Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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G_I_A

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To be fair, they've tried giving newbies a shot on several occasions with huge serialization runs, and it's only the veterans that manage to last and sell anything. It's not their fault the newbies aren't selling, since strictly speaking people are more likely to buy something they're familiar with than something that's brand new. We act like we all want to head into new frontiers, but the truth is we like the safety that veterans provide, and you guys are forgetting that the name "Jump" itself already gives a whole lot of brand recognition. Making it in the magazine that the biggest manga in Japan runs in tends to do that.

That being said, they really should try to get more rookies in the mag, which as the most recent serialization round in the magazine seems to illustrate is what they're trying to do.
This deserves a prize haha. It's nice to see a consistent opinion of someone that not only read, translate but actually understand what we're talking about.
 

ShenGao

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Dr. Stone is probably the only one of the new series i don't outright dislike and that's mostly because of Boichi's art. The story is 'meh' and tries to get more ridiculous with each chapter. From counting seconds for 3700 years, to killing lions with bare hands, to a 14 year old who built his own rocket as if he were NASA/SpaceX/ESA.
Poro and U19 are as good as dead, WNL is Nisekoi done good which isn't much, Marie is nothing and Robot tries to make me believe that everyday some guys are causing trouble on golf courses. Also how did Spring Weapon survive for so long?
 

ruggia

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We act like we all want to head into new frontiers, but the truth is we like the safety that veterans provide, and you guys are forgetting that the name "Jump" itself already gives a whole lot of brand recognition. Making it in the magazine that the biggest manga in Japan runs in tends to do that.

That being said, they really should try to get more rookies in the mag, which as the most recent serialization round in the magazine seems to illustrate is what they're trying to do.
My general stance is that it's usually the big hits from rookies that help invigorate young readership and create booms. Jump's constant push to try out new authors is what helped them stay relevant throughout the years compared to WSM/WSS. It was ultimately fostering of new talents like Oda, Kishimoto, Kubo, etc that helped Jump get its resurgence post-DragonBall/SlamDunk. Same could be said about what drove WSM's brief resurgence in the late 90s.
 

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The ideal I think would be no new series next cancellation round, instead having World Trigger and HxH return to replace U19 and Poro. We've just had a batch of 6 and I kind of want them to take a break from the new series bombardment for a bit to see if the non-instant cancellations are actually going to settle in properly or not.

Then 10 chapters or so later when HxH goes back on hiatus they can have maybe Marie and Zumou end to do a batch of 2 or 3 new series.
Do we even need to cancel anything for either or both to come back though?
 

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My general stance is that it's usually the big hits from rookies that help invigorate young readership and create booms. Jump's constant push to try out new authors is what helped them stay relevant throughout the years compared to WSM/WSS. It was ultimately fostering of new talents like Oda, Kishimoto, Kubo, etc that helped Jump get its resurgence post-DragonBall/SlamDunk. Same could be said about what drove WSM's brief resurgence in the late 90s.
It's all true. But remember that when Oda, Kishimoto and Kubo went famous, JUMP had 6 millions copies circulating. Now It has 1/3 of it. It's really difficult if not impossible to achieve the same fame and success nowadays. That's why Bomber comment is relevant, because people won't simply buy the magazine looking for new stuff. They will however if they find out that an author which work they used to read is back.

That's why I Venerate Veterans... Again... We don't have other options... Sure, a "Neverland" can happen from time to time, but it is by no means a new One Piece Naruto or Bleach.
 

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My general stance is that it's usually the big hits from rookies that help invigorate young readership and create booms. Jump's constant push to try out new authors is what helped them stay relevant throughout the years compared to WSM/WSS. It was ultimately fostering of new talents like Oda, Kishimoto, Kubo, etc that helped Jump get its resurgence post-DragonBall/SlamDunk. Same could be said about what drove WSM's brief resurgence in the late 90s.
Yeah, maybe Weekly Shonen Magazine suffers from using veterans, as some of their veterans may have famous titles, not quality titles, especially Seo Kouji and his crappy versions of Nicholas Sparks works he calls manga, like Fuuka. They may sell, but even at their peak they'll never reach the popularity of, say, Haikyuu. They should triy using more new writers. Jump reusing veterans is not a good idea, because they're not letting them go to do what they want, and if they make a new series on Jump, it may be more possible that ends up cancelled instead of being a success.
 

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My general stance is that it's usually the big hits from rookies that help invigorate young readership and create booms. Jump's constant push to try out new authors is what helped them stay relevant throughout the years compared to WSM/WSS. It was ultimately fostering of new talents like Oda, Kishimoto, Kubo, etc that helped Jump get its resurgence post-DragonBall/SlamDunk. Same could be said about what drove WSM's brief resurgence in the late 90s.
I don't disagree with that at all, honestly. It's only recently WSS has tried to be a little more inviting to new artists, and while it's not "successful" yet, it's getting there. Of course, as I said before, it does help that Jump has always just been kind of lucky to get big hits just when they need the momentum which helps them as a brand. As you said, WSM and WSS get resurgences and then dip, so they lose momentum which hurts them in the long run.

My point was that it's not as simple as "get new talent = success". While lighting can strike with one's first serialization, it's more often than not a learning experience the first time around. Jump's just been fortunate that it's worked out for them more often than not.
 

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It's all true. But remember that when Oda, Kishimoto and Kubo went famous, JUMP had 6 millions copies circulating. Now It has 1/3 of it. It's really difficult if not impossible to achieve the same fame and success nowadays. That's why Bomber comment is relevant, because people won't simply buy the magazine looking for new stuff. They will however if they find out that an author which work they used to read is back.

That's why I Venerate Veterans... Again... We don't have other options... Sure, a "Neverland" can happen from time to time, but it is by no means a new One Piece Naruto or Bleach.
The number we are given only reflect physical copies of the magazine not the online version of the magazine. Don't get it twisted when it comes to numbers we only have at most 50% to base things off of when it comes to whether or not returning authors have any impact at all, I'm one of the ones that don't really care whether they are new or old authors so long as I like the series. Also were moving to a more digital age when it comes to manga as a whole so of course there's going to be a drop in the number of physical copies in circulation because more and more people are getting the digital version for the reason that it's probably both cheaper and a lot easier to access.
 

G_I_A

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Yeah, maybe Weekly Shonen Magazine suffers from using veterans, as some of their veterans may have famous titles, not quality titles, especially Seo Kouji and his crappy versions of Nicholas Sparks works he calls manga, like Fuuka. They may sell, but even at their peak they'll never reach the popularity of, say, Haikyuu. They should triy using more new writers. Jump reusing veterans is not a good idea, because they're not letting them go to do what they want, and if they make a new series on Jump, it may be more possible that ends up cancelled instead of being a success.
So you're saying that the veterans are FORCED to come back and do manga they don't actually like? Really?

People that made tons of money for Shueisha are now treated bad just because? Makes no sense at all.

The number we are given only reflect physical copies of the magazine not the online version of the magazine. Don't get it twisted when it comes to numbers we only have at most 50% to base things off of when it comes to whether or not returning authors have any impact at all, I'm one of the ones that don't really care whether they are new or old authors so long as I like the series. Also were moving to a more digital age when it comes to manga as a whole so of course there's going to be a drop in the number of physical copies in circulation because more and more people are getting the digital version for the reason that it's probably both cheaper and a lot easier to access.
True but you really think that people are buying the online version more than the printed one? If this was true ALL Shueisha magazines would go online and so far we don't even have the Young JUMP online version. But I agree, as far as the series is good I don't care if it's a veteran or a newcomer. The discussion is not that. We're merely saying that is more likely for a veteran to achieve success. I'll give you examples:

Ansatsu Kyoushitsu (more success than Nougami Neuro), Saint Seiya (more success than the gazillion other Kurumada manga), Dragon Ball (more success than Dr. Slump which was already a great success) My Hero Academia (more success than all other Kouhei Failures), Bleach (Zombie Powder), Hunter x Hunter (Yuyu Hakusho), Black Clover and the list goes on and on and on...

Aside Naruto and One Piece and few others, almost ALL great and best selling manga from JUMP came from Veterans. And this will remain true for many, many years to come. Those guys are GENIOUS not only good mangaka...
 
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ChocoBar9

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To be fair, they've tried giving newbies a shot on several occasions with huge serialization runs, and it's only the veterans that manage to last and sell anything. It's not their fault the newbies aren't selling, since strictly speaking people are more likely to buy something they're familiar with than something that's brand new. We act like we all want to head into new frontiers, but the truth is we like the safety that veterans provide, and you guys are forgetting that the name "Jump" itself already gives a whole lot of brand recognition. Making it in the magazine that the biggest manga in Japan runs in tends to do that.
That still doesn't explain why Sunday is doing badly though, if it was as simple as "we need more veterans" then they still wouldn't be dropping at a faster rate than Jump and Magazine. Obviously they see this themselves and are adapting Jump's system to fix it since even veterans aren't selling well now.
 

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This deserves a prize haha. It's nice to see a consistent opinion of someone that not only read, translate but actually understand what we're talking about.
OT, but check out his Sunday blog. Real good.
 

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^ Disagree about Tite Kubo being a "Veteran"

Dr. Slump (2nd try) Bleach (2nd try), Jojo (2nd try), Deathnote, Houshin Engi, One Piece, Naruto, Kenshin, Prince of Tennis, Slam Dunk, Captain Tsubasa, Dragon Quest.

are all newcomers or 2nd work from a newcomer that were a failure work.


List of "veteran": City Hunter, Saint Seiya (multiple years in the industry), Black Clover (multiple years in the industry, My Hero Academia (multiple years in the industry), Bakuman, YuYu Hakusho ( same reason), Yugioh (same reason).

So it even out, there are more newcomers > veterans works but i got lazy.
 
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Bomber D Rufi

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That still doesn't explain why Sunday is doing badly though, if it was as simple as "we need more veterans" then they still wouldn't be dropping at a faster rate than Jump and Magazine. Obviously they see this themselves and are adapting Jump's system to fix it since even veterans aren't selling well now.
Oh I'm not saying they weren't having a veteran bias, I'm just saying that they're trying to fix that now.

I'll keep this brief as this is not the right thread but honestly speaking I think WSS wasn't doing so hot because it did not really have an identity of it's own. Jump is an action mag. Magazine a sports one. What is Sunday exactly? Nowadays it seems to be a slice of life/ cute girls doing cute things magazine, but for many years it was trying to be the jack of all trades and master of none. Yes, I know WSJ has popular sports series and WSM has popular action, but the ratio of what's serialized leans more toward a central "focus" in these magazines. They do need rookies, I agree, but it's not as simple as "get more rookies" or "get more veterans". There's a lot of factors/variables that one just can't control, but I think now that WSS is trying to get a handle on what it does well, it's faring better than when it was just trying to be everyone else.

OT, but check out his Sunday blog. Real good.
Ah, thanks for the plug. For the interested, you can check it out here.
 

Koi Kage

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True but you really think that people are buying the online version more than the printed one? If this was true ALL Shueisha magazines would go online and so far we don't even have the Young JUMP online version. The discussion is not that. We're merely saying that is more likely for a veteran to achieve success. I'll give you examples:

Ansatsu Kyoushitsu (more success than Nougami Neuro), Saint Seiya (more success than the gazillion other Kurumada manga), Dragon Ball (more success than Dr. Slump which was already a great success) My Hero Academia (more success than all other Kouhei Failures), Bleach (Zombie Powder), Hunter x Hunter (Yuyu Hakusho), Black Clover and the list goes on and on and on...Those guys are GENIOUS not only good mangaka...
And out off all those series that you named do you have any hard core knowledge of how many fans of there previous work actually carried over to the new series and actually stuck with it or the numbers of new readers they brought in that hadn't read their previous work, because I was a huge fan of Yu Yu Hakasho when HxH started I couldn't get into it so I dropped it ; also I never read Horikoshi's previous work and I think MHA is a pretty okay series( It could be better but I still enjoy it for the most part). Since we don't have access to those types of numbers its kind of pointless to say that old authors are the better way to go.
 

G_I_A

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That still doesn't explain why Sunday is doing badly though, if it was as simple as "we need more veterans" then they still wouldn't be dropping at a faster rate than Jump and Magazine. Obviously they see this themselves and are adapting Jump's system to fix it since even veterans aren't selling well now.
Because Sunday is not JUMP... Despite being older it has way less successes... We can't compare oranges and bananas... But okay, I'll bite... Why you guys are not mentioning WSM for instance?

Nanatsu no Taizai, FT, Fire Force, Fuuka and many others are ALL from Veterans.

OT, but check out his Sunday blog. Real good.
I will certainly check. Thanks!
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And out off all those series that you named do you have any hard core knowledge of how many fans of there previous work actually carried over to the new series and actually stuck with it or the numbers of new readers they brought in that hadn't read their previous work, because I was a huge fan of Yu Yu Hakasho when HxH started I couldn't get into it so I dropped it ; also I never read Horikoshi's previous work and I think MHA is a pretty okay series( It could be better but I still enjoy it for the most part). Since we don't have access to those types of numbers its kind of pointless to say that old authors are the better way to go.
I never said they are... I merely mentioned that's more likely for them to achieve success...

Also our Veteran definition seems to be changing again... Come on... Somebody that already published a manga on JUMP or any other major magazine is by no means a rookie... Even it the previous work before success was axed.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Also demonspeed, how I can get that purple nick? I'm a translator as well ;/
 

TyVip

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Can't really call 3 months (12 chapters) of axed series veterans. They are still an egg. One year is debatable but still just a chick.

At least 2+ to 3+ years in any magazines is what I consider a veteran, it been like that since our last "Veterans" discussion thingy.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also, what is going on again?
 

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It's all true. But remember that when Oda, Kishimoto and Kubo went famous, JUMP had 6 millions copies circulating.
By the time they were circulating they were at 3 million even lower by the time they formed the Big 3. Jump's circulation has been at a downward spiral once it reached its peak in the early 90's so to blame the drop because "there isn't any veterans" is gravely missing the point and ignoring various circumstances that has effect sales of the magazine.
Now It has 1/3 of it. It's really difficult if not impossible to achieve the same fame and success nowadays. That's why Bomber comment is relevant, because people won't simply buy the magazine looking for new stuff. They will however if they find out that an author which work they used to read is back.
Watsuki, Takei, Sawai, Yontemago and a plethora of other mangaka who came back after the success of their previous series proves this and your entire statement wrong meanwhile a young and unknown Eiichiro Oda made the most successful manga series of all time in his first serialization ever and then Kishimoto came after with another big hit which was also his first serialization ever and then came Jump's most profitable decade ever in terms of volume sales all dominated by rookies who had their start with Jump and not a single veteran in sight. Being a veteran has never been a huge incentive to buy magazines EVER so I don't know why people believe bringing back a veteran mangaka is going to improve sales especially given that in the current round two veteran mangaka are doing worse than a first timer.
 

vampire killer

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Bois you should open a shonen magazine if ya know so much. It will sell well so why stay here? Just take Kubo and people will buy it.
 

ChocoBar9

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Because Sunday is not JUMP... Despite being older it has way less successes... We can't compare oranges and bananas
That's not an excuse though. Clearly there's an issue because even the editor-in-chief has stepped out and said it was and is starting to adapt a Jump system to help them recover and find new talent. Whatever model Jump has its been working for almost 50 years now and whatever model Sunday had it stopped working after the 90's.

... But okay, I'll bite... Why you guys are not mentioning WSM for instance?
Magazine isn't doing as badly as Sunday and their model also has huge flaws in it as showcased with the debacle in 2012 which caused several mangaka to prematurely end their series as protest.
Nanatsu no Taizai, FT, Fire Force, Fuuka and many others are ALL from Veterans.
Out of this list only NnT still sells well, FT's sales have dropped considerably and stagnated for a while now and with the movie bombing its that its no surprise its wrapping up this year, Fire Force and Fuuka aren't doing well either. Magazine is strange because it is dominated entirely by veterans but unlike say Sunday most of the veterans have been with Kodansha for under 20 years, George is the oldest mangaka they have still working.
 

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The ideal I think would be no new series next cancellation round, instead having World Trigger and HxH return to replace U19 and Poro. We've just had a batch of 6 and I kind of want them to take a break from the new series bombardment for a bit to see if the non-instant cancellations are actually going to settle in properly or not.

Then 10 chapters or so later when HxH goes back on hiatus they can have maybe Marie and Zumou end to do a batch of 2 or 3 new series.
World Trigger and Hunter x Hunter are just wishful thinking, it doesn't depend on Jump editors. There is no evidence that neither of them will come back any time soon.
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Sunday just pays the price for their culture of serializing mainly veteran authors, neither readers nor authors come to Sunday expecting new authors. Readers goes there to read the good old authors that they like and new authors, when they have a really good series, they will go to Shueisha building, that's just obvious! It is not safe to assume that Sunday will publish your story even if it is good because you don't make part of the "group", if you know what I mean, Jump, on the other hand has the motto "It just has to be good". That's the view I have about Sunday.

Gessan > Weekly Sunday btw. :derp
 
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