American Politics

Dragoon

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Sharkbait is a brainwashed bible thumper. He can't think for himself xD. He just repeats what his religion tells him
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Someone would eventually be there so your eliminating the chance that something would have at life. So its a murder of a potential normal human which is very wrong to do. Worst youre assuming that people arent having abortions just because. You also assume only the poor are willing to take stranger's kids. The kids could be smart or very hands on later in life and do great things even if they were in an unpleasant environment its up the kid to do good in life and succeed. Just because a child is born in a situation in which bad life decisions were made doesnt mean their life will be bad.
...
Just because a child is born in a situation in which bad life decisions were made doesnt mean their life will be bad.
DO YOU EVEN BOTHER??? The hypocrisy is choking me x,D
 

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But that's the problem with political correctness for me...

Well good for them, but how is that relevant? I'm sure there are a ton of religious charities that do good things. It doesn't somehow negate the bad things they do or stand for.


Obama didn't have to say they're a horrible group. There's nothing to back that up in any objective way and I don't think that serves his message in any way either.


Why would he even need to give commentary on Italians or Canadians?...

I understand that the president is also a diplomat, but I just take exception with the characterization used in this situation. That's all.
Not wanting to offend people with bad or ignorant statements? Asshats like Trump is the reason why political correctness to a degree is important. Why would you want to say something wrong and ignorant?

They? Are you saying Muslims stand for violence and murder, and that they all hurt people?

Italians and Canadians are examples...

Eh, better than saying nothing at all, although kind of hypocritical here as Obama seems to ignore police who are killed in line of duty... according to my police supporter friends anyway. Though, Obama isn't doing domestic diplomacy too well, and I'm not sure how Bernie would do.

Someone would eventually be there so your eliminating the chance that something would have at life. So its a murder of a potential normal human which is very wrong to do. Worst youre assuming that people arent having abortions just because. You also assume only the poor are willing to take stranger's kids. The kids could be smart or very hands on later in life and do great things even if they were in an unpleasant environment its up the kid to do good in life and succeed. Just because a child is born in a situation in which bad life decisions were made doesnt mean their life will be bad.
So you're okay with a murder of a normal human, but you don't like the idea of a potential normal human being murdered? Refugee children can also be very smart, and they're likely to be smart and work hard because of what they experienced, and they can do great things. I think Steve Jobs is one example of a refugee kid who was smart and did great things.

It's not just up to the kid to do good in life and succeed. You are so embarrassingly ignorant that at this point, I'm sure you grew up in a well-off household. Pregnancy doesn't happen because of bad life decision, and it can be an accident or due to rape. A kid can't do good in life and succeed if he has a bad childhood or if no one encourages him or believes in him, there are many factors for that to happen.

Just because a refugee child was born in a bad area doesn't mean he is a security liability. Stop being so double standard to suit your ignorant, inexperienced views. the more you share your views on subjects like this, the more clear it is that you either haven't seen life as it's like for people who aren't well off or as well off, or you believe the bullshit that conservatives spout. But then again, you don't care about conservatives lying unless it's Cruz, you only care if liberals and democrats lie.
 

xi0

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Worst youre assuming that people arent having abortions just because.
The problem is you're assuming people are. The reality is there's no point in assuming either, since abortion is protected due to the privacy laws in this country. If someone did happen to use abortion as birth control and nothing else, that's still their choice. But I would like to think that most of the people having them aren't taking the decision lightly. Nobody should, whether you're for it or against it.

Not wanting to offend people with bad or ignorant statements? Asshats like Trump is the reason why political correctness to a degree is important. Why would you want to say something wrong and ignorant?
The example here...Obama choosing to not say what he said about Islam being peaceful wouldn't be a bad or ignorant statement. The reality is, a lot of what Trump says is just objectively false. This is what I meant when I said the Right uses the the term PC as a euphemism to say ignorant or incorrect things.

They? Are you saying Muslims stand for violence and murder, and that they all hurt people?
Did I? Pretty sure that's not what I said. I'm talking about religion specifically, not all of the followers of said religion.

Italians and Canadians are examples...
My point is, why would Obama ever need to comment on them and be forced to be "politically correct"? There's nothing controversial going on there, your analogy doesn't really work.

Eh, better than saying nothing at all, although kind of hypocritical here as Obama seems to ignore police who are killed in line of duty... according to my police supporter friends anyway. Though, Obama isn't doing domestic diplomacy too well, and I'm not sure how Bernie would do.
Is it really better than saying nothing at all? He would have said plenty even if he left that notion out. I don't think any Muslim would have felt less supported either. The guy made a point to go to a mosque to give a speech in support of the Muslim community in the US. Either way, people generally look for acceptance within their religious communities, why would they care about whether an outsider thought it was peaceful or not, unless they were open to doubting their own beliefs in the first place?

Define "ignore"? Are your friends up in arms because he mentions the victims of police shootings or gives reaction to it, but doesn't mention every officer killed in the line of duty? That seems like they just have a poor grasp of the actual issue.
 

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So then you're against the death penalty as well? Why is that?
Killing other humans using the law seems wrong as a way of punishment as there is no way to make the death of the killer equivalent to the death and harm placed on others they harmed, solitary confinement or some other means of making them endure lasting guilty, pain, and reflection for their wrong is a better punishment than a loss of their own life.
So you're okay with a murder of a normal human, but you don't like the idea of a potential normal human being murdered? Refugee children can also be very smart, and they're likely to be smart and work hard because of what they experienced, and they can do great things
Are they likely too? There is no benefit to the country that they go to that they would be smart and work hard their. Coming here they would have to start at square one to learn english, then would they even be here long enough to advance through the ranks of grade school to eventually go to college? Lastly, they would then just take their skills back to their home country. There is no benefit, additionally we have seen where terrorists come to American schools, take up engineering, then launch into these terrorist plots on our and other soil. They simply can't be trusted. Refugees have more reasons to be terrorirsts, theyll just be bitter about being kicked out of their country, relocated to another country, and spawn harmful and hateful language towards the ones who were responsible for the problems in their country, civil wars and other issues will ensure. A truly smart and hard working refugee would be better to stay in their home country and work towards prospering their. It will show their ingenuity, resourcefulness, and ensure their children are growing up in an environment filled with their culture and heritage.

Pregnancy doesn't happen because of bad life decision, and it can be an accident or due to rape
Your statement doesnt make sense. Accidental pregnancy is a bad life decision, that just means someone skipped out on their birth control or any other form of safe sex planning (they didnt even need to have sex in the first place). Rape sounds like a bad life decision to me, Ive never seen a situation in which one would put rape in a good life decision.

. A kid can't do good in life and succeed if he has a bad childhood or if no one encourages him or believes in him
This is false, if that was the case then minorities and people of poor upbringing wouldnt be in many leadership positions today, or have contributing many great things to society in the humanities and sciences.
 

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Killing other humans using the law seems wrong as a way of punishment as there is no way to make the death of the killer equivalent to the death and harm placed on others they harmed, solitary confinement or some other means of making them endure lasting guilty, pain, and reflection for their wrong is a better punishment than a loss of their own life.
Even in the cases of mass murder and/or terrorism? I think even Clinton has said she second-guesses being against it in those cases.

At least you're consistent in regards to the perceived "morality" you have towards this issue and abortion. Way too many conservatives are pro death penalty but pro life.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
For me, there's no real full-proof moral argument against being pro-life or pro-choice. It's the fact that it's none of anyone's damn business, and Roe v. Wade backs that up.
 

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Even in the cases of mass murder and/or terrorism? I think even Clinton has said she second-guesses being against it in those cases.
What would a terrorist gain from being put to death when they have suicide bombers and others willing to give up their life for the cause on their side?
 

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What would a terrorist gain from being put to death when they have suicide bombers and others willing to give up their life for the cause on their side?
Well, there's the issue of turning them into martyrs, sure. But not every mass murderer or terrorist has this motivation. Someone like Timothy McVeigh didn't, as he wasn't a jihadist. One of the general arguments for the death penalty is that keeping someone in prison for the rest of their life costs great deal more than executing them. But of course, no one really spends a short amount of time in prison on death row either, so it still costs a lot.

I'm not really for the death penalty, as it's obvious we've killed a lot of innocent people in the past. But special cases are special cases, and sometimes it might be justified.
 

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Well, there's the issue of turning them into martyrs, sure. But not every mass murderer or terrorist has this motivation. Someone like Timothy McVeigh didn't, as he wasn't a jihadist. One of the general arguments for the death penalty is that keeping someone in prison for the rest of their life costs great deal more than executing them. But of course, no one really spends a short amount of time in prison on death row either, so it still costs a lot.

I'm not really for the death penalty, as it's obvious we've killed a lot of innocent people in the past. But special cases are special cases, and sometimes it might be justified.
Money would be saved by just reserving those spaces for more of these type of people and keeping lesser crimes in local and regional jails. Though I think crime would be expected to grow as the population grows unless we allow more surveillance in our lives. But more than that, do they really think cutting costs to maxSecPri would actually put a dent in our debt?
 

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Money would be saved by just reserving those spaces for more of these type of people and keeping lesser crimes in local and regional jails. Though I think crime would be expected to grow as the population grows unless we allow more surveillance in our lives. But more than that, do they really think cutting costs to maxSecPri would actually put a dent in our debt?
But crimes that result in the death penalty aren't always federal ones. Most states have death penalty statutes, but many don't. The difference might not be huge, but it still costs money to house and feed people.

Crime has grown the way it has for the most part due to the so-called "war on drugs" and the laws resulting from that. I think there's something wrong with many prisons being operated by private companies and not the federal and state government. This in effect means that these companies make more money the higher crime is. It's counterproductive to reducing crime on it's own. I'd imagine many of them are subsidized as well in some way, which sort of negates any money that is saved by letting them operate on their own dime instead of the government.
 

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Well, there's the issue of turning them into martyrs, sure. But not every mass murderer or terrorist has this motivation. Someone like Timothy McVeigh didn't, as he wasn't a jihadist. One of the general arguments for the death penalty is that keeping someone in prison for the rest of their life costs great deal more than executing them. But of course, no one really spends a short amount of time in prison on death row either, so it still costs a lot.

I'm not really for the death penalty, as it's obvious we've killed a lot of innocent people in the past. But special cases are special cases, and sometimes it might be justified.
Actually the trials to actually put someone on death penalty are so long and expensive that it's cheaper to keep them locked up for good.
 

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The example here...Obama choosing to not say what he said about Islam being peaceful wouldn't be a bad or ignorant statement. The reality is, a lot of what Trump says is just objectively false. This is what I meant when I said the Right uses the the term PC as a euphemism to say ignorant or incorrect things.


Did I? Pretty sure that's not what I said. I'm talking about religion specifically, not all of the followers of said religion.


My point is, why would Obama ever need to comment on them and be forced to be "politically correct"? There's nothing controversial going on there, your analogy doesn't really work.


Is it really better than saying nothing at all? He would have said plenty even if he left that notion out. I don't think any Muslim would have felt less supported either. The guy made a point to go to a mosque to give a speech in support of the Muslim community in the US. Either way, people generally look for acceptance within their religious communities, why would they care about whether an outsider thought it was peaceful or not, unless they were open to doubting their own beliefs in the first place?

Define "ignore"? Are your friends up in arms because he mentions the victims of police shootings or gives reaction to it, but doesn't mention every officer killed in the line of duty? That seems like they just have a poor grasp of the actual issue.
I generally see complaints about PC as dislike of not being able to say racist or stupid shit, tbh. I think you disagreed with that earlier, but it's hard not to see it otherwise thanks to people like Trump. It's why I don't mind Obama or anyone else bein PC to an extent.

They are examples, hypothetical. Rhetorical. But it's generalization/stereotyping the groups, that's controversial....

Meh, it's just a thought. I'd go further, but I dunno if it's worth it. Either way, I don't see anything wrong with him saying that.

Yeah, or at least officers killed by black guys. Obama doesn't bring up these officers, and they're not happy about it. I'd say they don't understand the actual issue well, but at this point, it's just not worth bringing up. They support the police, and I guess it's mainly because of the firefighter-police brotherhood thing?

Are they likely too? There is no benefit to the country that they go to that they would be smart and work hard their. Coming here they would have to start at square one to learn english, then would they even be here long enough to advance through the ranks of grade school to eventually go to college? Lastly, they would then just take their skills back to their home country. There is no benefit, additionally we have seen where terrorists come to American schools, take up engineering, then launch into these terrorist plots on our and other soil. They simply can't be trusted. Refugees have more reasons to be terrorirsts, theyll just be bitter about being kicked out of their country, relocated to another country, and spawn harmful and hateful language towards the ones who were responsible for the problems in their country, civil wars and other issues will ensure. A truly smart and hard working refugee would be better to stay in their home country and work towards prospering their. It will show their ingenuity, resourcefulness, and ensure their children are growing up in an environment filled with their culture and heritage.
Um, I'm sure the US benefited from Steve Jobs co-founding Apple, making Pixar a quality company, and creating the iPhone. So yeah, there is and are benefits to the country that the refugee children would go. Assuming they don't know English is dumb, especially when babies have to learn English as well, along with everything in life. At least refugee children have a headstart.
Can you prove they would take their skills back to their home country? I asked for proof/stats, but you did not provide any. This leads me to believe you have no basis on what you say but sheer ignorance/brainwashing from your political party. I highly doubt most refugees would go back to their countries as long as there's violence going on.

Where have we seen that? How is that any different from unwanted children joining gangs, mugging people, and selling drugs? Lives are still destroyed, except refugee children are far less likely to do anything remotely terrorist. Provide proof and evidence, otherwise I'm chalking it up to you assuming things ignorantly. Children whose moms couldn't get abortions have more reasons to be liabilities and harmful to society and humanity than refugees have reasons to be terrorists. Pretty sure many of them chose to run away, that they were never kicked out but chose to run away from violence.

What the absolute fuck at your last two sentences? Holy hell, do you know anything about what's going on in other countries? Do you know why there are refugees, why there are children refugees? Jesus fucking Christ, the main reason why anyone would become a refugee is because they want to get away from the violence or bad economic state of their country, not because they just want to migrate to another country. :fail

Seriously, this level of ignorance and stupidity is astounding. So is the hypocrisy of being against abortion because it's killing human lives, but supporting blocking refugee children from entering and not caring about their lives, which is no less than a fetus's life. People who are against abortion aren't against it for morals or conscience if they're against allowing refugee children to seek asylum. We're far much safer from these refugee children than we are from unwanted children anyway, given how well refugees are vetted.


Your statement doesnt make sense. Accidental pregnancy is a bad life decision, that just means someone skipped out on their birth control or any other form of safe sex planning (they didnt even need to have sex in the first place). Rape sounds like a bad life decision to me, Ive never seen a situation in which one would put rape in a good life decision.



This is false, if that was the case then minorities and people of poor upbringing wouldnt be in many leadership positions today, or have contributing many great things to society in the humanities and sciences.
No it's not. Accidental pregnancy is not a bad life decision, and it can happen to a married couple. Have you taken sex ed? You definitely haven't taken sex ed at all, otherwise you'd know birth controls and safe sex planning are not 100% effective. Even vasectomy doesn't prevent pregnancy for sure. Claiming they didn't need to have sex in the first place is dumb.

If you're in any way implying that women make/made a bad life decision to get raped, then you're pretty disgusting. I hope you are not implying this. Claiming rape sounds like a bad life decision doesn't make any sense at all, and it seems like you're blaming women for bein raped.

This is not false at all. There are many people with poor upbringing who became criminals or murderers.
 

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Im glad Trump made his position known, now I can safely avoid voting for him and not feel like it be against my conscious and moral beliefs.
What did you even expect? Trump always tried to bring abortion and gay marriage up as rarely as possible, and he said himself that he doesn't consider those to be big issues. He's already preparing for the general election by ironing out some things that'd make it hard for him to win. He's personally against gay marriage and abortion because of "religion" and personal experience, but the laws for these two are mostly set. I'd say he handled that issue really well.
 

xi0

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He's personally against gay marriage and abortion because of "religion" and personal experience, but the laws for these two are mostly set.
Based on what? What he's said this election cycle? or what he's said for the majority of his public life?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I generally see complaints about PC as dislike of not being able to say racist or stupid shit, tbh. I think you disagreed with that earlier, but it's hard not to see it otherwise thanks to people like Trump. It's why I don't mind Obama or anyone else bein PC to an extent.
Yeah I did, I definitely acknowledge that. My point in bringing this example up is that it does exist in the way that political correctness as a term was originally intended to mean, that's all. Has nothing to do with Trump or the Right or however they choose to bastardize the concept.

They are examples, hypothetical. Rhetorical. But it's generalization/stereotyping the groups, that's controversial....
Yeah but it'd have to be rooted in some reality to be a valid comparison IMO. For us, there's nothing controversial about Canadians or Italians as a group. There's nothing that people feel needs to be addressed/discussed. Not that I'm aware of in present times anyways.

Meh, it's just a thought. I'd go further, but I dunno if it's worth it. Either way, I don't see anything wrong with him saying that.
Go further in what way? So then you're okay with the President pandering if it's something you agree with or don't mind. Fair enough.

Yeah, or at least officers killed by black guys. Obama doesn't bring up these officers, and they're not happy about it. I'd say they don't understand the actual issue well, but at this point, it's just not worth bringing up. They support the police, and I guess it's mainly because of the firefighter-police brotherhood thing?
What does any sort of brotherhood have to do with anything? I don't know, just seems like the type of people that don't understand the nuance of the issue at all, and that him speaking on the police going too far in many cases is admonishing the police in general. I never took that from anything he's said though IIRC.
 

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Yeah, how convenient how one's views just magically change when it's beneficial to them :kappa
The funny thing is that hillary is seen as untrustworthy for far less flip flopping than good old donald (as far as I can tell anyways). It really is incredible how invulnerable donald is to his own words...
 

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Yeah, how convenient how one's views just magically change when it's beneficial to them :kappa
Let's say..."people change"? :kappa At least on abortion I remember him saying that a somewhat recent-ish personal experience changed his mind, so there's that.

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
The funny thing is that hillary is seen as untrustworthy for far less flip flopping than good old donald (as far as I can tell anyways). It really is incredible how invulnerable donald is to his own words...
Would you say she's less untrustworthy than the Donald?
 

xi0

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The funny thing is that hillary is seen as untrustworthy for far less flip flopping than good old donald (as far as I can tell anyways). It really is incredible how invulnerable donald is to his own words...
Prior bias has to do with both of those things. But she does the same shit as well IMO, just not as sloppily.

Let's say..."people change"? :kappa At least on abortion I remember him saying that a somewhat recent-ish personal experience changed his mind, so there's that.
Yeah sure, I just have to put my own well-earned faith in him on that, right? :4head

This is yet another reason why this guy is nothing more than a professional bullshit artist. I get that it's appealing in some way and entertaining, but you can never take anything he says at face value.
 

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Yeah sure, I just have to put my own well-earned faith in him on that, right? :4head

This is yet another reason why this guy is nothing more than a professional bullshit artist. I get that it's appealing in some way and entertaining, but you can never take anything he says at face value.
Oh please, trust is needed to support every and any candidate ever. It just happens that one needs a little bit more trust for him than what's the norm.
 

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Oh please, trust is needed to support every and any candidate ever. It just happens that one needs a little bit more trust for him than what's the norm.
>A little bit more
>:lmao

I don't know, history and record matters as well. Trump can say whatever he wants about his stance on the issues in hindsight, but he wasn't a public servant then, so what does it matter? I guess we're supposed to ignore him being the most famous face of the Obama birther movement as well? Sorry, I don't think the guy has any sort of conviction in what he says, him being more of a social libertarian when he was just a celebrity then him being social conservative in order to court evangelicals, and now him being somewhat ambivalent about it makes my point for me. And I get people wanting to shake up the apple cart and elect an "outsider", but the guy isn't necessarily a fresh face among political circles either. His entire campaign is a mirage.
 
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