Question Hisoka's resurrection discussion

[Hannibal Psyche]

So it is not evidence from the manga when hisoka literally says 'my nen has properties of rubber and gum'?
You then say 'whatever, it is still just gum'?
That makes no sense.

"Properties" is not the same thing as being the said thing.

Property refers to an aspect of something.

Cake has properties of Sponge, doesn't mean Cake is literally sponge.

Gum has properties of Rubber being that it's elastic, it doesn't mean Gum is Rubber.

There is not even a way machi would know that, because she didnt know at this point that hisoka was still alive.

Excuses.

Togashi didn't have Machi say that just for the sake of her being wrong, it was intended to inform the readers.

His Nen grew stronger, that's the fact of the matter written and displayed in black & white.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 18, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 18, 2016 ---

His Nen is versatile, are you saying Hisoka is not allowed to use applications of his powers never displayed before or new techniques? We know that Bungee Gum has the properties of both rubber and gum since the Heavens Arena arc.

Anything can be versatile, versatility isn't the same thing as unlimited. Anything can be versatile, and still have limitations.

He is not stronger. It happens only when you are dead, in the pic you showed, Hisoka is dead.

I'm not buying that.

He died and came back to life.

 

[shionoro]

"Properties" is not the same thing as being the said thing.

Property refers to an aspect of something.

Cake has properties of Sponge, doesn't mean Cake is literally sponge.

Gum has properties of Rubber being that it's elastic, it doesn't mean Gum is Rubber.

That is....a very strange argument.
You were the one who said that it is natural for bungee gum to be able to make objects sticky because gum does that. So a nen which has properties of gum making things sticky is fine with you.
But a nen with properties of rubber being able to recreate limbs, like you actually can with rubber, that is not?

Excuses.

Togashi didn't have Machi say that just for the sake of her being wrong, it was intended to inform the readers.

His Nen grew stronger, that's the fact of the matter written and displayed in black & white.

Machi was not wrong. Machi didnt say what you think she said. That is a big difference.
The nen he casted got stronger. not his nen on a whole.
Machi never said that, she used a phrase to describe nen being left over after the user is dead.
She didnt even know at this point whether he is still alive. Or do you think the elder of meteor city is still alive just cuz some sun and moon symbols are left over?

To elaborate this further because we have been over this:

Machi at first thinks hisoka is definitely, 100% dead.
She wants to stuch him together, but then she suddenly notices nen flaring up.
Naturally, she is alarmed about that. She only reason she knows how this can happen is due to 'nen staying behind/nen getting stronger', thus, she thinks that phrase to herself.
At this point, she thinks that hisoka is still dead. Because why else would she think that there is nen staying behind? This can only happen if the person is dead.
And hisoka was still dead at that point. He ressurrected himself WITH the nen that stayed behind and got stronger to give h im a CPR.
How would machi judge the ability of hisoka at that point?
She thought her thought in the SECOND in which she noticed nen flaring up.
Do you think that the nen giving hisoka a CPR was so insanely strong that it dwarfes every nen usage hisoka has done before?
Her thought only makes sense if she is referring to exactly the thing i said: Nen staying behind.

She never had any reason nor opportunity to gauge hisoka's strength at that point.
If she had thought that after he wrapped her up, okay. Then i'd agree. If she had thought 'he is faster than before/his gum is stronger than before', sure.
But that did not happen.

Anything can be versatile, versatility isn't the same thing as unlimited. Anything can be versatile, and still have limitations.

And hisoka's ability is not unlimited. Or can he make bungee gum explode now? We know that nenusers can tweak their hatsus.
And the very talented ones can even do it on the fly, as long as the changes are nothing too wild (like hisoka making his bungee gum explode or anything like that).

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That is....a very strange argument.
You were the one who said that it is natural for bungee gum to be able to make objects sticky because gum does that. So a nen which has properties of gum making things sticky is fine with you.
But a nen with properties of rubber being able to recreate limbs, like you actually can with rubber, that is not?

You're misunderstanding something or misconstruing.

Recreating limbs isn't a "Property" of Rubber.

Provide real life evidence that Rubber reproduces itself or rebuilds itself, there's no such phenomena. Rubber is synthesised; that process isn't a property of Rubber, but the conception.

Synthesis and Property are 2 distinct things except the thing has a synthetic nature which isn't the case with either Gum or Rubber.

Machi was not wrong. Machi didnt say what you think she said. That is a big difference.

She did, even the official translation explicitly stated that his Nen intensified after his death.

What you're saying is completely different. If what you're saying was remotely accurate, it would have been said "His nen remains" and there wouldn't be anything stated about Nen becomnig stronger or intensifying after death/

As far as I'm concerned in relation to the manga, what you're stating is fallacious, but that's just my opinion.

We were already told by a Phantom Troupe that Nen can get stronger after death, so why wouldn't Machi know that too? the translation is clear and lacks consistency with your narrative which to me is contrived.

 

[shionoro]

You're misunderstanding something or misconstruing.

Recreating limbs isn't a "Property" of Rubber.

Provide real life evidence that Rubber reproduces itself or rebuilds itself, there's no such phenomena. Rubber is synthesised; that process isn't a property of Rubber, but the conception.

Synthesis and Property are 2 distinct things except the thing has a synthetic nature which isn't the case with either Gum or Rubber.

I am not misunderstanding. The properties of rubber make it very easily possible to create limbs out of it (which would not be possible with gum).
And that is what hisoka did.
Rubber is harder, it does not dent easily. There are actual artificial limbs made partially out of rubber.

She did, even the official translation explicitly stated that his Nen intensified after his death.

What you're saying is completely different. If what you're saying was remotely accurate, it would have been said "His nen remains" and there wouldn't be anything stated about Nen becomnig stronger or intensifying after death/

As far as I'm concerned in relation to the manga, what you're stating is fallacious, but that's just my opinion.

We were already told by a Phantom Troupe that Nen can get stronger after death, so why wouldn't Machi know that too? the translation is clear and lacks consistency with your narrative which to me is contrived.

No, because i already told you that those phrases are used interchangeably.
There is exactly ONE THING in the manga which is referred to both by 'nen getting stronger' and 'nen staying behind'.
And that is exactly that: Nen that has stayed behind. Which, to justify the second phrasing, also gets stronger in many cases than it was before.

As i said: Machi could not even be referring to hisoka himself because she has no way to gauge his nenstrength in the moment she thought that.

Machi KNOWS that nen can get stronger after death, but the word she uses 'nen getting stronger' is referring to just that: A casted nen ability which gets stronger after the user died.
It is referring to that, to exactly that, which has nothing to do with hisoka or his strength.
It is her way of phrasing the one thing she can think of that would explain the flaring up of aura in hisoka's body.

Hisoka used the same phrasing for chrollo's ability with sun and moon 'nen getting stronger', and in that case, he equally was not referring to a person but to an abilty which was already casted (the sun and moon seals in meteor city).

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

No, because i already told you that those phrases are used interchangeably.

False.

If that were the case, it'd have been said his Nen remained.

There's a huge difference between something remaining to exist and something getting stronger.

What you're saying here is simply untrue.

As i said: Machi could not even be referring to hisoka himself because she has no way to gauge his nenstrength in the moment she thought that.

Yeah sure.

That's why she said it while the screen was focusing on Hisoka, what a coincidence.

Would be like the Manga focusing on Hisoka and Chrollo talking, and then making out that their dialogue isn't to each other, but to someone else.

Like I said, I'm not buying it. You can believe that, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a perverse distortion of what the Manga said and emphasised.

I am not misunderstanding. The properties of rubber make it very easily possible to create limbs out of it (which would not be possible with gum).

Again, another fallacy.

Properties don't make something possible to create.

Property of rubber is simply to stretch and return to original shape, there's nothing that states that the property of rubber is to by synthesised.

When you find scientific evidence for Rubber producing it self, until then, I'm not buying this theory of yours.

There's no correlation between property and synthesis; when I eat Gum, it doesn't produce itself, it's simply stretchy, elastic, extremely malleable, but it doesn't produce itself.

Hisoka did something right after his Nen was said to get stronger.

Bad writing, contrived plot forcing, you can sugar-coat it all you want, but those are the facts.

 

[shionoro]

False.

If that were the case, it'd have been said his Nen remained.

There's a huge difference between something remaining to exist and something getting stronger.

What you're saying here is simply untrue.

No. Because if that had been said, it would have been exactly the same phrase.
Nen staying behind and nen getting stronger is the same phrase.
It is simply true that there was never two different things being referred to with those two phrases.
There is no different 'nen staying behind' from 'nen getting stronger'.
It is simply the same thing. I believe it is even the same phrase in japanese, but i would have to ask one of the translators arround here.

What the manga said was 'sometimes nen does not disappear after death, and in some cases, it even gets stronger'.
That is why those two phrases are used equivalently.

Notice that Machi thought 'nen getting stronger' as a phrase, she didnt think 'Hisoka got stronger'.
The only 'nen getting stronger' we know of is exactly that, a casted nenability getting stronger after the user died.

http://hunterxnetwork.com/manga/Volume-13/Chapter-120/12

See him talking? The NEN does not disappear after death and potentially gets stronger. The NEN is different from the nenuser.
It is and always was a phrase to describe a CASTED ABILITY which gets stronger after the death of the user.
And that is exactly what happened here.

Yeah sure.

That's why she said it while the screen was focusing on Hisoka, what a coincidence.

Would be like the Manga focusing on Hisoka and Chrollo talking, and then making out that their dialogue isn't to each other, but to someone else.

Like I said, I'm not buying it. You can believe that, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a perverse distortion of what the Manga said and emphasised.

Where else should the screen be focussed than on the source of the flaring up nen?
She focus was on the nen flaring up in hisoka's body, and it is only rational from machi to assume that it is some afterglow of a nenability he casted, because that is the only thing the manga ever described a flaring up nen after death.

Again, another fallacy.

Properties don't make something possible to create.

Property of rubber is simply to stretch and return to original shape, there's nothing that states that the property of rubber is to by synthesised.

When you find scientific evidence for Rubber producing it self, until then, I'm not buying this theory of yours.

There's no correlation between property and synthesis; when I eat Gum, it doesn't produce itself, it's simply stretchy, elastic, extremely malleable, but it doesn't produce itself.

Hisoka did something right after his Nen was said to get stronger.

Bad writing, contrived plot forcing, you can sugar-coat it all you want, but those are the facts.

If the property is that it is easy to form limbs out of it, they do.
As i said: Actual parts of actual fakelimbs are made out of rubber.
You can hardly say rubber does not have the property to use it as a fakelimb.
Hisoka is a transmuter. he can make his aura into rubber. The rubber does not create himself, hisoka does it. Same goes for the more gummy aura he can transmute.

The fact is that there is absolutely no contradiction in that chapter to anything that was ever shown or said in the manga.

 

[uberfayt]

Excuses.

Togashi didn't have Machi say that just for the sake of her being wrong, it was intended to inform the readers.

His Nen grew stronger, that's the fact of the matter written and displayed in black & white.

That's where you're wrong. It's true that in most mangas the autors basically speak through their characters, this is the case in One piece for example. In Hunter x Hunter however, Togashi lets his characters express their own opinions, and eventhough they are convincing they don't turn out to be true all the time, which makes it more interesting. That's why when machi says "nen becoming stronger after death", she was not confirming that it's actually what happened, but was just stating the first thing which came to her mind given the circumstances.

There are many instances of this in the manga, but I'm too lazy to show them to you

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Nen staying behind and nen getting stronger is the same phrase.

Not true.

1. Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death.
2. Nen can disappear after death.
3. And it can get stronger in some cases that it doesn't disappear, not all cases.

We've been given 3 possibilities, you're giving 1 possibility; you're wrong in this case.

1. Nen getting stronger after death, the 3rd option, so you're clearly in denial saying otherwise.

Notice that Machi thought 'nen getting stronger' as a phrase

That's untrue, you say though because that's what you want to believe, you're discrediting her.

It's a rhetorical question and it is consistent with what Phinks said, so what you're saying is certain fallacious.

Are you going to say Phinks "thought" too? I'd take the Manga citation over yours.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2016 ---

That's where you're wrong. It's true that in most mangas the autors basically speak through their characters, this is the case in One piece for example. In Hunter x Hunter however, Togashi lets his characters express their own opinions, and eventhough they are convincing they don't turn out to be true all the time, which makes it more interesting. That's why when machi says "nen becoming stronger after death", she was not confirming that it's actually what happened, but was just stating the first thing which came to her mind given the circumstances.

There are many instances of this in the manga, but I'm too lazy to show them to you

Well, you're wrong.

Nen getting stronger after Death was stated by Phinks to be possible, she clearly knows about this phenomenon, and we've seen the result of it. Hisoka doing things that he has never done until this Resurrection. There's correlation with every action and they complement each other with that premise in mind.

What you're doing is merely making excuses to state that Togashi didn't create a plot-hole when it is the reality.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2016 ---

See him talking? The NEN does not disappear after death and potentially gets stronger. The NEN is different from the nenuser.
It is and always was a phrase to describe a CASTED ABILITY which gets stronger after the death of the user.
And that is exactly what happened here.

You're simply playing a game of semantics.

When Morel asked Gon to show off his aura during the ant arc, he was more or less asking him to show off his strength.

Nen belongs to the user, so it is their power.

If their Nen is stronger, then so are they.

Gon trained his Nen to be stronger, so he is stronger.

You're simply beating around the bush.

 

[uberfayt]

Well, you're wrong.

Nen getting stronger after Death was stated by Phinks to be possible, she clearly knows about this phenomenon, and we've seen the result of it. Hisoka doing things that he has never done until this Resurrection. There's correlation with every action and they complement each other with that premise in mind.

What you're doing is merely making excuses to state that Togashi didn't create a plot-hole when it is the reality.

No you're wrong. You didn't even answer to what I'va stated...I clearly am not talking about the resurrection process, but about how to take characters' opinions into consideration

 

[shionoro]

We've been given 3 possibilities, you're giving 1 possibility; you're wrong in this case.

We have been given two possibilities of 'nen staying behind', and this has been referred to in the manga by the phrase 'nenstayingbeihnd' and 'nengettingstronger'.
Those two things have been used equivalently.
That is what i am saying from the beginning on.
They are used for the thing phinks describes.

Which is a CASTED NEN ABILITY which STAYS BEHIND and MAY GET STRONGER.
Emphasis on the CASTED. So i have proven you that this has been referred to as 'nen getting stronger'. Which is what machi thought.
Which is nothing about hisoka getting stronger.

So we have seen that the spiders know about nen getting stronger after death, which refers to a casted nen ability.
And we then saw machi thinking 'nen getting stronger' when she noticed nen flaring up in hisoka's body.
Which shows us that she thinks a casted ability of hisoka has stayed behind and got stronger.
That has nothing to do with her thinking that hisoka as a nen user got stronger.
She has to think hisoka is dead for the nen ability to get stronger.
And Hisoka WAS DEAD at that point, because that was shortly before his ressurection.

So exactly what is said happened: Machi thought nen stayed behind and got stronger (which it did), and THEN hisoka ressurected himself with that nen which got stronger, which refers to the bungee gum in his body and on his fingertips.
After that, Hisoka is back to normal and the treads vanish. Every nen he uses after that is absolutely normal, because it has nothing to do anymore with the nen that was left behind.

Well, you're wrong.

Nen getting stronger after Death was stated by Phinks to be possible, she clearly knows about this phenomenon, and we've seen the result of it. Hisoka doing things that he has never done until this Resurrection. There's correlation with every action and they complement each other with that premise in mind.

What you're doing is merely making excuses to state that Togashi didn't create a plot-hole when it is the reality.

Yes, Machi knew about nen getting stronger, but only in the sense of a casted ability.
It has nothing to do with what you think it does.

And it is completely illogical to think that.
Machi cannot gauge hisoka's strength because he was dead at that point.
She also could not see any new nen ability.
How would she even know hisoka got stronger?

It makes absolutely no sense that she could judge that. THAT would be a plothole.

You're simply playing a game of semantics.

When Morel asked Gon to show off his aura during the ant arc, he was more or less asking him to show off his strength.

Nen belongs to the user, so it is their power.

If their Nen is stronger, then so are they.

Gon trained his Nen to be stronger, so he is stronger.

You're simply beating around the bush.

I am not playing semantics, i am looking at the facts in the manga.
The nencapacity someone can show has nothing to do with nen staying behind.
Nen staying behind is something like a curse, and even very weak nen can get strong after a useer died, for example if he held a grudge.

You have it the false way round.
Gon did not train his nen so he got stronger, gon got stronger, and so did his nen.
He trained his body to be able to keep up nen output steadier and stronger and thus had more nencapacity at his disposal, and he also trained to be more accurate with his usage of nen.
It is his body that got better at nenoutput and nenusage.

In the case of nenstaying behind however, the body is dead. The nenability alone gets stronger.
To think that hisoka got stronger after that would mean that you think something in his body changed just because the bungee grum treads arround his fingertips got stronger after his death.
But that makes no sense. The only reason hisoka is alive is because he used nengettingstronger to CPR him.

The nen he uses now did not stay behind. It comes out of the same body he had before. No more training, no stronger nen nodes, no more refined abilites.

 

[Spirit]

Not true.

1. Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death.
2. Nen can disappear after death.
3. And it can get stronger in some cases that it doesn't disappear, not all cases.

We've been given 3 possibilities, you're giving 1 possibility; you're wrong in this case.

1. Nen getting stronger after death, the 3rd option, so you're clearly in denial saying otherwise.

That's untrue, you say though because that's what you want to believe, you're discrediting her.

It's a rhetorical question and it is consistent with what Phinks said, so what you're saying is certain fallacious.

Are you going to say Phinks "thought" too? I'd take the Manga citation over yours.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2016 ---

Well, you're wrong.

Nen getting stronger after Death was stated by Phinks to be possible, she clearly knows about this phenomenon, and we've seen the result of it. Hisoka doing things that he has never done until this Resurrection. There's correlation with every action and they complement each other with that premise in mind.

What you're doing is merely making excuses to state that Togashi didn't create a plot-hole when it is the reality.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2016 ---

You're simply playing a game of semantics.

When Morel asked Gon to show off his aura during the ant arc, he was more or less asking him to show off his strength.

Nen belongs to the user, so it is their power.

If their Nen is stronger, then so are they.

Gon trained his Nen to be stronger, so he is stronger.

You're simply beating around the bush.

Wait so pretty much, Nen comes from within right? So it's objective for each user. If it was a universal force, It would make sense if it didn't disappear after death

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

No you're wrong. You didn't even answer to what I'va stated...I clearly am not talking about the resurrection process, but about how to take characters' opinions into consideration

It wasn't an opinion, but an exclamation in form of rhetorical question.

By your logic, Machi saying "Aura?" is opinion; rhetorical questions that are not answered because it's obvious, it's merely a literary device used to make emphasis to a certain point.

One could take your premise a step further and prove it wrong, she said "Nen", is her pointing out "Nen" in this rhetorical question opinion?

So, you are wrong as I said.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2016 ---

Wait so pretty much, Nen comes from within right? So it's objective for each user. If it was a universal force, It would make sense if it didn't disappear after death

Phinks said it doesn't necessarily disappear after death which means it does have the potential to disappear too.

Nen has the possibility to linger even after death (assuming the owner of the Nen had a grudge), Phinks also spoke about that in that same chapter,

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2016 ---

We have been given two possibilities of 'nen staying behind', and this has been referred to in the manga by the phrase 'nenstayingbeihnd' and 'nengettingstronger'.

When you have the phrase "in some cases" in any sentence, you're dealing with probabilities; Phinks also stated it becomes even stronger which means in some cases, Nen thta stays behind gets stronger.

If what you said were remotely true, all Phinks needed to say was "Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death" and end it at that, but he developed on it and said it does have the chance to grow stronger.

Like I said, I'd rather believe the Manga over your statement which is completely false in light of what is said in the Manga.

You can play all the semantics you want, but the strength of characters is determined by the strength of their Nen/Aura; when Nen gets stronger, it inherently means the character has become stronger. Nen may not be the only factor that determines strength, physical attributes such as strength and speed play a role, but it'd be complete fallacy to pretend like Nen isn't also a constituent in determining strength.

 

[uberfayt]

It wasn't an opinion, but an exclamation in form of rhetorical question.

By your logic, Machi saying "Aura?" is opinion; rhetorical questions that are not answered because it's obvious, it's merely a literary device used to make emphasis to a certain point.

One could take your premise a step further and prove it wrong, she said "Nen", is her pointing out "Nen" in this rhetorical question opinion?

So, you are wrong as I said.

Again you are totally avoiding my point, which i'm pretty sure you understood from the begining, so there is nothing to add there. Second of all, there is no need to actually make this a course of litterature since it is just a manga, and to top it all translated by fans.

Now let me clearly state my opinion on the resurrection matter : Machi, based on what she sees and what she believes, thought that it was "nen becoming stronger after death", which could be true, or could be wrong. The answer is that we do not know for sure since Togashi left this resurrection pretty open and ambiguous. Nobody can state for sure exactly what happened, this is the truth. If you believe what a character is stating is the absolute truth, then by all means you are free to, but nothing you say can disprove others from believing otherwise.

Good day to you sir.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Again you are totally avoiding my point, which i'm pretty sure you understood from the begining, so there is nothing to add there. Second of all, there is no need to actually make this a course of litterature since it is just a manga, and to top it all translated by fans.

Now let me clearly state my opinion on the resurrection matter : Machi, based on what she sees and what she believes, thought that it was "nen becoming stronger after death", which could be true, or could be wrong. The answer is that we do not know for sure since Togashi left this resurrection pretty open and ambiguous. Nobody can state for sure exactly what happened, this is the truth. If you believe what a character is stating is the absolute truth, then by all means you are free to, but nothing you say can disprove others from believing otherwise.

It is "just" a Manga, but it has "text" (not solely images) in it, therefore, it is literature. You can't read literature and expect to just give it any meaning, you get the meaning from the context it gives.

I like how you find it convenient to question her ability to determine it getting stronger, but not her ability to recognise it at Nen, what exactly are you using as reference to selectively choose what she can recognise and what she can't?

All of a sudden, Machi who is a part of the Phantom-troupe (an elite hunter) is now being questioned as to whether she can recognise Nen? that's somewhat absurd in my opinion.

She even had "Aura" in question mark? are you also going to question if she can recognise it's Aura? I see a double-standard creeping out here, and more so if you're not going to question if she was certain it was aura or not.

However, things don't need to go that far. What was being used there is a literary device (rhetorical question), rhetorical questions are a real literary device, so I don't see what is so puzzling.

Clear example of rhetorical question is used in the panel above, it's clear that the spectators are running at Hisoka, yet there's a question mark; the purpose is to put emphasis and alert the reader to incite surprise, greater reaction, heightened awareness of the situation to sympathise with Hisoka and draw the reader into his dilemma; question marks don't always mean something is being questioned.

We even have previous evidence that Nen does have the ability to get stronger after death, so there is context.

Spoiler

You're having to downplay Machi's expertise as a Nen user simply to believe shes clueless; your stance is thread thin.

 

[shionoro]

When you have the phrase "in some cases" in any sentence, you're dealing with probabilities; Phinks also stated it becomes even stronger which means in some cases, Nen thta stays behind gets stronger.

If what you said were remotely true, all Phinks needed to say was "Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death" and end it at that, but he developed on it and said it does have the chance to grow stronger.

Like I said, I'd rather believe the Manga over your statement which is completely false in light of what is said in the Manga.

You can play all the semantics you want, but the strength of characters is determined by the strength of their Nen/Aura; when Nen gets stronger, it inherently means the character has become stronger. Nen may not be the only factor that determines strength, physical attributes such as strength and speed play a role, but it'd be complete fallacy to pretend like Nen isn't also a constituent in determining strength.

You misinterpret what i said.
I do not say that nen which stays behind cannot get stronger. I am simply saying that whether it gets stronger or not, it is still 'nen staying behind' and that those two phrases were used equivalently in the manga because it got stronger in all cases that we have encountered so far.

So if Machi thinks 'NEN GETTING STRONGER?' then she means that concept: Nen independend from the body of a user getting stronger after his death.
That is what she meant, that is the only thing that was referred to in the manga that would explain her thoughts.
I tried to explain you that she refers to the staying behind nen, i didnt try to say that nen that stays behind cannot get stronger.
I am saying the opposite in fact, because we are dealing with stayed behind nen here.

And the manga completely backs me up in every single statement i have done here.

Also: We are talking about a casted ability here. If Hisoka's nen per se got stronger, so if machi said 'oh the volume of his nen got much bigger!', then, yes, hisoka would probably have become stronger.
That is not what happened here. His nen activated when hisoka was dead (so his strength was zero).
When machi thought 'nen getting stronger' Hisoka was dead. Period. He was not breathing and his heart was not pumping out. In that state, he cannot muster up any nen. Machi cannot gauge his strength due to that fact.
The only thing that was there was the nen he has casted before: Nentreads on his fingers and inside his body.
Those activated due to his earlier command and got stronger AFTER he died and WHILE he was still dead, and they did so until his heart and lungs worked again, when they suddenly disappeared.
And that happened because this was the thing that got stronger after his death and the thign machi reffered to.

And she cannot have referred to hisoka himself, like you claimed. It is impossible because hisoka was dead.
He had to be dead in order for his ability to activate.
Now, you tell me: You honestly think that it is more likely that machi gauges a dead hisoka, who has more nenoutput than a living hisoka (leaving alone the fact that to even judge nenoutput of someone, he has to show it to you by porjecting it instead just casting an ability) in the fraction of a second than that she thinks of the one thing which has been explained in the manga that explains her current surprising situation?
I find that farfetched.

 

[XXGenesis]

Hannibal for the Win....Debating opinions in a wall of text is most likely a debate of semantics.

I don't see why you guys are challeneging facts....Hisoka died vs Chrollo...

Hisoka someway somehow (Togashi) doesn't injure his body too much so he resurrects with Bungee Gum CPR (Such a horrible event in HxH) & comes back stronger than ever...Now able to shape & form his Hatsu into that of an hand & Foot with the properties of Rubber & Gum.

Either Way Hisoka came back stronger. Machi's reaction proves this....Other characters have stated it's just what happens in death sometimes that nen will become stronger..

Still Hisoka coming back is BS

 

[shionoro]

Hannibal for the Win....Debating opinions in a wall of text is most likely a debate of semantics.

I don't see why you guys are challeneging facts....Hisoka died vs Chrollo...

Hisoka someway somehow (Togashi) doesn't injure his body too much so he resurrects with Bungee Gum CPR (Such a horrible event in HxH) & comes back stronger than ever...Now able to shape & form his Hatsu into that of an hand & Foot with the properties of Rubber & Gum.

Either Way Hisoka came back stronger. Machi's reaction proves this....Other characters have stated it's just what happens in death sometimes that nen will become stronger..

Still Hisoka coming back is BS

But noone is challenging those facts.
Hisoka died and his body was intact enough to be ressurected by his trick.

That he is 'stronger than ever' however is not a fact. It is a guess, which is not backed up.
Machi's reaction does not prove his strength. What happens in some cases is 'nen staying behind' that may or may not get stronger.
Machi identified it as such. The nen hisoka casted BEFORE HE DIED got stronger, in her opinion, and then proceeded to give him cpr.
That does not tell us anything about his abilities now.
If he had used his nen in another way than that, he would not even have ressurected and it would just have twitched arround.

 

[XXGenesis]

Hisoka since his ressurection is using his nen in ways he obviously was limited to before....

Nen if left over with a grudge, Focus or Purpose. If it stays in effect after the user is dead...It has become stronger. Once this phenomenon takes place, The nen has gotten stronger; Hence Nen can get stronger in death it simply doesn't disappear.....Ex..Hisoka revives & can now recreate limbs out of his Hatsu...Ex..Sun & Moon become stronger ability no disappearance until explosion...Ex. Pitou's headless body revives with stronger nen in order to protect the king..Ex Kurapicka's chain are probably unremovable if killed ........Nen automatically becomes stronger than it was once revived or if it still lingers post death....

 

[shionoro]

Hisoka since his ressurection is using his nen in ways he obviously was limited to before....

Nen if left over with a grudge, Focus or Purpose. If it stays in effect after the user is dead...It has become stronger. Once this phenomenon takes place, The nen has gotten stronger; Hence Nen can get stronger in death it simply doesn't disappear.....Ex..Hisoka revives & can now recreate limbs out of his Hatsu...Ex..Sun & Moon become stronger ability no disappearance until explosion...Ex. Pitou's headless body revives with stronger nen in order to protect the king..Ex Kurapicka's chain are probably unremovable if killed ........Nen automatically becomes stronger than it was once revived or if it still lingers post death....

He also User nen in was we had not Seen before on the dodgeball match in den GI arc and Noone had an issue with that. Someone telling hin hatsu is not uncommon and does not mean he has bekomme stronger. Why would.hisoka use that agility before when he never lost limbs for good?

 

[XXGenesis]

He also User nen in was we had not Seen before on the dodgeball match in den GI arc and Noone had an issue with that. Someone telling hin hatsu is not uncommon and does not mean he has bekomme stronger. Why would.hisoka use that agility before when he never lost limbs for good?

When did Hisoka use Bungee Gum in different manner during G.I???

Previous to Hisoka creating these rubber limbs...He was in battle without these limbs. & explicitly mentioned to himself he doesn't have much control or usage of bungee gum w/o a hand. Meaning Hisoka was primarily & very use to using Bungee Gum or directing it with his fingers & couldn't do such with just a forearm.

The evidence & hints of the manga out weigh your speculation.