No this is Juvia that we are talking about, not Brandish.
No, we're talking about Urano Metria and its limitations.
Huh? No it wasn't. It was compressed by Brandish and then magnified back to its original size/power at her. I see no indication that it got stronger.
Command T magnification... Since Brandish can shrink and enlarge things at will, and after using magnification, I assume she made it bigger. I also see it bigger, but maybe due to the perspective (Lucy is farther than Brandish when they receive it).
I don't recall anything significant that proves Lucy is more durable than Juvia but this is me not recalling, I'm probably wrong here.
Dude, he WAS holding back. Unless you think that Juvia is Invel level in physical stats it might as well be a fact. His hair being super saiyan like showes that he is releasing considerable energy and it wasn't like that against Juvia. There is literally nothing else to add.
After re-reading that chapter, I only see a Gray and a Juvia who can't control their bodies. I don't see any indication that they are holding back...
Also the Gray that is fighting Juvia is not the same Gray that is fighting Invel. It's not that Juvia's got spriggan-level physical stats, the thing is that the Gray that is fighting Juvia is the same Gray that Invel was outright fodderizing. Gray is generally not spriggan-level, until PoF and PiS make him be.
Of course it is. No matter how much one would want to extrapolate Juvias physical stats they simply aren't Spriggan level or anywhere near it no matter how you put it.
Never implied that, but neither are Gray's. At least not the "usual" Gray.
POF doesn't increase someones power (emotion cannot physically increase power), its just them using their power to its fullest.
No, this is Fairy Tail, PoF
does increase stats as much as the author wants it. This has been proven over and over and over throughout the manga.
Plot is a terrible excuse and makes debating useless, it really does.
Maybe, but it's the truth. And you know it. There is a lot of bad writing and inconsistency in this manga, especially in this arc. Some things can just simply not be accounted for using common sense or potrayal.
I could just as easily say that Juvia being able to scratch Gray was plot.
Why? They were training for one year together their gap ought not to be huge. Base Gray shouldn't be more than one tier above Juvia, the thing is Base Gray has the DeS powerup and now he's got a supreme powerup which is the superangry powerup by which he can fodderize a spriggan... and I don't even know if he was using DeS or he was just super angry because the tatoos weren't there when he defeated Invel.
Everything is plot. Natsu one/two shotted Neinhart, someone who was thought to have trash durability from the start and it seems that being enchanted only increased his MP and magic attacks (the wind attack was powerful). His physical stats seem to have remained the same for the most part.
It
seems. That is the key word. It seems that only MP was enhanced in Neinheart. It could very well be that. Or it could also be that Mashima decided that base Natsu became stronger than he was a few hours back, just because; and he could oneshot a spriggan whose durability is trash but it was enhanced to be "decent". Any of the two interpretations is acceptable.
Your logic doesn't work. Keith is like that against anyone and everyone (its part of his power). Juvia can't do what she did to Keith against anyone else nor can anyone else do what she did to Keith. Keith is only immune to physical damage, any other type of attack could injure him. There are many characters that use physicals but very few that can ONLY use physicals (ie no magic or only magic that enhances physical strength).
I thought Keye's and Bradman's intangibility was total, that is, he can't be hurt by any attack no matter if it's physical or not. If that's incorrect then I was wrong, but I think it wasn't since I recall Juvia using water slicer repeatedly against him, and it going through his body.
Sure she could. A water technique with enough pressure to eradicate his particles is fair game. I mean obviously if she cannot deal with his intangibility then she cannot beat him but she does so she can.
Right, I don't know if Aqua Metria could take Keyes out but it may.
Of course Brandish is. But Juvia isn't. In regards to physicals I highly doubt it, I don't see any reason why she would, she wasn't portrayed as a physical monster ever so her being able to destroy Lucy (someone who seems to focus on CQC Post-TS, probably the reason she thought she could spar with Natsu) physically wouldn't really make much sense to me. Simply being more better off (for lack of a better word) then Lucy physically seems sensible. Her magic of course trumps Lucy's, and thats where I think she was holding back.
Juvia should now be pretty solidly on par with Lucy in terms of phisicality. Also spriggans were just introduced as monsters, in terms of MP, in terms of abilities and why not, in terms of phisicality. I don't recall any spriggan who couldn't do proficient cqc, except for Bradman maybe.
As for Keith, she CAN counter him, you underestimate the number of characters who can (its not even like Bradman who is still very durable w/o intangibility, Keith has little durability as far as I am concerned so most energy/elemental/unconventional attacks would do wonders). And even if Lucy specifically couldn't, that wouldn't change her being several tiers ahead of him overall.
As aforementioned, if Key was only immune to physical attacks then right, but he can't be affected by magical attacks either.
I don't deny her improvement. I think she could Easy-Mid diff Keith whereas Pre-TS she was vastly inferior to him. I peg Lucy in the same tier as the likes of Bluenote, at best Juvia is sitting right under that with the likes of Tartarus Erza/Kyouka.
You know, when I think of Bluenote I think of such a beast who could even go toe to toe with Glidartz, then I think that he was one-shot by Natsu and I seriously don't know how to compare him to other characters. So at first when I read "Lucy in the same tier as the likes of Bluenote" I was like: "OMG no way" but then I thought about it and it kind of makes sense.
Juvia being Tartaros Erza level seems legit to me, but I'd class Lucy around there too.
Just stop. This post is so biased, I can't even fathom how anyone can come with this reasoning. Gray can beat any spriggan level character of Invel's ilk provided he's blood lusted or super enraged under normal circumstances. It's hypocritical and double standard use to suggest what Gray did against Invel was plot but somehow Natsu oneshotting spriggans casually isn't. That's just blatant display of bias. Simply put, you can simply admit that everything that happens in this manga is plot related. Gildartz oneshotting Serena Historia is plot related. Gildartz making Natsu tremble in Tenrou island is plot related. There's no "poor excuse", that's just a ridiculous low-balling retort from your end. Especially considering you have zero knowledge how much Gray has trained during the one year time, and you have zero knowledge of his own power. Scary part is BASE Gray Bloodlusted knocked down a spriggan.
How about instead of making very poor excuses of "plot, PoF", just admit Gray simply that strong now and hold all characters to the same criteria. Considering every character in this manga has fought battles mostly with POF and plot to begin with.
Simply put Gray is a spriggan level character, and is above the likes of Erza.
You need to understand Invel is as strong as most of the 9 non top tier spriggans. As you saw, Gray couldn't beat him until after Juvia's apparent death, where his feelings went overboard. As you very well know, feelings in this manga are power. It's not only implied it's actually been stated.
The Gray that defeated Invel is nowhere near the Gray pre-Ice Lock.
IMO that was not normal bloodlusting, but ok I respect your opinion. If you think Gray could've defeated Invel if the reason of his bloodlust had been different, then even base Gray classes way way higher than Erza. Erza couldn't defeat Ajeel on her own, and I think of Ajeel as an Invel in terms of phisicality, their magic being similar but of different element. I always considered Erza above Gray ever since we arrived at this arc, where I understand that Gray may've surpassed her. But after seeing Gray fight Invel and get wrecked I understood that Base Gray was not Erza level just yet. I thought: "In DeS mode, he must definetely be on par or superior to Erza". But nope, turns out he didn't use DeS to defeat Invel but bloodlust. Which makes me think: hey Erza hasn't been bloodlusted in this arc yet so heck, she may even be Irene level. No, that is bullshit. Spriggans were supposed to be too powerful for the main cast to solo them. The thing was, they were so strong that people were actually thinking of what teams would beat individual spriggans. But nope, now bloodlusted Gray can take Invel, base Natsu can casually one-shot an enhanced spriggan just because, and it is very likely that bloodlusted Erza will defeat Irene... just no.
And it hurts me to see you suggest that I wouldn't consider Natsu oneshotting a spriggan plot. Of COURSE it is plot, I've been defending that from the moment it happened. It's clear PiS.
Now anything after that is twisting my words. I think we have enough common sense to class what is PiS and what is not. Glidartz was always the strongest mage in FT, apply to him the same growth ratio that Ntasu or Gray have undergone, it's clear that Glidartz is still gonna be number 1. That is not plot (unless you consider power growth in this year of training plot in itself).
You realise Gray did have some control right? Meaning he could hold back.
I don't see what makes you think that.
