He isn't fodderizing him through physical means. Not once did he employ any signature magic with the exception of Ars-Margia. There's no evidence Gildarts would be capable of tanking that massive fire nuke he used against Natsu and company.
If he actually uses anything other than physical attacks then yes, he most certainly is.
No it's not because that statement was on the basis of August easily tanking Gildarts punch, which came from his natural durability, not his immunity to caster magic because as Gildarts said, August can't neutralize an attack from his mechanical arm since it's an object, which essentially makes it holder-type magic
On the contrary, I don't see why Gildartz would not be capable of tanking the fire nuke that was used against Natsu.
Gildartz's durability feats are more than enough to tank a pillar of flame from August. During their fight, Gildartz was actually hit at point-blank with one of August's nuke.. and he appeared to be just fine afterwards (he even paid more attention to protecting Cana than himself):
Durability is actually somewhat correlated to a wizard's magic power. We know for a fact that Gildartz has the most amount of magical power out of all the FT guild members. That speaks volume of his overall durability and endurance stats, which have to be better than Erza's...
If Gildartz couldn't tank one of August's pillar of flame, he likely would have been defeated in their battle canonically. Especially after the point-blank nuke and multiple strikes that Gildartz had to endure.
And August tanking a single punch from Gildartz does not put him on the level of a Second Best Durability Feat in the entire series.
Tanking one punch from Gildartz's mechanical arm is expected of August, as he is the leader and strongest of the Spriggans.
His durability is definitely way above average, no doubt, but tanking multiple hits from Igneel-Powered Natsu >>>>> A single punch from Gildartz's mechanical arm.
The gap between those two scenarios mentioned above, shows how much durability a wizard actually needs to be considered a Second Best Durability Feat Character.
He isn't fodderizing him through physical means. Not once did he employ any signature magic with the exception of Ars-Margia. There's no evidence Gildarts would be capable of tanking that massive fire nuke he used against Natsu and company.
If he actually uses anything other than physical attacks then yes, he most certainly is.
No it's not because that statement was on the basis of August easily tanking Gildarts punch, which came from his natural durability, not his immunity to caster magic because as Gildarts said, August can't neutralize an attack from his mechanical arm since it's an object, which essentially makes it holder-type magic.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
No he didn't. He just said he was the strongest Spriggan. Irene literally has nothing backing her as the strongest Spriggan. August has everything. Statements, feats, and blatant portrayal.
i knew some1 will come and bring that up and? Irene admited that she was the strongest woman if she was that confident she's should have said that she's the strongest of the Spriggans
Of course Irene's claw swipe is stronger! It broke every bones from Erza, while that meteor didn't do anything at all.
Why would i assume that Deus Sema would kill everybody, when even a character who's not even top tier and who has broken bones is easily able to destroy it?
I really think you're overrating Deus Sema a lot xD
lol
yeah, i also think
wahl random bullets were stronger than his etherion cannon
dimeria laser stronger than her full power attack
bradman first seal stronger than third seal
invel was more durable without his armor than with
and august stick strike stronger than his arse magic (the suicide one)
come to think of it i can actually see a pattern. weak moves always used at the end
not the strongest
Inkn
i knew some1 will come and bring that up and? Irene admited that she was the strongest woman if she was that confident she's should have said that she's the strongest of the Spriggans
lol
yeah, i also think
wahl random bullets were stronger than his etherion cannon
dimeria laser stronger than her full power attack
bradman first seal stronger than third seal
invel was more durable without his armor than with
and august stick strike stronger than his arse magic (the suicide one)
come to think of it i can actually see a pattern. weak moves always used at the end
not the strongest
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
irene definitely doesn't believe that august is stronger than her
Look, I'm willing to concede that August is stronger than Gildarts and would have beaten him had the fight continued because you do bring up pretty good points. However, I'm still not convinced that August has the best durability bar Acnologia.
To each their own. I'm fine with the notion that Zeref has better durability then August, I do think recent events make that dubious but its certainly a debatable topic. As long as you acknowledge that August defeating Gildarts shouldn't have been a problem given the circumstances we should be good to part ways.
I also don't think that August can fodderize Gildartz like many seem to claim. It would take a considerable amount of effort for August to even take down Gildartz actually. As far as last chapter goes, Gildartz was probably only half-way from being completely defeated (mostly due to his artificial arm not functioning).
He was full way being defeated because he lost his only means of damaging August and he showed that his strongest attack couldn't even damage August in the first place. It was a matter of August pinning him (or outright killing him) into submission, which would have probably looked something like a mother trying to calm her little boy at a mall while hes throwing a tantrum.
Gildartz has better endurance than Erza, so he definitely hadn't come close to reaching his breaking point, judging from his condition last chapter. It just happened that August decided to cut the battle short by casting Ars-Magia.
There is no evidence that Gildarts has more endurance then Erza, he certainly doesn't have the feats to back-up that claim.
Overall, August is the superior combatant, but that's only because he is the one with a major advantage. Gildartz regular attacks have no effect on August because his copy magic allows him to neutralize most of Gildartz's spells. But even the simplest spell from August can damage Gildartz because Gildartz has no choice but to tank any incoming attacks.
Its not an advantage, because he has that "advantage" over 99.9% of the characters in the series, and because Gildarts is part of the .1% that can actually bypass said "advantage" its more accurate to say that Gildarts is the counter to August. Although that still got him nowhere. August is superior to Gildarts in virtually every aspect of combat, by a landslide in most areas.
So I find it extremely difficult to judge August's durability without extrapolating it, given that his general "immunity" to attacks practically replaces his durability.
August did not have immunity to Gildartses final attack when he tanked it. That was August straight up tanking Gildartses strongest attack without a scratch.
And even if @Axiomus is willing to concede on that account, I won't because the entire battle was obviously in August's favor. In terms of magic, August has the greater hax. But in terms of skill and feats, they're not far apart, even if August is the superior one.
If we were to switch the roles, and give Gildartz immunity to August's attacks, I highly doubt his "durability feat" would be the same as it looks right now.
Yes, and if we were switch Acnologias and Lucys strength Lucy would no doubt curb Acnologia.
So I don't think that there is such a thing as August tossing Gildartz around as if he were some ragdoll or dummy punching bag. At the minimum, it would take some strain and effort for August to pull off a victory against Gildartz without suiciding himself.
He was full way being defeated because he lost his only means of damaging August and he showed that his strongest attack couldn't even damage August in the first place. It was a matter of August pinning him (or outright killing him) into submission, which would have probably looked something like a mother trying to calm her little boy at a mall while hes throwing a tantrum.
There is no evidence that Gildarts has more endurance then Erza, he certainly doesn't have the feats to back-up that claim.
Its not an advantage, because he has that "advantage" over 99.9% of the characters in the series, and because Gildarts is part of the .1% that can actually bypass said "advantage" its more accurate to say that Gildarts is the counter to August. Although that still got him nowhere. August is superior to Gildarts in virtually every aspect of combat, by a landslide in most areas.
August did not have immunity to Gildartses final attack when he tanked it. That was August straight up tanking Gildartses strongest attack without a scratch.
They are so far apart its not even funny.
Yes, and if we were switch Acnologias and Lucys strength Lucy would no doubt curb Acnologia.
Actually no, by feats, Gildartz could not damage August, which is obviously true.. but there was no instance in the manga that proved Gildartz's durability is drastically below August's.
Just because you can't damage your opponent, doesn't mean that you will be easily wrecked. For all we know, Gildartz could still tank August's spells due to his immense durability/endurance stats, which will practically allow him to stall out the battle longer until he eventually exhausts himself.
At no point did Gildartz admit that he was feeling fatigued or severely injured. Even until the end of their battle, he was relatively unharmed while standing there and protecting Cana from Ars-Magia.
While it's true that Gildartz doesn't have the offensive capability to defeat August (which is why August will win.. because of his magic), that doesn't mean Gildartz is insignificant in his ability to stay standing. Given what we have of their battle, it's actually better proof that Gildartz would stall August for quite a while and push him to more effort.
There was no fodderizing canonically, and unless you can prove it to me, then there's no room to make such a claim.
Gildartz's ability to damage August does NOT correlate with Gildartz's durability/endurance against August. If anything, August will be putting in some effort if he wanted to beat Gildartz to submission.
Which is likely that he eventually will, just not by fodderizing like you claim.
And yeah, since Gildartz is the strongest FT wizard, it's practically a given that he has better endurance than Erza.
He was always leagues higher than Erza in the past, and even Erza knows that.
The way feats work, Erza would have to prove that she has better endurance for it to become a fact. If she hasn't proven it, Gildartz still holds the credibility of having better durability/endurance. Which is practically obvious at this point since Erza didn't train much over the timeskip. And Gildartz was already far superior to her before the timeskip.
While Natsu could always compete against Erza, he never could compete against Gildartz.
A wizard's overall magic power has a significant influence on their durability/endurance capabilities.
EDIT:
Only way for you to convince me that August would fodderize Gildartz would be to have a panel of Gildartz's face planted to the ground like Jellal did.
If Gildartz didn't look anything like Jellal in his battle, then that means there was no fodderizing as far as I'm concerned.
On the contrary, I don't see why Gildartz would not be capable of tanking the fire nuke that was used against Natsu.
Gildartz's durability feats are more than enough to tank a pillar of flame from August. During their fight, Gildartz was actually hit at point-blank with one of August's nuke.. and he appeared to be just fine afterwards (he even paid more attention to protecting Cana than himself):
No, they most certainly are not. He hasn't tanked anything on such a scale. That random magical blast from August that he tanked wasn't anywhere close to the fire nuke in terms of scale and you know it.
Durability is actually somewhat correlated to a wizard's magic power. We know for a fact that Gildartz has the most amount of magical power out of all the FT guild members. That speaks volume of his overall durability and endurance stats, which have to be better than Erza's...
More magical power than the other FT guild members does not equate to the ability to tank a nuke from one of the strongest characters in the series, particularly when he hasn't shown the feats to be capable of doing it.
If Gildartz couldn't tank one of August's pillar of flame, he likely would have been defeated in their battle canonically. Especially after the point-blank nuke and multiple strikes that Gildartz had to endure.
Not really considering all August did during the entire battle was engage in physical confrontations and use one magical attack that wasn't anywhere close to the fire nuke he used against Natsu and company in terms of scale. That's not a valid argument.
And August tanking a single punch from Gildartz does not put him on the level of a Second Best Durability Feat in the entire series.
Actually no, by feats, Gildartz could not damage August, which is obviously true.. but there was no instance in the manga that proved Gildartz's durability is drastically below August's.
The lack thereof is exactly why Augusts durability feats are drastically above Gildarts. August tanked a finisher from Gildarts with pretty much no damage, mind showing me Gildarts tanking something on the level of his own finisher with no damage? Or even just taking an attack at that level in general?
Just because you can't damage your opponent, doesn't mean that you will be easily wrecked. For all we know, Gildartz could still tank August's spells due to his immense durability/endurance stats, which will practically allow him to stall out the battle longer until he eventually exhausts himself.
If said opponent has no way of hurting you either sure, but August does.
At no point did Gildartz admit that he was feeling fatigued or severely injured. Even until the end of their battle, he was relatively unharmed while standing there and protecting Cana from Ars-Magia.
While it's true that Gildartz doesn't have the offensive capability to defeat August (which is why August will win.. because of his magic), that doesn't mean Gildartz is insignificant in his ability to stay standing. Given what we have of their battle, it's actually better proof that Gildartz would stall August for quite a while and push him to more effort.
Nope, sorry, it doesnt work like that. More powerful =/= better in everything, heck Erza likely has more endurance then August as well.
The way feats work, Erza would have to prove that she has better endurance for it to become a fact. If she hasn't proven it, Gildartz still holds the credibility of having better durability/endurance. Which is practically obvious at this point since Erza didn't train much over the timeskip. And Gildartz was already far superior to her before the timeskip.
Thats not how feats work at all. Erza has an established endurance feat. Gildarts needs an established endurance feat that matches or surpasses hers for him to be deemed above her in endurance, because such a feat does not exist, you cannot deem his endurance above hers. In regards to durability, Gildarts is likely more durable then Erza, but thats irrelevant.
While Natsu could always compete against Erza, he never could compete against Gildartz.
Only way for you to convince me that August would fodderize Gildartz would be to have a panel of Gildartz's face planted to the ground like Jellal did.
If Gildartz didn't look anything like Jellal in his battle, then that means there was no fodderizing as far as I'm concerned.
No, they most certainly are not. He hasn't tanked anything on such a scale. That random magical blast from August that he tanked wasn't anywhere close to the fire nuke in terms of scale and you know it.
More magical power than the other FT guild members does not equate to the ability to tank a nuke from one of the strongest characters in the series, particularly when he hasn't shown the feats to be capable of doing it.
Not really considering all August did during the entire battle was engage in physical confrontations and use one magical attack that wasn't anywhere close to the fire nuke he used against Natsu and company in terms of scale. That's not a valid argument.
I didn't say it did. I said it puts his durability as one of the highest in the series, particularly because he came out relatively unscathed.
I don't see any proof of Gildartz not being able to tank the fire nuke. You claim that he can't, but you aren't even providing valid reasoning for your assumption,
Natsu, Lucy, Brandish, and Mest all survived the fire nuke. Natsu said himself that he could only partially negate it to a certain extent. August's fire nuke is practically featless compared to Gildartz.
On the other hand, Gildartz tanking August's nuke at point-blank range is more than enough proof to say that Gildartz will not be fodderized.
In any case, I already proved my ppint when I showed you proof that Gildartz survived a magical attack from August.. since you keep claiming that the entire battle was only physical attacks from August.
Which it wasn't. So far, Gildartz has more feats of tanking a magical spell from August than being fodderized/defeated.
So unless you can prove an instance where Gildartz was fodderized in the actual battle, then I don't see August putting in minimal effort to take down Gildartz..
It's quite absurd to claim that Gildartz would be fodderized by August considering that every single manga page/panel showed Gildartz getting up after August's repeated attacks.
Canonically, the scale tips in favor of Gildartz not being fodderized, as evidence clearly shows. So instead of extrapolating wild or random ideas, I think it's safe to logically assume that August will not be fodderizing Gildartz.
Somebody said August has the "Second-Best Durability Feat" in the entire series. And I was responding to that person. That was my point from the beginning...
The lack thereof is exactly why Augusts durability feats are drastically above Gildarts. August tanked a finisher from Gildarts with pretty much no damage, mind showing me Gildarts tanking something on the level of his own finisher with no damage? Or even just taking an attack at that level in general?
If said opponent has no way of hurting you either sure, but August does.
He lost an arm and was clearly battle worn.
Gildarts doesnt even have the offensive capability to scratch August, which gives you an idea of just how big the gap is between the two.
Because we needed to see some action first, there was no fodderizing in Acno vs Irene but we know for damn sure that he can fodderize human Irene.
Nope, sorry, it doesnt work like that. More powerful =/= better in everything, heck Erza likely has more endurance then August as well.
Thats not how feats work at all. Erza has an established endurance feat. Gildarts needs an established endurance feat that matches or surpasses hers for him to be deemed above her in endurance, because such a feat does not exist, you cannot deem his endurance above hers. In regards to durability, Gildarts is likely more durable then Erza, but thats irrelevant.
Dont see how thats relevant but if he is as he is now then Natsu sure as hell can compete with Gildarts.
Durability, yes, endurance, no.
All that says is that Gildarts is stronger then Jellal.
Well, at this point, I'm just repeating myself like a broken record.
Again, offensive capabilities does not equaldurability/endurance feats. Just because Gildartz could not damage August does not mean that he cannot tank attacks from the opposite end.
As the manga clearly showed, Gildartz barely had any means to inflict damage upon August. But he was still able to get up and fight after being hit repeatedly.
This is solid evidence of Gildartz not being fodderized.
Acno vs. Irene is irrelevant here because we never had a formal battle between the two. We do have a formal battle between August and Gildartz, and clearly, August wasn't fodderizing anybody.
He'll defeat Gildartz, but not without putting in some effort.
Saying Erza has better endurance than August is quite absurd, in my opinion...
Unlike others, I don't distinguish much between durability and endurance. To me, it's the same as defense. Define it the way you want, but Gildartz will outlast Erza in any battle.. and that's practically my point.
And no, it does not only say Gildartz > Jellal.
It shows the difference between a fodderized situation vs. a non-fodderized situation.
Gildartz's face was not planted on the ground. He wasn't fodderized.
Jellal was beaten with August's foot planting his head to the floor. He was at August's mercy. That's a fodderized battle.
Again, offensive capabilities does not equaldurability/endurance feats. Just because Gildartz could not damage August does not mean that he cannot tank attacks from the opposite end.
If Gildarts cannot do anything to August then its a matter of time before he himself gets destroyed.
As the manga clearly showed, Gildartz barely had any means to inflict damage upon August. But he was still able to get up and fight after being hit repeatedly.
This is solid evidence of Gildartz not being fodderized.
He took a total of a punch and a single explosion. Thats not much.
Acno vs. Irene is irrelevant here because we never had a formal battle between the two. We do have a formal battle between August and Gildartz, and clearly, August wasn't fodderizing anybody.
Prove otherwise.....because you can't there shouldn't be a reason as to why you find it absurd. I find it absurd to think that August or Gildarts can continue fighting after having all the bones in their bodies broken.
Unlike others, I don't distinguish much between durability and endurance. To me, it's the same as defense. Define it the way you want, but Gildartz will outlast Erza in any battle.. and that's practically my point.
Gildarts has a prosthetic arm, Cana being in the battle also gave him some intel. On the other hand, the fight with August and Jellal was off-screned, we dont know what happened, while we do know that if the battle continued Gildarts face would have eventually be planted into the ground just like Jellal.
If Gildarts cannot do anything to August then its a matter of time before he himself gets destroyed.
He took a total of a punch and a single explosion. Thats not much.
Nope, it was very much a formal battle (although after the recent chapter I dont actually think Acno can fodderize her).
Not much effort, he throws a few strong nukes and he leaves.
Prove otherwise.....because you can't there shouldn't be a reason as to why you find it absurd. I find it absurd to think that August or Gildarts can continue fighting after having all the bones in their bodies broken.
You should because there is a big difference. One is being able to endure and the other is being able to take.
Gildarts has a prosthetic arm, Cana being in the battle also gave him some intel. On the other hand, the fight with August and Jellal was off-screned, we dont know what happened, while we do know that if the battle continued Gildarts face would have eventually be planted into the ground just like Jellal.
It is a matter of time that Gildartz will be defeated. I never disputed against that. But it won't be done by fodderizing Gildartz. August will still have to show some effort.
Well, one of August's nuke is a feat in itself. That instance shouldn't be ignored. If Gildartz could survive August's nuke a point-blank range, then I don't see Gildartz being fodderized by August.
Irene and Acnologia never had a formal battle as far as I'm concerned. And we don't know anything about the recent chapter. Acnologia has yet to show his true potential.
Clearly, we distinguish durability and endurance differently. I'll go by your definitions for the sake of this discussion, but in the end, all that matters to me is a person's defense. That is the deciding factor between who will outlast the other in a battle.
I'm using Jellal's battle with August as an example to show the difference between a fodderized situation vs. a non-fodderized situation. Besides, Jellal had Oracion Seis there.
I'm using Jellal's battle with August as an example to show the difference between a fodderized situation vs. a non-fodderized situation. Besides, Jellal had Oracion Seis there.
Oracion Seis being there screwed Jellal harder. None of their magic was effective against them due to his mimic magic, but he could use all of their hax against them.
Had August vs Gildarts gone on the result would have been Gildarts face down in the mud, just like Jellal and the OS. They might have actually put up a better fight than Gildarts and Cana, but it was off-paneled so we don't know.
Sorry but I find this to be a very terrible excuse. It only shows Irene has a massive ego. All in all she can not take on August and portrayal wise obeyed his orders.
Sorry but I find this to be a very terrible excuse. It only shows Irene has a massive ego. All in all she can not take on August and portrayal wise obeyed his orders.
depends whether august have a way to get past Irene's dragon scales. if the fire pillar was indeed natsu's ability then August will wreck, but if it was just a regular fire magic then Irene wins.
Irene has dragon form which has heavy physical stats, so she can just fight with his physical stats, but with August having Meteor, racer's magic, and Cobra's magic i don't see how Irene will even land a single blow.
Oracion Seis being there screwed Jellal harder. None of their magic was effective against them due to his mimic magic, but he could use all of their hax against them.
Had August vs Gildarts gone on the result would have been Gildarts face down in the mud, just like Jellal and the OS. They might have actually put up a better fight than Gildarts and Cana, but it was off-paneled so we don't know.
Well, I doubt Oracion Seis made it worse for Jellal. When Midnight used his Spiraling spell, Jellal wasn't hit by it. If anything, I think we could say that OS didn't make it any better for Jellal, but didn't make it any worse either.
And even if we assume that it put Jellal at a disadvantage... By the time August fought Gildartz, not only did he have all of OS's magic (such as Cobra's hearing senses and Racer's speed, etc), but he also had Jellal's magic (such as meteor).
So Gildartz actually had even more difficult time than Jellal because he had to deal with a more powerful August who had already copied Jellal's magic + OS's magic.
And one distinct difference is Jellal's reaction compared to Gildartz's reaction. Throughout the entire battle, Gildartz's didn't exactly comment about August in a surprised or shocked way.
But during Jellal's battle, Jellal was actually stunned by August's magic/power and made several comments about "losing" the match.
Gildartz never admitted that he was defeated/beaten. But Jellal made a definite comment that August beat him and Oracion Seis combined single-handedly. This showed that Gildartz stood a better chance against August than Jellal + OS.
But anyways, I didn't bring Jellal in to compare the difference between the 2 battles.
I brought Jellal's case in to show the difference between fodderizing vs. non-fodderizing. Somebody who is still standing and fighting to the end (Gildartz) cannot be considered fodderized. Somebody who is instantly put down admitting defeat can be considered fodderized.
Well, I doubt Oracion Seis made it worse for Jellal. When Midnight used his Spiraling spell, Jellal wasn't hit by it. If anything, I think we could say that OS didn't make it any better for Jellal, but didn't make it any worse either.
And even if we assume that it put Jellal at a disadvantage... By the time August fought Gildartz, not only did he have all of OS's magic (such as Cobra's hearing senses and Racer's speed, etc), but he also had Jellal's magic (such as meteor).
So Gildartz actually had even more difficult time than Jellal because he had to deal with a more powerful August who had already copied Jellal's magic + OS's magic.
And one distinct difference is Jellal's reaction compared to Gildartz's reaction. Throughout the entire battle, Gildartz's didn't exactly comment about August in a surprised or shocked way.
But during Jellal's battle, Jellal was actually stunned by August's magic/power and made several comments about "losing" the match.
Gildartz never admitted that he was defeated/beaten. But Jellal made a definite comment that August beat him and Oracion Seis combined single-handedly. This showed that Gildartz stood a better chance against August than Jellal + OS.
But anyways, I didn't bring Jellal in to compare the difference between the 2 battles.
I brought Jellal's case in to show the difference between fodderizing vs. non-fodderizing. Somebody who is still standing and fighting to the end (Gildartz) cannot be considered fodderized. Somebody who is instantly put down admitting defeat can be considered fodderized.
how is OS being there an upgrade for jellal when them fighting will give August considerable number of haxxes
Cobra's Precognition + Racer Slow Time Perception + Midnight's automatic reflector on top of having Jellal's meteor how are you even gonna hit this guy? any form of attack that's non-living will get auto-reflected by midnight's hax(example a sword like what brandish did will get auto deflected) while you can't touch him due to cobra's precog + Racer slowing down your perception of time + Meteor.. OS just upgraded August more than they helped jellal which i don't think means anything because August stil lhad those OS spells when he fought Gildarts anyway, but just saying.that OS didn't help at all
how is Jellal admitting defeat make Gildarts' stronger? Gildarts found a way around August magic, while Jellal didn't. and admitting his defeat doesn't make gildarts stronger than jellal, wtf? he admitted defeat because he had 0 hope left they've done everything in their power, but all failed they had 0 option left. while Gldarts had found a way around the hax so he's not in a complete despair as CS because he know what abilities will go through,even if there's a minuscule chance of pulling it off he still has hope he knows what abilities will past through, while in Jellal's case they've done everything but there is absolutely nothing left to do.
for all we know August could've spammed them Sema, and Abyss Break if that's the case( IM NOT SAYING IT IS WHAT HAPPENED) then surely Jellal being in that predicament means nothing when you compare it to how August vs Gildarts went.
Geesh, people really are desperately trying to downplay Jellal after this Chapter tons of people are so insecure with Jellal's current feats.
^Dude, we're comparing fictional characters... Not saying I disagree or agree with you.
OT: August wins. How this thread has reached 16 pages baffles me. No caster mage (except Acno and Zeref) without any holder type abilities/magical tools can beat August.
