Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[savethecat]

When does the first issue of Jump Giga release?

 

[WesKR]

Was the first opening for Nurarihyon no Mago Sennen Makyou. The anime wasn't very good but at least the music was decent.


And of course, Death Parade's opening quickly became a favorite of mine.

 

[Leoat12]

When does the first issue of Jump Giga release?

April 28th

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2017 ---

I hope that Komi Naoshi makes another appearance this year in Jump GIGA or any other magazine. *-*

 

[Shinji Hirako]

Assuming Jump celebrate the 50th anniversary the same way as with the 40th who do you guys think will share the honour of holding the trophy. I think its safe to assume that if four characters will share the honour then it will be Luffy, Deku, Asta and Hinata(by then Gintama will be over and Black Clover will be more popular as it's anime should be out).

 

[Doughboy]

I'm trying to like Boruto but it's a failure so far, and I know it's only two chapters in the new material but it's so lame. Not sure why the artist is drawing Sarada like a hoe lol like leg shots and heels, I don't know how to feel about that. I think I would much rather watch Team Boruto on missions,

Spoiler

and then Boruto discovering his curse mark that Sasuke is examining, instead of some fat kid being his master smh

leading into who is this Kawaki dude instead of the route it's on now. Even slice of life like the gaming cards in this chapter was more interesting than the ending. But so far it's really bad. Hope the anime makes up for this.

 

[Leoat12]

Only Luffy has the merits to have this honor right now in Jump.

 

[Shinji Hirako]

Only Luffy has the merits to have this honor right now in Jump.

To be fair One Piece is a phenomenon that may never happen again. Jump needs to understand that not everything can live up to One Piece and I believe they know that.

 

[Leoat12]

All manga right now in Jump, with the exception of One Piece, didn't contribute much to the history of the magazine, they are too young, Haikyuu is the only one with more than 5 years? They will have to design the commemoration another way then because a trophy simbolizes merit, a long effort and contribution to the magazine, it simbolizes the contributions that was made in the past to reach this age. Therefore, I think that they should do something different, focused on the future, then a lot of mangas in Jump can appear. Got it the nuance?

 

[Shinji Hirako]

All manga right now in Jump, with the exception of One Piece, didn't contribute much to the history of the magazine, they are too young, Haikyuu is the only one with more than 5 years? They will have to design the commemoration another way then because a trophy simbolizes merit, a long effort and contribution to the magazine, it simbolizes the contributions that was made in the past to reach this age. Therefore, I think that they should do something different, focused on the future, then a lot of mangas in Jump can appear. Got it the nuance?

I agree with you. If they were going to replicate the same celebration Naruto would be there again because there is no way that any other Jump manga apart from One Piece has contributed more to the magazine since 2008. They should just do a group celebration considering how the magazine has so many new series that haven't made a name for themselves yet.

 

[TyVip]

Just do a throw back, easily.

 

[SkerllyFC]

Regarding the topic with Adaptions-
It's difficult. The Dom, an Internet-critic for Book->Movie adaptions(his videos are fittingly called "Lost in Adaptation") said several times, that a good adaption doesnt mean it overall a good product(which was already said in this thread, I know). Sometimes something which worked in the original media, doesnt have to work in its adaptation(That's also a reason why there are so many bad video-game movies. Because video games are supposed to be PLAYED, not watched!). For example, in books many thoughts & character-development happen in the head of the protagonist, something which doesnt really work in a movie. In Manga and Anime it's a little bit trickier, because they are quite similiar already. Ironically, I know an instant of a change, it happened in the first season of Attack on Titan. When Annie Leonhart got "unmasked", without spoiling too much, her reaction was a creepy smile in the manga. In the anime it was changed into a hysteric laughing fit, where she blushed. isayama himself ordered this change, so far I know, because he wanted her to portray more "human"- His opinion was, her reaction in the manga was too one-dimensional. Which I get. Still bothered me, because it was out-of-character and just... weird.
In the end, I wouldnt demonize changes, if necessary because it's another media, or if it's actual improvement to the source material. But there we also have to accept, that there will be endless discussions, when something is an improvement and what not.

Another thing we have to understand is what is an adaptation that IS STILL BASED ON THE SOURCE MATERIAL, and what is a LOOSE one.

A "IS STILL BASED ON THE SOURCE MATERIAL" one is that where the director works with the source material he has, and even if he makes changes, these changes work under the rules of the source material´s in-universe. Or work based on the substance of the source material. All of this is independent of if the changes made a bad or good standalone series. As much as you want to negate it, here´s the thing:

• The changes in FMA 2003 are more about adding a new narrative, but that still works under the rules of FMA´s in-universe. And is still about two brothers fighting the seven dealy sins, and enemies who use the alchemy for the wrong reasons.
• Twin Star Exorcists´ changes still work under the rule of its in-universe. This is still a series about a loving couple of teens fighting demons alongside other exorcists. And the enemies are still based on the manga´s established substance.
• 90´s Sailor Moon is the same show about magical girls fighting magical enemies, but the changes are mostly upgrades in narrative and character writing.
• As much as you hate Naruto´s non-canon material, they´re still about ninjas fighting bad guys and learning how to be better ninjas.

A "LOOSE" one is where the director only takes some bits about the source material, but creates a new product, with a new substance and new themes.

• Gatchaman Crowds is a loose one, because it takes the concept of a traditional superhero series about a team of heroes fighting bad guys, and putting that concept in a series that questions the morals of superheroes, the suits are changed for digital armors, and the teams is one of teenagers.
• Or the first Ghost in the Shell movie, that takes a manga that doesn´t take itself seriously, and it changed it for a deeper story with philosophical questions.
• And Gundam Biuld Fighters, which takes the original series, that shows the dangers of war using mecha wars, and transforms it into a good tournament series where you build gunplas and duke it out with other builders.

You´re probably wanna hate me for saying these things, saying that I didn´t do any investigation, or I just pulled these facts out of my ass, but if you investigate more about what an adaptation means, you would see how things are in reality, as opposed to the common consensus.

 

[Tamil]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/dai...350-million-copies-in-print-worldwide/.114254

 

[Koi Kage]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/dai...350-million-copies-in-print-worldwide/.114254

There is going to be a big problem that's going to arise once One Piece ends and we all know it. One Piece is the last of a dying breed and once it's gone the manga industry will inevitably slowly receded back into relative obscurity again unless Jump decides to milk every last drop out of One Piece as a series, which I really hope they don't there already doing that with Boruto and at least the way I've interpreted how some fans of the original feel about it it's not going to last as long as the original. Yes I know it's only for making money that Jump will do that but they should just let the series die in peace placing to many eggs in the basket will only cause ruin in the long run.

 

[Shinji Hirako]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/dai...350-million-copies-in-print-worldwide/.114254

This is why I take sales numbers with a grain of salt these days.

In November 2013 the One Piece manga had 345 million in print worldwide: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...lion-copies-in-print-worldwide?ann-edition=uk

That was three and a half years ago and it must have been accurate for it to come from viz and be advertised in the New York Times. This means One Piece has been massively overestimated until now because there has been three full oricon years since then and who knows how much it sold outside of Japan yet it went up by 5 million. What?

 

[TyVip]

This is why I take sales numbers with a grain of salt these days.

In November 2013 the One Piece manga had 345 million in print worldwide: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...lion-copies-in-print-worldwide?ann-edition=uk

That was three and a half years ago and it must have been accurate for it to come from viz and be advertised in the New York Times. This means One Piece has been massively overestimated until now because there has been three full oricon years since then and who knows how much it sold outside of Japan yet it went up by 5 million. What?

One Piece entered Guinness Record with 320 million printed worldwide as of December 2014. I would assume these numbers are provided by Shuiesha themselves.

One Piece on average every year it sold 12~15 million copies, so I would assume 350 million is not far off. Hopefully Shuiehsa will put one of those Japan print number on the newest One Piece volume.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Say it to One Piece and its bad pace.
Maybe my experience watching animes is too small for your almost divine knowledge, but I dare to say that we are better without long animes.

So you're comparing a ton, and by a ton I'm really talking of a ton, of series with bad pacing, with one series that you think has bad pacing. Also note that having parts badly paced is different than having bad pacing throughout. Pacing is not a constant in an entire series.

That you think we are better without long animes I know! I think the opposite. Still the amount of long running series didn't diminished, what happened is the amount of short series increased, exponentially.

I agree with you on the 12-24 episode thing almost completely, but your opinion on the 1999 series of HXH is subjective. I for one do not believe that changing characterization in a series really makes it "better". Though for the sake of argument, lets say that it did, isn't that a fallacy of an adapation? I mean if for example, your favorite manga got an anime, and then when the anime premiered the characters acted way differently than in the manga that you've gotten used to and love, wouldn't you on some level be a bit disappointed? That's how I feel toward 1999 HXH. It mishandled the the characters and made what was unique very generic and shallow. While I admit I used to hate on 1999 wholesale, I will give it credit that it had much more inspired direction, somewhat better music (I love OP 2 for the TV 1999 run), although what it had in that it lacked in artistic consistency. Some episodes looked great while others looked terrible. 2011 had this too, but to a lesser extent. Fair enough that animation techniques have come a long way since then, but still. I can't forgive the missteps that the 1999 anime had with the character development/treatment, so that's why it'll always be the lesser adaption in my opinion. Why should I settle for a show that's sorta like HXH: The manga in some some ways, when I want to watch something that's closer to the original manga I liked? That's not to say I want something that's 1:1 for every frame, because even Gintama which is a pretty faithful adaption made some changes that did enhance the anime adaption, however it seemed to me that the staff of that had a pretty tacit understanding of how the characters and world of the series tick in opposition to HXH's first adaption that sorta just did it's own thing and by doing so killed a lot of the uniqueness that the manga had. So while you enjoyed it more, and that's totally fine, going in a different direction from the source material is cool if you do it right, which 1999 did not. I basically agree with the sentiment that both adaptions had flaws, but at the very least --tonally inconsistent or not, I feel like 2011 was at least a bit more unique.

And the stuff about Nanika and Mr. Gon or whatever aren't really the fault of 2011 as much as it is Togashi. Even if Furuhashi (who has ruined more than one adaption, lbr.) had somehow been contacted to keep directing stuff after yorkshin, he would have had to follow the same outline as the manga, so you can't say 2011 did a bad job with that when all they did was adapt what was given to them. Also why does no one include the OVA's as a part of the 1999 series? Or are you ? If so, I apologize for assuming things, but it feels like people only talk about the TV run which is only a part of that set of HXH episodes, and if we're gonna compare we should compare everything.

What has your love for the original series and familiarity has anything to do with the adaptation and its change? If you're a person that doesn't like change in the things that you love, that just makes you a person that doesn't like change. It has nothing to do with going against what an adaptation is. What you feel about something has nothing to do with that thing contradicting itself or not.
What if I am a person that loves change. And a manga that I'm used and love has a faithful adaptation, and when I watch it I feel disappointed, because you know I'm seeing the exact same thing and the same perspective than what I already seen many times. Does that makes faithfulness in an adaptation going against what an adaptation is supposed to be? Exists Many people with that way of thinking, that an adaptation is only worthwhile if it offers a new perspective into the original work.

The simple answer to the integrity(fallacy) of the adaptation is NO. What I'm expecting of an adaptation and what I feel about it has nothing to do with the integrity of the adaptation.
An adaptation at heart is just the use of the source series as a base and transport that base to a new medium. If just the base is used and the rest transformed or everything is used like in the source is irrelevant in the end. This is the old debate about conservationism(faithfulness) and progressiveness(change).
In my opinion what matters is if the choice made for better or worse adaptation or not(While HxH 1999 changes made it better, Bokurano anime adaptation is the worst changing adaptation to ever exist).

The stupid debate between unique and generic. Before debate about them define both of those concepts concretely and then explain in detail why one is good and the other is bad. Before that, just throwing those two words at me means close to nothing, because they are vague and certainly there is a agreement between us what each of those concepts really mean.
I don't think that HxH manga nor the 2011 are in any way unique. And I don't think the 1999 is generic.

The Gon thing, and I didn't talk of Nanika but that is in the same boat, didn't made part of the argument I was making and in fact it was a "putting thing into your mouth" sort of thing done by the person defending 2011, so I address it. Basically he said that ANY people that thinks the 1999 is better than the 2011 also thinks Gon is bullshit, and so because that is wrong they are also wrong into the first claim. This is a pretty shitty argument, an Ad Hominem and so a Fallacy. But as a person that in fact thinks Adult Gon was bullshit(and in fact I also think Kurapika heart mega power boost is one too) I had to explain that it wasn't wrong to believe that was Bullshit.

 

[Shinji Hirako]

One Piece entered Guinness Record with 320 million printed worldwide as of December 2014. I would assume these numbers are provided by Shuiesha themselves.

One Piece on average every year it sold 12~15 million copies, so I would assume 350 million is not far off. Hopefully Shuiehsa will put one of those Japan print number on the newest One Piece volume.

I understand what your saying but where did viz media get 345 million as of November 2013 from?

 

[Bigivelfhq]

One Piece entered Guinness Record with 320 million printed worldwide as of December 2014. I would assume these numbers are provided by Shuiesha themselves.

One Piece on average every year it sold 12~15 million copies, so I would assume 350 million is not far off. Hopefully Shuiehsa will put one of those Japan print number on the newest One Piece volume.

There is certainly some mistranslation of mistake in this case. It also seem the same happened for the guinness world record.

Just the latest volume of the series announced that in Japan the series reached the 345 Million copies in print. Are you telling me that the rest of the world only printed 5 Million copies of One Piece, when France alone each year prints 1 Million, and that for at least 5 years.

The Voucher for One Piece Tokyo Tower had information that One Piece had reached 320 Million copies in Japan and 380 Million in the world(with France being the best abroad country with 9 Million copies). And this was a little before the Guiness World record that came with a number close to 320 Million, 328 if I'm not mistaken. Those numbers also didn't came alone, and The Voucher had the story of One Piece print as well, providing more evidence of the veracity of it.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2017 ---

Adaptations that mess with the original story is bad not only for people who already know the series and wants to watch his favorite scenes animated, but also for potential new readers. Bad adaptation with a lot of changes make people think that something is one way and when they buy the manga, they see that it is completely different and may not like the changes.

And that is why Tokyo Ghoul was such a failure ... Oh, you're wrong.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2017 ---

Not a Jump manga, but seriously, I still heard some people saying FMA 2003 is better than FMA brotherhood.

It is!

 

[iceemperor]

Everyone keeps on mentioning changes made to how the source material is adapted in a way like the director, Series Composition, producer, etc have complete freedom. Besides the production committee's influence, any change made or any new material has to have the Original Creator, in this case the Mangaka, or at the least their editor's consent. I don't know how it works in Hollywood but Anime and the like make sure that the creator or editor is aware of everything change they plan to make as its originally their content that's being adapted into another format. All those fillers in Naruto, that toriko ending, all of those were done with at least the editor's approval. In addition, the editor-in-chief of Weekly shonen jump is also in the know. If you look at the credits, you'll see under planning ( or 企画) that Shueisha, or other publishers, will have people listed at that almost always has the original work's editor. Heroaca has Monji, Horikoshi's current editor, as well as the editor-in-chief Heishi Yoshihisa and another Jump Editor, Oonishi Kohei, Gintama's former editor, all listed under "企画協力" or Planning cooperation. Even with HxH 2011, the current editor (at the time), Saitou Yuu (齊藤 優), for HxH was involved as you can see in the ending under the aforementioned label. They cannot change stuff as they please.

Its partially why I get irritated when people bash studios for "throwing out Ishida's Drafts!" or other similar things as if they didn't care about Ishida's input. Ishida, in some way, was aware of everything that was changed or could not be included and in some way or another, consented.

 

[jagman1x3]

Everyone keeps on mentioning changes made to how the source material is adapted in a way like the director, Series Composition, producer, etc have complete freedom. Besides the production committee's influence, any change made or any new material has to have the Original Creator, in this case the Mangaka, or at the least their editor's consent. I don't know how it works in Hollywood but Anime and the like make sure that the creator or editor is aware of everything change they plan to make as its originally their content that's being adapted into another format. All those fillers in Naruto, that toriko ending, all of those were done with at least the editor's approval. In addition, the editor-in-chief of Weekly shonen jump is also in the know. If you look at the credits, you'll see under planning ( or 企画) that Shueisha, or other publishers, will have people listed at that almost always has the original work's editor. Heroaca has Monji, Horikoshi's current editor, as well as the editor-in-chief Heishi Yoshihisa and another Jump Editor, Oonishi Kohei, Gintama's former editor, all listed under "企画協力" or Planning cooperation. Even with HxH 2011, the current editor (at the time), Saitou Yuu (齊藤 優), for HxH was involved as you can see in the ending under the aforementioned label. They cannot change stuff as they please.

Its partially why I get irritated when people bash studios for "throwing out Ishida's Drafts!" or other similar things as if they didn't care about Ishida's input. Ishida, in some way, was aware of everything that was changed or could not be included and in some way or another, consented.

The original creator usually has at least some input, but it's still very possible for them to be ignored. I remember the author of Kumamiko basically said the anime ending was shit as politely as he could or something like that.