Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

  • Total voters
    93

Brandish μ

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You might be right, or not. God Slayers have been shown to be more skilled than Dragon Slayers, GENERALLY. I'm talking about Zancrow and Chelia here, but not about Ogra. Apparently, Zancrow was more powerful than Natsu. Besides, Natsu could not eat his flames unless he was "empty" of his. Which leads me to think that God Slayer flames are superior to Dragon Slayer flames, since Zancrow could actually eat Natsu's flames. Similarly, Chelia was superior to Wendy. Was it due to age? Maybe. Chelia is a tad older than Wendy, and that amounts to more experience. However, Wendy has been through more thorough battles than Chelia (O6, Tenroujima, etc.). That should add up to experience and equalize her. Besides, Chelia was naturally a clumsy person. Still, Chelia was clearly superior to Wendy. Maybe she was comparable to DF Wendy. Why is that so?

I tend to think that the nature of God Slaying magic is superior than that of Dragon Slaying magic. And if that is so, it can only be because Gods are more powerful entities than Dragons. Think of Ankersham, the one of Zeref's curse. He's supposed to be a God and he's probably the most powerful entity in the FT verse, although I doubt he'll ever appear.

As for Laxus vs Ogra, it's a different thing. Not only is Laxus a "different kind of dragon slayer" (second generation I think), but also he's an exception.
Honestly I think you could equate the whole GS v DS situations (for all 3 encounters) to power level and stats. Zancrow was a tier above Natsu on Tenrou. Sherria was a better wizard than Wendy at the GMG. Laxus a better wizard than Orga at the GMG. I mean, Sherria with Third Origin right now doesn't stand a chance against the strongest DS (Acnologia), and she'd lose to DS wizards like God Serena, or Laxus or Natsu... because their powers/stats are higher imo.

The whole eating of GS flames is a good point. Could Zancrow eat Natsu's flames? I don't recall it. If that happened, then I think there is definitely some merit to GS > DS. Maybe slayers can't eat a slayer magic or something, Idk...

Is DF Wendy just not strong enough to affect DiMaria? DF Wendy is around S-class mague, and S-class mague should be able to at least give a decent fight to a Spriggan. Wendy was being fodderized, she couldn't even scratch Dimaria, and let's remember it was not regular DF but complete DF that Wendy had. Wendy should have been able to at least "harm" Dimaria but she clearly was utterly powerless. I think this is an indicator that DF magic is not effective against gods, as much as grown-up Chelia wouldn't have been a match against a dragon but Wendy definetely was.

Could current Natsu beat DiMaria? Well, maybe. Let's remember that current Natsu is probably the most powerful mague from Ishgar. Besides, he already beat a god. Maybe he acquired some God Slayer abilities after eating Zancrow's fire, that we do not know. I don't think that's the case, though; and I think Natsu wouldn't have been able to harm Dimaria. Not because he lacks the offensive or deffensive power, or because he's not fast enough; because he's not "compatible". (Arguably, since he already beat a god)
Yes, DF Wendy isn't strong enough. She might be an S-class, Idk if that matters because I don't think titles really matter. The level of indication DF Wendy provides is limited to DF Wendy's power level. This is someone vastly inferior to a Spriggan. How much of a chance would DF Wendy stand against God Serena? Do you think it's possible God Serena could defeat Chronos without Age Seal?

Current Natsu would beat DiMaria (w/o Age Seal) in the same way he defeated Jacob (w/o Transport). Laxus or Serena would defeat both DiMaria and Jacob without their haxes too imo. It's a takeover, and it's a God, both types have been defeated without any slayer advantage. Essentially a wizard just has to overcome their durability and defence to cause damage. Wahl would beat Chronos without Age Seal as well I believe.

But again, we're implying Dragons' phisicality here. Although I DO think it's a combination between phisicality and compatibility.
After all, Natsu defeated a god, and many FT magues defeated demons. It could very well be possible that "anyone" can "slay" a dragon, a god or a demon if powerful enough, without using magic of that specialty.
Yet I don't want to think too strictly of phisicality, since Kagura was capable of slicing through an entire town, while she couldn't even touch a dragon. What are dragons, multi-city block tanks? Kagura can cut through steel, but she cannot cut through dragon skin.
There's no doubt in my mind that having the slayer advantage or compatibility helps dramatically.

Kagura just proves that a dragons scales are much more tougher than the hardness/strength of rock, cement and other building materials. Igneel for example could level a mountain with his roar (well Motherglare's did), and that type of power doesn't damage Acnologia.

I'm sorry I can't provide a source, but I somewhere read Mashima stated that if Mira and Erza engaged in a fight, Mira would win. Mira relies on skills, while Erza relies more on will. Mira is on par with Erza, which means she's apt for being considered a standard for a powerful wizzard. Mira is clearly not Laxus level, but she's Erza level. She could give some fight to a Spriggan or even beat one, if it's a weak one.

It is clear that Mira is not on a top5 list of pure human wizards, but she's probably Wizard Saint level, and if we do not consider monsters like Glidartz or Hades, she's to be feared. Unless Mashima wants to make her useless.
Let's just say pre-skip Mirajane and Jura were equivalent at the GMG for argument sake. It's still a very long way off Spriggan level, so to use that to gauge how well a strong human might do against a dragon is not going to work. We know dragons are really powerful. For humans, I'm just going to say Spriggan level is the bare minimum you'd need to be for comparison to a dragon like Motherglare or Zilconis. If Wahl got to fight Zilconis then I think we'd be able to make a much better comparison.
 

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Why is Neinhart underestimated like this? He isn't even close to be the weakest Spriggan. I mean, he can summon all the leaders of the Balam Alliance with ease. These three together are already stronger than Wahl and a lot stronger than Ajeel.

It would be more like this:

1). August
He is stated to be the strongest wizard.

2). Irene
She is stated to be the strongest female wizard who is close to be equal with August.

3). Di Maria
No need to explain.

4). Brandish
No need to explain.

5). Bradman
No need to explain, but he is ranked fifth since his magic can be countered.

6). Jacob
Because of Transport. But he has zero intellegence and was blitzed by Happy.

7). Neinhart
Since he can summon multiple mages who are close to be Spriggan tier he is pretty overpowered. He can also counter multiple opponents at once.

8). God Serena
Because he possesses eight powerful spells with different elements.

9). Wahl
Because of Etherion. All his other spells can be tanked pretty easy. Also, his durability is pretty low.

10). Ajeel
No need to explain.
 
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Static

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Why is Neinhart underestimated like this? He isn't even close to be the weakest Spriggan. I mean, he can summon all the leaders of the Balam Alliance with ease. These three together are already stronger than Wahl and a lot stronger than Ajeel.

It would be more like this:

1). August
He is stated to be the strongest wizard.

2). Irene
She is stated to be the strongest female wizard who is close to be equal with August.

3). Di Maria
No need to explain.

4). Brandish
No need to explain.

5). Bradman
No need to explain, but he is ranked fifth since his magic can be countered.

6). Jacob
Because of Transport. But he has zero intellegence and was blitzed by Happy.

7). Neinhart
Since he can summon multiple mages who are close to be Spriggan tier he is pretty overpowered. He can also counter multiple opponents at once.

8). God Serena
Because he possesses eight powerful spells with different elements.

9). Wahl
Because of Etherion. All his other spells can be tanked pretty easy. Also, his durability is pretty low.

10). Ajeel
No need to explain.
I agree with that list entirely but I would put GS above Neinhart and Wahl and Neinhart tied.
 

Char

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Honestly I think you could equate the whole GS v DS situations (for all 3 encounters) to power level and stats. Zancrow was a tier above Natsu on Tenrou. Sherria was a better wizard than Wendy at the GMG. Laxus a better wizard than Orga at the GMG. I mean, Sherria with Third Origin right now doesn't stand a chance against the strongest DS (Acnologia), and she'd lose to DS wizards like God Serena, or Laxus or Natsu... because their powers/stats are higher imo.
I agree with everything you just said. While I consider third origin Sherria to be Erza tier, I still think Erza would be as innefective against Dimaria as DF Wendy was. But they should be on the same level.

The whole eating of GS flames is a good point. Could Zancrow eat Natsu's flames? I don't recall it. If that happened, then I think there is definitely some merit to GS > DS. Maybe slayers can't eat a slayer magic or something, Idk...
God Slayers can eat their element from Dragon Slayers, but not the other way round. DS can only eat GS element if they're empty of power. Natsu emptied himself to 0%, and then ate the God Slayer's flames. Then he was able to combine DS and GS magic and managed to beat Zancrow. I don't think Natsu ever used his GS magic, unless he assimilated it (he only used black flames once). But yes, indeed, GS magic proves to be more effective than DS magic, in general.

Yes, DF Wendy isn't strong enough. She might be an S-class, Idk if that matters because I don't think titles really matter.
S-class tier, not S-class as in a title. What I mean is that DF Wendy should be around Erza's or Mira's level. Only when her DF is complete.

The level of indication DF Wendy provides is limited to DF Wendy's power level. This is someone vastly inferior to a Spriggan. How much of a chance would DF Wendy stand against God Serena? Do you think it's possible God Serena could defeat Chronos without Age Seal?
I think Complete DF Wendy capable of fighting the likes of Ajeel or Neinhart (notice, not winning, but fighting) just as much as Erza was. Wendy is vastly inferior to a Spriggan, and regular DF Wendy as well, but complete DF Wendy is fast and deadly. Still, Complete DF Wendy wouldn't be capable of doing much against Serena: Wizard Saint tier > S class tier. DF Wendy is inferior to Jura, so vastly inferior to God Serena. But she's still quite powerful. More powerful than Base Gray, and maybe on par with DeS Gray if you ask me.
And to your last question, no, Dimaria is a league above God Serena, and a league above most characters who can't counter her.

Current Natsu would beat DiMaria (w/o Age Seal) in the same way he defeated Jacob (w/o Transport).
Jason proved to be a good hand to hand fighter. DiMaria can shoot something similar to a "ki blast", the likes of Freezer's, fast enough so Natsu can't dodge it, and deadly enough to penetrate and damange vital organs. I think DiMaria is above Natsu. Base Natsu at least.

Laxus or Serena would defeat both DiMaria and Jacob without their haxes too imo.
I'm not so sure about that. Of course "there'd be a battle", unlike if she could use her hax. But win her? She's still very overpowered even without her hax.

Let's just say pre-skip Mirajane and Jura were equivalent at the GMG for argument sake. It's still a very long way off Spriggan level, so to use that to gauge how well a strong human might do against a dragon is not going to work. We know dragons are really powerful. For humans, I'm just going to say Spriggan level is the bare minimum you'd need to be for comparison to a dragon like Motherglare or Zilconis. If Wahl got to fight Zilconis then I think we'd be able to make a much better comparison.
Agreed. However, saying that GMG Jura or Makarov are "very long way off Spriggan level" is ambitious. GMG Jura = GMG Laxus. GMG Makarov is probably a liiittle bit below GMG Laxus. Current Laxus is above current Jura, but not by that big of a gap. And current Laxus is Spriggan tier... Jura must be near spriggan tier as well, God Serena was just overkill. I think Laxus would've been utterly defeated by God Serena as well.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Why is Neinhart underestimated like this? He isn't even close to be the weakest Spriggan. I mean, he can summon all the leaders of the Balam Alliance with ease. These three together are already stronger than Wahl and a lot stronger than Ajeel.

It would be more like this:

1). August
He is stated to be the strongest wizard.

2). Irene
She is stated to be the strongest female wizard who is close to be equal with August.

3). Di Maria
No need to explain.

4). Brandish
No need to explain.

5). Bradman
No need to explain, but he is ranked fifth since his magic can be countered.

6). Jacob
Because of Transport. But he has zero intellegence and was blitzed by Happy.

7). Neinhart
Since he can summon multiple mages who are close to be Spriggan tier he is pretty overpowered. He can also counter multiple opponents at once.

8). God Serena
Because he possesses eight powerful spells with different elements.

9). Wahl
Because of Etherion. All his other spells can be tanked pretty easy. Also, his durability is pretty low.

10). Ajeel
No need to explain.
By powerscaling and implications (not to be taken too seriously):

God Serena > Jura + Wolfheim + Warrod + Hyberion

Wolfheim > Jellal
Warrod > Jellal
Hyberion > Jellal

Jellal > Neinhart

Then, God Serena >>>>>> Neinhart

That stands for me. Neinhart was OHKOed by a Wizard Saint tier. His magic was interesting, but all he did was attack a bunch of exhausted magues, most of which were still capable of beating his illusions. Not to mention he cannot summon anyone stronger than himself, or anyone who's alive. Probably the major threat he can summon is Ur, Kyoka or Hades. Ur was ultimately defeated; Kyoka was intimidated by her enemy's look and Hades was defeated by a severely wounded Laxus. Then, again, he was OHKOed.

He didn't summon Zero or Mard Geer. Probably because the latter is more powerful than himself. And the former wouldn't have been much of a threat by now, would he? I mean, the fact that he was careless not to summon more foes if he actually could proves he's overconfident, and that is a weakness as well. Particularly if you're not too strong phisically and you rely on your summonings to defend yourself.

WEAK. Actually I think Ajeel could easily defeat him.
 
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Axiomus

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For the whole Dragon Slayer vs God Slayer debate. God Slayers can prevent having their elements eaten by another slayer, so they are superior to other slayers in that respect. In terms of fighting another dragon slayer of the same element, they have an advantage there. That advantage would dissipate if they are up against dragon slayers with a different element or multiple elements though. A fire god slayer wouldn't have any sort of an advantage against an iron dragon slayer. Dragon Slayers have the advantage in raw power and physical stats. At the same MP levels a GS might be more effective than a DS. However, a DS generally has the potential to obtain higher MP levels because their powers are based off that of a dragon.

Honestly, God Serena is probably a lot stronger than we gave him credit for, if only for the fact that we've never seen him cycle through all eight of his dragon slaying magic. We all just assumed the Ishgar Saints were fodders, but in reality they should have all probably been stronger than GMG Laxus (Jura was a clear match). What God Serena did was essentially low diff 4 GMG Laxus level opponents, which puts him at the top as far as track record goes. He's the only Spriggan to have actually beaten high level opponents.If he faces Neinhart, any Historia weaker than Jura would be on the ground before he even resorts to dragon slaying magic. Anybody stronger would be unlikely to last through a full cycle of all 8 dragon slaying magic.

As for Neinhart's rank. I respect him as much as any other Spriggan, but I don't have him above the rest. His durability should be on the same level as Ajeel, Jacob, or Brandish. He relies on his Historia, which has the potential to be powerful depending on who he is facing. That said, Hades was arguably Neinhart's strongest summon, and someone of current Laxus' level was able to take him out with a single lightning dragon's jaw. Had Laxus been fresh and gone after Hades like he did Ajeel, he would likely have oneshotted Hades. The fact that Neinhart fights with his Historia and the face that his Historia are all below Spriggan level means that Neinhart is limited to the type of attacks he can use.
 
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Why are we even comparing Neinhart's physical feats with God Serena while it is his magic that makes him powerful?

Yes, when it comes to durability:

God Serena >>> Neinhart

But when it comes to attack and defense:

Neinhart >>> God Serena

Why? Because Neinhart has a legion.

We shouldn't compare God Serena with Neinhart, but God Serena with Neinhart's legion created by Historia of Corpses.

Once we compare what we've seen from Neinhart's magic and God Serena in this arc, it seems pretty logic that:

Hades, Ur, Kyôka, Ikaruga, Azuma, Keyes, Zancrow, Ezel & Simon >>>>>>>> God Serena

Neinhart's magic is capable of a lot more than God Serena's magic.
 

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Ranking the Spriggan 12 thus far would go something like this:

1) August

Self explanatory, considered the strongest mage past and present aka August > All mages in earthland history. The pinacle of the human race if you will. Knows more magic then an immortal genius who himself has lived for over 400 years and has magical power that trumps that of Invel/Serena/Dimaria/Brandish/Ajeel (according to Makarov). According to Brandish, who had just seen Natsu handily defeat Jacob, August would stomp Natsu. He also has a feat of creating a barrier sturdy enough to completely nullify an attack on the level of a dragons roar (Laxuses huge nuke). Dudes an absolute monster.

2) Irene

Second only to August, and only marginally weaker. Already has AoE that could be sensed from accross Ishgal and could change the very landscape itself. Most importantly, she is planning on taking on Acnologia head-on (in his dragon state no less), the same guy who effortlessly one-shotted God Serena.

3) Bradman

We haven't seen everything he has to offer, in fact, the fight has only just really began and by the end of it I wouldn't be surprised if Gajeel gets help from people beyond just Levy (who herself already has a perfect counter to Bradmans power), like maybe Rogue and Sting. In a sense I am putting him this high based on expectation (I already view Gajeel as someone who is or should be Spriggan level alone). Though what he has shown so far is impressive. He has a form of intangibility so all physical attacks are useless against him, on top of that he has poison that withers his opponents down over time, unlucky for him he is facing Gajeel who should be very resistent to said poison by now. His skull reaper attack also seems to be unavoidable and it did manage to injure Gajeel so it should be fairly powerful.

4) Dimaria

Age Seal is quite possibly the strongest magic in the manga but I believe it has its restrictions. For starters I don't think it works on characters above her weight class, Kagura for example was able to determine that time had stopped, granted it still worked on her but she was powerful enough to at least realize that time had stopped. Secondly I believe it has an AoE, she puts up a barrier that reaches out to a certain extent and time within that barrier stops whereas everything outside of it moves at a normal pace. With that said, I am honestly not even sure whether it would work on a Spriggan, let alone one that is more powerful so I'll just leave her here for now. Her God Takeover is powerful but not ubber powerful.

5) Brandish

Mass manipulation is OP but just like Age Seal I believe it has its restrictions. I want to see her in battle before putting her higher or lower. It could very well be that she's meant to be a support type rather then a direct confrontational fighter which would put her a lot lower on the list, though with a title like nation destroyer that's hard to imagine.

6) Wahl Icht

Heavily underrated accross the board. Dude is downright immune to a plethora of different types of magic, besides lightning he is also immune to every type of Sensorary distortion (such as Midnights magic and Kyoukas curse) as well as natural hazards such as poisons (from Cobra, Bradman, Torafusa etc......). On top of that he has an innate ability to determine his opponents weaknesses and create counter measures to them. His physical strength can match current Laxuses in a fight and he has an Etherion Gun which might just be the most powerful attack in the series used by a single Mage thus far (granted it needs charging). Even his casual attacks in assault mode are powerful enough to injure someone of Laxuses caliber and the attack that only grazed him managed to scorch the sky itself. His durability is actually fairly high, being able to come out of the receiving end of Laxuses blows unscathed. People seem to overlook the fact that Laxuses finisher against him was super effective as it was still a form of lightning, simply a form of it that he had never seen before and therefore never developed an immunity against. I'm not sure why I ain't even putting him higher in all honesty, I kinda convinced myself.

7) Ajeel

He is also fairly underrated. He doesn't have all that much direct fire power but he makes up for it with his haxxed abilities. He has sand body which basically makes him immune to all solid objects. He can make different landforms of sand that could likely reconstruct themselves (like that golem) and one of the most powerful magics in the series is Sand World. Something which not only shuts down his opponents sight sense but enables him to merge with his sand, at which point the only way to defeat him is to hit him when he materializes to attack, but that's hard to do given that you wouldn't be able to see him and he himself is fairly fast. If not for his arrogance he could also be higher on the list, unfortunatly though his arrogance makes him do stupid things like grabbing his opponents rather then just kiting them from afar within sand world. He can also use his sand as a powerful shield (easily block Jupiter) and his Sand Pit and Sand Tsunami are impossible to counter for pure physical fighters.

8) God Serena

Unlike the above two this guy tends to be criminally overrated, and this is coming from a fan. I've seen people putting him on the same pedestal as the likes of August........just no. I suppose that's because he lacks feats. The only ones he has consists of spamming his opponents with multiple weak dragon slaying magic, magic which it took just under a handful of to defeat the already heavily injured Ishval Saints, whom all have durability and endurance comparable to that of Juras (aka not the highest in the series to say the least). Granted, those were likely basic attacks and he still has roars and secret arts under his belt but still. There is nothing overly special to him yet beyond being a decently hard hitter and having a degree of immunity to several types of magic. I really hope he gets to show us more magic that could make him stand-out.

9) Jacob

This dudes alright. Sure he is a good CQC fighter and he has a decent magic to match and aid/support his fighting style but nothing about him really stood out. His camouflage seems potent at first but really all you need to do is have something in your arsenal that has a large AoE to hit and reveal him. His physical strength and durability are high but that wouldn't get him overly far against his Spriggan peers or anyone in their level (like Natsu).

10) Neinhart

Inconsistency. His level of strength is solely dependent on his opponent because he didnt show anything worth while to show that he could fight for himself. With that said he could go higher on the list depending on who it is that he's fighting and he's best against multiple people (because he gets more memories to pull from), but I can't put him any higher because of that one huge flaw in his Historia magic.

Why is Neinhart underestimated like this? He isn't even close to be the weakest Spriggan. I mean, he can summon all the leaders of the Balam Alliance with ease. These three together are already stronger than Wahl and a lot stronger than Ajeel.
You are forgetting just how circumstantial Neinharts power is. He can't just summon all the leaders of the Balam Alliance, he needs his opponent to have memories of all three said leaders for him to be capable of summoning them. If he faces someone like Gajeel who knows virtually no one impressive (comparatively speaking) that's dead who is Neinhart going to summon? On the other hand if he fights someone like Natsu he would have a ton of leverage over him.

For Sand World specifically a dragon can still fly in it, and by extension out of it. Even so, Ajeel probably doesn't have an offensive move that can hurt a dragon though. Others like Wahl would probably fair better, and we'll see August and Irene eventually, I imagine they'll have considerable firepower.
Yeah Ajeel doesn't have much in way of offence. The only thing I can see working is his moisture absorption but that would likely take time with a dragon, even if he gets contact.

I can agree DS magic levels the playing field. Even without knowing the exact mechanism, we know relatively speaking that DS magic > other magic against dragons. Whether it negates resistance, or is super effective, in the end it's the same thing. I agree if current Erza has DS magic she'll do well against a dragon, a slayer tech equivalent to Nakagami would be pretty effective.
We know that dragon saying magic is dragon magic so when a dragon slayer is fighting a dragon, its essentially dragon Vs dragon. I'd like to think that that indicates a level playing field.

A lot of things seem casual when we're talking really strong beings. I felt Igneel put a lot of power in it, like it was a serious roar. It's just he can't exhaust himself easily because he's really strong. I was using Igneel's power level and roar, to compare to IgNatsu and Zeref, the latter being the strongest character other than Acnologia right now. If the flames of Igneel are enough to rock Zeref, it speaks to the impressiveness of a dragons physical being imo, given Igneel's roar wasn't much of a thing to Acnologia. I'm not sure if my comparison is seamless, it's just the basis I find easiest to work with.
That's fair.
 
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Axiomus

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Why are we even comparing Neinhart's physical feats with God Serena while it is his magic that makes him powerful?

Yes, when it comes to durability:

God Serena >>> Neinhart

But when it comes to attack and defense:

Neinhart >>> God Serena

Why? Because Neinhart has a legion.

We shouldn't compare God Serena with Neinhart, but God Serena with Neinhart's legion created by Historia of Corpses.

Once we compare what we've seen from Neinhart's magic and God Serena in this arc, it seems pretty logic that:

Hades, Ur, Kyôka, Ikaruga, Azuma, Keyes, Zancrow, Ezel & Simon >>>>>>>> God Serena

Neinhart's magic is capable of a lot more than God Serena's magic.

Even if Neinhart has a legion, nobody in that legion has better attacks than God Serena. At best, Neinhart can produce some decent high level WS meat-shields. Shouldn't be a problem for Serena, given that even without his DS magic he can still fodderize the Ishgar Saints. Ikaruga, Azuma, Keith, Ezel, Zancrow, Ur, Kyouka, and Simon are all individually weaker than someone like Jura. God Serena won't even have to resort to using dragon slaying magic to take out these guys. Hades is easily the strongest person on this list, and he can be taken out with any attack on the same level as current Laxus' lightning dragon's jaw. Any of Serena's dragon slaying attacks would do the job.

Assuming that Neinhart can even summon all these people against God Serena in a 1v1 match, you know that all God Serena has to do to put down Neinhart is target Neinhart himself right? If they were fighting on the boat Erza was fighting on, he could have easily just hit all the historias and Neinhart with his attacks.
 
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Ajeel struggled quite a bit with just Erza, who in turn still struggles with Azuma, Kyouka, and Ikaruga.
You aren't taking into account that both Azuma and Ikaruga noted that Erza wasn't at full power due to her injuries. In fact, they claimed that she was weaker then when they had fought her, which puts her significantly below the Erza that fought Ajeel. Also, its worth noting that Ajeel was at quite the disadvantage. A ground Mage who was fighting Erza several kilometres in the air on a small boat.

I think many people neglect the fact that God Serena technically manage to wipe the floor with the Ishgar Saints without even resorting to his dragon slaying magic. The only reason he even needed to use it was because he got overconfident and decided to poke fun at the Saints as they started attacking him. The DS magic was overkill.
I disagree, the Wizard Saints were the ones who underestimated Serenas power. They hadn't gone all out and thats why they were temporarily taken down but once they went on the counter attack they started pressuring Serena to the point that Jacob (who had seen Serenas base power mind you) thought he should help out and Serena decided to use his DS magic. I'd say that:

Full power Serena >> Hyberion + Wolfheim + Warrod + Jura > Base Serena. In fact, I think Hyberion with some Warrod support would be enough to take down base Serena. Wolfheim and Jura did not do anything beyond keep Serena suspended in the air for a few extra seconds.

Ajeel doesn't have the ability to turn himself into sand and let stuff pass right through him. He has the ability to turn whatever touches him into sand so that it scatters harmlessly off his body.
He has both. According to Makarov he could also assimilate into the sand which means to cause someone or something to be absorbed into something as to become one with it. Its an often overlooked ability of to his.
 

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For the whole Dragon Slayer vs God Slayer debate. God Slayers can prevent having their elements eaten by another slayer, so they are superior to other slayers in that respect. In terms of fighting another dragon slayer of the same element, they have an advantage there. That advantage would dissipate if they are up against dragon slayers with a different element or multiple elements though. A fire god slayer wouldn't have any sort of an advantage against an iron dragon slayer.
Agreed.

Dragon Slayers have the advantage in raw power and physical stats. At the same MP levels a GS might be more effective than a DS. However, a DS generally has the potential to obtain higher MP levels because their powers are based off that of a dragon.
When was that proven?

Honestly, God Serena is probably a lot stronger than we gave him credit for, if only for the fact that we've never seen him cycle through all eight of his dragon slaying magic. We all just assumed the Ishgar Saints were fodders, but in reality they should have all probably been stronger than GMG Laxus (Jura was a clear match).
100% my point. At the GMG, the Gods of Ishgar were hyped to huge extents. Jura "could not even compare" to the likes of these 4 monsters, and he was "the strongest human". God Serena handily fought 3 Gods of Ishgar + Jura, the "strongest human". God Serena is one of the strongest Spriggan indeed.

What God Serena did was essentially low diff 4 GMG Laxus level opponents,
One GMG Laxus level opponent and three seemingly massively stronger-than-GMG Laxus level opponents.

which puts him at the top as far as track record goes. He's the only Spriggan to have actually beaten high level opponents.If he faces Neinhart, any Historia weaker than Jura would be on the ground before he even resorts to dragon slaying magic. Anybody stronger would be unlikely to last through a full cycle of all 8 dragon slaying magic.
Not even everything he summoned fighting together against him, including Ur, Hades or Kyoka, would've even scratched him. The result would be the same as against the 4 Wizard Saints.

As for Neinhart's rank. I respect him as much as any other Spriggan, but I don't have him above the rest. His durability should be on the same level as Ajeel, Jacob, or Brandish.
Or below. It took a single spell to defeat him.

He relies on his Historia, which has the potential to be powerful depending on who he is facing. That said, Hades was arguably Neinhart's strongest summon, and someone of current Laxus' level was able to take him out with a single lightning dragon's jaw. Had Laxus been fresh and gone after Hades like he did Ajeel, he would likely have oneshotted Hades. The fact that Neinhart fights with his Historia and the face that his Historia are all below Spriggan level means that Neinhart is limited to the type of attacks he can use.
Yes, indeed.

But when it comes to attack and defense:

Neinhart >>> God Serena
You've got to be kidding me.

Why? Because Neinhart has a legion.
A legion of previously powerful foes who are now fodder.

We shouldn't compare God Serena with Neinhart, but God Serena with Neinhart's legion created by Historia of Corpses.
Even if he created an army which included the whole Tartaros and Grimoire Heart, Ur and anyone else; all of these enemies, even if combined, are no threat for God Serena.

Once we compare what we've seen from Neinhart's magic and God Serena in this arc, it seems pretty logic that:

Hades, Ur, Kyôka, Ikaruga, Azuma, Keyes, Zancrow, Ezel & Simon >>>>>>>> God Serena
You can't be serious. Do you seriously think, after having seen the extent of Serena's magic, that any of these enemies or even all of them combined could even get close to Serena? They'd all be defeated before they can cast any spell. Maybe Hades, Ur and Kyoka would last a few more seconds than the rest. Think of this: God Serena effortlessly beat Jura, one of the strongest humans; Warrod, very old and experienced mague who can create a 2000 km tree in a matter of minutes and masters nature; Wolfheim, the most experienced user of Take Over and apparently given the title of a God for his abilities; and Hyberion, someone who uses vampiric magic which is supposed to be very very very powerful. They were all respected men, the three strongest magues from Ishgar after Serena deserted, and average magues such as Levy would even sweat at their presence, not to mention that Ooba, a guild master and an experienced mague, made fun of someone who considered them on Jura's level, stating they were many leagues above him.

They weren't fodders. It is very, very likely that Warrod, Hyberion and Wolfheim hold similar powress to Laxus; and still, they were fodderized. Do you understand the extent of God Serena??

God Serena was probably fodderized by Acnologia not because he's massively superior (which I wouldn't want to deny that he is). I'd like to attribute it to the fact that he was rather distracted. And if he wasn't distracted and the reason he was OHKOed is because his reaction speed was not enough to dodge Acnologia's attack, I'd still like to think that, were their speeds equalized, God Serena would give a good battle to our main enemy.
 
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Axiomus

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You aren't taking into account that both Azuma and Ikaruga noted that Erza wasn't at full power due to her injuries. In fact, they claimed that she was weaker then when they had fought her, which puts her significantly below the Erza that fought Ajeel. Also, its worth noting that Ajeel was at quite the disadvantage. A ground Mage who was fighting Erza several kilometres in the air on a small boat.

I disagree, the Wizard Saints were the ones who underestimated Serenas power. They hadn't gone all out and thats why they were temporarily taken down but once they went on the counter attack they started pressuring Serena to the point that Jacob (who had seen Serenas base power mind you) thought he should help out and Serena decided to use his DS magic. I'd say that:

Full power Serena >> Hyberion + Wolfheim + Warrod + Jura > Base Serena. In fact, I think Hyberion with some Warrod support would be enough to take down base Serena. Wolfheim and Jura did not do anything beyond keep Serena suspended in the air for a few extra seconds.

He has both. According to Makarov he could also assimilate into the sand which means to cause someone or something to be absorbed into something as to become one with it. Its an often overlooked ability of to his.
Well, fair enough on Erza being injured.

Warrod said thought that he was going to die. He was ready to die to bring God Serena down. I just can't see how even if they underestimated God Serena that, how they would have been beaten to that point.

When did Makarov say that?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
When was that proven?
Natsu was able to shatter the god of war with his FDK demolition fist. It costs Acnologia an arm to slay Igneel. The strongest god slayer to date is 3rd origin Chelia. The strongest dragon slayer to date is Acnologia. Wendy's barriers can provide adequate protection against Dimaria's full powered attack. I very much doubt it would do anything against an attack from a dragon Metallica's level or stronger. Dragons are simply tougher enemies to slay.

Ankhseram might be the exception to this rule, but it's debatable if Ankhseram even has a body at all. No god slayer bases their magic off Ankhseram either. Zeref's black magic is probably the closest thing to it. Dragons like Igneel have the power to incinerate Zeref's black magic, and Igneel-powered Natsu had the potential to kill Zeref.

There was a time where Zancrow and Chelia were ahead of Natsu and Wendy, but now all that has changed with Natsu obtaining FDK and Wendy obtaining Dragon Force. If we compare FDK Natsu vs Zancrow, Natsu would oneshot Zancrow. If we compare DF Wendy vs Chelia (no third origin), DF Wendy would be solidly ahead of Chelia. Finally we have Orga and Laxus, and well...there's not much of a comparison here.
 
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You've got to be kidding me.
No, I'm not. Neinhart could cast an army that will outclass God Serena in attack and defense.

A legion of previously powerful foes who are now fodder.
You're joking right? The three leaders of the Balam Alliance aren't even close to be fodder. Mard Geer is already Spriggan tier himself.

Even if he created an army which included the whole Tartaros and Grimoire Heart, Ur and anyone else; all of these enemies, even if combined, are no threat for God Serena.
Lol. Only Etherious Kyôka and Etherious Seilah are needed to low diff him.

You can't be serious. Do you seriously think, after having seen the extent of Serena's magic, that any of these enemies or even all of them combined could even get close to Serena? They'd all be defeated before they can cast any spell. Maybe Hades, Ur and Kyoka would last a few more seconds than the rest. Think of this: God Serena effortlessly beat Jura, one of the strongest humans; Warrod, very old and experienced mague who can create a 2000 km tree in a matter of minutes and masters nature; Wolfheim, the most experienced user of Take Over and apparently given the title of a God for his abilities; and Hyberion, someone who uses vampiric magic which is supposed to be very very very powerful. They were all respected men, the three strongest magues from Ishgar after Serena deserted, and average magues such as Levy would even sweat at their presence, not to mention that Ooba, a guild master and an experienced mague, made fun of someone who considered them on Jura's level, stating they were many leagues above him.
Yes, the three strongest living humans.

At this point Jura is pretty useless.

They weren't fodders. It is very, very likely that Warrod, Hyberion and Wolfheim hold similar powress to Laxus; and still, they were fodderized. Do you understand the extent of God Serena??
They may be, but they still won't stop Neinhart's army.

God Serena was probably fodderized by Acnologia not because he's massively superior (which I wouldn't want to deny that he is). I'd like to attribute it to the fact that he was rather distracted. And if he wasn't distracted and the reason he was OHKOed is because his reaction speed was not enough to dodge Acnologia's attack, I'd still like to think that, were their speeds equalized, God Serena would give a good battle to our main enemy.
I don't blame God Serena for being defeated by Acnologia. Any Spriggan except Di Maria would.
 

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Kyouka and Seilah would get low diffed by Serena. Mard is no Spriggan.

Acnologia would destroy Dimaria. Even if Dimaria has him trapped in Age Seal, she has no way of taking him out even with God Soul. Acnologia would just wait for the moment she stops using Age Seal, and then tear a hole through her. This is.assuming Acnologia doesn't just fly in from the other side of the country and drop a roar on her.
 
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Some things to comment on:

i) Simply adding numbers don't change the outcome of a fight, the added numbers have to actually have something to bring to the table against their foes. The majority of the characters who are being listed are literal fodder for someone of Serenas caliber.

ii) Dimaria ain't surviving any longer then Serena did against Acnologia. The only Spriggan who don't get downright one-shotted off the gate are Bradman, August and Irene. Even with Bradman, once Acnologia realizes that physical attacks are useless against him he should make quick work of him. So Irene and August are the only Spriggan who can actually pose any sort of challenge.

iii) Too many excuses for Serena are being made. Even if speed was equalized Acnologia would still make quick work of him, the gap in raw power was simply oceanic.

iiii) The Ishval Saint hype is blown completely out of proportion. Its not much hype at all in all honesty, their durability and endurance were no greater then that of Juras, even the guy who used take-over. Wolfheim and Hyberion have better offence then Jura, but in the formers case its clearly not by that much. All of their magic was sub-par by current standards, Hyberion is the only one who was actually semi-competent and Warrod is a pretty good support.

Warrod said thought that he was going to die. He was ready to die to bring God Serena down. I just can't see how even if they underestimated God Serena that, how they would have been beaten to that point.
Same way they were doing it. Serena even said that they could actually accomplish something when they tried, implying that they had not tried beforehand. I'd imagine that if a fight between Hyberion + Warrod Vs Base Serena rolled around, Warrod would provide support with his immensely fast trees as a way to ward Serena off while Hyberion gradually chipped away at Serenas magic with his own. Serena would probably land a few hits in but if the duo go all-out from the start I see them eventually taking the W.

When did Makarov say that?
Chapter 446 page 25.
 

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No, I'm not. Neinhart could cast an army that will outclass God Serena in attack and defense.
No, he most definetely won't.

You're joking right? The three leaders of the Balam Alliance aren't even close to be fodder. Mard Geer is already Spriggan tier himself.
As @Axiomus said, Mard is no Spriggan. Well, extremely low tier Spriggan, if you allow me. He's definetely more powerful than Neinhart, reason why he didn't (couldn't) summon him. That downplays Neinhart even more... But were him able to summon Mard, God Serena still low-diffs him.

Lol. Only Etherious Kyôka and Etherious Seilah are needed to low diff him.
Actually it's pretty much the other way round. God Serena null-diffs them.

Yes, the three strongest living humans.
Well, not "quite". The strongest living human was supposed to be Jura (only surpassed by Laxus and Glidartz at the moment of the statement, i.e. GMG). The Gods of Ishgar aren't purely "human".

At this point Jura is pretty useless.
He's still top 15 Ishgar. He's high tier. No, he's not useless. He was not fodderized, it's simply that Serena was too OP. He's still GMG Laxus tier, if not current Laxus tier (we don't know that, since they haven't fought).

They may be, but they still won't stop Neinhart's army.
Hyberion, Wolfheim and Warrod are probably enough to take out your almighty army. God Serena sh**s on them.

I don't blame God Serena for being defeated by Acnologia. Any Spriggan except Di Maria would.
DiMaria's hax is not working against Acnologia, otherwise it'd be too easy and Zeref wouldn't need a million soldiers army + 12 OP magues + Ishgar (Fairy Heart) + himself to defeat him.

Kyouka and Seilah would get low diffed by Serena. Mard is no Spriggan.

Acnologia would destroy Dimaria. Even if Dimaria has him trapped in Age Seal, she has no way of taking him out even with God Soul. Acnologia would just wait for the moment she stops using Age Seal, and then tear a hole through her. This is.assuming Acnologia doesn't just fly in from the other side of the country and drop a roar on her.
Indeed. That is, if age seal works on someone with a massive amount of MP as Acnologia. He can probably counter it.

Some things to comment on:

i) Simply adding numbers don't change the outcome of a fight, the added numbers have to actually have something to bring to the table against their foes. The majority of the characters who are being listed are literal fodder for someone of Serenas caliber.
Right. Serena is well above anything Neinhart summoned thus far, even if they fight together.

ii) Dimaria ain't surviving any longer then Serena did against Acnologia. The only Spriggan who don't get downright one-shotted off the gate are Bradman, August and Irene. Even with Bradman, once Acnologia realizes that physical attacks are useless against him he should make quick work of him. So Irene and August are the only Spriggan who can actually pose any sort of challenge.
I think you've got a point. Dimaria and Serena get killed instantly. Then Bradman, since he's incorporeal, might last for some more seconds until Acnologia roar-deintegrates him. As for August/Irene, I'm not sure how they'd (they'll?) hold their own against Acno.

iii) Too many excuses for Serena are being made. Even if speed was equalized Acnologia would still make quick work of him, the gap in raw power was simply oceanic.
With speed equalized, the massive gap would be closed a little. Serena would still be killed but Acnologia would suffer some damage, I'm pretty sure. God Serena is the most powerful DS so far, after Acno himself and most likely Igneel-powered Natsu.

iiii) The Ishval Saint hype is blown completely out of proportion. Its not much hype at all in all honesty, their durability and endurance were no greater then that of Juras, even the guy who used take-over. Wolfheim and Hyberion have better offence then Jura, but in the formers case its clearly not by that much. All of their magic was sub-par by current standards, Hyberion is the only one who was actually semi-competent and Warrod is a pretty good support.
I think you're right, but even if they're not massively stronger than Jura, they're still at least as strong as Jura. And I think that Jura, Makarov or Jellal should be on the same league. And Jellal one-shotted a Spriggan...

Same way they were doing it. Serena even said that they could actually accomplish something when they tried, implying that they had not tried beforehand. I'd imagine that if a fight between Hyberion + Warrod Vs Base Serena rolled around, Warrod would provide support with his immensely fast trees as a way to ward Serena off while Hyberion gradually chipped away at Serenas magic with his own. Serena would probably land a few hits in but if the duo go all-out from the start I see them eventually taking the W.
But that's just too much speculation. Facts show the four of them were helpless against Base Serena, let alone Full Power Serena. Yes, they weren't "even trying", or so Serena says, but he was being overzealous. I think Base Serena is on par with the four of them, while Full Power Serena is massively stronger.
 

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I kind of agree with Escanors Pride on his points about Acnologia and Serena though. Acnologia moves at speeds in which August and Jacob can't even react to. Even if Serena miraculously survived the first hit, the second, third, or forth hit would have done him in.

I also don't have Jura and Jellal in the same league anymore. I think Jellal has surpassed Jura over the timeskip. I do, however, believe that Gildarts, Makarov, Jura, Bluenote, all occupy the same level in terms of general power.

Same way they were doing it. Serena even said that they could actually accomplish something when they tried, implying that they had not tried beforehand. I'd imagine that if a fight between Hyberion + Warrod Vs Base Serena rolled around, Warrod would provide support with his immensely fast trees as a way to ward Serena off while Hyberion gradually chipped away at Serenas magic with his own. Serena would probably land a few hits in but if the duo go all-out from the start I see them eventually taking the W.
The general gist of Serena's statement was that of bemusement though. In the crunchyroll translations, he says "Well, you're not totally pathetic after all". I didn't get the sense Serena was struggling until Hyperion got him with his vampire magic. I got the sense that Serena didn't take the WS seriously, and Hyperion got the drop on him. Serena probably wouldn't even have been in that position if he simply just kept spamming attacks instead of taking the time to rub it in. Even if Serena did underestimate the Saints, there's no guarantee that he ever would have needed to resort to dragon slaying magic if he simply took things more seriously.

Chapter 446 page 25.
Well, you're right there. Though this is really only effective if there's a source of sand in the area, which I suppose Ajeel can conjur with sand world.
 
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Char

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I also don't have Jura and Jellal in the same league anymore. I think Jellal has surpassed Jura over the timeskip. I do, however, believe that Gildarts, Makarov, Jura, Bluenote, all occupy the same level in terms of general power.
We really can't know, so it comes down to opinion. In mine, Jura is on the same league as Jellal. Maybe the latter is a bit stronger.
As for Glidartz being on the same league as Makarov, Jura or Bluenot, I have to disagree, really. They might have been, but I think it's been made clear that after the timeskip, Bluenot went from Jura tier to fodder (as he was beaten by Base Natsu). I believe Makarov and Jura to be on the same league, and a bit superior to base Natsu; as for Glidartz, I believe him to be superior to all of them.

But yes, again, it comes down to speculation. And even if Jellal was stronger than Jura, that wouldn't be by a huge gap. Jura should still handily beat Neinheart.
 

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Overall FT Rankings on just FT Guild

1)Laxus
2)Natsu (FDK mode)/Gildartz?
3)Makarov (Titan)
4)Erza
5)Gray
6)Gajeel
7)DF Wendy
8)Mirajane (SS/Sirri/Seilah)
9)Freed (Dark Eciture)
10)Juvia/Elfman

Gildartz is unknown
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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Some things to comment on:

i) Simply adding numbers don't change the outcome of a fight, the added numbers have to actually have something to bring to the table against their foes. The majority of the characters who are being listed are literal fodder for someone of Serenas caliber.

ii) Dimaria ain't surviving any longer then Serena did against Acnologia. The only Spriggan who don't get downright one-shotted off the gate are Bradman, August and Irene. Even with Bradman, once Acnologia realizes that physical attacks are useless against him he should make quick work of him. So Irene and August are the only Spriggan who can actually pose any sort of challenge.

iii) Too many excuses for Serena are being made. Even if speed was equalized Acnologia would still make quick work of him, the gap in raw power was simply oceanic.

iiii) The Ishval Saint hype is blown completely out of proportion. Its not much hype at all in all honesty, their durability and endurance were no greater then that of Juras, even the guy who used take-over. Wolfheim and Hyberion have better offence then Jura, but in the formers case its clearly not by that much. All of their magic was sub-par by current standards, Hyberion is the only one who was actually semi-competent and Warrod is a pretty good support.
I agree with Point #1.

I mostly agree with Point #2. I don't see Eileen or August posing as a challenge for Acnologia though. But that is just speculation on my part. We still don't exactly know Eileen's magic yet and I still believe she is quite ignorant in thinking that she can "deal" with Acnologia. Again, unless she has a magic similar to Future Rogue (doubt it) or something of that caliber, she is making a death wish. Now, together, August and Eileen might be able to give Acnologia minor injuries. Maybe a little more if August knows Dragon Slayer Magic which I also have doubts about.

I can agree with Point #3. But if speed was equalized, God Serena wouldn't have been blitzed that easily. In actuality, anybody with the speed of Acnologia should be quite deadly. I'd say God Serena can last a couple minutes before being killed. If that counts...

I sort of disagree with Point #4. I don't see the 3 Gods of Ishgar being on Jura's level in durability or endurance, especially Hyberion. It depends on whether you think the Gods of Ishgar and Jura took the same amount of damage from God Serena's attacks or not. I don't happen to think so purely based on the portrayal of the fight. We could see Jura but not the other Gods of Ishgar. Also, based on their ranks, I still think they are superior. As for the 3 Gods of Ishgar + Jura being sub-par by current standards, I don't quite agree with. They should be above average compared to most mages we've seen so far. I would put Jura close to Erza's level and Hyberion around Base Natsu or Laxus' level.
 
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Char

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Overall FT Rankings on just FT Guild

1)Laxus
2)Natsu (FDK mode)/Gildartz?
3)Makarov (Titan)
4)Erza
5)Gray
6)Gajeel
7)DF Wendy
8)Mirajane (SS/Sirri/Seilah)
9)Freed (Dark Eciture)
10)Juvia/Elfman

Gildartz is unknown
More like:

1) Natsu FDK mode
2) Glidartz?
3) Laxus
4) Makarov (titan)
5) Erza
6) Mirajane
7) Base Natsu
8) DeS Gray
9) DF Wendy
10) Gajeel
11) Base Gray
12) others...

Where 4 and 5 are probably interchangeable.
 
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