Fantasy Luffy vs Marco

[XXGenesis]

I don't see Luffy getting stomped. But Marco should win with Mid Difficulty. Luffy's Gear 4th vs Cracker & brief clash with BM; isn't something I think Marco will just brush off. But his DF ability is basically recovery, not to mention he has Haki which can damage the Admirals. & he was a Yonkou's 1st mate, his bounty has to be 1B as commonly seen with Yonkou commanders....

I Say Luffy isn't so far off. But he can't win yet.

 

[kkck]

I don't see Luffy getting stomped. But Marco should win with Mid Difficulty. Luffy's Gear 4th vs Cracker & brief clash with BM; isn't something I think Marco will just brush off. But his DF ability is basically recovery, not to mention he has Haki which can damage the Admirals. & he was a Yonkou's 1st mate, his bounty has to be 1B as commonly seen with Yonkou commanders....

I Say Luffy isn't so far off. But he can't win yet.

That is a weird example considering both of those characters basically brushed off luffy. Luffy could not get past cracker's army, how is luffy going to beat someone whose standing and power is the world is higher than cracker's? Even cracker took all the help luffy could get along with an improbable sequence of events.... And big mom basically laughed off a combined gear 3 and diable jambe along with a gear 4 punch. The only point in luffy's favor there is that he was exhausted when he used gear 4. Still, ultimately the main issue luffy has here is that marco literally doesn't have to do anything to win this fight. He would literally just stand there, take a beating and wait for gear 4 to run out. Even if he doesn't know he can just wait it out, he would still come out on top, low difficulty tops. Luffy couldn't beat doflamingo who was merely able to stitch himself up, he is not defeating someone that strong who can literally regenerate himself. Luffy not being far off would make him far more powerful than he has shown so far.

 

[XXGenesis]

Excuse me, I meant low-difficulty win. Not mid. You gotta understand yes Marco can heal, but Haki can still hurt him in pheonix mode. I doubt he'll be blocking Gear 4 attacks just like BM did. I mention the BM lash cause it was a 1 vs 1 clash...All Luffy did was comically lose stamina(which doesn't make sense)

 

[kkck]

Excuse me, I meant low-difficulty win. Not mid. You gotta understand yes Marco can heal, but Haki can still hurt him in pheonix mode. I doubt he'll be blocking Gear 4 attacks just like BM did. I mention the BM lash cause it was a 1 vs 1 clash...All Luffy did was comically lose stamina(which doesn't make sense)

Haki won't make a difference in regards to marco's healing. Haki doesn't work in a way in which marco's healing is in any form or context compromised. Marco is not a logia, he is not intangible. So as far as taking damage goes, his situation is literally the same as with any other person around. The only difference is that he instantly heals that damage. As for marco blocking gear 4 attacks, I would argue he could. Perhaps not quite like big mom but he won't be rag dolled like doflamingo was. He is someone that could go toe to toe and even repel admirals, you think gear 4 luffy, a guy who can't even beat freaking doflamingo after ragdolling him for an hour, will hold out against marco? Cracker, someone whose position is beneath marco, could easily injure gear 4 luffy. The absolute worst case scenario for marco in that regard is at least that, being capable of easily injuring gear 4 luffy. With astounding physical strength and haki even superior to that of cracker. With that much power even marco's generic punches should actually be able to injure luffy. Of course, this is a fair bit of speculation but I really don't expect marco to be outdone in any department (except army creation) by cracker. Which is not to say marco would have an easy time with cracker either, he would put up more of a fight than luffy could IMO.

 

[XXGenesis]

Haki plays a big part in fights nowadays. If you don't use Armanet haki you can't touch Marco. He's a special zoan, the Pheonix is sort of intangible. Yea Marco may be able to heal due to his DF, but I'm sure that takes stamina & endurance each time he heals.

Luffy's current Maxium strentght is just under a Yonkou Commander. As for Donflamingo I think his fight with Luffy goes to how just how strong the dude was, especially his crew. Doffy was a Small size big player.

 

[kkck]

Haki plays a big part in fights nowadays. If you don't use Armanet haki you can't touch Marco. He's a special zoan, the Pheonix is sort of intangible. Yea Marco may be able to heal due to his DF, but I'm sure that takes stamina & endurance each time he heals.

Luffy's current Maxium strentght is just under a Yonkou Commander. As for Donflamingo I think his fight with Luffy goes to how just how strong the dude was, especially his crew. Doffy was a Small size big player.

Marco is in no conceivable form or context intangible, that is not how his fruit works. Oda has already explained that in the SBS. Marco's fruit, unlike a logia, works by constantly -though with a limit- regenerating his wounds. So all those times we saw marco take hits and they seemingly going through him what we were seeing him was him taking actual damage and instantly healing. This is very different from a logia since logia actually do not get injured from normal attacks and very much get injured from haki attacks. Marco could take a haki hit and he would heal it just the same as a non haki hit because he is tangible to begin with.

 

[XXGenesis]

Looking over the Paramount War & recent War mentioned between WB Pirates vs BB Pirates. Marco would defeat Luffy rather easily. I believe he's stronger than cracker & Doffy

My point about his DF ability is that when he uses his Blue Flames or utilizes his Blue Pheonix Form. He is Logia esque. In that form he can't be damaged similar to a logia & just regenerates, even more so however seeing as there's no counter element to his Regenerative Blue Flames.

The only way to damage him in this form, even if he can regenerate the damage, is to use Haki...Haki hinders the ability of DF powers, as mentioned time & time again. I believe Garp was the one to hit Marco in his Pheonix Form using Haki causing him damage. In order for Marco to recover from said damage he has to use blue flames...

 

[LaGOAT]

Luffy is definitely yonko commander lvl. But he will lose to Marco like I said mid high to high low diff. Also @kkck making it sound like Marco is nearly unbeatable because he has the power to regenerate.

 

[kkck]

Luffy is definitely yonko commander lvl. But he will lose to Marco like I said mid high to high low diff. Also @kkck making it sound like Marco is nearly unbeatable because he has the power to regenerate.

Well, that is essentially the case. Marco doesn't really have to do crap, he just has to stand there and wait for gear 4 to be over. Of course, he won't know that but it won't make a difference because gear 4 will run it's curse regardless. And if marco does fight gear 4 luffy head on, it might not even last as much as it did against doflamingo. Against doflamingo luffy could fight with barely any resistance from the guy... He essentially beat him non stop for an hour straight. If marco has greater physical capacity than gear 4 has shown so far then luffy has zero chance of even being a challenge here.

Defeating marco is about outlasting him. As in, dealing so much damage that his regeneration runs out. Oda said his regeneration wasn't infinite which pretty much suggests it takes up his stamina. Luffy couldn't win a battle of attrition against freaking doflamingo whose healing amounted to half assed stitching. How can he outlast marco's regeneration? The alternative would be something like restraining marco but that is not available to luffy. If marco was fighting say, akainu, akainu could impale marco with a lava fist and if he can keep marco like that the constant burning would eventually eat away of marco's stamina for instance.

 

[LaGOAT]

Well, that is essentially the case. Marco doesn't really have to do crap, he just has to stand there and wait for gear 4 to be over. Of course, he won't know that but it won't make a difference because gear 4 will run it's curse regardless. And if marco does fight gear 4 luffy head on, it might not even last as much as it did against doflamingo. Against doflamingo luffy could fight with barely any resistance from the guy... He essentially beat him non stop for an hour straight. If marco has greater physical capacity than gear 4 has shown so far then luffy has zero chance of even being a challenge here.

Defeating marco is about outlasting him. As in, dealing so much damage that his regeneration runs out. Oda said his regeneration wasn't infinite which pretty much suggests it takes up his stamina. Luffy couldn't win a battle of attrition against freaking doflamingo whose healing amounted to half assed stitching. How can he outlast marco's regeneration? The alternative would be something like restraining marco but that is not available to luffy. If marco was fighting say, akainu, akainu could impale marco with a lava fist and if he can keep marco like that the constant burning would eventually eat away of marco's stamina for instance.

ya by ur logic ur sayin marco>shanks because he has the power to regenerate plus we lack feats from shanks. my point that yes marco wins but it isnt a low diff and yes luffy is yonko lvl

 

[kkck]

ya by ur logic ur sayin marco>shanks because he has the power to regenerate plus we lack feats from shanks. my point that yes marco wins but it isnt a low diff and yes luffy is yonko lvl

I am not saying anything of the sort. And the notion that luffy is yonko level currently is at it's best laughable. How can luffy beat marco, let alone vaguely compare to an actual yonko, when he can't beat a half dead doflamingo or the weakest of the 3 sweet commanders on his own?

 

[LaGOAT]

I am not saying anything of the sort. And the notion that luffy is yonko level currently is at it's best laughable. How can luffy beat marco, let alone vaguely compare to an actual yonko, when he can't beat a half dead doflamingo or the weakest of the 3 sweet commanders on his own?

Sorry my bad I meant he is definitely yonko commander lvl

 

[kkck]

Sorry my bad I meant he is definitely yonko commander lvl

Lol, ok, but I would argue that is at best less laughable. We have seen how luffy performs against cracker or doflamingo.... For luffy to be at the level you suggest he should be able to at the very least be able to go toe to toe with them without outside help. As in, no one to help luffy land punches, no one to slash the enemy's organs, no one to provide luffy with any support in any form or context. Luffy is simply not there yet and in this case we are talking about potentially the strongest of all yonko commanders.

 

[LaGOAT]

Lol, ok, but I would argue that is at best less laughable. We have seen how luffy performs against cracker or doflamingo.... For luffy to be at the level you suggest he should be able to at the very least be able to go toe to toe with them without outside help. As in, no one to help luffy land punches, no one to slash the enemy's organs, no one to provide luffy with any support in any form or context. Luffy is simply not there yet and in this case we are talking about potentially the strongest of all yonko commanders.

So ur saying current luffy can't beat ace or vista? U can be in the same tier but lose to certain commanders I mean being on a same tier doesn't mean u have to be on the same equal in strength. Example katakuri>>>>Cracker since he can his observation Haki is off the charts plus he has a logia eqsue ability to oneshot cracker with his low durability. I'm saying that luffy is yonko commander lvl but he isn't stronger than every commander.

 

[kkck]

So ur saying current luffy can't beat ace or vista? U can be in the same tier but lose to certain commanders I mean being on a same tier doesn't mean u have to be on the same equal in strength. Example katakuri>>>>Cracker since he can his observation Haki is off the charts plus he has a logia eqsue ability to oneshot cracker with his low durability. I'm saying that luffy is yonko commander lvl but he isn't stronger than every commander.

In this context I mean the top officers of any given yonko crew, not literally any commander. So in WB's crew it would be marco, jozu and vista, in big mom's crew it would be the sweet commanders, in kaido's crew it would be the 3 calamities.... Each yonko seems to have around a dozen main officers that act as their main crew. The top 3 among those people are essentially admiral deterrents... Hence what we saw with marco and jozu through the war. That said, I don't think luffy would currently be able to beat vista, the guy managed to hold his ground against fucking mihawk... And even cracker could cut gear 4 luffy like butter. That said, I do think luffy could beat ace. Katakuri would of course defeat cracker however I wouldn't expect him to have an easy fight.

 

[LaGOAT]

In this context I mean the top officers of any given yonko crew, not literally any commander. So in WB's crew it would be marco, jozu and vista, in big mom's crew it would be the sweet commanders, in kaido's crew it would be the 3 calamities.... Each yonko seems to have around a dozen main officers that act as their main crew. The top 3 among those people are essentially admiral deterrents... Hence what we saw with marco and jozu through the war. That said, I don't think luffy would currently be able to beat vista, the guy managed to hold his ground against fucking mihawk... And even cracker could cut gear 4 luffy like butter. That said, I do think luffy could beat ace. Katakuri would of course defeat cracker however I wouldn't expect him to have an easy fight.

ok I still don't understand ur logic. current luffy can give Adrimal a decent fight just like Marco and jozu. Luffy is top 3 commander in any yonko crew. Luffy can hold his ground with Mihawk too so I don't understand ur point. Yonko commanders can give an admiral a fight but they are not around admiral lvl that includes Marco and katakuri. Ace a top 3 commander too so again what ur point? My point is luffy is yonko commander lvl

 

[kkck]

ok I still don't understand ur logic. current luffy can give Adrimal a decent fight just like Marco and jozu. Luffy is top 3 commander in any yonko crew. Luffy can hold his ground with Mihawk too so I don't understand ur point. Yonko commanders can give an admiral a fight but they are not around admiral lvl that includes Marco and katakuri. Ace a top 3 commander too so again what ur point? My point is luffy is yonko commander lvl

I don't agree with any of that. So far in the new world luffy's 2 greatest accomplishments are defeating doflamingo and cracker. And defeating cracker, at least on hype alone, is the greater accomplishment between the two. And both fights suggest luffy is far from the level of either. Luffy did not win either fight on his own, he won them because of the spectacular support he had. Have luffy fight doflamingo without law or cracker without nami and the bulk of what he did against them is impossible. The victories luffy had over either of them were paper thing and that with all the support luffy could get. It took two runs of gear 4 to beat doflamingo and that was after law had ripped doflamingo's insides to shreds. Remove that and luffy would have definitely died in dressrosa. Against cracker luffy managed to hold his ground because nami made the cracker army useless. Which enabled luffy to eat it and manage his gear 4 balloon thing. For the suggestion that luffy is comparable to a yonko's top 3 commanders, let alone an admiral, to be reasonable luffy would have to be capable of defeating doflamingo or cracker without a speck of help. As in, without law to open use doflamingo's insides, without an army to keep doflamingo at bay while luffy recovers from gear 4 overuse and without nami to turn cracker's army into edible mush. And what makes you think luffy can hold his ground against mihawk? Mihawk is an end of manga character for zoro to beat, there is no way luffy right now has a chance against him. The most luffy could do against him is not die outright however if luffy fights him he is 100% dead.

Ultimately the main issue luffy has here is that marco is just a bad match up. Marco is able to instantly regenerate any damage he takes. He can't do it infinitely however that means that to defeat marco you have to either restrain him somehow or cause so much damage that he can't continue regenerating. Luffy has no means of restraining marco which means his only option is a battle of attrition. Which would be hard enough even if luffy could rag doll marco the same way as doflamingo. Which in itself is a stretch. When luffy uses gear 4 he has a time limit to win fights. Once his stamina and haki give out he is dead. If luffy couldn't beat a half stitched up doflamingo then he certainly has 0% chance against someone stronger than doflamingo who on top of everything heals from every blow he takes. Battles of attrition are not in luffy's benefit and marco is someone who can attrition the shit out of a fight.

 

[LaGOAT]

I don't agree with any of that. So far in the new world luffy's 2 greatest accomplishments are defeating doflamingo and cracker. And defeating cracker, at least on hype alone, is the greater accomplishment between the two. And both fights suggest luffy is far from the level of either. Luffy did not win either fight on his own, he won them because of the spectacular support he had. Have luffy fight doflamingo without law or cracker without nami and the bulk of what he did against them is impossible. The victories luffy had over either of them were paper thing and that with all the support luffy could get. It took two runs of gear 4 to beat doflamingo and that was after law had ripped doflamingo's insides to shreds. Remove that and luffy would have definitely died in dressrosa. Against cracker luffy managed to hold his ground because nami made the cracker army useless. Which enabled luffy to eat it and manage his gear 4 balloon thing. For the suggestion that luffy is comparable to a yonko's top 3 commanders, let alone an admiral, to be reasonable luffy would have to be capable of defeating doflamingo or cracker without a speck of help. As in, without law to open use doflamingo's insides, without an army to keep doflamingo at bay while luffy recovers from gear 4 overuse and without nami to turn cracker's army into edible mush. And what makes you think luffy can hold his ground against mihawk? Mihawk is an end of manga character for zoro to beat, there is no way luffy right now has a chance against him. The most luffy could do against him is not die outright however if luffy fights him he is 100% dead.

Ultimately the main issue luffy has here is that marco is just a bad match up. Marco is able to instantly regenerate any damage he takes. He can't do it infinitely however that means that to defeat marco you have to either restrain him somehow or cause so much damage that he can't continue regenerating. Luffy has no means of restraining marco which means his only option is a battle of attrition. Which would be hard enough even if luffy could rag doll marco the same way as doflamingo. Which in itself is a stretch. When luffy uses gear 4 he has a time limit to win fights. Once his stamina and haki give out he is dead. If luffy couldn't beat a half stitched up doflamingo then he certainly has 0% chance against someone stronger than doflamingo who on top of everything heals from every blow he takes. Battles of attrition are not in luffy's benefit and marco is someone who can attrition the shit out of a fight.

Ok so I agree with everything. I thought u was saying that luffy isn't yonko commander lvl. I'm not saying that luffy>cracker and dd I'm saying they're all on the same tier. no i don think luffy can beat Mihawk I'm saying he can hold his ground like vista can. But I do agree Marco wins but it isn't a low diff is all I'm saying. I mean If ur beating in a low diff that means ur definitely are not the same tier

 

[XXGenesis]

I Agree. Luffy is a low lv Yonkou Commander Lv. So is Donflamingo IMO, who had a ultimately stronger crew than Luffy's due to size & abilities. However King Kong Gun decimated Doffy's awakened God Strings.

Cracker is a weak commander IMO may be even be weaker than Vista simply stats wise; However it's Crackers's unlimited DF ability is what's makes him so formidable.

Marco, Katakuri, Jack all seem to be high lv Commanders, Worth of the 1B Bounty..*Marco aside. I still see G4 Luffy able to hurt them somewhat, especially King Kong Gun.

 

[LaGOAT]

I Agree. Luffy is a low lv Yonkou Commander Lv. So is Donflamingo IMO, who had a ultimately stronger crew than Luffy's due to size & abilities. However King Kong Gun decimated Doffy's awakened God Strings.

Cracker is a weak commander IMO may be even be weaker than Vista simply stats wise; However it's Crackers's unlimited DF ability is what's makes him so formidable.

Marco, Katakuri, Jack all seem to be high lv Commanders, Worth of the 1B Bounty..*Marco aside. I still see G4 Luffy able to hurt them somewhat, especially King Kong Gun.

So who is mid tier yonko commander lvl in ur imo?