Fantasy Laxus Dreyar vs Erza Scarlet

[Nemispelled]

But it does.
Laxus ranking is based entirely on hype. He has no good feats.
Think about it.
What is laxus attack power?
Well he actually has no scalable feat. Nuke remains featless, other attacks were rendered useless because of wahl immunity. He only has red lightening, an attack full with pof and possible wahl weakness.
Its just not scalable.
Speed feat wise we know his lb is above erza causal armor. But not above souring armor or red pants. You just cant say it is.

You.and most people scaled him on nuke hype or ignored his pof in red lightening. Or made predictions that he would be ten times stronger than his mbp form.
Non of them are shown in the manga.

Infact we barely see any difference at this point between him and cobra.
He is strong. Sure. But not exceptionally strong as many hoped.

I actually don't see how his ranking is based only on hype. In the previous arc, Laxus casually oneshotted a Tartaros Demon, something Erza never even came close to accomplishing.

Even in this arc, his feats against Wahl surpassed every single aspect of Erza's performance against Ajeel.

And I don't know what you mean by his power "not being scalable"... Of course it can be scalable. Laxus beat Wahl even while being at a double disadvantage (MBP-infection and Lightning Immunity).

That means, if Laxus was healthy and at full power against any other regular Spriggan on Wahl's tier, he would have minimal difficulty destroying his opponent.

That's common sense. And why would I ignore his PoF in red lightning? Erza has had at least 10x the amount of PoF as Laxus... So all of Laxus' feats are well-deserved in their own right.


Sure, we barely see any difference between Laxus and Cobra...

Just like how I barely see any difference between Erza and Base Wendy.

Meanwhile erza portrayal kepts on growing.
August and irene were said to be the strongest.
And they fought strongest fairy along with some help.
Pof erza overpowered strongest springgan top tier attack. She was fast enough to stand and fight against the strongest.
And now aconologia, powered up by that time thing, still couldnt tank her non ds move and was blasted out of the sky.

Unless you are ready to throw the entire.manga on its head
You have to.believe
Erza deus sema slash > laxus red lightening
Irene speed >> wahl speed

People like to use ajeel fight to dehype erza. That fight basically tells you nothing. Ajeel is not a straight up fighter like erza. A similiar analogy though a little extreme would be dimeria vs laxus fight to judge laxus strength. Assume time stop works on him, dimeria one shots him. Because laxus has no way to.counter her magic with his own. His magic just doesnt work like that.
Same way, even if erza could use etherion cannon like wahl, it would nothing in sand world. Her magic is just.not meant to deal with such huge aoe.

Erza's portrayal didn't grow.

Irene was on Base Wendy's tier. So Erza winning didn't even come as a surprise to me. And Acnologia did tank her non-DS attack. He was just being pushed around because he isn't aware of his surroundings.

The dude literally has zero intelligence because he is acting off of pure instincts while in a mindless body.

It's not hard to hit somebody in that pitiful state...



And actually, you got it the other way around:

Laxus Red Lightning >>> Erza Deus Sema Slash

Wahl Speed >>>> Irene Speed



Don't assume stuff about Dimaria vs. Laxus. That's not canon.

Erza struggled against Ajeel. That is proven by the manga. So yes, that tells us that Erza is on Ajeel's tier.

Ajeel is as much of a fighter as Erza is, no excuses.

As for dragon aconologia not being aware. That is irrelevant, we are not scaling speed. We are measuring strength. Aconologia was blown out of the sky. And yes this aconologia is.as boosted as human aconologia.is.
Human.aconologia didnt even.move from laxus.attack

And no this.is not the same acono who got stalled by irene or jellal.
He is much more boosted.
So unless you thing
Human irene > 6 ds and injured natsu
Because aconologia was much more impressed by irene than these ds other than natsu of course.
Then we cant use non.boosted acono here

How is Dragon Acnologia not being aware irrelevant?

Are you telling me it's hard to hit somebody who can't even think for himself? Acnologia doesn't even have control of his own body, that's pathetic.

Again, Acnologia was "blown out of the sky" because nobody is in possession of that body. He's literally a floating punching bag...



Sure, the Acnologia that Erza is fighting is much more "boosted".

But he now has zero intelligence, so all that "boosted power" is for naught, anyways.

Boasting about how Erza knocked Acnologia out of the sky is like being proud of taking advantage of a comatose victim.

 

[Invel > Zeref]

I really don't like to admit this but I have to pick Erza for this one. How can Laxus even beat her? Hitting her with Lightning? She would just use her insane POF abilities to tank all his attacks until he runs out of magic power. At this point, I don't even think cutting her head off would be enough to bring her down. Too bad we never got Erza vs Larcade in the manga. I'd love to see Erza somehow fight in her sleep to beat him .

 

[sharkai]

I actually don't see how his ranking is based only on hype. In the previous arc, Laxus casually oneshotted a Tartaros Demon, something Erza never even came close to accomplishing.

she did better. she defeated the second strongest demon after being tortured, then defeating demon minerva and still beat the second strongest without her senses and pain at max.

Even in this arc, his feats against Wahl surpassed every single aspect of Erza's performance against Ajeel.

no
only his pof moment was above any erza vs ajeel moment. everything else pretty much same

And I don't know what you mean by his power "not being scalable"... Of course it can be scalable. Laxus beat Wahl even while being at a double disadvantage (MBP-infection and Lightning Immunity).

That means, if Laxus was healthy and at full power against any other regular Spriggan on Wahl's tier, he would have minimal difficulty destroying his opponent.

That's common sense. And why would I ignore his PoF in red lightning? Erza has had at least 10x the amount of PoF as Laxus... So all of Laxus' feats are well-deserved in their own right.

if you believe this than i hope you bellieve tartaros erza could easily handle mard because of her triple disatvantage.
i only told you why, other than red lightening (which is full with pof, and possible wahl weakness) no other attacks worked on wahl becuase of his immunity.

yes that is why i compared to pof moments
pof erza slash >> pof red lightening

Sure, we barely see any difference between Laxus and Cobra...

Just like how I barely see any difference between Erza and Base Wendy.

laxus at this point does seems comparable to cobra. cobra is far below a springgan. this disapproves the hype that laxus can easily handle springgans at all. otherwise why would mishma not show this huge laxus power we kept hearing about from laxus fans

and no wendy was basically support.
even now wendy is much more useful against acono than laxus is

Erza's portrayal didn't grow.

yes it did.
you just scaled her opponents down.
basically you did this
sick laxus vs wahl.
sick laxus is raised to wahl hype.

erza vs irene.
irene is lowered to what ever place you put erza earlier.

do this with laxus, you get embarrassing results
gmg laxus > gmg jura
irene or august>>serena>>current jura >> cancer patient laxus > wahl

Irene was on Base Wendy's tier.

i am assuming you think base wendy can one shot laxus, then its ok i guess.

So Erza winning didn't even come as a surprise to me. And Acnologia did tank her non-DS attack. He was just being pushed around because he isn't aware of his surroundings.

The dude literally has zero intelligence because he is acting off of pure instincts while in a mindless body.

It's not hard to hit somebody in that pitiful state...


And actually, you got it the other way around:

Laxus Red Lightning >>> Erza Deus Sema Slash

Wahl Speed >>>> Irene Speed



Don't assume stuff about Dimaria vs. Laxus. That's not canon.

Erza struggled against Ajeel. That is proven by the manga. So yes, that tells us that Erza is on Ajeel's tier.

Ajeel is as much of a fighter as Erza is, no excuses.




How is Dragon Acnologia not being aware irrelevant?

Are you telling me it's hard to hit somebody who can't even think for himself? Acnologia doesn't even have control of his own body, that's pathetic.

Again, Acnologia was "blown out of the sky" because nobody is in possession of that body. He's literally a floating punching bag...



Sure, the Acnologia that Erza is fighting is much more "boosted".

But he now has zero intelligence, so all that "boosted power" is for naught, anyways.

Boasting about how Erza knocked Acnologia out of the sky is like being proud of taking advantage of a comatose victim.

didnt look like he tanked it, but no way to know.


so you are saying blowing an elephant away is easier compared to a normal human,
brain has noithing to do here. if it is strong enough it wont move.


so basically you believe you believe
wahl > irene

i wont discuss this with you, because irene is treated pretty much the same way gmg jura was treated and wahl was treated kind of like rufus.
so if you believe anything like wahl being even comparable to irene in anything, you must first show me how
gmg rufus > gmg jura
especially
gray finisher on rufus > laxus finisher on jura

otherwise it just seems extremely one sided, while jura hype was accepted without a question, irene hype is thrown down the trash because she faught fans most hated erza.

there was a reason why erza had problem with ajeel. and it wasnt power.
and we know this because erza performance against the strongest springgan, and with pof (something like red lightening) overpowered even the strongest springgan top tier move.

and no ajeel doesnt fight like a normal cqc fighter like serena, wahl, laxus or erza.

 

[Nemispelled]

she did better. she defeated the second strongest demon after being tortured, then defeating demon minerva and still beat the second strongest without her senses and pain at max.

Well, Kyouka's magic is Sensation Magic, so it's only natural that Erza would beat her while having her senses and pain at max. Technically, Kyouka could have won the fight and killed Erza, but instead, she decided to give Erza a second chance.

Spoiler: Kyouka decides not to kill Erza and give her a second chance

Laxus, however, didn't need mercy or a "second chance" from a demon. He casually oneshotted Tempesta from the start. His feats still seem better to me.

no
only his pof moment was above any erza vs ajeel moment. everything else pretty much same

if you believe this than i hope you bellieve tartaros erza could easily handle mard because of her triple disatvantage.
i only told you why, other than red lightening (which is full with pof, and possible wahl weakness) no other attacks worked on wahl becuase of his immunity.

yes that is why i compared to pof moments
pof erza slash >> pof red lightening

Exactly. Laxus' PoF moment beats all of Erza's feats, that's my point. Considering that Erza has at least 10x the amount of PoF as Laxus, it's fair to count every single one of Laxus' most PoF feats.

And how would Erza be at a triple disadvantage against Mard? It would be a fair fight, there would be no disadvantage for either side.

Sure, Red Lightning is full of PoF. I agree with you.

But I'm still counting it given the amount of PoF that Erza always unleashes. PoF Red Lightning >>> PoF Erza Slash.

laxus at this point does seems comparable to cobra. cobra is far below a springgan. this disapproves the hype that laxus can easily handle springgans at all. otherwise why would mishma not show this huge laxus power we kept hearing about from laxus fans

and no wendy was basically support.
even now wendy is much more useful against acono than laxus is

Actually, Laxus is comparable to Cobra, who is on Acnologia's tier.

Cobra tanked an attack from Acnologia. He could easily defeat most of the Spriggans, except August.


Wendy did more in the fight against Irene than Erza herself...

Erza was the support. Wendy was the main backbone of the team.

yes it did.
you just scaled her opponents down.
basically you did this
sick laxus vs wahl.
sick laxus is raised to wahl hype.

erza vs irene.
irene is lowered to what ever place you put erza earlier.

do this with laxus, you get embarrassing results
gmg laxus > gmg jura
irene or august>>serena>>current jura >> cancer patient laxus > wahl


i am assuming you think base wendy can one shot laxus, then its ok i guess.

didnt look like he tanked it, but no way to know.

I didn't really scale her opponents down.

Unlike the majority of the community, I always thought Human Irene was one of the weakest Spriggans alive.


I scaled Laxus' feats from his fight with Wahl because:

1. It's common sense that a healthy and full-powered Laxus would have a lot less difficulty defeating a mid-tier Spriggan who is not immune to lightning.

2. Laxus has less spotlight than Erza.

so you are saying blowing an elephant away is easier compared to a normal human,
brain has noithing to do here. if it is strong enough it wont move.


so basically you believe you believe
wahl > irene

i wont discuss this with you, because irene is treated pretty much the same way gmg jura was treated and wahl was treated kind of like rufus.
so if you believe anything like wahl being even comparable to irene in anything, you must first show me how
gmg rufus > gmg jura
especially
gray finisher on rufus > laxus finisher on jura

otherwise it just seems extremely one sided, while jura hype was accepted without a question, irene hype is thrown down the trash because she faught fans most hated erza.

there was a reason why erza had problem with ajeel. and it wasnt power.
and we know this because erza performance against the strongest springgan, and with pof (something like red lightening) overpowered even the strongest springgan top tier move.

and no ajeel doesnt fight like a normal cqc fighter like serena, wahl, laxus or erza.

It's actually not hard to kill a dumb and brainless elephant with Sword Magic from a distance..

Send 100 swords (from the sky) into the elephant's back, and it will be ready to kneel over or collapse in a few seconds.

Being aware of your surroundings makes a big difference. The creature could dodge, attack, or guard itself. Being proud of hitting an unsuspecting animal is like boasting about taking a cheap shot.



Yes, I believe Wahl >> Irene. I've said that many times in the past. A lot of people disagree with me, but it makes perfect sense in my mind.



Ajeel fights with normal magic like Erza does. Everybody has their own style of fighting, you can't use "CQC" as an explanation for Erza's hardships.

The only reason why Erza struggled so much is because her power, intelligence, speed, and durability are all on the same tier as Ajeel's.

 

[sharkai]

Well, Kyouka's magic is Sensation Magic, so it's only natural that Erza would beat her while having her senses and pain at max. Technically, Kyouka could have won the fight and killed Erza, but instead, she decided to give Erza a second chance.

Spoiler: Kyouka decides not to kill Erza and give her a second chance

Laxus, however, didn't need mercy or a "second chance" from a demon. He casually oneshotted Tempesta from the start. His feats still seem better to me.





Exactly. Laxus' PoF moment beats all of Erza's feats, that's my point. Considering that Erza has at least 10x the amount of PoF as Laxus, it's fair to count every single one of Laxus' most PoF feats.

And how would Erza be at a triple disadvantage against Mard? It would be a fair fight, there would be no disadvantage for either side.

Sure, Red Lightning is full of PoF. I agree with you.

But I'm still counting it given the amount of PoF that Erza always unleashes. PoF Red Lightning >>> PoF Erza Slash.





Actually, Laxus is comparable to Cobra, who is on Acnologia's tier.

Cobra tanked an attack from Acnologia. He could easily defeat most of the Spriggans, except August.


Wendy did more in the fight against Irene than Erza herself...

Erza was the support. Wendy was the main backbone of the team.





I didn't really scale her opponents down.

Unlike the majority of the community, I always thought Human Irene was one of the weakest Spriggans alive.


I scaled Laxus' feats from his fight with Wahl because:

1. It's common sense that a healthy and full-powered Laxus would have a lot less difficulty defeating a mid-tier Spriggan who is not immune to lightning.

2. Laxus has less spotlight than Erza.





It's actually not hard to kill a dumb and brainless elephant with Sword Magic from a distance..

Send 100 swords (from the sky) into the elephant's back, and it will be ready to kneel over or collapse in a few seconds.

Being aware of your surroundings makes a big difference. The creature could dodge, attack, or guard itself. Being proud of hitting an unsuspecting animal is like boasting about taking a cheap shot.



Yes, I believe Wahl >> Irene. I've said that many times in the past. A lot of people disagree with me, but it makes perfect sense in my mind.



Ajeel fights with normal magic like Erza does. Everybody has their own style of fighting, you can't use "CQC" as an explanation for Erza's hardships.

The only reason why Erza struggled so much is because her power, intelligence, speed, and durability are all on the same tier as Ajeel's.

And laxus wasnt triple disadvantaged against a demon.
And he sidnt one shot him. The demon blew himself up after considering his options.

Laxus pof does not beat erza pof. Thats the point. Non pof erza sure. But not pof erza.

We know how much erza pof unleashed. It overpowered strongest springgan top tier. That springgan move would have wiped out anyone everyone in the battle field including laxus.

Cobra is not on aconologia tier. He is just playing around. And cobra is nowhere near a springgan. He has nothing to show for it.

No wendy did not. Confrontation was mostly between erza and irene. Wendy basically only faught one on one with irene with irene body.

Then you are doing it wrong.
You scaled human irene as weakest after seeing her performance.
You did not do this with wahl. You did not scale wahl to gmg minerva tier after seeing how he couldnt even take out a dieing laxus.
Instead you put sick laxus up to wahl tier.
You should have done same with irene.
Human Irene who we know is equal in power to red form august. From mira and mavis and brandish.
Erza should have been moved up to near august level.

Here what you did
You scales laxus to wahl. Instead of the otherway around. Like scaling wahl to a dieing laxus.
And then you scaled irene to erza level, exact opposite of what you did with laxus.
Thus you hyped laxus up and irene down.

Its hard to kill a brainless elephant compared to any human. With the same weapon. You keep on talking about dodging. But thats a speed feat. Not a strength feat.
Only thing you can talk about is ability to brace, so one can tank an attack. Instinct is how people brace mostly.

Yes i can. Because erza has higher speed, against ajeel she didnt use any speed.magic.
In power she is tiers above ajeel. But she couldnt see him so that wont work either.
Ajeel does not have straight up nukes. Erza durability wasnt even shown. Her endurance was.

we can talk about
Wahl >> irene
After you show me how
Gmg rufus > gmg jura

Rufus and wahl who had bo special mention. And jura and irene hyped to hell
I never even seen people say
gmg kagura > gmg jura
Even though kagura had.jupiter tier cannon attack as a mid tier attack
And could easily move faster than even markarov could see

 

[Nemispelled]

And laxus wasnt triple disadvantaged against a demon.
And he sidnt one shot him. The demon blew himself up after considering his options.

Laxus pof does not beat erza pof. Thats the point. Non pof erza sure. But not pof erza.

We know how much erza pof unleashed. It overpowered strongest springgan top tier. That springgan move would have wiped out anyone everyone in the battle field including laxus.

Cobra is not on aconologia tier. He is just playing around. And cobra is nowhere near a springgan. He has nothing to show for it.

No wendy did not. Confrontation was mostly between erza and irene. Wendy basically only faught one on one with irene with irene body.

Then you are doing it wrong.
You scaled human irene as weakest after seeing her performance.
You did not do this with wahl. You did not scale wahl to gmg minerva tier after seeing how he couldnt even take out a dieing laxus.
Instead you put sick laxus up to wahl tier.
You should have done same with irene.
Human Irene who we know is equal in power to red form august. From mira and mavis and brandish.
Erza should have been moved up to near august level.

Here what you did
You scales laxus to wahl. Instead of the otherway around. Like scaling wahl to a dieing laxus.
And then you scaled irene to erza level, exact opposite of what you did with laxus.
Thus you hyped laxus up and irene down.

Its hard to kill a brainless elephant compared to any human. With the same weapon. You keep on talking about dodging. But thats a speed feat. Not a strength feat.
Only thing you can talk about is ability to brace, so one can tank an attack. Instinct is how people brace mostly.

Yes i can. Because erza has higher speed, against ajeel she didnt use any speed.magic.
In power she is tiers above ajeel. But she couldnt see him so that wont work either.
Ajeel does not have straight up nukes. Erza durability wasnt even shown. Her endurance was.

we can talk about
Wahl >> irene
After you show me how
Gmg rufus > gmg jura

Rufus and wahl who had bo special mention. And jura and irene hyped to hell
I never even seen people say
gmg kagura > gmg jura
Even though kagura had.jupiter tier cannon attack as a mid tier attack
And could easily move faster than even markarov could see

Not sure what you mean by "triple disadvantage".

Erza fought a demon who uses Sensation Magic, so it's natural that she would have her senses and pain at max while fighting Kyouka. Laxus, on the other hand, simply oneshotted Tempesta from the start of their battle.

I can see your point about Erza overpowering the strongest Spriggan with her PoF, but it just so happens that I don't think Irene is anywhere close to being top-tier.

Cobra tanked attacks from Acnologia (he was even bleeding). There is no way he is not Acnologia tier at this point... Cobra, Laxus, and all the other dragon slayers are Acnologia tier.

Wendy canceled all of Irene's magical spells. That's already at least 50% of the fight.



Technically, I didn't scale Irene after seeing her performance... Unlike many others in the community, I never bought into her hype to begin with. In fact, my initial impression of her was that she has an overconfident and cocky attitude. Her actual performance didn't really change my opinion either, unfortunately.



As for the brainless elephant example, "bracing an attack" is heavily dependent on a person's conscious awareness. There is no way to guard, tank, or dodge an attack when you are not personally in control of your own body.



And I don't think Erza even has any speed magic. She gave everything she got against Ajeel. And you're right, Ajeel doesn't have any nukes. His magic solely relies on immobilizing and exhausting his opponents.

The reason why Erza struggled so much was because she underestimated his attacks and fought aggressively.

And special mentions don't really mean much to me.

It's the performance that counts, not the praise/hype.

 

[Selene]

laxus is generall shown to be superior warrior out of two but you can't count out erza.

without pof: Laxus
with pof: Erza

 

[sharkai]

Not sure what you mean by "triple disadvantage".

Erza fought a demon who uses Sensation Magic, so it's natural that she would have her senses and pain at max while fighting Kyouka. Laxus, on the other hand, simply oneshotted Tempesta from the start of their battle.

I can see your point about Erza overpowering the strongest Spriggan with her PoF, but it just so happens that I don't think Irene is anywhere close to being top-tier.

Cobra tanked attacks from Acnologia (he was even bleeding). There is no way he is not Acnologia tier at this point... Cobra, Laxus, and all the other dragon slayers are Acnologia tier.

Wendy canceled all of Irene's magical spells. That's already at least 50% of the fight.



Technically, I didn't scale Irene after seeing her performance... Unlike many others in the community, I never bought into her hype to begin with. In fact, my initial impression of her was that she has an overconfident and cocky attitude. Her actual performance didn't really change my opinion either, unfortunately.



As for the brainless elephant example, "bracing an attack" is heavily dependent on a person's conscious awareness. There is no way to guard, tank, or dodge an attack when you are not personally in control of your own body.



And I don't think Erza even has any speed magic. She gave everything she got against Ajeel. And you're right, Ajeel doesn't have any nukes. His magic solely relies on immobilizing and exhausting his opponents.

The reason why Erza struggled so much was because she underestimated his attacks and fought aggressively.

And special mentions don't really mean much to me.

It's the performance that counts, not the praise/hype.

she was tortured before hand
and defeated demon minerva also
add koyoka curse

and no laxus did not one shot a any demon


on what account are you saying irene wasnt the strongest? it is estabished manga fact.
may i ask did you accept jura hype back in gmg? if so why?
wendy was only in half the fight. she canceled only few enchantments. and we have no idea why she could cancel enchanments (was power even part of the equation)

why did you not accept irene hype? overconfident and cocky attitude, what does this has to do with irene power or hype.

do you think lucy was hades tier back in tenrou arc? she took hits from hades too

aconologia had enough control over his body to blow the ships, thats actually more than an elephant awareness.

no erza did not. she has souring armor which according to herself, azuma is alot faster than the blackwing she used. her red pant was shown to be even faster when it bested kagura (who bested the souring armor).
she only used one strong armors of her against ajeel, which blew him out of the city.
she wasnt as serious against ajeel as she was against irene. she had no pof against ajeel like she had at the end against irene.
add in marin help, due to which he managed to keep her traped in his attack for i dont know how long

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2017 ---

laxus is generall shown to be superior warrior out of two but you can't count out erza.

without pof: Laxus
with pof: Erza

how was he shown superior.
erza just blew aconologia out of the sky.
she fought irene for a while without pof
her stamina is off the wall
her endurance is insane
her reaction speed is next to non
she has decent speed

and we have actually no idea how strong laxus is without pof (since red lightening was pof)


for me

erza > laxus (feat from wahl fight, ajeel fight, irene non pof moments, and aconologia)
pof laxus > erza (red lightening takes it)
pof erza > pof laxus (dues sema slash)

 

[Nemispelled]

she was tortured before hand
and defeated demon minerva also
add koyoka curse

and no laxus did not one shot a any demon


on what account are you saying irene wasnt the strongest? it is estabished manga fact.
may i ask did you accept jura hype back in gmg? if so why?
wendy was only in half the fight. she canceled only few enchantments. and we have no idea why she could cancel enchanments (was power even part of the equation)

why did you not accept irene hype? overconfident and cocky attitude, what does this has to do with irene power or hype.

do you think lucy was hades tier back in tenrou arc? she took hits from hades too

aconologia had enough control over his body to blow the ships, thats actually more than an elephant awareness.

no erza did not. she has souring armor which according to herself, azuma is alot faster than the blackwing she used. her red pant was shown to be even faster when it bested kagura (who bested the souring armor).
she only used one strong armors of her against ajeel, which blew him out of the city.
she wasnt as serious against ajeel as she was against irene. she had no pof against ajeel like she had at the end against irene.
add in marin help, due to which he managed to keep her traped in his attack for i dont know how long

I wouldn't necessarily call that a "triple disadvantage". First, Kyoka's curse doesn't count as a disadvantage because that's her "Magic" or "Curse Power". She uses Sensation Curse, so it's already a given that Erza's senses and pain would be at max while fighting her. That's practically Kyoka's way of attacking somebody.

And besides, Erza isn't the only character who has fought multiple opponents throughout an entire arc. Laxus did the same thing in the Fighting Festival Arc:

- He used up a lot of his MP to create the Thunder Palace, which was the size of Magnolia
- He fought Erza
- He fought Mystogan
- He fought Natsu & Gajeel at the same time


I see nothing impressive about Erza's feats. Fighting many opponents during a whole arc isn't a major disadvantage. Especially when Erza chose to do that herself.

As for Laxus, he oneshotted Tempesta with minimal effort at the beginning of Tartaros Arc. It was an instant kill.



In my opinion, Irene is not the strongest Spriggan because she was outclassed and out-enchanted by Base Wendy. She was complaining of pain after she got hit by a single attack from Erza and Base Wendy.

Not only did she continuously make the same blunders and mistakes throughout her fight, but she was careless and got humiliated by Wendy's enchanting capability.

She was sustaining heavy injuries from Base Wendy + Erza while August stomped Jellal + CS and proceeded to fight Gildartz.

I don't accept Irene's hype because her performance proved the exact opposite. She messed up completely.



Acnologia did not have any control when he blew up the ships.

The manga actually stated that it was off pure instinct. He followed the magic power and destroyed what he sensed was his weakness. But he has no awareness of incoming attacks from random wizards or anything else.



And I'm pretty sure Erza was giving it her best against Ajeel. Why would she hold back when she is one step away from dying?

 

[sharkai]

I wouldn't necessarily call that a "triple disadvantage". First, Kyoka's curse doesn't count as a disadvantage because that's her "Magic" or "Curse Power". She uses Sensation Curse, so it's already a given that Erza's senses and pain would be at max while fighting her. That's practically Kyoka's way of attacking somebody.

And besides, Erza isn't the only character who has fought multiple opponents throughout an entire arc. Laxus did the same thing in the Fighting Festival Arc:

- He used up a lot of his MP to create the Thunder Palace, which was the size of Magnolia
- He fought Erza
- He fought Mystogan
- He fought Natsu & Gajeel at the same time


I see nothing impressive about Erza's feats. Fighting many opponents during a whole arc isn't a major disadvantage. Especially when Erza chose to do that herself.

As for Laxus, he oneshotted Tempesta with minimal effort at the beginning of Tartaros Arc. It was an instant kill.



In my opinion, Irene is not the strongest Spriggan because she was outclassed and out-enchanted by Base Wendy. She was complaining of pain after she got hit by a single attack from Erza and Base Wendy.

Not only did she continuously make the same blunders and mistakes throughout her fight, but she was careless and got humiliated by Wendy's enchanting capability.

She was sustaining heavy injuries from Base Wendy + Erza while August stomped Jellal + CS and proceeded to fight Gildartz.

I don't accept Irene's hype because her performance proved the exact opposite. She messed up completely.



Acnologia did not have any control when he blew up the ships.

The manga actually stated that it was off pure instinct. He followed the magic power and destroyed what he sensed was his weakness. But he has no awareness of incoming attacks from random wizards or anything else.



And I'm pretty sure Erza was giving it her best against Ajeel. Why would she hold back when she is one step away from dying?

Thats still double disadvantaged. And fighting without senses. I dono. Other people on koyoka tier will lose quite easily if they dont have the same hax as her.

Laxus didnt use his mp to make thunder palace. Atleast not that very day
He only exchanged one two blows with erza and mystogan. Stalmated both.
And he lost at the.end

It is a major disadvantaged, because you are worn out and injured.

Unfortunately the demon wasnt even out. Still got the last shot in. So not an instant kill either

Ah! So you do ranked irene according to her performance. Caught you
Why are you not doing the same for wahl. He couldnt even take out a dieing Laxus. How weak must he be? Why are you even ranking him as a springgan tier

Other than wendy out enchanting her couple of times. Irene performance was pretty good. And again deenchanting has nothing to do with power.
Yes wendy humiliated irene, parent dragons, belserion and igneel
If only they had wendy back then they could easily have killed aconologia without a single ds


OS are fodders. Jura alone can take um. Only jellal was strong. Erza alone is alot stronger than jellal.

Yeah that hit which caused irene some pain was probably the third strongest hit in the entire arc.
By hype it was tiers above red lightening.
Erza pof slash plus ds > erza pof slash > deus sema >> wahl etherion > red lightening.
To negate a magical attack you must over power it.
Irene dues sema can easily be compared to wahl etherion. It would be just like rufus most strongest move compared to jura mt fuji.

Because she wasnt at the brink of death till the end. Even then she would probably endure the attack.
Again after sand world erza couldnt see his attacks nor him. She had no options after that. Again not because of power.

 

[Nemispelled]

Thats still double disadvantaged. And fighting without senses. I dono. Other people on koyoka tier will lose quite easily if they dont have the same hax as her.

Laxus didnt use his mp to make thunder palace. Atleast not that very day
He only exchanged one two blows with erza and mystogan. Stalmated both.
And he lost at the.end

It is a major disadvantaged, because you are worn out and injured.

Unfortunately the demon wasnt even out. Still got the last shot in. So not an instant kill either

Ah! So you do ranked irene according to her performance. Caught you
Why are you not doing the same for wahl. He couldnt even take out a dieing Laxus. How weak must he be? Why are you even ranking him as a springgan tier

Other than wendy out enchanting her couple of times. Irene performance was pretty good. And again deenchanting has nothing to do with power.
Yes wendy humiliated irene, parent dragons, belserion and igneel
If only they had wendy back then they could easily have killed aconologia without a single ds


OS are fodders. Jura alone can take um. Only jellal was strong. Erza alone is alot stronger than jellal.

Yeah that hit which caused irene some pain was probably the third strongest hit in the entire arc.
By hype it was tiers above red lightening.
Erza pof slash plus ds > erza pof slash > deus sema >> wahl etherion > red lightening.
To negate a magical attack you must over power it.
Irene dues sema can easily be compared to wahl etherion. It would be just like rufus most strongest move compared to jura mt fuji.

Because she wasnt at the brink of death till the end. Even then she would probably endure the attack.
Again after sand world erza couldnt see his attacks nor him. She had no options after that. Again not because of power.

If Erza suffered severe injuries or major damage to her body from being tortured and fighting Minerva, then I would agree with you that she was at a double disadvantage. But she fought each opponent throughout the course of a whole arc.

If we're really picking at "disadvantages", Laxus feats are actually better:

- Suffered from MBP sickness for 365+ days - while training
- Killed Wahl who is immune to lightning
- Killed Wahl while having MBP attacks (kind of like a heart attack)
- Tanked a hit from Human Acnologia (who oneshotted God Serena)


I could argue that Laxus tanked Acnologia with a "triple disadvantage". That's a lot better than beating Tartaros Kyouka with a "triple disadvantage".



As for Tempesta, he actually died by Laxus' attack. He stated that he could be "revived" by Hell's Core, so that's why he appeared again later in the arc.



In regards to Wahl, I've always said that his durability sucks and his intelligence is below average. Hence, why I call him a "mid-tier Spriggan". He can match lightning speed and has high firepower, which are decent feats.

I've always ranked Wahl far below a healthy Laxus because he lost even with 2 major advantages.

Similarly, I rank Irene on Base Wendy tier because that's what her performance showed me. Disenchanting a spell takes the same amount of power as enchanting one. So there is a direct correlation between Disenchanting and Power.


I'm not the one calling Wahl "top-tier". If you're willing to agree, we can both call Irene and Wahl "mid-tier Spriggans".

That means Irene is not the strongest Spriggan and August >>>> Irene.



August handled Jellal + Gildartz. Erza could be a lot stronger than Jellal, but she isn't stronger than Jellal + Gildartz.

Erza was knocking on death's door with Ajeel... not going full power would basically be accepting death.

 

[sharkai]

If Erza suffered severe injuries or major damage to her body from being tortured and fighting Minerva, then I would agree with you that she was at a double disadvantage. But she fought each opponent throughout the course of a whole arc.

If we're really picking at "disadvantages", Laxus feats are actually better:

- Suffered from MBP sickness for 365+ days - while training
- Killed Wahl who is immune to lightning
- Killed Wahl while having MBP attacks (kind of like a heart attack)
- Tanked a hit from Human Acnologia (who oneshotted God Serena)


I could argue that Laxus tanked Acnologia with a "triple disadvantage". That's a lot better than beating Tartaros Kyouka with a "triple disadvantage".



As for Tempesta, he actually died by Laxus' attack. He stated that he could be "revived" by Hell's Core, so that's why he appeared again later in the arc.



In regards to Wahl, I've always said that his durability sucks and his intelligence is below average. Hence, why I call him a "mid-tier Spriggan". He can match lightning speed and has high firepower, which are decent feats.

I've always ranked Wahl far below a healthy Laxus because he lost even with 2 major advantages.

Similarly, I rank Irene on Base Wendy tier because that's what her performance showed me. Disenchanting a spell takes the same amount of power as enchanting one. So there is a direct correlation between Disenchanting and Power.


I'm not the one calling Wahl "top-tier". If you're willing to agree, we can both call Irene and Wahl "mid-tier Spriggans".

That means Irene is not the strongest Spriggan and August >>>> Irene.



August handled Jellal + Gildartz. Erza could be a lot stronger than Jellal, but she isn't stronger than Jellal + Gildartz.

Erza was knocking on death's door with Ajeel... not going full power would basically be accepting death.

Wahl being immune to lightening is his magic. No difference than koyoka sensation curse.
Dont know mbp effect other than free hits he got. Wahl also gave him power in between
So laxus had one disadvantaged compared to two of erza.

Human acono wasnt trying to kill laxus so no point comparing the two events.

Laxus tanked nothing. And he was less disadvantaged than cobra, rouge and sting.

Tempesta died because he did his last move. Which was to blow himself up. Laxus attack did not even knock him out.

No no
Wahl speed attack power also sucks.
Since he couldnt even take out a laxus who was basically on death door. He coildnt even out speed dieing laxus

Why is wahl and irene mid tier
Human irene fought her counter and a person who is alot stronger than laxus.
Wahl fought a dieing laxus

Basically you are argueing like this
Laxus is stronger than erza
Thus (alot of reasons here)
Laxus is stronger than erza

By equating wahl with irene. You need nothing else
Because that sentence already mean
Dieing laxus > erza plus wendy.

Wahl is a mid tier like ajeel
I along with mishma claims that irene is top tier
Your argument does not work here because you will never accept this for gmg arc. That i am not claiming rufus is top tier. So lets agree on gmg jura and gmg rufus being about equal. It just doesnt work like this
Its
dragon irene > red form august > irene > august >>> ajeel = wahl
Dragon irene would low diff gildart plus jellal. Something that august cant do

No we know nothing of enchantment or deenchantment. So no power was used here. It didnt even take wendy any effort to do this.

She was only in trouble at the very end. When ajeel grabed her and dehydrading her. Erza only had trouble after sand world which exploited her weakness. Before that ajeel was in trouble
And no point before she was in danger.

Now tell me
Are we ranking according to performance
Then we can say irene is a mid tier springgan. (Wendy deenchant somehow, remember even old ultear can counter dimeria time stop)
And wahl is on that tier where a springgan can one shot him causally (even dieing person is too much for this guy, can he even beat levy)
Or by hype
In which case
(August = irene >>> ajeel = wahl)

 

[Arjuna]

I will say Erza may pull up a victory.Her current feats are above Laxus,and Laxus defeated a Spriggan like Wahl who can't even kill Carrot girl.

Add to that Erza has monstrous stamina.

 

[Demon Hunter]

@sharkai pre skip Laxus beats pre skip Erza mid diff.

post skip Erza beats post skip Laxus low diff.

I cannot believe how low has Laxus fallen @~Charging Lightning~ @Laxus pwns natsu @Laxus pwns natsu @Laxus

let's mourn together

 

[sharkai]

@sharkai pre skip Laxus beats pre skip Erza mid diff.

post skip Erza beats post skip Laxus low diff.

I cannot believe how low has Laxus fallen @~Charging Lightning~@Laxus pwns natsu@Laxus pwns natsu@Laxus

let's mourn together

Lol. Maybe pof erza might beat laxus low diff

Hahaha. He hasnt fallen. He is still around the same place
Only natsu openly surpassed him. Gray might have. Erza was always around him.

But i think it was always high diff
To me low diff mean around one shot or with complete ease.
Ff arc laxus can mid diff ff arc natsu. Not low diff
Thus ff arc laxus might be able to high diff ff arc erza. Or erza might high diff laxus in ff arc. Mishma portrayed them around each other. Erza hype extended to all the way to zero with jellal saying she might have a chance. She was wizard saint tier from the beginning. So no way in hell laxus could mid diff erza. Even jose took time taking out already wrecked erza.

Gildart in that time would be the only one who could mid diff erza or laxus
And erza and laxus could both mid diff natsu

Same for gmg
Gmg Laxus > = < gmg erza. Anyone can only win high diff
One boss tier (jura) should be around two top tier (one after the other kagura and minerva)

I think now erza will win high diff against laxus. Even though erza has way better feats then anyone but natsu. I am pretty sure people (manga people) will not say erza or natsu is the strongest even.now

 

[Demon Hunter]

@sharkai Nah FF Laxus low diffs FF Natsu.

He could have killed him with Raging Bolt or after he hit him with a roar (you know, pound him to death).

 

[sharkai]

@sharkai Nah FF Laxus low diffs FF Natsu.

He could have killed him with Raging Bolt or after he hit him with a roar (you know, pound him to death).

Not really
In ff arc
Natsu > gajeel

Laxus put gajeel out of commission with lightening roar and hevean helbert. His two strongest move of that time skip.

Raging bolt wont finish likes of natsu.

So that mid diff.
Natsu alone can keep laxus busy for a while.

And the gap between natsu and erza was huge and was pointed out many times. And gap between laxus and erza wasnt even mentioned.

 

[LaGOAT]

Not really
In ff arc
Natsu > gajeel

Laxus put gajeel out of commission with lightening roar and hevean helbert. His two strongest move of that time skip.

Raging bolt wont finish likes of natsu.

So that mid diff.
Natsu alone can keep laxus busy for a while.

And the gap between natsu and erza was huge and was pointed out many times. And gap between laxus and erza wasnt even mentioned.

It was erza was shocked when laxus fought hades and when gray said it again after the 7 years time skip

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2017 ---

@sharkai pre skip Laxus beats pre skip Erza mid diff.

post skip Erza beats post skip Laxus low diff.

I cannot believe how low has Laxus fallen @~Charging Lightning~ @Laxus pwns natsu @Laxus pwns natsu @Laxus

let's mourn together

Bro it whatever idc anymore

 

[sharkai]

It was erza was shocked when laxus fought hades and when gray said it again after the 7 years time skip

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2017 ---

Bro it whatever idc anymore

Erza said that after she was saw laxus tank formula 25. Which he did not. So her comment isnt suprising.
Gray also commented that erza was probably already using SO.
And of course we know erza could compete in gmg without any powerup

 

[LaGOAT]

Erza said that after she was saw laxus tank formula 25. Which he did not. So her comment isnt suprising.
Gray also commented that erza was probably already using SO.
And of course we know erza could compete in gmg without any powerup

Laxus gave up knowing he can't beat hades 2. No was shocked how laxus can hold his own while she couldn't 3. Gray said that laxus and gildartz are monster that can compete 4. Erza said natsu is on her lvl