Hangout Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Hangout Thread

[SpectrumRay16]

You forgot Dragons too on the demon side. I think those are Tyrant dragons.
http://nanatsu-no-taizai.wikia.com/wiki/Tyrant_Dragon

Yeah, they look like tryant dragons and i did forget about them, cause they don't see that tough XD
Pretty much "evil" creatures are on the demon's side!

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Yeah, they look like tryant dragons and i did forget about them, cause they don't see that tough XD
Pretty much "evil" creatures are on the demon's side!

What's interesting in that panel, is the two central figures, the Goddess one, and the one you said would be the demon king. Not only is he humanoid, but his wings are colored light, in contrast with the demons dark wings.His wings aren't jet black in that panel.
If it's him imo that pretty much confirms that he's a former Goddess clan member, and that he rebelled against them, out of pride most likely.Basically he would be Lucifer, and there's a heavy biblical theme with the demons (10 commandments) etc.

 

[SpectrumRay16]

What's interesting in that panel, is the two central figures, the Goddess one, and the one you said would be the demon king. Not only is he humanoid, but his wings are colored light, in contrast with the demons dark wings.His wings aren't jet black in that panel.
If it's him imo that pretty much confirms that he's a former Goddess clan member, and that he rebelled against them, out of pride most likely.Basically he would be Lucifer, and there's a heavy biblical theme with the demons (10 commandments) etc.

Well, i do like the idea of him being Lucifer
Then this entire arc would end up being the sins and help vs the demon army and taking him down?
I do wonder if Nakaba will put the 7 virtues or the 4 horsemen into Taizai though?

The virtues could end up being the last obstacle for the sins and the horsemen might be relevant for the war 3000 year ago?

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Well, i do like the idea of him being Lucifer
Then this entire arc would end up being the sins and help vs the demon army and taking him down?
I do wonder if Nakaba will put the 7 virtues or the 4 horsemen into Taizai though?

The virtues could end up being the last obstacle for the sins and the horsemen might be relevant for the war 3000 year ago?

The cardinal virtues I see being related to the Goddess clan. There's 4 of them.
I don't think it will always be the number 7, we already have 10 commandments. The 4 virtues could be the equivalent of archangels, or the seraphim.
I believe the Goddess clan are the closest to angels yes.
About the demon king, yeah he could be proud hence the bit about Lucifer, but there could be something about him that is "righteous". If he would have people applying the ten commandments then he's more like Yahveh than Satan. As such it could be that the DK isn't really the bad guy, instead it could be the Goddess clan.
Another possibility is that the DK and the commandments represent Christianity, while the Goddess clan are Pagans. The Goddess is a pagan god after all.
So it could be Christinanity vs Paganism, and while there isn't a specific religion in Taizai, there are such themes like the commandments, sins etc.And the period where the Arthurian legends take place in has Christianity spreading, while there are still pagans around, and druids. They would even have rites like Beltaine, so Britannia hasn't being converted completely yet.
So the demon king might not even be a bad guy,he could just be someone who wanted to reform the Goddess clan and broke from them, or he's simply more religious, or even sees himself as a God.

And as far as depicting "angels" as evil goes, it has become a rather popular theme as of late. There's Bayonetta which has angels being the bad guys in the first game(the final boss is god and is a woman ) and even before that the manga Bastard!! had something like that. Although in the end it was more of a battle between Heaven and Hell, with the humans being caught in the middle.
So I guess it's not so strange to have the Goddess clan(which again I see as the closest to angels) be the bad ones.

 

[SpectrumRay16]

The cardinal virtues I see being related to the Goddess clan. There's 4 of them.
I don't think it will always be the number 7, we already have 10 commandments. The 4 virtues could be the equivalent of archangels, or the seraphim.
I believe the Goddess clan are the closest to angels yes.
About the demon king, yeah he could be proud hence the bit about Lucifer, but there could be something about him that is "righteous". If he would have people applying the ten commandments then he's more like Yahveh than Satan. As such it could be that the DK isn't really the bad guy, instead it could be the Goddess clan.
Another possibility is that the DK and the commandments represent Christianity, while the Goddess clan are Pagans. The Goddess is a pagan god after all.
So it could be Christinanity vs Paganism, and while there isn't a specific religion in Taizai, there are such themes like the commandments, sins etc.And the period where the Arthurian legends take place in has Christianity spreading, while there are still pagans around, and druids. They would even have rites like Beltaine, so Britannia hasn't being converted completely yet.
So the demon king might not even be a bad guy,he could just be someone who wanted to reform the Goddess clan and broke from them, or he's simply more religious, or even sees himself as a God.

And as far as depicting "angels" as evil goes, it has become a rather popular theme as of late. There's Bayonetta which has angels being the bad guys in the first game(the final boss is god and is a woman ) and even before that the manga Bastard!! had something like that. Although in the end it was more of a battle between Heaven and Hell, with the humans being caught in the middle.
So I guess it's not so strange to have the Goddess clan(which again I see as the closest to angels) be the bad ones.

Here is the link to what i was talking about, with the four horsemen!
http://www.apocalypse-soon.com/the_four_horsemen.htm

What i was talking about was the idea of releasing the four horsemen, or perhaps founding them in the manga to then bring about the end of Britannia's current state of being. In other words, cleanse the world of sin and destroy the things they represent: War, Pestilence, Famine and Death!

About the Cardinal Virtues, it does also make sense though!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues

The four cardinal virtues: Prudence, Justice, Temperance and Courage are quite interesting in their own right, as they seem to govern and represent the concepts of: reason, restraint, equality and freedom. They could be the final obstacle as well, or perhaps an extra step in getting to the final four?
I think having them in the manga and having them represent what the goddess clan should stand for... is actually quite cool, even if the goddess clan themselves do not follow such rules/regulations. It would be quite cool to see them in action and be on the level of the strongest commandment though!

I'm interested to see if the 4 cardinal virtues and the 4 horsmeen may make an appearance, but, what if both were in the manga and they were creatd to counter one another? The virtues being members of each clan who were under the influence of the goddesses. and the horsemen being four people of varying races that were all free and unimpressed by the war? Thus they banded together and ended up being a third party in the war? Perhaps an unknown one, which had Elizabeth's first incarnation in it? That could explain that the demon army she converted ended up strengthening the four horsemen's chances in the war!

Another thing, there is some Myth stuff about Escanor i'd like you to check out, the first post is the most interesting one!
http://www.marineford.com/Thread-Nanatsu-no-Taizai-Escanor-Mythology

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I don't see what's so special about the horsemen, and how they would fit in NnT.If we look at it, we have the 7 sins, 10 commandments, maybe even 4 cardinal virtues.
These are all sins or virtues/commandment that one should not commit for the former, and others he should abide by for the latter.
What about the horsemen? They don't really represent a sin or a virtue even less a commandment.
Plus I have the vague feeling they'd be related more to the Demon clan, rather than the Goddesses(although I'm not sure if you said they were).
They would be sent to end the world, so naturally they would see humans as sinners, which is the case for demons. The commandments such as faith or truth all have a moralizing aspect about them, basically those who have lost faith or lie get punished.
In that regard I see the horsemen being close to that. Since I'm assuming that the demon king is closer to God than Satan, and that the commandments are based on the christian/jewish ones, then the horsemen would be sent by him rather than the Goddess clan for example.
He would want the world to end, or just man's world. So maybe after the commandments are defeated they could appear.

I think I'd like that more than them being related to the Goddess clan, because we can agree that if the demon king is the one who made the commandments then he's more like Yahveh than Satan. So he's more likely to send the horsemen, if the commandments fail.

Next yeah I think I read about those,but I'm really not convinced he's a villain. Suzuki has changed so many things, and to actually think that Escanor will be "evil" or guilty of his sin just because those knights were in the legends would be too much. And if Gowther who is more of a douche than him turned out to be innocent of his sin, then it will make no sense for me to have Escanor be more of a villain than him. Just saying.
Maybe it's just me who doesn't think that pride is such a huge sin. Compared to wrath, greed, lust, or even gluttony it's less than a problem and I believe a bit of pride is necessary.

 

[SpectrumRay16]

I don't see what's so special about the horsemen, and how they would fit in NnT.If we look at it, we have the 7 sins, 10 commandments, maybe even 4 cardinal virtues.
These are all sins or virtues/commandment that one should not commit for the former, and others he should abide by for the latter.
What about the horsemen? They don't really represent a sin or a virtue even less a commandment.
Plus I have the vague feeling they'd be related more to the Demon clan, rather than the Goddesses(although I'm not sure if you said they were).
They would be sent to end the world, so naturally they would see humans as sinners, which is the case for demons. The commandments such as faith or truth all have a moralizing aspect about them, basically those who have lost faith or lie get punished.
In that regard I see the horsemen being close to that. Since I'm assuming that the demon king is closer to God than Satan, and that the commandments are based on the christian/jewish ones, then the horsemen would be sent by him rather than the Goddess clan for example.
He would want the world to end, or just man's world. So maybe after the commandments are defeated they could appear.

I think I'd like that more than them being related to the Goddess clan, because we can agree that if the demon king is the one who made the commandments then he's more like Yahveh than Satan. So he's more likely to send the horsemen, if the commandments fail.

Next yeah I think I read about those,but I'm really not convinced he's a villain. Suzuki has changed so many things, and to actually think that Escanor will be "evil" or guilty of his sin just because those knights were in the legends would be too much. And if Gowther who is more of a douche than him turned out to be innocent of his sin, then it will make no sense for me to have Escanor be more of a villain than him. Just saying.
Maybe it's just me who doesn't think that pride is such a huge sin. Compared to wrath, greed, lust, or even gluttony it's less than a problem and I believe a bit of pride is necessary.

Well, Gowther can't be innocent of his sin because not only is he morally gray as it stands... His own commandment backfired on him and it has something to do with the No-Lust commandment. So... i would assume that committing his sin is what wiped his memories!
Next, Pride is the most self centered of the sins... however, it does not have to be "evil".
Escanor could still be guilty, but, not be considered evil... in fact, sometimes you just act cocky/arrogant/prideful without even considering it as bad!
So, to be honest... whether or not Escanor is Guilty of his sin may be subjective to the perspective of the other people. He might think he's done nothing wrong... hence the Pride, in fact... he could be guilty of killing kingdoms and being proud of it, and that could count as him being the sin of pride.
I would actually prefer it, if Escanor did NOT know his own sin... That would be interesting
Then we may get more depth as to what his sin actually is/was... and i honestly want Escanor to have a very sad backstory and a horrible sin which he commits... to explain why night mode Esky prefers to be locked up!
He tends to just... lose control every now and again or something.

The only reason i say the 4 horsemen might make an appearance if because the 4 are said to return to earth during a terrible war, to wipe out all life and bring about a new age!

 

[Rarhyx]

Well, i do like the idea of him being Lucifer
Then this entire arc would end up being the sins and help vs the demon army and taking him down?
I do wonder if Nakaba will put the 7 virtues or the 4 horsemen into Taizai though?

The virtues could end up being the last obstacle for the sins and the horsemen might be relevant for the war 3000 year ago?

I think the sins will be later called the 7 virtues because they will overcome their "sins".
and I hope the 4 horsemen will be part of the story, who knows maybe arthur will be one of them?

 

[SpectrumRay16]

I think the sins will be later called the 7 virtues because they will overcome their "sins".
and I hope the 4 horsemen will be part of the story, who knows maybe arthur will be one of them?

Well, i don't think you can overcome your sin... i'm sure they have all accepted that it has happened and some of their sins have actually been cleared up!
and the sins being renamed the virtues doesn't seem that appealing of an idea to me... because the series is called the Seven Deadly Sins!
I think they will always be the seven sins!

But, continuing on with what you are saying...

Diane and Ban's sins no longer have major consequences in the plot, because Matrona, Elaine and the fairy forest are fine!
King had to "overcome" his by killing Helebram... another two times!
Meliodas did his training!
Gowther probably would not care if he knew about his sin, he might just use it for data!
Merlin and Escanor we know nothing about though... These two i can see not being all that bothered with their sins (Minus night Escanor)

if the 4 horsemen/ 4 cardinal virtues do appear... i think it would depend on which one became important!

If it's the 4 Cardinal Virtues i can see them being comprised of Elizabeth, Arthur and perhaps two more people... because of what the CV's stand for.
If it;s the four horsemen, i doubt it because they are technically not good, or evil... they simply wish to bring the world to it's end, based on what the god deemed necessary. They pretty much wiped out humanity in order to "start over"!

 

[kkck]

What's interesting in that panel, is the two central figures, the Goddess one, and the one you said would be the demon king. Not only is he humanoid, but his wings are colored light, in contrast with the demons dark wings.His wings aren't jet black in that panel.
If it's him imo that pretty much confirms that he's a former Goddess clan member, and that he rebelled against them, out of pride most likely.Basically he would be Lucifer, and there's a heavy biblical theme with the demons (10 commandments) etc.

True, lucifer would fit in quite nicely here. However the implication would be that once he left the demon clan the nature of his powers fundamentally changed into demon powers or at least he used his powers to create the demon clan from scratch. So... the color of his wings (light) match his name (lucifer: light bringing, morning star)?

Anyways, perhaps him being a former goddess explains what happened to him. So far it seems like the goddess clan lost their physical form after the war. Probably the same thing happened to the demon king as well, which explains why he hasn't appeared since the commandments were released. Perhaps what signals the beginning of the war is the goddess clan and demon king regaining their powers...

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

True, lucifer would fit in quite nicely here. However the implication would be that once he left the demon clan the nature of his powers fundamentally changed into demon powers or at least he used his powers to create the demon clan from scratch. So... the color of his wings (light) match his name (lucifer: light bringing, morning star)?

Anyways, perhaps him being a former goddess explains what happened to him. So far it seems like the goddess clan lost their physical form after the war. Probably the same thing happened to the demon king as well, which explains why he hasn't appeared since the commandments were released. Perhaps what signals the beginning of the war is the goddess clan and demon king regaining their powers...

If we take the Bible as a source, Lucifer rebelled against God out of pride. One of the motifs of his rebellion was that he refused to bow down to man (Adam).
How does that fit with NnT? Demons hate humans and regard them as inferior. So it's the same as Lucifer. If he was cast away, because he refused humans and was too prideful, then it all makes sense, the bit about demons wanting to wipe out humans.
As for his appearance, you prolly have noticed by now, that there are two types of demons based on their appearance, humanoid ones and non humanoid. We don't know how demons reproduced, but in the bible again we can see that demons who are fallen angels, are often depicted as monstrous creatures, or based on animals, like in the Ars Goetia.

Although that question can be sketchy, as in it is assumed that demons and fallen angels are the same thing, it still remains that demons have normally a rather monstrous appearance, BUT if summoned they can also take a human form! The lesser key of Solomon shows that.
In before we saw that Mel's shadow looks like a monster's, whether it was done for the sake of proving that he's not human, or if it's his real form remains to be seen. But for me we could guess that depending on the demon's origin they could have a humanoid figure or not.
If the demon king was a former Goddess then he can retain a humanoid appearance along with his wings,which is also portrayed in the poster.He would be able to retain the attribute of his original race just like Dolor and Gloxinia are able to retain the attribute of their original clan. So that explains why the DK could look like a Goddess. As for the other demons like the red, gray and blue demons, they might have been created by the DK, thus they were always demons if you will. That's why they were born with that ugly and distorted form, and they don't look humanoid at all.
Maybe such a form is born from the perversion that occured after the DK fell of grace. His appearance could have also changed as a result, but he still has a humanoid figure.

 

[kkck]

If we take the Bible as a source, Lucifer rebelled against God out of pride. One of the motifs of his rebellion was that he refused to bow down to man (Adam).
How does that fit with NnT? Demons hate humans and regard them as inferior. So it's the same as Lucifer. If he was cast away, because he refused humans and was too prideful, then it all makes sense, the bit about demons wanting to wipe out humans.
As for his appearance, you prolly have noticed by now, that there are two types of demons based on their appearance, humanoid ones and non humanoid. We don't know how demons reproduced, but in the bible again we can see that demons who are fallen angels, are often depicted as monstrous creatures, or based on animals, like in the Ars Goetia.


Although that question can be sketchy, as in it is assumed that demons and fallen angels are the same thing, it still remains that demons have normally a rather monstrous appearance, BUT if summoned they can also take a human form! The lesser key of Solomon shows that.
In before we saw that Mel's shadow looks like a monster's, whether it was done for the sake of proving that he's not human, or if it's his real form remains to be seen. But for me we could guess that depending on the demon's origin they could have a humanoid figure or not.
If the demon king was a former Goddess then he can retain a humanoid appearance along with his wings,which is also portrayed in the poster.He would be able to retain the attribute of his original race just like Dolor and Gloxinia are able to retain the attribute of their original clan. So that explains why the DK could look like a Goddess. As for the other demons like the red, gray and blue demons, they might have been created by the DK, thus they were always demons if you will. That's why they were born with that ugly and distorted form, and they don't look humanoid at all.
Maybe such a form is born from the perversion that occured after the DK fell of grace. His appearance could have also changed as a result, but he still has a humanoid figure.

Well, it is not like the demon king has to have exactly the same motivations as the biblical lucifer. If the godess clan thought so highly of humans then they wouldn't somehow manage to be the final enemies in the series as most people here seem to think.

Sure, demons thought of humans as inferior. However in context so does every other clan. Humans are regarded as the weakest and shortest living clan after all. Just look at king, elaine, diane... For them humans are these pesky things whose motivations are hard to understand.

In the bible angels in general are depicted in a number of ways. The winged angels weren't even a thing until the middle ages (IIRC at least). In the bible they appear either as men or some manner of beast. Which is consistent with the demon clan so far. Perhaps the goddess clan will also be like that. As in some looking like your traditional winged angel but others also looking like, say, a wheel of fire.

 

[ShadowHeart]

A fun bit that I hadn't notice before is that blue demons appear in the anime intro:

This being the case then everything in here could be relevant to the plot in the future... No in the sense that each person there was a specific participant in the ancient war but rather that it gives clues as to what happened. The angels are probably what goddess clan members actually look like. Which would suggest there were goddess clan members on both sides of the war. Right on top of the blue demon is another creature with a sword... Perhaps another kind of demon? The image would also suggest there were humans that took the demons side. And the bearded guy at the bottom resembles escanor's wanted poster. There seems to be somethng behind the blue demon....

Could that be the demon king facing the goddess? If so it's highly likely he was a a member of the goddess clan before becoming the demon king.

 

[SpectrumRay16]

Could that be the demon king facing the goddess? If so it's highly likely he was a a member of the goddess clan before becoming the demon king.

It would seem likely that this is the case... however, the design may be different... he might actually have black wings, but, they will be attached to his body?

 

[ShadowHeart]

It would seem likely that this is the case... however, the design may be different... he might actually have black wings, but, they will be attached to his body?

I'm even more convinced now that the goddess is strongest clan. They only needed the help of the other races since the demon clan had more numbers, not to mention other smaller races as well.

 

[SpectrumRay16]

I'm even more convinced now that the goddess is strongest clan. They only needed the help of the other races since the demon clan had more numbers, not to mention other smaller races as well.

I'm of a different mind set... i think the goddess clan and the demon clan were roughly equal in terms of power levels, abilities and strong people within their armies... however, i feel like it would be more interesting if we saw the two clans fighting one another and slowly gaining the help of clans they sought to befriend?
Then, the demon clan did something terrible and the other clans eventually sided with the goddess clan... perhaps the turning of Dolor and Gloxinia made the fairies and giants side against the demons and the humans had already chosen to do this?
Well... most of them, it looks like in that one page to represent the war that there were humans on both sides!

 

[ShadowHeart]

I'm of a different mind set... i think the goddess clan and the demon clan were roughly equal in terms of power levels, abilities and strong people within their armies... however, i feel like it would be more interesting if we saw the two clans fighting one another and slowly gaining the help of clans they sought to befriend?
Then, the demon clan did something terrible and the other clans eventually sided with the goddess clan... perhaps the turning of Dolor and Gloxinia made the fairies and giants side against the demons and the humans had already chosen to do this?
Well... most of them, it looks like in that one page to represent the war that there were humans on both sides!

Really looking forward to the holy war flashback should be epic.

 

[kkck]

Could that be the demon king facing the goddess? If so it's highly likely he was a a member of the goddess clan before becoming the demon king.

Yes, that is my own impression as well. The question that would bring about is how exactly the demon clan started... You have the demon king being presented as someone from the goddess clan there. So either the demon king ended up somehow turned into a demon or the demon race is someone he created but not specifically belonged to. Maybe his conversion to evil itself turned him into a demon... Or maybe it was a curse by the goddesses. Or maybe he simply left the goddess clan and used his goddess powers to create an antithesis to the goddess clan. In the end it does seem like there are at least a really pure demons after all, it doesn't seem like meliodas belonged to another race as he does not have the traits of other races. Unless he started out as a human but given how weak humans have been depicted so far it seems unlikely.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 17, 2016 ---

I'm of a different mind set... i think the goddess clan and the demon clan were roughly equal in terms of power levels, abilities and strong people within their armies... however, i feel like it would be more interesting if we saw the two clans fighting one another and slowly gaining the help of clans they sought to befriend?
Then, the demon clan did something terrible and the other clans eventually sided with the goddess clan... perhaps the turning of Dolor and Gloxinia made the fairies and giants side against the demons and the humans had already chosen to do this?
Well... most of them, it looks like in that one page to represent the war that there were humans on both sides!

With this I can mostly agree. Odds are that each side ended up recruiting all the help they could get as the war dragged on and each ended up with their own shared of races. Even weaker races were considered assets if we consider that even humans participated even though their power is measly by demon standards. I guess it is also plausible the demon clan existed before the demon king and it was the demon king who was converted to it and made their leader... And then through the demon king the clan began assimilating stronger races such as fairies and giants.

 

[SpectrumRay16]

Yes, that is my own impression as well. The question that would bring about is how exactly the demon clan started... You have the demon king being presented as someone from the goddess clan there. So either the demon king ended up somehow turned into a demon or the demon race is someone he created but not specifically belonged to. Maybe his conversion to evil itself turned him into a demon... Or maybe it was a curse by the goddesses. Or maybe he simply left the goddess clan and used his goddess powers to create an antithesis to the goddess clan. In the end it does seem like there are at least a really pure demons after all, it doesn't seem like meliodas belonged to another race as he does not have the traits of other races. Unless he started out as a human but given how weak humans have been depicted so far it seems unlikely.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 17, 2016 ---

With this I can mostly agree. Odds are that each side ended up recruiting all the help they could get as the war dragged on and each ended up with their own shared of races. Even weaker races were considered assets if we consider that even humans participated even though their power is measly by demon standards. I guess it is also plausible the demon clan existed before the demon king and it was the demon king who was converted to it and made their leader... And then through the demon king the clan began assimilating stronger races such as fairies and giants.

I'm curious to see whether or not he was the first of his kind and slowly others started to fall to his side with the corrupted black matter... i wonder if the two hearts is an evolutionary thing that happened for the newer generation of demons, or whether or not the goddess clan also had two hearts?
Perhaps that happened as a result of them drinking the blood? Their bodies underwent some changes as well?
Also, if everyone who drank his blood became a demon and followed him, let's say without question... is the conversion Meliodas mentioned actually a form of returning the demons to their senses and not actually making them swap sides?
Then Meliodas was the only one who wanted to swap sides after he figured out what was happening?
I mean... if the ten commandments are blindly following the demon king and trying to bring him back because of his blood coursing through their veins and forcing them to be loyal to him... it would explain why Dolor and Gloxinia, leaders of their respective races, fell to him and follow him so loyally?

 

[ShadowHeart]

Say the demon king is from the goddess clan before becoming the demon king and Mel father. How would you feel if he was Merlin father when he was a goddess? Which would make Merlin Mel older half-sister.