Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[DyanSon]

Who reads jump for girls?

 

[Ecchi Boy]

Shoujo is worse than Shounen, most of the time the girls are unrealistic sweet and more fixated for a guy than Sakura was.
I don't know about you guys' school days, but in mine girls acted exactly like Sakura, it was so natural for me seeing her like that.
Seeing her breaking the ground with a punch, that was unnatural. XD

Yeah after reading a few shoujo titles I can see why female readers would jump to shonen manga, Shoujo is pretty much the same rehash crap. Medaka Box was the first manga I read with a badass female protag. I liked her until nisio made her a douche with elder god like powers.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2017, Original Post Date: May 11, 2017 ---

Who reads jump for girls?

Me, Who do you think is on my avatar? To me all girls are potential waifus

 

[ChocoBar9]

All of the above comments just remind me that it's something of a wonder that The Promised Neverland is doing so well with a female protagonist. Not that previous JUMP series haven't have any but the two most notable examples before it are kind of hard to count.

I highly doubt people read TPN solely for Emma since her being a female isn't really relevant its just an engrossing story all around regardless of the lead.

 

[Divinenega]

I highly doubt people read TPN solely for Emma since her being a female isn't really relevant its just an engrossing story all around regardless of the lead.

Never said people are reading it for that reason (I'm certainly not). It's just kind of fascinating to see it's success when paired against JUMP's general track record regarding how it treats female characters.

 

[Lortastic]

I highly doubt people read TPN solely for Emma since her being a female isn't really relevant its just an engrossing story all around regardless of the lead.

That is correct especially with the next chapter where literally anything can happen. It's a good read and the volumes are worth buying.

 

[Leoat12]

Who reads jump for girls?

Yuragi answers your question? XD
Man, every series has to have the cute girl, guys just have to have their quota, no matter how well developed is the girl.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2017, Original Post Date: May 11, 2017 ---

I highly doubt people read TPN solely for Emma since her being a female isn't really relevant its just an engrossing story all around regardless of the lead.

Certainly, I even forget that Emma is a girl most of the time for obvious reasons.

Never said people are reading it for that reason (I'm certainly not). It's just kind of fascinating to see it's success when paired against JUMP's general track record regarding how it treats female characters.

What do you mean? Emma is treated like a guy most of the time, if she were a guy it wouldn't make any difference at all, really. That's how do you want to see girls be treated? There is no shame for a girl to show her femininity.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Never said people are reading it for that reason (I'm certainly not). It's just kind of fascinating to see it's success when paired against JUMP's general track record regarding how it treats female characters.

I mean yeah its interesting but its not really why its successful or what gets people talking about it and even in story her being female is not treated as something special (and her big moment in the series gets upstaged posthumously by Norman). So unlike say Lady Justice or Shinmai Fukei Kiruko-san most of discussion is about where the story is heading and the MC just so happens to be female.

 

[TyVip]

So unlike say Lady Justice or Shinmai Fukei Kiruko-san most of discussion is about where the story is heading and the MC just so happens to be female.

Lady Justice and Shinmai Fukei Kiruko-san have great plots I don't know what you're talking about .

 

[phoenixalia]

Shoujo is worse than Shounen, most of the time the girls are unrealistic sweet and more fixated for a guy than Sakura was.
I don't know about you guys' school days, but in mine girls acted exactly like Sakura, it was so natural for me seeing her like that.
Seeing her breaking the ground with a punch, that was unnatural. XD

Resident shoujo lurker back again. Shoujo is not worse than Shounen. You've just got to know where to look. You've got to look beyond the usual popular shoujo of abusive guys and rehashed Cinderella stories (which for some reason is always super popular in Japan ugh). Try out Hana o Meshimase, My Fair Neighbor, Kawaii Hito (Saitou Ken), Nekota no Koto, Colette wa Shinu Koto ni Shita and Takane to Hana to name a few.

Resident shoujo lurker out.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Speaking of unconventional main characters, I wonder what made Matsui decide to go with a trap lead character. Yeah Nagisa is cute, but I don't think I've ever heard of another shounen with a trap mc. They're rare enough as it is and the fact that he was the lead in a manga that was a huge hit in Japan is even more surprising.

 

[Scruffy8642]

I don't know about you guys' school days, but in mine girls acted exactly like Sakura, it was so natural for me seeing her like that.
Seeing her breaking the ground with a punch, that was unnatural. XD

This. I don't see how Sakura was unrealistic. Many girls at my school acted exactly like her. Of course not everyone, don't want to generalise, but there were still a lot, so its not hard to see why its a general trope.

Female characters in shounen arent written well because they're mostly there just for the point of it, and because they're kind of necessary, not for the story. Its a bit different when they're MCs, but the two female protagonists from Jump I can think of (Medaka + Emma) a both essentially treated as males and the story wouldnt change a whole lot if they were. Obviously id love to see more well written females, but at the end lf the day, most Mangaka are writing to be successful, not to be a good writer (unless they have past success).

 

[HIGAN0]

#24 Cover :

 

[Scruffy8642]

Yuss, a cover with the trio!

 

[HIGAN0]

Issue #25 Preview :

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2017, Original Post Date: May 11, 2017 ---

Kimetsu no Yaiba Color spread :

 

[Mawara]

About Weekly Shonen Jump manga & its treatment of female maincharacters-
I get why most shounen manga dont have girls/woman as the protagonist. It isnt the right audience, I get it, really. that's why I really don't mind.
But for heavens sake, having a boy as the protagonist AND writing crappy girls are still 2 different things. Naruto is one of the manga, which deserves this criticism undoubtedly. Sakura is really, really bad. Being one of the 3 maincharacters of a manga, where the 2 other mcs having complicated motivations & conflicts, is her only spleen about a boy, who is over the most time in the manga, a psychopath and in the end, she married that guy. It's horrifying, if you think about it.
Though, not as bad, I would also say Oda's women aren't good, either. Many share a similiar design & many important female characters are princesses with a similiar role/character. It's not horrifying like in Naruto, it's more tiresome & annoying mostly.
Though, not as deep in Bleach as fans are, I would say, Rukia was a good female maincharacter. I could only complain about her lack of screen time in the last years, I guess.
I think, George R.R. Martin said it the best: If you want to write women, then just try to write a human.
And like I've said before: I totally get, why most ladies in WSJ arent the actual protagonist. I dont complain about that. But it's still not a reason for writing such messes.

About Emma from The Promised Neverland-
I would say, currently she could be one of the best main girls in shounen in WSJ right now. Yeah, she is a tomboy, but her being a girl isnt ignored. Norman has a crush on her, she is a big sister for & to all the other kids & Isabella wanted her to be a mother, too. It's not if the manga ignores her gender, it simply treats her as a human.

But if I need to mention a good female maincharacter in WSJ, it would be Jolyne Kujo. She has good personality, she is a badass, but her feminity is still a part of her. There is a reason why she's my favourite JoJo.
Though, not a WSJ-character, I would also add Natsuo Ishido(the girl in my avi) from Teppu. She's one of my favourite characters, in all manga.

 

[justanotherone]

Ugh everytime some of you guys talk about female characters I literally get an headache... like someone else already said here you really should be able to write them right if you are a good author regardless of your gender. I don't care about the target audience (also nowadays more girls read shounens, not that it matters for them though since apparently many of them just want boys skinships and "bonds" without girls in the way) if you can write well just men you're not a good author period. Do you have to be a vampire to write them? Do you have to be a boy to write boys well? I don't think so. You just need writing experience, do your researches and be open minded all around.

Also no Emma is a girl. Do you think that Isabella/Emma thing would have gone that way if she was a boy? And her mother instinct with the little kids? Don't erase her freaking gender when we finally have a new manga in Jump with a female lead, I don't care if that's not why the series is popular, it matters to me that she is a girl and she is as important to the plot as the boys. And she is a TOMBOY, just because she isn't "girlish" enough (ugh) you all go and say her gender doesn't matter.

Sorry I got a bit carried away but this whole thing just rubs me the wrong way every darn time.

Bless your post @mawara I just posted before seeing it but I agree, expecially about Emma.

 

[ChocoBar9]

About Emma from The Promised Neverland-
I would say, currently she could be one of the best main girls in shounen in WSJ right now. Yeah, she is a tomboy, but her being a girl isnt ignored. Norman has a crush on her, she is a big sister for & to all the other kids & Isabella wanted her to be a mother, too. It's not if the manga ignores her gender, it simply treats her as a human.

Her being a girl is never brought up as anything special or significant, TPN as story could work with any of lead regardless of gender and all discussions and praise for it has literally shit to do with it having a female lead. Why people need to put so much stress into something insignificant I have no clue. Nobody here is even outright ignoring her being a female they just don't care.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2017, Original Post Date: May 11, 2017 ---

Also no Emma is a girl. Do you think that Isabella/Emma thing would have gone that way if she was a boy? And her mother instinct with the little kids? Don't erase her freaking gender when we finally have a new manga in Jump with a female lead, I don't care if that's not why the series is popular, it matters to me that she is a girl and she is as important to the plot as the boys. And she is a TOMBOY, just because she isn't "girlish" enough (ugh) you all go and say her gender doesn't matter.

Nobody here has said anything in regards to ignoring her gender but the very fact that people like you Mawara are insisting that we take notice of it makes me think that you believe all Emma has going for her is being female and nothing more which is a very narrow-minded way of thinking things and I'm glad that that the story and discussion for the series don't even bring this up. Also both of those points are very vague what within itself because you're saying that those roles can't be given to males and that they're gender specific which outside one detail the manga have anything to say about. So TPN has a female lead, who gives a shit? Most people are reading it for other reasons beyond gender politics.

 

[justanotherone]

Her being a girl is never brought up as anything special or significant, TPN as story could work with any of lead regardless of gender and all discussions and praise for it has literally shit to do with it having a female lead. Why people need to put so much stress into something insignificant I have no clue. Nobody here is even outright ignoring her being a female they just don't care.

Did you even read the posts you quoted? Also I just said that it matters to me, thanks for ignoring me, I might not be Japanese but I will try to support the series because I like it AND because Emma is a girl. Also "doesn't care" is even worse because basically they don't give a shit. Good to know /sarcasm. Also I am not reducing her just to her gender... wow now I can't even be happy because as a girl I like to see more developped female characters in what I read? I don't care about politics, I would have liked Emma just fine even if she was a boy, I care about the fact that Jump manga usually have Just male leads that are relevant to the plot and TPN is just breaking this record a bit (like... Ray and Norman are still there...). Nothing deep I am just happy... anyway I will stop now, I made my point clear.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Though, not as bad, I would also say Oda's women aren't good, either. Many share a similiar design & many important female characters are princesses with a similiar role/character. It's not horrifying like in Naruto, it's more tiresome & annoying mostly.
Though, not as deep in Bleach as fans are, I would say, Rukia was a good female maincharacter. I could only complain about her lack of screen time in the last years, I guess.

Sharing similar designs isn't a bad characteristic of writing women. A visual character design isn't a part of writing!

Many important female characters are princesses, and many important females aren't. So is not really a good criticism. And if we go that way you can complain about anything by just blindingly looking at one thing and complaining that "MANY" of things are like that.
Note, One Piece just has Alabasta, Fisherman Island, Dressrossa as arcs where Princesses are important characters. Just 3 arcs, with 3 princesses, and one of them was a 2nd degree princess and in the end didn't turned into one: Vivi, Shirahoshi, Rebecca(Not a Princess! Viola is!)

 

[ChocoBar9]

Did you even read the posts you quoted? Also I just said that it matters to me, thanks for ignoring me, I might not be Japanese but I will try to support the series because I like it AND because Emma is a girl. Also "doesn't care" is even worse because basically they don't give a shit.

No because here's the thing...there's more important aspects to a character than their gender, shocking isn't it? So you're saying you wouldn't care about Emma if she was a male? Good to know.

Also I am not reducing her just to her gender... wow now I can't even be happy because as a girl I like to see more developped female characters in what i read? I don't care about politics, I would have liked Emma just fine even if she was a boy, I care about the fact that Jump manga usually have a male lead that is relevant to the plot and TPN is just breaking this record a bit. Nothing deep I am just happy...

But you are. Ever since its serialization nobody here has brought up the fact that TPN has a female lead as being anything more than a cool tidbit rather than something that's different from the average Jump manga because we more more concern with how well-written the character was then her gender. Yeah you're happy that Jump has another manga with a female protagonist, whoop-de-doo because female characters don't already have a strong presence in the current lineup as it it including topping popularity polls and having important roles in the story beyond being damsels in distress.