

And I think the intention of @natsulucy is just that.



So yeah, in conclusion, I stay by:



Fair comparison: Mard Geer vs Ajeel

Mard Geer relatively easy-mid diff at most.



Power Gauging: Current Alvarez Ajeel vs Tartaros Mard Geer

Ajeel wins mid-high diff at most. Only because Ajeel has had one full year to train while Mard Geer has not grown any stronger.

 

[Holt]

@Vasgoko
Well I think it's very fair to say Alvarez is a fair bit above Tartarus demons. Yes they were designed to kill Zeref but in the end, their showing was far below what would've been sufficient to actually get the job done. Pre Ts FT fought and defeated the demons with difficulty. Over the TS, they all grew immensely powerful and spriggan are still the superior ones. Take Ajeel vs Erza. It took all she had and Jupiter to take out Ajeel and that's because he was fooling around when he could've taken her out. Erza is obviously still among the most powerful in the guild and she couldn't solo a spriggan. Simply put, the level of demons is a thing far in the past. Pretty much everyone has eclipsed that by now. Heck Wendy took out a demon with her DF but was unable to stand under bluenote's gravity and then Natsu proceeded to take him out easily. Just shows how much difference the timeskip made.

 

[Coné]

Well, I doubt the Spriggans are far from the Tartaros Demons. The Tartaros demons were designed to kill Zeref. Idk why Tartaros is underestimated.

Ik Alvarez is strong and all and they are on a whole other tier than Ishgar, but the mages in Ishgar aren't somethings to be toyed with either.

The strongest of Ishgar should be up there with the Spriggans. Mard Geer was clearly on of Ishgar's strongest and is at least mid tier Spriggan material.

Think about it for a moment, if Ishgar's strongest is truly leagues below Alvarez:

1. How will Ishgar win the current war?

2. Why is God Serena one of the Spriggans now?


My point is that the Spriggans aren't invincible. This thread is a bit unfair towards Mard Geer cuz you are comparing two different timeframes. Ajeel was once weak to you know. Back in Tartaros, Ajeel wasn't as strong as he is now. That's how powerscaling works.

Here is an example:

Scenario 1:

Who wins in the fight? End of Tartaros Gray vs End of Tartaros Lyon?

Most would say Gray.


Scenario 2:

Who wins now? Galuna Gray vs. GMG Lyon?

See the difference? Obviously Lyon cuz that is a gap of 7 whole years. That's hardly fair.



Now if you see a thread that says: Gray vs Lyon

How many of you are going to really think Scenario 2?

You either think of both Galuna Gray and Lyon, both GMG Gray and Lyon, or both Tartaros Gray and Lyon.


That's what I thought when I saw this thread Mard Geer vs Ajeel.


Now it is also understandable if you want to power scale just to see the difference.

Like End of Tartaros Gray vs Pre timeskip Gildartz

And I think the intention of @natsulucy is just that.



So yeah, in conclusion, I stay by:



Fair comparison: Mard Geer vs Ajeel

Mard Geer relatively easy-mid diff at most.



Power Gauging: Current Alvarez Ajeel vs Tartaros Mard Geer

Ajeel wins mid-high diff at most. Only because Ajeel has had one full year to train while Mard Geer has not grown npany stronger.

That's not how you do it. It's not because one year had one full year to train that he's going to be stronger. If you see it that way, Mard had 400 years to train, so he should be stronger than anyone on the verse except for the Dragon Kings, Zeref and Acnologia, right? Because that's the exact logic you're following and it's faulty logic.

What you have to see first when you compare two different characters is essentially the feats they have and then see how they're portrayed. Ajeel is essentially just hype with few feats, which is logically not as much as someone who has better feats but with less hype, if you understand what I'm saying.

@Vasgoko
Well I think it's very fair to say Alvarez is a fair bit above Tartarus demons. Yes they were designed to kill Zeref but in the end, their showing was far below what would've been sufficient to actually get the job done. Pre Ts FT fought and defeated the demons with difficulty. Over the TS, they all grew immensely powerful and spriggan are still the superior ones. Take Ajeel vs Erza. It took all she had and Jupiter to take out Ajeel and that's because he was fooling around when he could've taken her out. Erza is obviously still among the most powerful in the guild and she couldn't solo a spriggan. Simply put, the level of demons is a thing far in the past. Pretty much everyone has eclipsed that by now. Heck Wendy took out a demon with her DF but was unable to stand under bluenote's gravity and then Natsu proceeded to take him out easily. Just shows how much difference the timeskip made.

You're all overrating the timeskip too much. Most Fairy Tail members are currently essentially the same they were back in Tartaros, and that includes Gray, Wendy, Gajeel, Makarov, etc. Current Erza is only slightly stronger than Tartaros Erza if we go by feats, so that only puts Ajeel on a higher level than Kyouka, who was much weaker than Mard despite being the 3rd strongest 9DG. Wendy did indeed defeat Ezel while in DF, but Ezel was below Bluenote anyways, and if IIRC, DF was not activated when she fought with Bluenote.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

No one ever talked about Alvarez Mard. Tartaros Erza is almost the same as Current Erza if we look at it from a powerscaling point of view, but portrayal says otherwise. Also, Tartaros LFD Natsu is around Erza's level.


Feats don't say that current base Natsu is much stronger than Gildarts. Slightly above? Yes. Way stronger? No, only if you're talking about BDKM Natsu. Why would the different timeskip make a difference if Mard has better feats?


And why wouldn't Mard be around the Shields' level of power? The only one who stated that was Erza, and Erza never fought with Mard. The time doesn't make difference either. You're just hyping Ajeel for no reason. What you're basically saying is that I can't compare Nirvana Zero with Current Erza, because they're from different timeskips, but their power level is identical.


First thing wrong with the post. Natsu never fought Ajeel one-on-one and it's irrelevant anyways, because that's not the factor here. Natsu's only slightly above Gildarts no matter how you see it.
Second, Natsu one-shotting Bluenote has more to do with Bluenote's low durability and reaction speed rather than his strength, thus it can't be compared to the battle with Gildarts, where Bluenote was able to attack Gildarts due to Gildarts' magic being restricted. Once Gildarts' magic came back, he nullified Bluenote's strongest attack and one-shotted him, so it's not comparable to Natsu's battle.
Third, Mard is actually above Gildarts. He has better durability, more hax and better combat speed.

You realize that by analyzing just feats and scaling, Mard is well above Ajeel, right? What saves Ajeel in this match-up is Sand Body hax and Sand World, otherwise I would say Mard would win high diff.

I have no problem saying that Natsu's above Ajeel, but Natsu blitzing Bluenote doesn't mean he could do the same with Gildarts.

Tartaros Erza is not the same as Alvarez Erza... Don't know where you got that from. Just know that Tartaros Erza can't even kill Mard Geer. Yet, how can Erza inflict so much damage on Ajeel???

You keep using feats but then interpret it to your own liking. To determine a character's power you need hype too because not every feat is shown. That does not mean feats are not important. They are but you need to fairly assess them. Natsu right now is way stronger than Tartaros Gildarts. I'm not comparing Alvarez Gildarts because he hasn't even shown up yet... You can believe however way you want, but I'm not changing my mind on this.

I'm not hyping Ajeel at all because we've already seen his feats. Being able to withstand one of Erza's strongest attacks plus a Jupiter Cannon that had once completely destroyed Erza's best defensive armor is no mere feat to laugh at. Time does matter... If you don't think so, you're just ignorant. I don't understand what you're getting at by saying that you can't compare Nirvana Zero and Erza but then saying that their power level is identical...???

Fine, don't use Natsu then... Take Erza but I know everyone always talks nonsense whenever I bring her in; hence, I don't mention her. She had trouble defeating Ajeel. Yet, in Tartaros, she wasn't far behind Natsu who still one-shotted Bluenote. You can finish it from there.

No, Mard Geer is not well above Ajeel... In fact, feats, power scaling, hype, and anything else hints that Ajeel is stronger.

Never said Natsu can defeat Gildarts. In fact he can't. Again, I was comparing Post-Timeskip Bluenote to Pre-Timeskip Gildarts so it doesn't mean Natsu can one-shot Gildarts. I think Gildarts can beat Natsu and Makarov even now... I only used the comparison to show you the difference in power between timeskips, that's it...

Well, I doubt the Spriggans are far from the Tartaros Demons. The Tartaros demons were designed to kill Zeref. Idk why Tartaros is underestimated.

Ik Alvarez is strong and all and they are on a whole other tier than Ishgar, but the mages in Ishgar aren't something to be toyed with either.

The strongest of Ishgar should be up there with the Spriggans. Mard Geer was clearly one of Ishgar's strongest and is at least mid tier Spriggan material.

Think about it for a moment, if Ishgar's strongest is truly leagues below Alvarez:

1. How will Ishgar win the current war?

2. Why is God Serena one of the Spriggans now?


My point is that the Spriggans aren't invincible. This thread is a bit unfair towards Mard Geer cuz you are comparing two different timeframes. Ajeel was once weak too you know. Back in Tartaros, Ajeel wasn't as strong as he is now. That's how powerscaling works.

Here is an example:

Scenario 1:

Who wins in the fight? End of Tartaros Gray vs End of Tartaros Lyon?

Most would say Gray.


Scenario 2:

Who wins now? Galuna Gray vs. GMG Lyon?

See the difference? Obviously Lyon cuz that is a gap of 7 whole years. That's hardly fair.



Now if you see a thread that says: Gray vs Lyon

How many of you are going to really think Scenario 2?

You either think of both Galuna Gray and Lyon, both GMG Gray and Lyon, or both Tartaros Gray and Lyon.


That's what I thought when I saw this thread Mard Geer vs Ajeel.


Now it is also understandable if you want to power scale just to see the difference.

Like End of Tartaros Gray vs Pre timeskip Gildartz

And I think the intention of @natsulucy is just that.



So yeah, in conclusion, I stay by:



Fair comparison: Mard Geer vs Ajeel

Mard Geer relatively easy-mid diff at most.



Power Gauging: Current Alvarez Ajeel vs Tartaros Mard Geer

Ajeel wins mid-high diff at most. Only because Ajeel has had one full year to train while Mard Geer has not grown any stronger.

natsulucy already said it is Tartaros Mard Geer vs. Alvarez Ajeel so it's Scenario 2. Apparently, nobody is talking about Scenario 1 which they shouldn't. But in Scenario 2, it is obvious that Ajeel beats Mard Geer by a fair margin. I would say Medium Difficulty. If you guys want to push it to High Difficulty, go ahead. I think that would be too far but saying Mard Geer beating Ajeel is just nonsense.

You're all overrating the timeskip too much. Most Fairy Tail members are currently essentially the same they were back in Tartaros, and that includes Gray, Wendy, Gajeel, Makarov, etc. Current Erza is only slightly stronger than Tartaros Erza if we go by feats, so that only puts Ajeel on a higher level than Kyouka, who was much weaker than Mard despite being the 3rd strongest 9DG. Wendy did indeed defeat Ezel while in DF, but Ezel was below Bluenote anyways, and if IIRC, DF was not activated when she fought with Bluenote.

I don't think we are overrating anything. I believe it's more like you are underrating it to win the argument. Ajeel is definitely not just a little stronger than Kyōka. If he was, then they should have no problem killing him, not just beating him. Erza has also improved. I don't see how someone who barely defeated one of the Nine Demon Gates can even damage a Spriggan which Erza has done; therefore, she improved.

 

[Vasgoko]

You guys don't seem to understand that the Spriggans were weaker than they are now during the Tartaros Arc.

What you see right now is not how they were in Tartaros.

You gotta remember you are comparing a character 1 year ago with a character one year later. The power that Gray and Natsu have obtained was just a matter of 1 year, the Spriggans are the same way.

Over the course of one year, their power has increased exponentially.

God Serena is a Spriggan, I don't see why Mard Geer can't compete on those terms. Mard Geer is definitely a competition for the TWS, especially the 4 Heavenly Gods of Ishgar.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

@Chaos Get your ass here and debate. I'm going to bed and I'll see this tomorrow.

He doesn't have to debate if he doesn't want to. Don't force anyone to post something they don't care about. Just face it that Ajeel > Mard Geer.

 

[MangerDan]

You guys don't seem to understand that the Spriggans were weaker than they are now during the Tartaros Arc.

What you see right now is not how they were in Tartaros.

You gotta remember you are comparing a character 1 year ago with a character one year later. The power that Gray and Natsu have obtained was just a matter of 1 year, the Spriggans are the same way.

Over the course of one year, their power has increased exponentially.

God Serena is a Spriggan, I don't see why Mard Geer can't compete on those terms. Mard Geer is definitely a competition for the TWS, especially the 4 Heavenly Gods of Ishgar.

How do you know this? Do you have actual proof? Just because some characters improved over the time skip. It doesn't mean others automatically had too as well. Spriggans not being as strong as they are a year ago is based on nothing.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

You guys don't seem to understand that the Spriggans were weaker than they are now during the Tartaros Arc.

What you see right now is not how they were in Tartaros.

You gotta remember you are comparing a character 1 year ago with a character one year later. The power that Gray and Natsu have obtained was just a matter of 1 year, the Spriggans are the same way.

Over the course of one year, their power has increased exponentially.

God Serena is a Spriggan, I don't see why Mard Geer can't compete on those terms. Mard Geer is definitely a competition for the TWS, especially the 4 Heavenly Gods of Ishgar.

Yes, they were weaker in the Tartaros Arc. But this is EXACTLY my point. Just how weak were they? On the level Gray and Natsu or Erza or Sting and Rogue or Silver or Kyōka or Jackal? Where do they place? You post what you think, go ahead. I know you can't because none of us can; therefore, I said we can't compare characters from different time periods UNLESS you want it to be ONE-SIDED. In this case, Ajeel defeats Mard Geer. I think I've said this 10 times already, sounding like a broken record.

 

[Vasgoko]

How do you know this? Do you have actual proof? Just because some characters improved over the time skip. It doesn't mean others automatically had too as well. Spriggans not being as strong as they are a year ago is based on nothing.

And how do you know this? Do you have proof? Just because some characters don't have to improve, does this automatically make others not improve as well? Spriggans always being the same strength is based on nothing.


You serious bro? You gotta be kidding me. Everybody improves unless you do nothing. As ZEREF SAID, the Spriggans had plans over the years. They were always absent doing their own stuff, so yeah, they must improve.

And even if they didn't, Mard Geer would have improved or kill the Spriggans when they eventually invade Ishgar 1 year later.

Mard Geer is no fool and he takes action. He is a mastermind and can counter anybody if you give him enough time and he has 1 full year to do so. Mard Geer could easily do with his eyes closed and his ears deaf.

You have no proof either. Show me the facts and give me evidence otherwise I call bullshit.

 

[Coné]

Tartaros Erza is not the same as Alvarez Erza... Don't know where you got that from. Just know that Tartaros Erza can't even kill Mard Geer. Yet, how can Erza inflict so much damage on Ajeel???

You keep using feats but then interpret it to your own liking. To determine a character's power you need hype too because not every feat is shown. That does not mean feats are not important. They are but you need to fairly assess them. Natsu right now is way stronger than Tartaros Gildarts. I'm not comparing Alvarez Gildarts because he hasn't even shown up yet... You can believe however way you want, but I'm not changing my mind on this.

I'm not hyping Ajeel at all because we've already seen his feats. Being able to withstand one of Erza's strongest attacks plus a Jupiter Cannon that had once completely destroyed Erza's best defensive armor is no mere feat to laugh at. Time does matter... If you don't think so, you're just ignorant. I don't understand what you're getting at by saying that you can't compare Nirvana Zero and Erza but then saying that their power level is identical...???

Fine, don't use Natsu then... Take Erza but I know everyone always talks nonsense whenever I bring her in; hence, I don't mention her. She had trouble defeating Ajeel. Yet, in Tartaros, she wasn't far behind Natsu who still one-shotted Bluenote. You can finish it from there.

No, Mard Geer is not well above Ajeel... In fact, feats, power scaling, hype, and anything else hints that Ajeel is stronger.

Never said Natsu can defeat Gildarts. In fact he can't. Again, I was comparing Post-Timeskip Bluenote to Pre-Timeskip Gildarts so it doesn't mean Natsu can one-shot Gildarts. I think Gildarts can beat Natsu and Makarov even now... I only used the comparison to show you the difference in power between timeskips, that's it...


natsulucy already said it is Tartaros Mard Geer vs. Alvarez Ajeel so it's Scenario 2. Apparently, nobody is talking about Scenario 1 which they shouldn't. But in Scenario 2, it is obvious that Ajeel beats Mard Geer by a fair margin. I would say Medium Difficulty. If you guys want to push it to High Difficulty, go ahead. I think that would be too far but saying Mard Geer beating Ajeel is just nonsense.


I don't think we are overrating anything. I believe it's more like you are underrating it to win the argument. Ajeel is definitely not just a little stronger than Kyōka. If he was, then they should have no problem killing him, not just beating him. Erza has also improved. I don't see how someone who barely defeated one of the Nine Demon Gates can even damage a Spriggan which Erza has done; therefore, she improved.

So bring up actual statements, feats and canon stuff to prove that Current Erza isn't just a bit above Tartaros Erza. It might be common sense that people get stronger each year, but that is speculation and speculation isn't accepted in versus threads.
Current Erza inflicted damage on Ajeel for two reasons: First, she used hax to overcome Ajeel's intangibility and not traditional DC; Second, Ajeel's durability is below Mard's. I'll get to this point later.

I'm not interpreting them to my own liking. That's denial right there. CSK's feat calc is here. It's solid city level and Mard can be scaled to him in both DC and durability. Also, that's Mach 16, which is HS. Mard was actually faster than him during their battle and his Etherious Form increases his speed even further, which puts Mard at solid HS combat speed. Natsu's best post-timeskip feat was a mountain buster on Ikusatsunagi and I guess his speed could be scaled to Erza's, and even then he isn't way stronger than Gildarts who's also a mountain buster (feats on Bluenote IIRC) and around HS combat speed (though I'm not sure). That's not way above, that's barely above from my point of view. Besides, saying that Natsu would probably have a "high diff battle against Ajeel" is mere speculation.

If you've already seen his feats, then you should know that he doesn't have any attack above Town level and that anything below that doesn't even scratch Mard (whose durability is City level via scaling with CSK).
Again, Ajeel didn't tank either of those. He was defeated by them, so neither the Jupiter shot (which should be accounted to his defense since he defended against the first shot) nor Nakagami Starlight (which should be a MCB+ buster due to defeating Minerva; indicating more either brings up calcs or is mere speculation) should be included within his durability feats. Furthermore, Mard is scaled with a character whose DC feats stomp Jupiter's DC, so nothing impressive on either Ajeel's durability or physical strength.

Time doesn't matter in this match-up since we have two characters who were each present in only one timeskip and they have their own feats, so we can compare them fairly. Even though Ajeel is facing stronger characters (except for CSK and DF Natsu), his feats aren't as good as Mard's, and even through accurate scaling, this won't go anywhere (he can only be scaled to Erza). I made that comparision to explain why time doesn't matter, as Zero is slightly above current Erza despite being from 8 years before the current timeline.

Erza didn't defeat Ajeel. In fact, once he got serious, it was a low diff battle. Natsu's feats can't be scaled to Erza since he's far ahead of her at the moment.

Maybe hype hints that Ajeel is stronger, but feats don't hint anything and I've already proved why.

Why am I not underrating the timeskip? Because I'm using canon feats to back up my points that not all characters have gotten this much stronger. Erza went from defeating a demon with Town level durability (Kyouka tanked Erza's Cube piercing feat, which is small town level) to damaging one of the Spriggan 12 who has MCB durability via hax. Tell me how this is an improvement? You might want to hype Ajeel and say that because he's much stronger than Kyouka (which he is), he needs to have advantage in all stats, but he clearly doesn't have advantage in durability.

I can perfectly accept someone who says that Ajeel wins this extreme diff, but mid diff? That's just crazy, since I've already proved why this will go down as a stamina battle in my first post. This is my veredict: Intangibility off goes to Mard mid diff; Intangibility on goes to Mard extreme diff or it ends up as a draw.

 

[Vasgoko]

Yes, they were weaker in the Tartaros Arc. But this is EXACTLY my point. Just how weak were they? On the level Gray and Natsu or Erza or Sting and Rogue or Silver or Kyöka or Jackal? Where do they place? You post what you think, go ahead. I know you can't because none of us can; therefore, I said we can't compare characters from different time periods UNLESS you want it to be ONE-SIDED. In this case, Ajeel defeats Mard Geer. I think I've said this 10 times already, sounding like a broken record.

Alright let me give you an idea since you want it so bad. How much did they improve huh, alright.

Ajeel's battle:

- Got taken out by Erza who didn't train, she just sat on her throne, communicated with Jellal about dark guilds, and commanded Gray what to do. Erza has shown nothing.

- Jupiter Cannon assisted


Mard Geer's battle:

- Fended off Celestial Spirit King

- Fought combined assault of twin dragon slayers Sting and Rogue

- Fought Ice Devil Slaying Gray (super effective) and point blank Lightning Flame Dragon Force Natsu Dragneel


CSK, IDeS Gray, LFDF Natsu, Sting, and Rogue is MORE THAN ENOUGH to kill an Erza and a lousy rusty cannon.


Already, Mard Geer is leagues above Ajeel. Add in that Ajeel was weaker 1 year before, then Mard wins easy diff.

I was being nice since @natsulucy didn't include restrictions, but now, I'm gonna end this right now.

Tartaros Mard Geer uses Memento Mori on Current Alvarez Ajeel and erases him from existence. Mard Geer wins one shot.