Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

  • Total voters
    93

Axiomus

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It's like SSJ of FT. They multiply their maximum by threefold which is how they can dominate enemies that were dominating them before. Natsu isn't very exact because his power keeps growing when in DF which is whe say "maybe even tripled". Also Jellal's Flame of Rebuke did not amplify Natsu's DF it only allowed Natsu to use the technique that's like saying Wendy's DF >>> Tartarus Natsu bcs Wendy ate Ethernano which isn't true.

The Dragon you were raise from has nothing to do with DF. Just bcs Natsu is DF turns him more like a Fire Dragon doesn't automatically put him above others DF. Natsu isn't transforming into Igneel so saying his DF is above Wendy or Gajeel's just bcs they're dragons are weaker means nothing. Sting's and Rogue's DF were already stated to be inferior DF by Natsu most likely bcs they didn't have scales or didn't have enough power to activate a true DF. But Wendy's has already been show to be a true DF so her amp is the same as Natsu amp in DF. The only reason Natsu DF is greater than Wendy is bcs Natsu's is way stronger than her without it.
Flame of rebuke didn't multiply Natsu's dragon force. Flame of rebuke boosted Natsu's magical power because it was literally all of Jellal's magical power. That's probably the reason he felt his magical power double or triple.

A dragon slayer's body literally transforms to take properties of a dragon when they use dragon force. This is the case with every version of dragon force we see. Natsu gains scales in the pattern of Igneel's, Wendy gains Grandeeney's feathers, Sting gets scales in the pattern of Weisslogia, and Rogue with Skiadrum. There's no reason to believe that Sting and Rogue's dragon force wasn't a "true" DF, and they do have scales. It stands to reason that the stronger the original dragon, the stronger you would be if you are literally transforming your body into one.
 
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Jko

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The concept of dragon slaying magic giving the wielder dragon properties is a concept that has been established very early on. A characters DF power correlating with how much they look like a dragon is, again, common sense. Its not simply a matter of design, its to show that Natsu is getting closer to becoming a dragon (ala Acnologia). Unless you want to tell me that Natsus DF turning him into a dragon (final stage of DF) wouldn't mean that his DF is stronger then a DF in which he only has a couple of scales, this topic should be done. If you do want to tell me that, this topic should be dropped anyway.
It can be dropped but as I said there isn't really much to compare between a mode that was design in Volume 19 to the current one made in 48. It just got a upgraded look nothing else.

Sure. And her base form is also around the same level as Natsu was at that time.

Inb4 Base Wendy >>>>>> OS Natsu because PLs drastically changed, despite the fact that Zancrow was still giving current Meredy a tough time.
Chelia >>>>> OS Natsu and Wendy stalemated her so yes Tartarus base Wendy is way above base OS Natsu.
Tartarus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS arc characters and I've already proven that. Base Wendy is a lot stronger than Natsu was in OS unless you think Max can overpower Wendy? Meredy us a non-factor Wendy would whoop Zancrow in one-shot like she did w/Enel. Zancrow giving current Meredy a tough time just show how much Meredy has been slacking.

His roar was trash either way, even as a warning shot.
So were the level of physical hits he did on Natsu that doesn't change the fact that Atlas could soloed FT at the time if he wanted.

Zirconis is simply a troll mandem. Atlas had nothing to worry about, he was constantly boasting about his defence. Nuking everything could just as easily do collateral damage, which F/Rogue certainly did not want. They were serious, albeit they may have been restricted to what they could use as to not cause any trouble for other dragons or important party (Rogue).
They could have easily gotten Rogue out of there and decimated the place. Everyone there combined couldn't even take out one of those seven Dragons if they combined an attack together so I don't get how these Dragons were above casual.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Flame of rebuke didn't multiply Natsu's dragon force. Flame of rebuke boosted Natsu's magical power because it was literally all of Jellal's magical power. That's probably the reason he felt his magical power double or triple.

A dragon slayer's body literally transforms to take properties of a dragon when they use dragon force. This is the case with every version of dragon force we see. Natsu gains scales in the pattern of Igneel's, Wendy gains Grandeeney's feathers, Sting gets scales in the pattern of Weisslogia, and Rogue with Weisslogia.
Flame of Rebuke only allowed to go DF just like Etherion, nowhere was it stated it boosted his MP bcs of Jellal's magic. Jellal even says that his Flame of Rebuke along with Etherion triggered Natsu DF in the GMG.

No, it turns them more into the element of the DS magic they learned not into carbon copies of their parent Dragon. Sting and Rogue's DF were nothing how there parent Dragon looked liked, their parents don't have tattoos. Natsu scales aren't anything special even Weisslogia has a similar scale pattern. Also Gajeel's DF looks nothing like Metalicana. Just bcs your parent Dragon is stronger doesn't make you're DF automatically stronger than the rest.
 

Axiomus

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It can be dropped but as I said there isn't really much to compare between a mode that was design in Volume 19 to the current one made in 48. It just got a upgraded look nothing else.

Flame of Rebuke only allowed to go DF just like Etherion, nowhere was it stated it boosted his MP bcs of Jellal's magic. Jellal even says that his Flame of Rebuke along with Etherion triggered Natsu DF in the GMG.

No, it turns them more into the element of the DS magic they learned not into carbon copies of their parent Dragon. Sting and Rogue's DF were nothing how there parent Dragon looked liked, their parents don't have tattoos. Natsu scales aren't anything special even Weisslogia has a similar scale pattern. Also Gajeel's DF looks nothing like Metalicana. Just bcs your parent Dragon is stronger doesn't make you're DF automatically stronger than the rest.
Flame of Rebuke was all of Jellal's magical power at that time. Jellal said so in his comment on the grand magic games. If Natsu consumed all of Jella's magical power, it stands to reason that Natsu's power would at least double if Jellal was stronger than Natsu. If Jellal was twice as powerful as Natsu, it would have tripled his magical power. If it was somewhere in between, then it makes sense why Natsu would place it somewhere between double or triple.

Sting and Rogue didn't gain tattoo's. They gained scale patterns. You might be mistaking Rogue's dragon force for shadow Rogue, which is not the same thing. Other than that, they look like scales to me. Also, Natsu's dragon force pattern isn't the same as Stings, and Igneel's scale pattern isn't the same as Weisslogia's. As for Gajeel, we don't have confirmation that the black iron is indeed dragon force.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Yes but in the earlier arcs I highly doubt Mashima was just thinking of super cool designs for that mode. Only after the GMG did he start to put more thought into DF so what I'm saying is that saying his Tartarus DF was better than his OS (in regards to amping Natsu's strength) for simply him looking more dragonified is wrong. It's been about 5+ years from the OS to Tartarus so a design upgrade would be expected.
There is more evidence that dragon force evolves than it simply being a design change. We know that turning into a dragon is the end of the path for dragon slaying magic. We also know that Dragon Force is the final form of dragon slaying magic. We also know that using dragon force will physically dragonize you. If dragon force is the final form of dragon slaying magic and turning into a dragon is the end of the path, then it stands to reason that they are one in the same. In other words, Acnologia's dragon force is what turns him into a dragon. This also implies that dragon force evolves as you become more powerful. Look at the evolution of Natsu's dragon force. When he used it during the tower of heaven. Before you try to explain it away as a design change, there is actually hints at a 3rd form of dragon force from the movie promotional. It was advertised in chapter 435 literally as a "dragon force"-level announcement. This form is clearly a lot more dragonized than both the 2 previous forms.
 
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This is a lame excuse, that proved that Max's defence was wayy better than Natsu's offense in base. Not to mention you're saying all it would have took was for Natsu to jump over and win? That's laughable, you'd think Max would just let Natsu pound him especially since he's shown the ability to easily evade Natsu's blow prior? Max using Sand Wall means he's pressured? No you're baseless saying a defence technique means you're being pressurized which it doesn't.
Max only dodged Natsu's blow prior because Natsu had severely underestimated him and didn't go all out. If he was capable of consistently dodging his attacks then why did he even need to put up Sand Wall in the first place?

Natsu before finishing Hades says he ran completely out of magic power and the magic power he received was from the Tenrou tree going back up. Natsu himself has activated the mode by himself prior and had some idea he could use it until he randomly activated out of nowhere against Max?
It's entirely possible that even though Natsu said he was out of magic power, there was still residual energy from Laxus left in him but it just wasn't enough for him to manifest into magic. Once the Tenrou Tree went back up that energy got replenished and Natsu was able to use it against Hades. However, given the fact that Natsu was literally frozen for seven years after that it's not unreasonable at all for him to think that whatever energy Laxus left him is long gone already. He had no way of knowing for sure he could go LFDM, and he had no way of knowing it would be really strong assuming he even could access it. Again, if Natsu had really known about LFDM prior to his fight against Max he wouldn't have told Lucy he "just now" figured out how to do it.

You also gotta consider the fact that this is Natsu we're talking about here. He's not the kind of guy to think back to past events and try assess their meanings and their implications and whatnot. He kinda just does whatever

Nothing in that fight implies Max could beat Natsu? Right at the start of the fight, it was basically said Max had bested Natsu once already this was the second round, that alone implies that. Max had the sheer upper hand against Natsu and had already bested him once and Natsu himself resorted to using his new mode. Natsu was serious saying he wasn't is baseless. As for the silly notion that Natsu wasn't trying to hurt him is hilarious, Natsu tries to fire off a full power LFD roar in his face and even after he complains it wasn't as strong as the one on Tenrou, if that was the same roar on Tenrou which Natsu tried to use Max would have been a goner.
Dodging a couple of attacks and landing kicks that barely did any damage does not qualify as having "the sheer upper hand". Using an offensive spell that the opponent broke through with ease does not qualify as having "the sheer upper hand". Blocking an attack with a spell that is solely meant for defense does not qualify as having "the sheer upper hand". Being forced to use that spell and not having any opportunities to attack afterwards does not qualify as having "the sheer upper hand".

I've already explained earlier in this post as to why LFDM was not something Natsu had to "resort to", so I'm not gonna address it again here.

And are you seriously trying to tell me that Natsu was trying to hit Max with his LFD roar but missed from like ten feet away? Have we ever seen Natsu miss an attack without the opponent dodging it ever? If he had wanted to hit Max it would have hit him. Simple as that.
 
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It can be dropped but as I said there isn't really much to compare between a mode that was design in Volume 19 to the current one made in 48. It just got a upgraded look nothing else.
And an evident upgrade in power to go with that look.

Chelia >>>>> OS Natsu and Wendy stalemated her so yes Tartarus base Wendy is way above base OS Natsu.
No she's not.

Tartarus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS arc characters and I've already proven that. Base Wendy is a lot stronger than Natsu was in OS unless you think Max can overpower Wendy?
Max vs Natsu was nothing but a scuffle to show that even the likes of Max can give Natsu a tough time after the 7 years, something which was unfathomable before. If it had actually came right down to it, Natsu would have won, he wasn't using any of his serious attacks. Yes, I believe Max could give base Tartarus Wendy a tough time as well (albeit not win). She was just as hopeless after the power inflation time skip (as I like to call it now) against Bluenotes magic as she was back on Tenrou and she couldn't even make base Ezel (one of the weaker demons) flinch.

Meredy us a non-factor Wendy would whoop Zancrow in one-shot like she did w/Enel. Zancrow giving current Meredy a tough time just show how much Meredy has been slacking.
This is a load of crap my friend, and you know it. Meredy has no reason to not train alongside Jellal and the crew, nor is there any reason why she wouldn't have gotten SO. Meredy and Juvia (base) were portrayed equal in that fight much like Keith and Zancrow were.

So were the level of physical hits he did on Natsu that doesn't change the fact that Atlas could soloed FT at the time if he wanted.
Sure he could, but his roar was still trash. His physical hits amounted to nothing but hitting Natsu against buildings. Naturally they wouldn't be very effective.

They could have easily gotten Rogue out of there and decimated the place. Everyone there combined couldn't even take out one of those seven Dragons if they combined an attack together so I don't get how these Dragons were above casual.
Yet they did not. Well everyone did not fight combined. And the big players (like Laxus) were even injured. Like I said, they were restricted and some dragons (namely Zirconis) are trolls. Naturally if a dragon had been able to go all-out they would have wrecked havoc (given that everyone there was weak and injured), but they couldn't, that doesn't mean they were't in search of blood.
 

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And an evident upgrade in power to go with that look.
What was the upgrade then? Bcs the only difference I saw was a design change.


No she's not.
Yes she is. OS Natsu would not be able to contend with Chelia even GMG Natsu, and GMG Erza noted how powerful she was

No way was OS Natsu was going to be able to stalemate Chelia especially when current Wendy( > Max > Base Tenrou Natsu >> Base OS Natsu) could barely survive against her.

Max vs Natsu was nothing but a scuffle to show that even the likes of Max can give Natsu a tough time after the 7 years, something which was unfathomable before. If it had actually came right down to it, Natsu would have won, he wasn't using any of his serious attacks. Yes, I believe Max could give base Tartarus Wendy a tough time as well (albeit not win). She was just as hopeless after the power inflation time skip (as I like to call it now) against Bluenotes magic as she was back on Tenrou and she couldn't even make base Ezel (one of the weaker demons) flinch.
They literally said Max was overpowering Natsu and Natsu was sweating from how much he was putting in against Max confirming that he was taking that fight seriously.
It was even said that Max was overpowering him and the only way for Natsu to overpower him was going LFD. Ezel was a lot stronger than Tenrou characters bar Hades and Bluenote. The guy could slash through anything putting Wendy at a major disadvantage and she still was able to survive his onslaught of attacks showcasing her durability/endurance.

This is a load of crap my friend, and you know it. Meredy has no reason to not train alongside Jellal and the crew, nor is there any reason why she wouldn't have gotten SO. Meredy and Juvia (base) were portrayed equal in that fight much like Keith and Zancrow were.
How is this a load of crap? When has Meredy done anything significant prior to her Zancrow fight? That fight only showed that Meredy has severely been lacking in her training for Tenrou lvl character to toss her around that badly. Nothing suggests Meredy has ever gotten second origin either so we can't just give her imaginary power-ups when she has done nothing to warrant anything of the sort.

Sure he could, but his roar was still trash. His physical hits amounted to nothing but hitting Natsu against buildings. Naturally they wouldn't be very effective.
That because he wasn't trying.... I'm trying to show you that the "roar" and physical attacks were weak bcs they weren't trying.

Yet they did not. Well everyone did not fight combined. And the big players (like Laxus) were even injured. Like I said, they were restricted and some dragons (namely Zirconis) are trolls. Naturally if a dragon had been able to go all-out they would have wrecked havoc (given that everyone there was weak and injured), but they couldn't, that doesn't mean they were't in search of blood.
None of the people there could survive an attack that did this even if they were full healthy.

If Atlas wasn't on there side they would have been rolfstomped by MG alone let alone all seven so the Dragons had to be casual the entire time so they wouldn't kill everyone.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Flame of Rebuke was all of Jellal's magical power at that time. Jellal said so in his comment on the grand magic games. If Natsu consumed all of Jella's magical power, it stands to reason that Natsu's power would at least double if Jellal was stronger than Natsu. If Jellal was twice as powerful as Natsu, it would have tripled his magical power. If it was somewhere in between, then it makes sense why Natsu would place it somewhere between double or triple.
As it was stated by Jellal his full power only allowed Natsu to release the technique as did Etherion, it was never stated to have made DF stronger. So again it was DF that allowed Natsu to get that strong not Jellal's FoR nor Etherion.
Sting and Rogue didn't gain tattoo's. They gained scale patterns. You might be mistaking Rogue's dragon force for shadow Rogue, which is not the same thing. Other than that, they look like scales to me. Also, Natsu's dragon force pattern isn't the same as Stings, and Igneel's scale pattern isn't the same as Weisslogia's. As for Gajeel, we don't have confirmation that the black iron is indeed dragon force.
Yes Weisslogia scales on his face match Igneel scales which both are rectangular shaped. Sting and Rogue's DF looked more like tattoos then they did scales unlike Natsu, Wendy, and Gajeel which further prove that their DF wasn't complete meaning it wasn't a genuine one. Gajeel was vastly implied to be his DF. They only turn into the element of their dragon not into their actual dragon parents.

There is more evidence that dragon force evolves than it simply being a design change. We know that turning into a dragon is the end of the path for dragon slaying magic. We also know that Dragon Force is the final form of dragon slaying magic. We also know that using dragon force will physically dragonize you. If dragon force is the final form of dragon slaying magic and turning into a dragon is the end of the path, then it stands to reason that they are one in the same. In other words, Acnologia's dragon force is what turns him into a dragon. This also implies that dragon force evolves as you become more powerful. Look at the evolution of Natsu's dragon force. When he used it during the tower of heaven. Before you try to explain it away as a design change, there is actually hints at a 3rd form of dragon force from the movie promotional. It was advertised in chapter 435 literally as a "dragon force"-level announcement. This form is clearly a lot more dragonized than both the 2 previous forms.
You have to bathe in dragon blood to turn more into a dragon which none of the DS have yet to do and Natsu transformation last seen was nowhere near that. Also that is what is known as Dragonification which is different from Dragon Force. His DF from OS to Tartarous really didn't even looked that different despite the scale being more noticeable and getting flame horns. Tbh if you think the more you like a dragon automatically make your DF stronger then Wendy is by far the strongest DF shown because she's the only one to obtain scale that are more noticeable then the other and wings not only that her entire hair changed colors. But we can't just go speculate and say her powers is being quadruple or is five times greater based off a look alone so we use what we know about DF which is that their power gets tripled. That movie poster mean nothing as the movie itself is non-canon.
 

Axiomus

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As it was stated by Jellal his full power only allowed Natsu to release the technique as did Etherion, it was never stated to have made DF stronger. So again it was DF that allowed Natsu to get that strong not Jellal's FoR nor Etherion.
I never said that Jellal's magical power makes dragon force stronger. I said Jellal's magical power was why Natsu felt his magical power increase. If Jellal had as much magical power as Natsu, then of course Natsu would feel his magic power double when he absorbs it. If Jellal was stronger than Natsu (up to twice as strong), then that would account for the vagueness. When Natsu ate Laxus' lightning, it was also described as being similar to when he ate Etherion like eating Jellal's flames were. Obviously lightning-fire mode isn't the same as Dragon Force and Natsu can't double his mp reserves with LFD. When Natsu was using Jellal and Laxus' power, LFD and DF were comparable in power. However, when Natsu uses them with his own power, DF was clearly the superior.

Yes Weisslogia scales on his face match Igneel scales which both are rectangular shaped. Sting and Rogue's DF looked more like tattoos then they did scales unlike Natsu, Wendy, and Gajeel which further prove that their DF wasn't complete meaning it wasn't a genuine one. Gajeel was vastly implied to be his DF. They only turn into the element of their dragon not into their actual dragon parents.
Igneel and Weisslogia have different scale patterns. Igneel's scales are more smooth, whereas Weisslogia's scales are much more jagged. Yes, they do have similarities in rectangular patterns on their faces, but the overall design is very different. Similiarly, Natsu's dragon force scales and Sting's have different designs, with Natsu's resembling much closer to Igneel than Weisslogia. If you want to say Sting's scale patterns looks like tattoos, that's your interpretation. I think they look like jagged scales. I don't get what you mean by "fake" dragon force either. Mavis and Jellal both recognized this power as dragon force, and so did Natsu. Why would Sting's dragon force be fake, while Natsu's isn't?

You have to bathe in dragon blood to turn more into a dragon which none of the DS have yet to do and Natsu transformation last seen was nowhere near that.
It was never explicitly stated that you needed to bathe in dragons blood to transform into a dragon. . In fact, that would make the efforts of the parent dragons redundant. Weisslogia did however say that bathing in dragon blood makes a dragon slayer stronger. I'm saying that Dragon Force evolves as you get stronger, so I see absolutely no problem saying that bathing in dragon's blood was what made Acnologia strong enough to fully dragonize.

Also that is what is known as Dragonification which is different from Dragon Force.
How is the dragonize process different from dragon force, when Dragon Slayers will physically dragonize when they use dragon force? Dragon Slaying magic is an enchantment that transforms the body and gives it aspects of a dragon's body. Dragon Force is the final form of dragon slaying magic. Turning into a dragon is described as the end of the path for dragon slaying magic. It just seems obvious that the "final form" of a magic whose primary mechanic is to turn your body into that of a dragon is to actually turn you into a dragon, especially when that's what they say happens at the end of the path for that magic. The fact that Dragon Force has you growing scales doesn't hurt this theory either.

His DF from OS to Tartarous really didn't even looked that different despite the scale being more noticeable and getting flame horns.
That's a huge understatement. Natsu's scales from before the timeskip barely covered parts of his face and arms. Now it's up and down his arms, legs, and body.

Tbh if you think the more you like a dragon automatically make your DF stronger then Wendy is by far the strongest DF shown because she's the only one to obtain scale that are more noticeable then the other and wings not only that her entire hair changed colors.
Like I said, the strength dragon force also depends on the dragon(s) you take after. It's possible to have the stronger dragon, and have a weaker dragon force due to a less complete transformation. The reverse is also true. You can have a less complete transformation, and be stronger because the dragon is stronger. It's a grey area that depends on how strong the dragon is, and how complete the transformation. It's also possible to have the exact same fighting prowess in Dragon Force, and still be a weaker mage overall simply because you can't maintain it as long. It's also possible to simply be stronger than someone else's dragon force in base mode.

I put Wendy's dragon force on the same level as Sting or Rogue's, and I don't see her transformation as being that much than Sting or Rogue's. She has feathers on her hands and feet, and some feathers out her back that might be the beginings of wings. Sting and Rogue have scale patterns all throughout their bodies. I see both these transformations as being more or less on the same level. Same with Natsu, only he takes after a stronger dragon. We don't know if Gajeel's black iron is dragon force, as Gajeel also has the ability to cover himself in iron scales without using dragonizing. If it is, then I believe it to be the strongest version of any DF we've seen so far. Justifiably so, as not only is it the most complete it has also taken down the strongest opponent.

But we can't just go speculate and say her powers is being quadruple or is five times greater based off a look alone so we use what we know about DF which is that their power gets tripled.
I don't believe Wendy's power quadrupled, or is 5x greater. I believe Wendy absorbed a large amount of magical power from the ethernano enriched air, and used that magical power to fuel her dragon force. It was enough power to put Wendy who was on Chelia's level, to being capable of beating Ezel who should be around Jackal's level. In fact, I don't believe dragon force lets a mage increase their magical reserves at all. It might let them increase their magical output by using stronger spells that use more power, but the amount of power they have in their tank should just be theirs.

That movie poster mean nothing as the movie itself is non-canon.
The story from the movie may be non-cannon, depending on whether or not it fits the timeline. That doesn't mean the powers and abilities shown during it are non-canon, unless it was a power specifically made for the movie. If Natsu uses dragon force in the movie and that's what it looks like, then it stands to reason that that's what dragon force will look like. As it happens to be, this power-up was teased as a "dragon force"-level announcement, so I'm assuming it's a design for dragon force.
 
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What was the upgrade then? Bcs the only difference I saw was a design change.
Upgrade in power. You know, the power to completely and utterly overwhelm someone of Mards caliber.

Yes she is. OS Natsu would not be able to contend with Chelia even GMG Natsu, and GMG Erza noted how powerful she was
Where? All I see is Natsu and Erza being surprised at her magic (God Slaying Magic) and Natsu also additionally being surprised that she can heal.

They literally said Max was overpowering Natsu and Natsu was sweating from how much he was putting in against Max confirming that he was taking that fight seriously.
Natsu had zero wear marks and one drop of sweat which could have just as easily been attributed to his amazement at Maxs power. Pretty obvious that Natsu just confidently charged at Max, threw a couple of failed punches and then got pushed back and/or tripped, far from a serious fight.

It was even said that Max was overpowering him and the only way for Natsu to overpower him was going LFD.
Where was it stated that the only way for Natsu to overpower Max was to go LFD? If he used even a fraction of his MP towards a regular fire roar Max would have been similarly screwed.

Ezel was a lot stronger than Tenrou characters bar Hades and Bluenote.
Base Ezel isn't.

The guy could slash through anything putting Wendy at a major disadvantage and she still was able to survive his onslaught of attacks showcasing her durability/endurance.
How does Ezel being able to slash through anything put Wendy at a major disadvantage? And since when could Ezel slash through anything?

How is this a load of crap? When has Meredy done anything significant prior to her Zancrow fight? That fight only showed that Meredy has severely been lacking in her training for Tenrou lvl character to toss her around that badly. Nothing suggests Meredy has ever gotten second origin either so we can't just give her imaginary power-ups when she has done nothing to warrant anything of the sort.
Why wouldn't Meredy have SO? She was chilling with Ultear for 7 years, are you seriously telling me its safer to assume that she does not have SO then she does? Meredy was portrayed as current Juvias (base) equal, current Juvia is stronger then Tartarus Wendy. Furthermore, current Juvia is also leagues ahead of Max. Do you seriously believe that Meredy, a member of the organization who's goal is to destroy Zeref, is weaker then Max? Frankly its a little absurd. If you want to argue that Meredy cooked lunch and dinner while the rest of the organization trained so be it. I simply disagree.

That because he wasn't trying.... I'm trying to show you that the "roar" and physical attacks were weak bcs they weren't trying.
Like I said, it could have been a warning shot, but its still trash. As for his physical attacks, he did not do a whole lot physically to his opponents. He just stood there and tanked attacks.

None of the people there could survive an attack that did this even if they were full healthy.
Like I said, roars like those would be a double edged sword.
 

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Yeah I answered your comments but they were deleted too.

Anyway:

- Brandish is not featless but she almost is indeed. I'm not taking into account her stabbing feat, that says nothing about her power really. All I'm taking into account is that she is an island buster AT LEAST, that she's a top healer and even maybe can regenerate tissue. The most interesting feat of hers is the fact she can pinpoint and shrink/enlarge any organ in your body. So if she manages to alter the size of any organ of her enemy, their body will stop to function properly. In the worst case scenario she can probably shrink a heart/brain to the point it's no longer there which means she can instakill.
How does stabbing someone not say anything about her power? August is the strongest Spriggan. That's undisputed at this point. If she can damage the strongest Spriggan that casually, it only portrays how strong she is. That means she's not really lagging that behind.
Her "island buster" is just a feat that shows her amount of magic power, but that doesn't really rank her anywhere since it remains unknown who she can use her abilities on (plus, it's also useless on cross-verse so lol).
Yeah, her regeneration is pretty good, but shrinking/enlarging organs is a nono at this point. She did it with Natsu, but (if I remember correctly it was off-paneled), but it was clear that she needed preparation for it and it seemed like she actually needed to focus on a specific point, though I may be wrong here.

- I'm not overrating BRadman really, it's not that I like him a lot either, but his powers are clearly OP. Not only does he posess the curses of the whole bunch of enemies of the previous arc, some of which are too hax (Macro), she also has got MBP so that automatically means CQC specialists are not going to be suitable to fight him. He is versatile, has a wide variety of curse types, and he's got two dangerous hax. Probably can also cast alegria or memento mori so... That should pretty much justify why he's in that position. Why not higher? Because against Gajeel he did not show the shrewdness to use his best tricks and he ended up losing when he could've won rather fast so that tells me he shouldn't be higher.
Curses are not really that impressive compared to the hax of other Spriggan. Macro falls under no-limit fallacy, thus it's only usable until the strongest character it was shown on (though I don't remember Bradman using it). His other curses were not that powerful since Base Gajeel was tanking them, which puts him below someone like Wahl in terms of attack potency by a good bit. Assuming he has Memento Mori and Alegria is kinda err, because those were specifically the curses Mard had created for Zeref and Cube, respectively, so it's a bit fallacious to assume that. Yeah, his MBP and his versatily are dangerous, but that's about it.
- Ajeel cannot counter his MBP.
Sand World should allow Ajeel to run away from the particles, plus Ajeel has shown to be able to fight long range (with Sands of Death). Moreover, Levy held on against the particles for a good while, and I'm assuming Ajeel has better endurance than Levy, so he still has a good chance. Anyways, Ajeel has better attack potency, is faster, more durable and is overall higher on the power scale. Not to mention that Bradman's intangibility isn't passive since Gajeel actually managed to hit him.
And Bradman outright states that his intangibility only works against physical attacks

- Wahl can probably counter his MBP, but he's not going to be able to harm him, whereas Bradman is going to be able to do so.
Wahl is probably a perfect counter for Bradman to be honest.
Wahl dispells Magical Barrier Particles and he's faster and stronger due to being around Laxus' general power level.

- Bradman was not on par with base Gajeel, he was vastly superior. Also, it's debatable whether Bradman went all out against DF Gajeel because I think he could've used one of his hax (macro, alegria, etc.) but he didn't. So either he was too overwhelmed by DF Gajeel that he couldn't think clearly and activate such curses, or he is just plainly dumb (which downplays his aptitudes).
Bradman wasn't vastly superior. Though Gajeel had assistance from Levy, he tanked all of Bradman's attacks and their attack potency was equal:
Yeah, Bradman's intangibilty was a pain in the ass for Gajeel, but they were on the same general power level. Bradman was never able to cause that much damage to Gajeel and DF Gajeel just stomped him. And as I'd already stated, Macro is a classic NLF, which probably wouldn't work on DF Gajeel, and it's an assumption that he even has Alegria. DF Gajeel was just that much stronger.

- Jacob may not be as impressive as Ajeel or Wahl but if he can send them into their dimension and they happen to be powerless there, then he's simply superior, because they're not gonna have time to escape the range of his transport (probably). And if they can he can probably use stealth to get close enough and use transport then.
Wahl is too fast for Transport and Ajeel has Sand World. A long range hit from any of them and Jacob is most probably out. This guy was getting damaged by Lucy.

- Laxus is one character which is so fast that I can see him speedblitzing Jacob and outclassing him (being faster than him clapping and oneshotting him), but that doesn't mean that he should be below Wahl, it just means Laxus is not a proper matchup for Jacob. But still, the fact Jacob is slower (although we haven't seen any significant speed feat from him) does not mean he cannot beat Ajeel, Wahl or Laxus since let's remember all he probably needs is to join his hands.
And Wahl is nearly as fast as Laxus. Just that simple. All they have to do is keep out of Jacob's range, which is only a bit bigger than the guild, and then land a clean hit on Jacob.

- Sand World is not a counter for transport.
It is since it allows Ajeel to keep out of Jacob's range.

- I'm not underestimating Invel but I think he's the most featless Spriggan of yet so I don't know where to class him. He seems the cqc type, an OP version of Gray if you ask me, and hax > cqc, generally. Invel instafroze Mavis but so what, so did Silver (to Natsu) and then I've read Invel froze Mavis' thoughts but I think it was that collar that he put on her which was restricting or thickening her thinking, but even if he could 'freeze' her thoughts that only means he can actually make your organs colder/freeze them which is normal considering he masters ice, but I still think shrinking a heart to the point it doesn't exist is > freezing it (since freezing it doesn't guarantee instadeath as we already saw).
Instafreezing Mavis, who happens to have a lot more magic power than Tartaros Natsu. The character you freeze also matters to measure your power level. And if that collar caused the mind control, then it's still his abilities anyways, since he was controlling the collar. Brandish can't actually shrink organs until she shows it in battle.

- Invel being Zeref's right hand man only means he may be the most rational one, or he prefers the office work, not that he's stronger or more reliable than any other spriggan. We already know he's badly outclassed by August, Irene and probably Larcade.
It still adds in to his portrayal. Yes, it might just be that, but the fact that he's on Zeref's side and that he commands the whole army already portrays him as a higher-ranked Spriggan. Though it's just an assumption, I think everything points to that direction.

- He made the weather change but so did Irene, Sandworld affected a whole city, Brandish shrunk a whole island, even Jellal was able to change the sky characteristics. That he made the weather colder/snowy does not hype him much IMHO.
He made the weather change in all of "Current Fiore". Not just in a city or in an island or in an area, but in a whole country.
Just happens that Jellal and Brandish's feats are two of the feats that had a higher energy output in the series, not that it matters in-verse though.

- If you mean Neinheart should be below Bradman because although he can summon him, Bradman cannot fight by his side because God Serena would be affected by his MBP, then I guess you've got a point. But that applies to all other spriggan. I mean it's not like even August is immune to MBP (I guess...) so... Also Neinhart may have the ability to be "immune" to his creations (who knows?) or he may create a battle strategy in which he's directly protected by the cqc types and the dangerous types fight from a distance. I mean the fact that he can summon 3 spriggans IMO makes him as strong as 3 spriggans at the same time which is even higher than August IMO. He can probably even summon August upon his death so that's why I put him first in the second list.
I just think that summoning 3 Spriggans is not that impressive when he has terrible durability. A hit from Ajeel or Dimaria would finish Neinheart, which is why I don't like him being ranked this high.

- Wahl is below Laxus since he was defeated by Laxus even when Wahl was literally Laxus' counter (not affected by lightning) and he was injured and trashed before the fight ever began so yeah.
Laxus was injured before the fight began? What? Anyways, yeah, I'm not denying Wahl is inferior to Laxus, what I'm saying is that they're on the same general level. Wahl was nearly as fast as Laxus, had the same CQC skills as him and they had around the same attack potency. Even though he was immune to lightning, he wasn't immune to physical hits and he made Laxus go all-out even though the latter was affected by his illness for a while.
 

Crimson Ice

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I agree with most of your post but Wahl isn't on Laxus' level at all. Put another mage on Laxus' level like Jellal or DF Gajeel against Wahl and the fight lasts less than one chapter.
 

Medkaradaraba

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My spriggan ranks

1)August
2)Irene
3)God Serena
4)Larcade
5)Invel
6)Wahl/Ajeel
7)Wahl/Ajeel
8)Dimaria
9)Bradman
10)Brandish
11)Jacob
12)Neinhart
 

Woodenstool

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How does stabbing someone not say anything about her power? August is the strongest Spriggan. That's undisputed at this point. If she can damage the strongest Spriggan that casually, it only portrays how strong she is. That means she's not really lagging that behind.
Her "island buster" is just a feat that shows her amount of magic power, but that doesn't really rank her anywhere since it remains unknown who she can use her abilities on (plus, it's also useless on cross-verse so lol).
Yeah, her regeneration is pretty good, but shrinking/enlarging organs is a nono at this point. She did it with Natsu, but (if I remember correctly it was off-paneled), but it was clear that she needed preparation for it and it seemed like she actually needed to focus on a specific point, though I may be wrong here.


Curses are not really that impressive compared to the hax of other Spriggan. Macro falls under no-limit fallacy, thus it's only usable until the strongest character it was shown on (though I don't remember Bradman using it). His other curses were not that powerful since Base Gajeel was tanking them, which puts him below someone like Wahl in terms of attack potency by a good bit. Assuming he has Memento Mori and Alegria is kinda err, because those were specifically the curses Mard had created for Zeref and Cube, respectively, so it's a bit fallacious to assume that. Yeah, his MBP and his versatily are dangerous, but that's about it.

Sand World should allow Ajeel to run away from the particles, plus Ajeel has shown to be able to fight long range (with Sands of Death). Moreover, Levy held on against the particles for a good while, and I'm assuming Ajeel has better endurance than Levy, so he still has a good chance. Anyways, Ajeel has better attack potency, is faster, more durable and is overall higher on the power scale. Not to mention that Bradman's intangibility isn't passive since Gajeel actually managed to hit him.
And Bradman outright states that his intangibility only works against physical attacks


Wahl is probably a perfect counter for Bradman to be honest.
Wahl dispells Magical Barrier Particles and he's faster and stronger due to being around Laxus' general power level.


Bradman wasn't vastly superior. Though Gajeel had assistance from Levy, he tanked all of Bradman's attacks and their attack potency was equal:
Yeah, Bradman's intangibilty was a pain in the ass for Gajeel, but they were on the same general power level. Bradman was never able to cause that much damage to Gajeel and DF Gajeel just stomped him. And as I'd already stated, Macro is a classic NLF, which probably wouldn't work on DF Gajeel, and it's an assumption that he even has Alegria. DF Gajeel was just that much stronger.


Wahl is too fast for Transport and Ajeel has Sand World. A long range hit from any of them and Jacob is most probably out. This guy was getting damaged by Lucy.


And Wahl is nearly as fast as Laxus. Just that simple. All they have to do is keep out of Jacob's range, which is only a bit bigger than the guild, and then land a clean hit on Jacob.


It is since it allows Ajeel to keep out of Jacob's range.


Instafreezing Mavis, who happens to have a lot more magic power than Tartaros Natsu. The character you freeze also matters to measure your power level. And if that collar caused the mind control, then it's still his abilities anyways, since he was controlling the collar. Brandish can't actually shrink organs until she shows it in battle.


It still adds in to his portrayal. Yes, it might just be that, but the fact that he's on Zeref's side and that he commands the whole army already portrays him as a higher-ranked Spriggan. Though it's just an assumption, I think everything points to that direction.


He made the weather change in all of "Current Fiore". Not just in a city or in an island or in an area, but in a whole country.
Just happens that Jellal and Brandish's feats are two of the feats that had a higher energy output in the series, not that it matters in-verse though.


I just think that summoning 3 Spriggans is not that impressive when he has terrible durability. A hit from Ajeel or Dimaria would finish Neinheart, which is why I don't like him being ranked this high.


Laxus was injured before the fight began? What? Anyways, yeah, I'm not denying Wahl is inferior to Laxus, what I'm saying is that they're on the same general level. Wahl was nearly as fast as Laxus, had the same CQC skills as him and they had around the same attack potency. Even though he was immune to lightning, he wasn't immune to physical hits and he made Laxus go all-out even though the latter was affected by his illness for a while.
How does stabbing someone not say anything about her power? August is the strongest Spriggan. That's undisputed at this point. If she can damage the strongest Spriggan that casually, it only portrays how strong she is. That means she's not really lagging that behind.
Her "island buster" is just a feat that shows her amount of magic power, but that doesn't really rank her anywhere since it remains unknown who she can use her abilities on (plus, it's also useless on cross-verse so lol).
Yeah, her regeneration is pretty good, but shrinking/enlarging organs is a nono at this point. She did it with Natsu, but (if I remember correctly it was off-paneled), but it was clear that she needed preparation for it and it seemed like she actually needed to focus on a specific point, though I may be wrong here.


Curses are not really that impressive compared to the hax of other Spriggan. Macro falls under no-limit fallacy, thus it's only usable until the strongest character it was shown on (though I don't remember Bradman using it). His other curses were not that powerful since Base Gajeel was tanking them, which puts him below someone like Wahl in terms of attack potency by a good bit. Assuming he has Memento Mori and Alegria is kinda err, because those were specifically the curses Mard had created for Zeref and Cube, respectively, so it's a bit fallacious to assume that. Yeah, his MBP and his versatily are dangerous, but that's about it.

Sand World should allow Ajeel to run away from the particles, plus Ajeel has shown to be able to fight long range (with Sands of Death). Moreover, Levy held on against the particles for a good while, and I'm assuming Ajeel has better endurance than Levy, so he still has a good chance. Anyways, Ajeel has better attack potency, is faster, more durable and is overall higher on the power scale. Not to mention that Bradman's intangibility isn't passive since Gajeel actually managed to hit him.
And Bradman outright states that his intangibility only works against physical attacks


Wahl is probably a perfect counter for Bradman to be honest.
Wahl dispells Magical Barrier Particles and he's faster and stronger due to being around Laxus' general power level.


Bradman wasn't vastly superior. Though Gajeel had assistance from Levy, he tanked all of Bradman's attacks and their attack potency was equal:
Yeah, Bradman's intangibilty was a pain in the ass for Gajeel, but they were on the same general power level. Bradman was never able to cause that much damage to Gajeel and DF Gajeel just stomped him. And as I'd already stated, Macro is a classic NLF, which probably wouldn't work on DF Gajeel, and it's an assumption that he even has Alegria. DF Gajeel was just that much stronger.


Wahl is too fast for Transport and Ajeel has Sand World. A long range hit from any of them and Jacob is most probably out. This guy was getting damaged by Lucy.


And Wahl is nearly as fast as Laxus. Just that simple. All they have to do is keep out of Jacob's range, which is only a bit bigger than the guild, and then land a clean hit on Jacob.


It is since it allows Ajeel to keep out of Jacob's range.


Instafreezing Mavis, who happens to have a lot more magic power than Tartaros Natsu. The character you freeze also matters to measure your power level. And if that collar caused the mind control, then it's still his abilities anyways, since he was controlling the collar. Brandish can't actually shrink organs until she shows it in battle.


It still adds in to his portrayal. Yes, it might just be that, but the fact that he's on Zeref's side and that he commands the whole army already portrays him as a higher-ranked Spriggan. Though it's just an assumption, I think everything points to that direction.


He made the weather change in all of "Current Fiore". Not just in a city or in an island or in an area, but in a whole country.
Just happens that Jellal and Brandish's feats are two of the feats that had a higher energy output in the series, not that it matters in-verse though.


I just think that summoning 3 Spriggans is not that impressive when he has terrible durability. A hit from Ajeel or Dimaria would finish Neinheart, which is why I don't like him being ranked this high.


Laxus was injured before the fight began? What? Anyways, yeah, I'm not denying Wahl is inferior to Laxus, what I'm saying is that they're on the same general level. Wahl was nearly as fast as Laxus, had the same CQC skills as him and they had around the same attack potency. Even though he was immune to lightning, he wasn't immune to physical hits and he made Laxus go all-out even though the latter was affected by his illness for a while.
Laxus was nerfed to a certain point to make the fight more interesting and was paired with someone who was immune to his magic.

If Laxus could've one shot a Mage who was stated to be equal to the rest of the 12 than he's stronger.

Ajeel is the sand, in sand world, he can be anywhere within the radius of the spell. Also, that spell dries up its enemy. Not even God Serna can counter sandstorm, I highly doubt any of DS spells is above city level considering the fact that the sand literally travels to clouds.

So please quit saying "oh August is the strongest" It's been stated multiple times that they're equal. Natsu even said himself that Brandish magic power is a bit less than August.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
The fodders standing in front of him should be enemies, even if Natsu wasn't trying to kill them. If Natsu had really used FDK mode during the GMG, then the fodders standing in front of him should have been defeated by the sheer body heat alone.
The lake is also far larger than the GMG stadium, which makes Natsu's feat against Jacob more impressive AoE wise. Honestly, the only thing similar about the two feats was that the clothes were melting, and clothes should melt rather easily. It's not a good indicator that Natsu was using FDK mode.
Explain this than bud, Natsu used Demolition fist on the God of War but did not need to enter BDKM. He also said "taste the flames of Igneel" and uses his right arm where the bandages are.

After Igneels powers are gone, he needs to enters BDKM to use that attack which logically means Natsu used Igneels powers against Zerefs troops/black carpet when he used that roar.

Every time he stated that he will become stronger so that doesn't lose anyone else anymore was against the God of War and Zerefs army.
 

Crimson Ice

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Natsu said August's magic was only a bit above Brandish's and was immediately called a fool by Mest for it. Everyone except for Natsu and Lucy has said August was on a different level and when Natsu said it he was called a fool for doing so. August has been called the strongest individual on top of his position as the commander of the 12, portrayal clearly favours August as the strongest mage even if it's not by much.
 

Brandish μ

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I think August and Irene are about the same. I'll wait until I see both their full capabilities before judging; for now there's only character statements. August has the title of commander of the 12, so there's that. But it's not like it means much. Invel is Zeref's assistant, I don't think that allows him to be automatically better than say DiMaria.

Imo Larcade is on August's level.
 

Axiomus

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Explain this than bud, Natsu used Demolition fist on the God of War but did not need to enter BDKM. He also said "taste the flames of Igneel" and uses his right arm where the bandages are.

After Igneels powers are gone, he needs to enters BDKM to use that attack which logically means Natsu used Igneels powers against Zerefs troops/black carpet when he used that roar.

Every time he stated that he will become stronger so that doesn't lose anyone else anymore was against the God of War and Zerefs army.
Natsu gives speeches when he fights. What's to explain? The raws say flames of the fire dragon king, 炎竜王の炎. Besides, Igneel's flames is just the type of fire Igneel can create. That's what fire dragon king spells are. They create fire that is similar to what the fire dragon king could create. Igneel's magical power is the raw magical power Igneel left behind for Natsu. Natsu can use Igneel's magical power without using FDK spells and vice versa.

Natsu didn't need to enter FDK mode to use demolition fist. FDK mode allows Natsu to effect his surrounding, like burning up the lake and causing Jacob pain before he even landed the actual attack. Natsu entering FDK mode and then launching an attack should use up more magical power than simply launching an attack in bose mode. The reason Natsu entered FDK mode for Jacob and not Ikusatsunagi was probably because Jacob was a stronger opponent. Also, Natsu entered FDK mode to use an FDK punch against Zeref when he was using Igneel's power, so I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Natsu can use Igneel's power without using FDK mode or FDK spells. Natsu can use FDK mode and FDK spells without using Igneel's power. Happy noted the act of Natsu taking off his bandage as Natsu beginning to use Igneel's power, and was surprised he would use it so soon. Zeref sensed Igneel's magical power the moment the bandages came off.
 
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Solitrine

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I actually don't think Larcade is much stronger than normal Spriggan level. He wasn't really hyped as anything above the other Spriggan like both August and Irene were, and Mavis seemed to be surprised at the nature of his MP, not really how much he had/it's quality. It could be that Larcade is roughly Spriggan level but his magic is super effective against Acnologia for whatever reason.
 
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Woodenstool

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Natsu gives speeches when he fights. What's to explain? The raws say flames of the fire dragon king, 炎竜王の炎. Besides, Igneel's flames is just the type of fire Igneel can create. That's what fire dragon king spells are. They create fire that is similar to what the fire dragon king could create. Igneel's magical power is the raw magical power Igneel left behind for Natsu. Natsu can use Igneel's magical power without using FDK spells and vice versa.

Natsu didn't need to enter FDK mode to use demolition fist. FDK mode allows Natsu to effect his surrounding, like burning up the lake and causing Jacob pain before he even landed the actual attack. Natsu entering FDK mode and then launching an attack should use up more magical power than simply launching an attack in bose mode. The reason Natsu entered FDK mode for Jacob and not Ikusatsunagi was probably because Jacob was a stronger opponent. Also, Natsu entered FDK mode to use an FDK punch against Zeref when he was using Igneel's power, so I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Natsu can use Igneel's power without using FDK mode or FDK spells. Natsu can use FDK mode and FDK spells without using Igneel's power. Happy noted the act of Natsu taking off his bandage as Natsu beginning to use Igneel's power, and was surprised he would use it so soon. Zeref sensed Igneel's magical power the moment the bandages came off.
Fire means the same thing as flames. So showing that panel backs up my statement. Natsu did not use Demolition fist fighting Zeref, it was never stated.

"Natsu uses FDKM to engulf the area with flames"

That makes so sense whatsoever, throughout the entire series when he enters a mode, he uses it specially on an enemy. Natsu wouldn't purposely evaporate the lake water.

What's the difference between "this is the fire of the fire dragon King" and "taste the flames of Igneel"?

Igneel is the fire dragon King
Flames/fire same meaning

"Natsu said he can use 'this' once"
He meant the power of Igneel which can't be regenerated. It doesn't mean Natsu can't tap into this power when needed to.


Come back with a better argument.
Edit- Jacob stronger than the GOW? Show me evidence, the GOW has better feats compared to Jacob. But you might say "well Jacob wasn't blown to bits like the GOW" yeah because Igneels power is superior to Natsus flames.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I actually don't think Larcade is much stronger than normal Spriggan level. He wasn't really hyped as anything above the other Spriggan like both August and Irene were, and Mavis seemed to be surprised at the nature of his MP, not really how much he had/it's quality. It could be that Larcade is roughly Spriggan level but his magic is super effective against Acnologia for whatever reason.
Probably because Hiro didn't write out his character abilities?

If he has the ability to take down a dragon, that speaks volumes because not even Zeref stands a chance but we have yet to see him go all out.
 

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Natsu said August's magic was only a bit above Brandish's and was immediately called a fool by Mest for it. Everyone except for Natsu and Lucy has said August was on a different level and when Natsu said it he was called a fool for doing so. August has been called the strongest individual on top of his position as the commander of the 12, portrayal clearly favours August as the strongest mage even if it's not by much.
To be precise,August was said to be strongest by Makarov who didn't meet or hear about all of the Spriggan.
If we go by Brandish's statements they're both around the same level.
Even when they encontered at the beach, she didn't seem to be intimidated by him.
 

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How does stabbing someone not say anything about her power? August is the strongest Spriggan. That's undisputed at this point. If she can damage the strongest Spriggan that casually, it only portrays how strong she is.
Because I think the fact Brandish could pierce through August's skin was more of a plot device rather than the fact that he's not durable enough to withstand her attacks. It was passive durability, he didn't expect it, it came by surprise, and it was necessary to fulfill Mest's plan. I think anyone could've been able to do that, not only Brandish, but he would only be off guard with one of his kind.

Also, I think sharp bladed weapon work differently in this manga than logic says. For example, an average human couldn't cut Goku with a sword, but give Vegeta that same sword and that'd be another story. In this manga I think anyone can pretty much pierce a body with a sword. But that's just my vision. You may not share it. Dragons are another story, granted they're in their dragon form though, I mean human skin.

Her "island buster" is just a feat that shows her amount of magic power, but that doesn't really rank her anywhere since it remains unknown who she can use her abilities on (plus, it's also useless on cross-verse so lol).
Neinhart can summon 3 beings stronger than himself, and Brandish can cure August who's stronger than herself. I don't see why 'it remains unknown who se can use her abilities on'. I think it's rather clear she can use them on anyone she wants.

Yeah, her regeneration is pretty good, but shrinking/enlarging organs is a nono at this point. She did it with Natsu, but (if I remember correctly it was off-paneled), but it was clear that she needed preparation for it and it seemed like she actually needed to focus on a specific point, though I may be wrong here.
Well it's the same as always. Maybe pinpointing and shrinking an organ requires precission and preparation, but she can shrink a visible part of the body for that matter. She has been seen to be capable of enlarging a whole entity (island, happy) or shrinking something small yet visible (a wound). She can actually casually enlarge a head (although it didn't have effects though), maybe her shrinking of a part of the body does not directly kill the user and it needs to be an organ, but she can shrink a person and step on them.

Curses are not really that impressive compared to the hax of other Spriggan. Macro falls under no-limit fallacy, thus it's only usable until the strongest character it was shown on (though I don't remember Bradman using it). His other curses were not that powerful since Base Gajeel was tanking them, which puts him below someone like Wahl in terms of attack potency by a good bit. Assuming he has Memento Mori and Alegria is kinda err, because those were specifically the curses Mard had created for Zeref and Cube, respectively, so it's a bit fallacious to assume that. Yeah, his MBP and his versatily are dangerous, but that's about it.
Maybe curses per se are not comparable to Spriggan-level spells, but a character who can use all of the spells, including the hax ones like Macro, Alegria, Memento Mori or MBP, that's another story. Macro falls under no-limit fallacy as do Alegria and Memento Mori, and as seemed to do Neinhart who, not abiding by the NLF, he was assumed not to be capable of summoning beings stronger than himself and guess what, he summoned 3 stronger than himself, and he could probably even summon dragons if he wanted. So, NLF... It entirely depends on the author and if the author wants Macro to be omnipotent, then it is. We can only guess and position ourselves.

Also Base Gajeel was being fodderized. He may be a counter for MBP but still he could not harm him in any way whereas the spriggan could. And yes, ofc, Brad should be below Wahl in terms of attack potency (I guess?) but he's a more rounded up spriggan as a whole. Wahl could not hurt Bradman but Bradman could likely hurt Wahl.

Is it fallacious to assume he can use memento mori or alegria? Because he was stated to have the 9DG curses INCLUDING Mard Geer. Also Mirajane's takeover took Plutogrim so if she can use Alegria (which she probably can) I don't see why brad can't. But OK if he can't use Alegria he could still use Macro or Memento Mori.

Sand World should allow Ajeel to run away from the particles,
It only takes for a human being to be close enough Bradman for a second to be automatically poisoned, so that is if they begin to fight from a certain distance and he knows he can't get close.

plus Ajeel has shown to be able to fight long range (with Sands of Death).
Ajeel's attacks are not going to affect him as his body is made of MBP. Also, he can't dehydrate him because his body is likely not made of water.

Moreover, Levy held on against the particles for a good while,
Plot bs. Other human mages were shown to die upon breathing his MBP which makes me thing they're stronger than Tempesta's (who Laxus and the God Thunder Tribe could cure from). The only reason Levy didn't die is because Mashima is not going to kill anyone in FT and if he does it'll be by the end.

and I'm assuming Ajeel has better endurance than Levy,
I honestly don't think it's about endurance tbh. It's similar to Mira not dying instantly from having her heart pierced. Does that mean Ajeel wouldn't die either because his endurance is better? No, it was just plot bs.

Wahl is probably a perfect counter for Bradman to be honest. Wahl dispells Magical Barrier Particles and he's faster and stronger due to being around Laxus' general power level.
Don't see how. Wahl dispels MBP but Wahl cannot be hurt by physical attacks, at which Wahl excels (and what Wahl is only capable of using...). Also Wahl is fairly inferior to Laxus. Laxus was at a 100% disadvantage against him and still managed to beat him. This would be like Natsu beating Juvia and saying 'Juvia is around Natsu's general power level' when the only reason why Juvia could put up a decent fight (if she would) would be because her element counters Natsu's.

Bradman wasn't vastly superior. Though Gajeel had assistance from Levy, he tanked all of Bradman's attacks and their attack potency was equal:
Yeah, Bradman's intangibilty was a pain in the ass for Gajeel, but they were on the same general power level. Bradman was never able to cause that much damage to Gajeel and DF Gajeel just stomped him. And as I'd already stated, Macro is a classic NLF, which probably wouldn't work on DF Gajeel, and it's an assumption that he even has Alegria. DF Gajeel was just that much stronger.
Bradman was unscratched while Gajeel was considerably injured. Even Levy had to step in so that Gajeel didn't get killed. Gajeel was simply and plainly overwhelmed by the spriggan. They were not on the same general power level by any means. DF Gajeel was superior to Bradman, I'll give you that.

Wahl is too fast for Transport and Ajeel has Sand World. A long range hit from any of them and Jacob is most probably out. This guy was getting damaged by Lucy.
Is Wahl too fast for transport? How did you measure that? Sure Wahl is fast, but is he going to escape the range? Does he have information on Transport? Does he have prep? Is he inside a building? Does Jacob's range extend further than we saw? It's all assuming! in the event Wahl gets trapped in his dimension, he wins. If Wahl happens to be too fast, Jacob can always go invisible and get close to him without Wahl noticing then cast Transport. Also Jacob tanked a base Natsu's fire punch like it was nothing so I can't see him out of comission on only a Wahl's long range hit, let's not downplay his probably high durability (he didn't die after Natsu's final blow and he's seemingly scratchless now).

It is since it allows Ajeel to keep out of Jacob's range.
Being a counter means a user is unaffected by a certain magic, or the user has a magic that can cancel out that magic. How can Ajeel's sand counter Transport, really?

Instafreezing Mavis, who happens to have a lot more magic power than Tartaros Natsu.
Well she should have infinite magic for that matter and no-one should've been able to instafreeze her, right? I don't think it works like that. Fairy Heart was simply not yet activated which means Mavis does not have more magic power than a Spriggan. But again, you assume she does, I assume she doesn't.

The character you freeze also matters to measure your power level. And if that collar caused the mind control, then it's still his abilities anyways, since he was controlling the collar. Brandish can't actually shrink organs until she shows it in battle.
That'd be impressive if you assumed Mavis has more MP than anyone in this manga (infinite), but that was not yet unleashed. Also, Brandish has been shown capable of shrinking organs. Can she in battle? Well again, assumptions. We're still featless but I don't see why she couldn't do that.

It still adds in to his portrayal. Yes, it might just be that, but the fact that he's on Zeref's side and that he commands the whole army already portrays him as a higher-ranked Spriggan. Though it's just an assumption, I think everything points to that direction.
IMHO, the fact that August, Irene or Larcade were mentioned by characters like Makarov, Brandish, Mirajane, Zeref or Mavis and were put immediately above others make them stronger, but there's no reason for me to think Invel is above the others. We'll see, but as far as abilities go, if his strongest 'hax' is instafreezing, I still think Dimaria's hax is faster, and more effective.

He made the weather change in all of "Current Fiore". Not just in a city or in an island or in an area, but in a whole country.
I don't think current Fiore is bigger than a city even when calcs kind of prove so. It's likely Mashima didn't go into such calculations. I'm convinced the size of Fiore is goign to be around the size of Barcelona. I'm judging by the city panel in the previous chapter. If you don't think it's large city size, then it could be island size. And still, island size is nothing average spriggan-level cannot carry out.

I just think that summoning 3 Spriggans is not that impressive when he has terrible durability. A hit from Ajeel or Dimaria would finish Neinheart, which is why I don't like him being ranked this high.
I guess you've got a point, but if he summons 3 spriggans whose main priority is going to be protecting him, then... I don't think the enemy's gonna get the chance to hit him so easily.

Laxus was injured before the fight began? What? Anyways, yeah, I'm not denying Wahl is inferior to Laxus, what I'm saying is that they're on the same general level. Wahl was nearly as fast as Laxus, had the same CQC skills as him and they had around the same attack potency. Even though he was immune to lightning, he wasn't immune to physical hits and he made Laxus go all-out even though the latter was affected by his illness for a while.
Yes he was, his insides were destroyed, he was on the verge of dying, Wahl was impressed that he could move, it was all due to the poison from the MBP, so Laxus fought Ajeel with a double disadvantage: he was destroyed already, and his magic did not affect Wahl. Which makes Laxus vastly superior to Wahl in any possible way.

His endurance was enough to withstand magicless punches from Laxus but I don't see how that should be impressive, since magic amplifies cqc by a wide multiplier, which probably means even mid tier characters could punch stronger when magic-imbued.
 
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I actually don't think Larcade is much stronger than normal Spriggan level. He wasn't really hyped as anything above the other Spriggan like both August and Irene were, and Mavis seemed to be surprised at the nature of his MP, not really how much he had/it's quality. It could be that Larcade is roughly Spriggan level but his magic is super effective against Acnologia for whatever reason.
I agree with that, especially about the Acnologia bit. Even if he's August level he will have to be super-effective against Acnologia to be considered a secret weapon.

Still, even a qualitative comment from Mavis is worth noting, as none of the other 9 Spriggans have such hype (within the 12). From how Mavis reacted, she was just as impressed (or perhaps more) by Larcade as she was August. If his magic type or nature is something special then it might make-up for his MP shortcomings relative to Irene or August. We'll find out eventually anyway.
 
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