Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[G_I_A]

Ouch...

It's possible that shueisha will do with jump+ the same they did with tonari no young jump putting Murata and One Punch Man to make it relevant (still not).

If Kishimoto can't save JUMP+ from its complete state of irrelevance nobody can.

 

[vampire killer]

I mean even Berserk have card game. What in japan dont have card game?

 

[G_I_A]

I mean even Berserk have card game. What in japan dont have card game?

Indeed:

 

[Mawara]

I've read several times in this thread(& in other threads & forums), how some people dont enjoy MHA as much as they did before and a few days ago someone mentioned how important an antagonist is for conflict in story(was different topic), and I think that is one problem of My Hero Academia at this point-
The lack of tension.
One of the oldest rules in stories is, that the hero must struggle. But ironically, at this point, it's the villains who are really struggling in My Hero Academia. The League of Villains still licking their wounds, they've lost one member and another one was heavily wounded, and with Twice we have a character, who is suffering extremely for several traguc reason.(not painting the members of the LoV as tragic persons, bc Dabi is a mass murderer & Shigaraki a psychopath, but Twice got a lot of screentime in this arc)-
And the heroes side currently? We have Deku's class, the other class, the Top 3 students of UA, we have the rival school and on top of this dozens pro-heroes.
Even if the count the Yakuza to the villain side, even they are in a weak state & trying to get to the top again.
I would say, that by sending the big bad All-For-One to prison Horikoshi actually hurt his manga after all. There is no real threats left, besides Shigaraki's group and they're not in the best state at the moment. Horikoshi should've established other villains or even villain organisations to keep tension high. Of course, I know, that the League of Villains will become a greater threat later on and we just see how they grow to power, but in One Piece we have the rise of Blackbeard AND the threat of the other Yonkou(edit: and the Marines, complettely forgot about them) in the background(and yeah, I know,it's not a perfect example).
And I know, it makes sense, why this is, because we were in a golden era of heroes thanks to All Might, and having other villains for the sake of having them, is not the best solution, but at the same time, having only a few villains, who are actually struggling vs A DAMN LOT OF HEROES isnt that interesting right now.

It's just one reason, why I think, people arent that happy with MHA at this point(not THE reason), and I'm aware that we are in an arc, which could change things a lot(if Horikoshi dares to change the Status Quo), but for me it's an important aspect that the heroes must struggle inevery stories, and especially in Shonen this can be done by having strong & threatening villains.

 

[Ecchi Boy]

other new manga are made by fans favorite like Ogino Jun

Please don't play with my heart is it true?

 

[jagman1x3]

Please don't play with my heart is it true?

He's serializing his Young Jump oneshot from last year.

 

[ShenGao]

I've read several times in this thread(& in other threads & forums), how some people dont enjoy MHA as much as they did before and a few days ago someone mentioned how important an antagonist is for conflict in story(was different topic), and I think that is one problem of My Hero Academia at this point-
The lack of tension.
One of the oldest rules in stories is, that the hero must struggle. But ironically, at this point, it's the villains who are really struggling in My Hero Academia. The League of Villains still licking their wounds, they've lost one member and another one was heavily wounded, and with Twice we have a character, who is suffering extremely for several traguc reason.(not painting the members of the LoV as tragic persons, bc Dabi is a mass murderer & Shigaraki a psychopath, but Twice got a lot of screentime in this arc)-
And the heroes side currently? We have Deku's class, the other class, the Top 3 students of UA, we have the rival school and on top of this dozens pro-heroes.
Even if the count the Yakuza to the villain side, even they are in a weak state & trying to get to the top again.
I would say, that by sending the big bad All-For-One to prison Horikoshi actually hurt his manga after all. There is no real threats left, besides Shigaraki's group and they're not in the best state at the moment. Horikoshi should've established other villains or even villain organisations to keep tension high. Of course, I know, that the League of Villains will become a greater threat later on and we just see how they grow to power, but in One Piece we have the rise of Blackbeard AND the threat of the other Yonkou in the background(and yeah, I know,it's not a perfect example).
And I know, it makes sense, why this is, because we were in a golden era of heroes thanks to All Might, and having other villains for the sake of having them, is not the best solution, but at the same time, having only a few villains, who are actually struggling vs A DAMN LOT OF HEROES isnt that interesting right now.

It's just one reason, why I think, people arent that happy with MHA at this point(not THE reason), and I'm aware that we are in an arc, which could change things a lot(if Horikoshi dares to change the Status Quo), but for me it's an important aspect that the heroes must struggle inevery stories, and especially in Shonen this can be done by having strong & threatening villains.

The comparison to One Piece with Blackbeard and the Yonkou is a bad one. When OP was only 150 chapters long there were no Blackbeard or Yonkou, not even the Admirals of the Marine were a threat. The villains only existed for one island and then they were gone. At best there were Buggy and Smoker, but that's it.

As for the part with Hero Academia: The heroes are struggling. From 2 dozen pro heroes in the current mission more than half of them can't deal with no-name underlings, almost nobody likes the current No.1 hero Endeavor, the villains started to form groups and attack the heroes together, some villain groups got quirk erasing bullets and quirk boosting drugs on their hands, the hero design companies are selling their equipment on the blackmarket to earn extra money.
Just because Deku and his friends aren't struggling (which some of them are with Bakugou and Todoroki failing to get their license or Kirishima almost dying to protect Fat Gum) it doesn't mean the heroes aren't struggling.

 

[razerxs]

snip

You made some good points and I agree that the external conflicts in MHA are a bit lackluster. But that's not really a recent thing. From the start, the Villains Alliance has been a gang of newbies and nobodies and the pro heroes could easily overwhelm them. Plus, this is a school series, the stakes for most arcs were pretty low. What mattered was that they were personal.

MHA mines most of drama from Deku's internal conflicts: does he deserve his new powers (tournament arc), and is he strong enough to be a hero (villain arcs). A lot of Deku's classmates share the same concerns about being weak or inexperienced. Early on, the villains big mission statement (heroes don't deserve to heroes) responded to the conflict very directly and that's what made them interesting. The Hassaikai and Nighteye don't have stances on this at all and it makes them feel detached from the main story.

 

[Mammo]

V-Jump Souten no Sora X Dragon Quest 11 crossover

still hoping for a new DQ manga by Dragon Garow Lee

 

[Newkerzy]

I've read several times in this thread(& in other threads & forums), how some people dont enjoy MHA as much as they did before and a few days ago someone mentioned how important an antagonist is for conflict in story(was different topic), and I think that is one problem of My Hero Academia at this point-
The lack of tension.
One of the oldest rules in stories is, that the hero must struggle. But ironically, at this point, it's the villains who are really struggling in My Hero Academia. The League of Villains still licking their wounds, they've lost one member and another one was heavily wounded, and with Twice we have a character, who is suffering extremely for several traguc reason.(not painting the members of the LoV as tragic persons, bc Dabi is a mass murderer & Shigaraki a psychopath, but Twice got a lot of screentime in this arc)-
And the heroes side currently? We have Deku's class, the other class, the Top 3 students of UA, we have the rival school and on top of this dozens pro-heroes.
Even if the count the Yakuza to the villain side, even they are in a weak state & trying to get to the top again.
I would say, that by sending the big bad All-For-One to prison Horikoshi actually hurt his manga after all. There is no real threats left, besides Shigaraki's group and they're not in the best state at the moment. Horikoshi should've established other villains or even villain organisations to keep tension high. Of course, I know, that the League of Villains will become a greater threat later on and we just see how they grow to power, but in One Piece we have the rise of Blackbeard AND the threat of the other Yonkou(edit: and the Marines, complettely forgot about them) in the background(and yeah, I know,it's not a perfect example).
And I know, it makes sense, why this is, because we were in a golden era of heroes thanks to All Might, and having other villains for the sake of having them, is not the best solution, but at the same time, having only a few villains, who are actually struggling vs A DAMN LOT OF HEROES isnt that interesting right now.

It's just one reason, why I think, people arent that happy with MHA at this point(not THE reason), and I'm aware that we are in an arc, which could change things a lot(if Horikoshi dares to change the Status Quo), but for me it's an important aspect that the heroes must struggle inevery stories, and especially in Shonen this can be done by having strong & threatening villains.

As it is right now, MHA is doing just fine story-wise. There's nothing glaringly wrong about the current arc, either. But I do see the concern regarding the current arcs for some fans. There are two reasons for this: After the amazing Kamino Ward arc, it would be a difficult act to follow up quality-wise, that much is obvious.

Another reason would be that the characters we've gotten attached to doesn't feel like they're in direct threat of danger. The one in danger is a new character that has only been introduced recently, so there are some fans who have yet to establish a form of attachment towards the character. Although she does have a lot of fans who really want her out of the baddie's clutches for very, very obvious reasons.

You made some good points and I agree that the external conflicts in MHA are a bit lackluster. But that's not really a recent thing. From the start, the Villains Alliance has been a gang of newbies and nobodies and the pro heroes could easily overwhelm them. Plus, this is a school series, the stakes for most arcs were pretty low. What mattered was that they were personal.

MHA mines most of drama from Deku's internal conflicts: does he deserve his new powers (tournament arc), and is he strong enough to be a hero (villain arcs). A lot of Deku's classmates share the same concerns about being weak or inexperienced. Early on, the villains big mission statement (heroes don't deserve to heroes) responded to the conflict very directly and that's what made them interesting. The Hassaikai and Nighteye don't have stances on this at all and it makes them feel detached from the main story.

Another solid point. But that's not to say this arc is meaningless. This arc seems to be aiming to give both the VA and the heroes character development. I had a hard time getting into Shigaraki before people pointed out how, just like Deku, he is also growing as well. And that is something I've come to appreciate because I don't think I've seen anyone write a villain this way.

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

Yeah I love MHA but it's not very good at building tension during big conflicts like this. Even now when they're supposedly struggling things feel like they're working out way too nicely for the heroes.

Highlights have always been seeing the students develop & seeing how the manga's world functions.

 

[Leoat12]

from his interview for Boruto the movie opening

Kishimoto is in the top 3 of greatest mangakas in Jump and history in sales, if he says that he wants 10 pages monthly they will do that. Boruto is already a huge exception, being monthly so Kishimoto himself will come back and they are not going to put it in Jump and print money?
Togashi already proved that there is no deadline restriction at all when you are successful enough.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2017 ---

The comparison to One Piece with Blackbeard and the Yonkou is a bad one. When OP was only 150 chapters long there were no Blackbeard or Yonkou, not even the Admirals of the Marine were a threat. The villains only existed for one island and then they were gone. At best there were Buggy and Smoker, but that's it.

As for the part with Hero Academia: The heroes are struggling. From 2 dozen pro heroes in the current mission more than half of them can't deal with no-name underlings, almost nobody likes the current No.1 hero Endeavor, the villains started to form groups and attack the heroes together, some villain groups got quirk erasing bullets and quirk boosting drugs on their hands, the hero design companies are selling their equipment on the blackmarket to earn extra money.
Just because Deku and his friends aren't struggling (which some of them are with Bakugou and Todoroki failing to get their license or Kirishima almost dying to protect Fat Gum) it doesn't mean the heroes aren't struggling.

Are you not forgetting some big names in the beginning of One Piece like Kuro, Krieg and Arlong? The crew struggled a lot in the beginning, the tension was palpable, principally in Arlong Park. Villains become stronger as the heroes become stronger and Oda does it perfectly. Kuro, Krige and Arlong wouldn't be a big deal right now, but they were at that time and the tension was high.

My Hero Academia on the other hand... It is incapable to make feel any threat, besides Kirishima story and struggles this arc has been pretty boring and I thought the villain this time was good, he is intelligent and not a Shigaraki, but he is just fleeing and I haven't heard of him for a couple of chapters now. The heroes are completely fine, they even felt confident enough to bring students with them. They left students alone with a horde of villains and guess what? He won! He fucking won! It seems like they are more than ready to be professionals with these weakling villains, none of them are taken hostage which would be obvious if you are villains with a minimum of power and see the heroes underestimating you. The heroes are most of the time just running towards their goal and their biggest problem is the walls.

The students has been given missions that are supposedly too hard for them, but they are going too well, too well...

 

[Nakura]

We likely won't see an arc as big as Kamino for a long, long time. I'm fine with it, as long as the arcs between then and now are interesting. It didn't help though that the arc that directly followed Kamino was, I mean, not great.

In terms of the current tension, I'll agree that the current arc has been going a bit too well for the heroes. However, I will reserve my judgement until the arc is over.

What I will say, is that I actually like the way Shigaraki is written. He's terrible at his job, but that's the point. I've been enjoying the recent chapters a lot because we get to focus on the League's characterisation, the bonds they have been forming, and the growth of Shigaraki. Shigaraki is like the second MC in my mind. Having him and Izuku grow alongside each other makes me super excited for the future. Sense of danger post-Kamino aside, the character writing is my favourite part of MHA.

 

[Newkerzy]

We likely won't see an arc as big as Kamino for a long, long time. I'm fine with it, as long as the arcs between then and now are interesting. It didn't help though that the arc that directly followed Kamino was, I mean, not great.

In terms of the current tension, I'll agree that the current arc has been going a bit too well for the heroes. However, I will reserve my judgement until the arc is over.

What I will say, is that I actually like the way Shigaraki is written. He's terrible at his job, but that's the point. I've been enjoying the recent chapters a lot because we get to focus on the League's characterisation, the bonds they have been forming, and the growth of Shigaraki. Sense of danger post-Kamino aside, the character writing is my favourite part of MHA.

I believe the tone of the arc that followed Kamino was intentional. After something like that, I think a more light-hearted arc was justified. Sure, it might not have been very exciting, but it was essential to move the plot forward. It also served to expand the world of MHA, something that people have criticized. And besides, the cliffhanger at the end of the arc made up for it IMO.

 

[G_I_A]

I dropped MHA entirely... Will wait to watch on anime... To me Horikoshi is going downhill exactly like he did with his previous works. I hope he goes back to mha origins though...

 

[Nakura]

I believe the tone of the arc that followed Kamino was intentional. After something like that, I think a more light-hearted arc was justified. Sure, it might not have been very exciting, but it was essential to move the plot forward. It also served to expand the world of MHA, something that people have criticized. And besides, the cliffhanger at the end of the arc made up for it IMO.

Nah, I'm fine with it being pretty calm in tone. I just simply didn't enjoy it all that much. I won't get into it since this isn't the right place for it. I've been enjoying everything afterwards though. I mean, the chapter directly after the end of that arc, chapter 115, is one of my favourites in the entire series.

 

[Doughboy]

Won't dive too deep cause everyone said everything already but tension is dependant on how you look at the situation. It's a rescue operation so really they're trying get in and out so I can definitely understand the lack of it but I'll wait till the arc is over. Heroes are taking L's but not as many as you would want. Best thing of the arc to me is the character development, flat out. Kirishima, Suneater, Twice, Toga, Shigaraki... the backstories and coinciding flashbacks regarding them have been on the level of Todoroki's, maybe even better. I'm finding the side characters and villains to be more interesting than the mains in this arc.

 

[xAsum0x]

I think the current MHA arc is the 2nd best objectively. Great character development and fights, Overhauls great as well and very mysterious. Also the pacing is finally not speed blitzing me however I'm pretty surprised this series is so controversial in this forum. It's not trash I think everyone can agree but it's not groundbreaking or spectacular either which I think the majority of us agree. It's just solid and charming. It's not something that deserves everyone's thoughts every week and whether or not it's failing in some aspects.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I've read several times in this thread(& in other threads & forums), how some people dont enjoy MHA as much as they did before and a few days ago someone mentioned how important an antagonist is for conflict in story(was different topic), and I think that is one problem of My Hero Academia at this point-

The same people who say they're not happy with the current state of the manga are the same people who say One Piece has not been good since Marineford or the same people who claim Neverland isn't good anymore since they left the plantation and it stopped being a cat and mouse game i.e. the loud minority.

The lack of tension.

Tension is such a dangerous word to use in regards to shounen manga because you can use it if you've just become bored with a story versus failing to keep interest (and objectively speaking given sales and ranks doesn't seem to be the case with this arc) I mean I constantly hear people say World Trigger has no tension because the characters are never in any actual danger and that the series focuses on strategies and tactical battles versus the powerup/transformation a minute of others yet I'm more enamored with it then I ever was with Bleach, Naruto and Dragonball despite all three being vastly more popular. In regards to MHA it feels like people jump into this with the wrong impressions of what kind of story Hori wants to tell and where his focus lie so when people say that "it lacks tension" all they're telling me is that they're reading it for the wrong reasons.

One of the oldest rules in stories is, that the hero must struggle.

This manga is entirely about the struggles of cast, they don't always win, get what they want and there's actually repercussions for their actions. One of the things I like about this manga is that there's a clear divide between being a student and a pro i.e. I can't imagine Horikoshi having a group of pros job to another group of villains and then sent out students who systematically do a better job or have a student defeat a pro with years of experience by himself after only training on a new technique for a couple of days.

And the heroes side currently? We have Deku's class, the other class, the Top 3 students of UA, we have the rival school and on top of this dozens pro-heroes.
Even if the count the Yakuza to the villain side, even they are in a weak state & trying to get to the top again.

Wait did you systematically forget that in the arc alone three heroes are already down while the rest are following straight into the villains' plans getting distracted by fodder as he makes his escape? I suppose yeah there's no character who an heir for a cult of assassins and was tortured as a child or another who's off to avenge the genocide of his clan but I don't really see how you can say that nobody on the hero side is struggle.

I would say, that by sending the big bad All-For-One to prison Horikoshi actually hurt his manga after all. There is no real threats left, besides Shigaraki's group and they're not in the best state at the moment.

Well yeah the manga is about kids training to become heroes in school not fighting a villain of the week. All Might and AFO is pretty much the level cap for this manga so the focus is more or less how Deku and Shigaraki are going to reach that status by the end of it, there's going to be plenty of threats along the way on both sides and of course there's the general collapse of civilization with the villain movement.

Horikoshi should've established other villains or even villain organisations to keep tension high

Then he'll just be making the same mistakes Toriyama, Kishimoto and Kubo did by trying to one up the adversary every arc and detract from the main focus of the story which are the development of the cast and their personal struggles hence why the VA are the perfect counter to UA because they'll grow alongside the cast in numbers and in strength because they too a shooting to reach a standard left by the strongest villain much like the students want to reach the standard left by the strongest hero.

Of course, I know, that the League of Villains will become a greater threat later on and we just see how they grow to power, but in One Piece we have the rise of Blackbeard AND the threat of the other Yonkou(edit: and the Marines, complettely forgot about them) in the background(and yeah, I know,it's not a perfect example).

Blackbeard didn't become the primary antagonist until way later in the story hell his first introduction gave us really nothing to go by where his role in the story will lie and he's not much of an adversary towards Luffy even though he was the catalyst to Ace losing his life the act of killing wasn't done by him since Luffy seems more interested in getting revenge on Sakazuki and slept on Jimbei's recap on how Blackbeard became a Yonkou. The Marines are kinda just a joke now unfortunately with Sakazuki being the only character that can be deemed a threat towards Luffy and the rest not being necessarily antagonistic towards them at all.

And I know, it makes sense, why this is, because we were in a golden era of heroes thanks to All Might, and having other villains for the sake of having them, is not the best solution, but at the same time, having only a few villains, who are actually struggling vs A DAMN LOT OF HEROES isnt that interesting right now.

You're on your own on that regard, I find the rise of an antagonistic organization to eventually rivaling a heroic one to actually be interesting which gives me Chimera Ant Arc vibes where the antagonist starting out non-threatening to actually being strong enough for the heroes to use their best against them which is what the story seems to be heading (Overhaul teaching Shigaraki how to play shogi...)

 

[Scruffy8642]

While MHA isnt great atm, I was just thinking last night how its still one of the most exciting Jump series currently, which is very sad.. Nothing else in the magazine is at an exciting stage atm, and even bad MHA is still more exciting than them to me. With HZ ending and Neverland and OP losing steam lately, plus every other series is just in a downer now, MHA is providing some of my only enjoyement in Jump.

Sad because I remember being extremely excited for 6 or 7 series last year, but now they're all in a slump and I can go weeks without even realising I havent read the latest chapters.