Discussion Bounties: How are they Attributed?

[Deleted member 169696]

Robin always had a Devil fruit too. She's had it since she was 8 or earlier.

Sorry, I forgot about that. And as for everything else, maybe I'll reply some other time, but whatever.

 

[Ketimatsu]

I wonder if power level bounties discussion will revolve around Robin, Chopper, Ussop and similar exceptions?

Yeah apparently.... it is like comparing pre-skip and post skip. Just think how Smoker talked about Robin and Crocodile being associate, like in the way that if a person of 79 millions bounty and 81 millions team up, they are going to take down the world. Today that sounds ridiculous....

Also there is the idea of threshold 100 millions, 1 billion, if you get something over that pretty much it was written all over the place that the character is top-notch, really strong.

Bounty won't go up because of strength, but only with crimes.

Do you actually realize that they also go up after the crime committed is "beating somebody with a higher bounty"?

 

[Enima]

Well, Perospero did brag about his bounty, as if it was indeed a big deal. He was like: "oh, btw, you know what my bounty is? It's 700 million." Implying that he is no joke strength wise. I doubt that his intention was to convey that he possess a threat to the World Government or anything along the lines (even if he in fact does).

That just guarantees he's not strong. Strong people rarely brag about their bounty.

Also, Perospero might very well be worthy of his high bounty. Because, that huge explosion from Pedro even damaged Big Mom herself. It's just that he is weak against fire, but apart from that he displayed some awesome durability and amazing proficiency in using his ability.

Big mom was fine after that explosion and she wasn't using Haki.

I can't think of one single feat that puts him above Sanji. There are many people stronger than him with lower bounties.

Huge difference doesnt make sense to my point. You have rather small difference between the 3 commanders. Difference is there to tell their power levels apart. All fighter character's bounties are about their power levels and all 3 commanders are fighters. There is nothing else there to measure their bounty.

Maybe cracker stayed home when Katakuri took on a vice admiral? 100-200 million difference in bounty could be caused due to reasons like that.

I think you are heavily overestimating Sabo and heavily underestimating Perospero.

Well, one one hand we have a guy who fought an admiral and then wiped the floor with a yonko commander but still wasn't tired.

then we have perespero who lost an arm due to a bomb.

I don't think you guys understand what I'm trying to say.

If someone says I have to fight somebody and gives me two options: one is a 7 foot tall 300 lbs guy and the other one is a 6 foot tall 180 lbs guy. I would choose to fight the second guy because he's probably weaker. But can we guarantee he's weaker? NO. The first guy might be an extremely obese dude who can't walk 100 meters without taking a break while the second guy might be an MMA fighter.

But! If you were told that the 6 foot guy is an MMA fighter and you weren't told anything about the 7 foot guy (he could've been a plumber who knows?) You would've chose to fight the 7 foot guy because you know that the 6 foot guy is strong but the 7 foot guy might be weak. We assume he's weaker because simply being taller and heavier doesn't guarantee he's stronger.

If you show me two people and give me no Info about them and one of them have a higher bounty then I would assume that the guy with a higher bounty is stronger. But cracker already showed us how strong he was while we knew nothing about Katakuri. So we know Cracker was strong while Katakuri might be strong, Assuming Cracker was stronger was the logical thing to do. Cracker was the 6 foot guy and Katakuri was the 7 foot guy in this situation.

 

[nik87]

Why was it logical to assume that Cracker is stronger than Katakuri? Only because he had time to show his power and Katakuri didnt?

 

[Enima]

Nah, because we know Cracker was strong. We didn't know Katakuri was strong, there was a high probability he was strong, but we didn't know whether he was strong or not.

Katakuri did get a chance to show his power. If we're going by pure feats then Cracker is still better. Cracker fought Luffy at full strength (Luffy also had Nami). Katakuri is fighting a half dead Luffy and Luffy still managed to do something against Katakuri. The only reason to believe Katakuri is stronger is because the BM pirates fodders said so.

 

[nik87]

Well if you took bounty as a scale for power levels it would be clear that Katakuri is stronger. Also if you consider the small details since his introduction its clear hes the stronger one. If you consider that most of the time weakest are introduced first its clear as well.
It wasnt the fodder who said it, its Oda telling that to us. Or is there someone else in there to who the fodder is talking to?
Only because you didnt know Katakuri is strong its not logical to assume that Cracker is stronger.

 

[Enima]

Well
Reasons to believe Cracker was stronger

1. Fought Luffy at full power (along with Nami) and still managed to do quite well. Katakuri fought half dead Luffy (alone) and still got hit.
2. Has a bounty of 860 million beri even though he only uses a fraction of his powers. This is the most important point. Luffy was the only enemy who even knew what cracker looked like.

Reasons to believe Katakuri was stronger

1. Bounty (Even though cracker's bounty isn't based on his full power and assuming a persons strength based on their bounty isn't accurate)
2. That's all

Reasons the one piece community uses to prove Katakuri is stronger

1. He looks cool
2. He's got swag
3. His powers are cooler
4. Because we like him

 

[M3J]

@M3J Just like my first reply in this thread. What is the difference in danger the 3 commanders possess? That is, if you think its danger that they represent. All 3 are the commanders of the Yonko, all 3 represent the same danger. Details are not given for anything else to be represented by that gap other than power levels.

This whole discussion started because of 3 commanders and how we knew Katakuri was strongest and now everyone is taking Robins bounty as example for power level Those are exceptions, like i already said. Exceptions are characters which bounty has nothing to do with their strength or at least major part of bounty is based on something else than strength. Exceptions are as well almost all members of SHs. It is about the power levels of the character which they meet or fight. Simply an information what power level characters have.
When it comes to Kidd's old bounty, yes he had extra amount added to it due involving innocent but if you think that part makes the major amount of his bounty then you are wrong.

Yeah, so why assume that the bounties are mainly an indication of their power levels when we barely know anything? I mean, we don't even know the gap between their power levels, if any, just that Cracker's fighting style is different from Katakuri's. Even though Zoro and Sanji are for the most part equally or nearly equally powerful, Sanji didn't get a bounty until arcs later, and even then it was still significantly lower than Zoro's.

For all we know, Katakuri's bounty might be higher despite him being weaker (which I doubt anyway) just because he's more visible to the Marines than the other commanders, if not more destructive or useful to Big Mom. If it was mainly about power levels, then why would Oda go out of his way to indicate Kidd's bounty was higher than Luffy's because of how destructive he is? Otherwise do you think Kidd was stronger than Luffy at the time?

I wonder what crimes Luffy committed to get his first bounty? He made his name known and his strength acknowledged by defeating 17mil and 20mil strong people. I wonder what crime it was to defeat those two pirates?
I also wonder how he always got bounty higher than the bounty of the person he defeated?
I wonder why Bellamy was confident he could take on 30mil strong guy and almost sh*t his pants when he for a second believed that same guy was 100mil strong? If bounty doesnt equal strength then he had 0 reasons to get scared and to doubt his win.
I wonder what bounties represent, other than power levels, for all the characters which have no details (crimes committed and whatever you think its based on)?
I wonder if power level bounties discussion will revolve around Robin, Chopper, Ussop and similar exceptions?

He attacked a Marine, if I remember correctly, for either taking the gold Nami was gathering to buy herself out of Arlong's service or because the Marine was bribed by ARlong to overlook Arlong's atrocities. Otherwise no one else out of the island knew or would have known Luffy beat Arlong.

Because he's shown he's more dangerous by beating someone superior to him, whether by sheer luck or help or whatnot.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Big mom was fine after that explosion and she wasn't using Haki.

http://readms.net/r/one_piece/879/4575/9

Look at her arm.

 

[Freid]

Crimes trigger bounty increases but the level of crimes also suggest the level of someone's power especially since the majority of actionable crimes actually require strength. There aren't many crimes more serious than breaking into Impel down, freeing a bunch of level 6 prisoners and then gate crashing the war of the best, all of which only earned Luffy a bounty of 400m and yet we've seen guys with more than double that number. So bounty can be used to measure strength to a certain extent but if no crime is committed then the government can't justify a bounty increase.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Luffy was the only enemy who even knew what cracker looked like.

Not the only one, one of the few.

Katakuri fought half dead Luffy (alone) and still got hit.

Where did he suffer any damages? I do not remember Katakuri being actually hit for real. Actually he just easily got rid of anybody facing him.

Reasons to believe Katakuri was stronger

1. Bounty (Even though cracker's bounty isn't based on his full power and assuming a persons strength based on their bounty isn't accurate)
2. That's all

2. Bege saying he is the most troublesome guy at the tea party, and called him "monster"
3. He has an unprecedented unique power
4. He has barely shown his true power, he was casually trying to kill people with mochi beans and also using a trident, outpowered Ichi without problem.

I do not say it proves anything. But they are many elements to base the idea Katakuri is the strongest commander without being a fanboy.

And actually letting himself caught up by Luffy is a perfect strategy from his perspective. Luffy is the real threat he must eliminate, this 1vs1 is perfect from the two sides. Maybe even more for him in the hypothesis he knows the mirror world better than Luffy.

 

[nik87]

@Enima About Cracker. He way toying with g2/g3 Luffy like everyone else does in new world when it comes to top tier (Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri). When Luffy went g4 it became hide and seek for both of them, chasing each other around without being able to land a hit which matters. We knew he was strong enough to cut g4 armament hardening but except that we didnt see much. Rest of the fight was the game of cat and mouse, until the last scene where he was taken out.

Just because Katakuri got hit you cant call him weaker. He is different type of fighter, one which gets hit, while Cracker was avoiding this. Katakuri allows to get hit because it does nothing to him. Everyone at wedding ceremony who took a swing at Katakuri landed a hit. But did it do anything? Aokiji was hit by Zoro/Luffy/Sanji first time he met them. Would you consider that as weakness? That is compared to Kizaru who they werent able to hit when they were much stronger at Sabaody.

As i already said, bounties are information from Oda to us to let us know what power level we can expect from characters, mainly the fighter type of characters (dont bring Robin in as counter argument into this ).
Yes Crackers bounty is based on biscuit body for which it took G4 Kong Gun to break. How many characters do you expect can pull off attacks of that scale? Its Luffy's strongest attack second only to KKG. Even with his real body revealed he is not much stronger, just more annoying to fight, we saw why.

Katakuri since introduction had extreme note of seriousness. Shooting people with beans, presenting total superiority over others, talking down to everyone, Bege calling him most troublesome guy, his physique... There were so many clues aside from bounty.

@M3J Exactly. What can we assume from bounty other than power levels? If we got no details nothing except the power level can be assumed. People are assuming a lot just for the sake of argument. You think that Katakuris bounty is higher than Smoothies because: He watched women take a bath, committed a crime, got reported, bounty increased. Smoothie watched men bath, committed a crime, men liked it, she didnt get reported and bounty didnt increase?
You think that type of details will contribute to the bounty gap of 100-200mil?
Commanders are one and one thing only. Strongest fighters and for them bounty represents only the power levels, unless specifically said otherwise. There are no assumptions for this or that. You can assume anything for the sake of argument but wont change anything. It is about power levels unless there are specific cases highlighted, as in a certain commander having lower/low/no bounty at all.

The marine which Luffy attacked because stealing Nami's gold was operating for his own profit, betraying the Marines. Bounty was issued as acknowledgment of strength for defeating Krieg and Arlong.

I think @Freid explained it quite well. You have to be strong enough to commit a certain crime. If bounty represented crimes Luffy would probably be worlds second most wanted man for Impel down/Marineford/reveal of being Dragon's son but he is not, because of one thing - he is not strong enough.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Crime is not a level of power, it's fundamentally just a deed. If we were not told the crime Robin committed, all those who claim Bounty to indicate strength would absolutely be wrong. Strength cannot be inferred from bounty, only thing one can glean is they're seasoned and experienced. Punching a Tenryuubito doesn't require strength, for all we know it'd attribute one a bounty of 50m. It would by no means indicate that x-character is "this" strong.

Hell, Usopp has a bounty higher than many SHs far superior to himself;

1. Usopp, 200m.
2. Sanji, 177m.
3. Robin, 130m.
4. Franky, 94m.
5. Brook, 83m.

 

[nik87]

Aaaand we are back to Robin.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Aaaand we are back to Robin.

No, no, to Usopp, the last troll from oda

Next:

Spoiler

Chopper

 

[Enima]

http://readms.net/r/one_piece/879/4575/9

Look at her arm.

She wasn't using Haki. She took the Impact from that bomb head on without haki and she only has minoe bruises on her arm.

Where did he suffer any damages? I do not remember Katakuri being actually hit for real. Actually he just easily got rid of anybody facing him.

Grabbing him counts as a hit. Katakuri was caught in his grip.

Not the only one, one of the few.

Yeah, but none of the marines have seen him. That's why they use the picture of his soldiers instead of him.

2. Bege saying he is the most troublesome guy at the tea party, and called him "monster"
3. He has an unprecedented unique power
4. He has barely shown his true power, he was casually trying to kill people with mochi beans and also using a trident, outpowered Ichi without problem.

I never said Katakuri is weak. I just said that he's not as strong as people are making him out to be. The reasons you mentioned above show that he's strong. But, is he stronger than Cracker? At least when it comes to facing Luffy?

I do not say it proves anything. But they are many elements to base the idea Katakuri is the strongest commander without being a fanboy.

@Enima About Cracker. He way toying with g2/g3 Luffy like everyone else does in new world when it comes to top tier (Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri). When Luffy went g4 it became hide and seek for both of them, chasing each other around without being able to land a hit which matters. We knew he was strong enough to cut g4 armament hardening but except that we didnt see much. Rest of the fight was the game of cat and mouse, until the last scene where he was taken out.

The only person toying with Luffy was Cracker. The others were doing great, but Luffy wasn't forced into G4.

Imagine any strong opponent Luffy faced, and now Imagine how the battle would've been, if the opponents were half dead. For example take Doflamingo, If he was in the same state as he was halfway through the battle at the beginning and Luffy was at full power, Luffy would've wiped the floor with Doflamingo.

In this situation Luffy is the half dead guy while Katakuri is the fully powered guy. Katakuri should've been able to take out Luffy in a couple of seconds If he was truly that strong. But he couldn't.

Just because Katakuri got hit you cant call him weaker. He is different type of fighter, one which gets hit, while Cracker was avoiding this. Katakuri allows to get hit because it does nothing to him. Everyone at wedding ceremony who took a swing at Katakuri landed a hit. But did it do anything? Aokiji was hit by Zoro/Luffy/Sanji first time he met them. Would you consider that as weakness? That is compared to Kizaru who they werent able to hit when they were much stronger at Sabaody.

If Aokiji knew he was in the middle of a fight but still he got caught in the Grip of his enemy. Yeh, in that case I would be disappointed in his performance.

Yes Crackers bounty is based on biscuit body for which it took G4 Kong Gun to break. How many characters do you expect can pull off attacks of that scale? Its Luffy's strongest attack second only to KKG. Even with his real body revealed he is not much stronger, just more annoying to fight, we saw why.

So... that's what I'm tryin to say. Cracker can produce an unlimited amount of those biscuits so I don't see why his bounty should be anywhere close to his real strength.

Katakuri since introduction had extreme note of seriousness. Shooting people with beans, presenting total superiority over others, talking down to everyone, Bege calling him most troublesome guy, his physique... There were so many clues aside from bounty.

Who's the bossiest person within the Straw hat crew................. Not Luffy

 

[M3J]

@M3J Exactly. What can we assume from bounty other than power levels? If we got no details nothing except the power level can be assumed. People are assuming a lot just for the sake of argument. You think that Katakuris bounty is higher than Smoothies because: He watched women take a bath, committed a crime, got reported, bounty increased. Smoothie watched men bath, committed a crime, men liked it, she didnt get reported and bounty didnt increase?
You think that type of details will contribute to the bounty gap of 100-200mil?
Commanders are one and one thing only. Strongest fighters and for them bounty represents only the power levels, unless specifically said otherwise. There are no assumptions for this or that. You can assume anything for the sake of argument but wont change anything. It is about power levels unless there are specific cases highlighted, as in a certain commander having lower/low/no bounty at all.

The marine which Luffy attacked because stealing Nami's gold was operating for his own profit, betraying the Marines. Bounty was issued as acknowledgment of strength for defeating Krieg and Arlong.

I think @Freid explained it quite well. You have to be strong enough to commit a certain crime. If bounty represented crimes Luffy would probably be worlds second most wanted man for Impel down/Marineford/reveal of being Dragon's son but he is not, because of one thing - he is not strong enough.

That they're pretty dangerous. Buggy isn't really that strong, but he'd have a pretty high bounty just because of who he has in his crew and his association with Whitebeard. Hell, he became a shichibukai because he has dangerous prisoners in his crew, not because he's powerful. Again, bounty doesn't mean the person is stronger, You're also assuming and using weird, if not lack of understanding, arguments. Katakuri's bounty could be higher just because he's gone out on more missions for Big Mom than any other commander.

And yeah, I know it will. Again, bounty is a mix of how dangerous the criminal is, how strong they are, and indication of personality. I'm assuming nothing but stating what the manga has told us, if not implied. It's not that hard to understand, but you need to start thinking critically.

Er, no. The Marine put a bounty out on Luffy not because of his power, but because Luffy attacked him. Nothing to do with Luffy beating Arlong or Krieg (which no Marine at the time would have known).

Yeah, but bounty still doesn't correlate solely to the criminal's strength. The second strongest pirate could have the highest bounty solely because he/she is the most destructive, or the tenth strongest pirate could have a higher bounty than the fourth just because he/she has knowledge or information on something that the Marines don't want them to have.

No, no, to Usopp, the last troll from oda

Next:

Spoiler

Chopper

It'd actually make sense to give Chopper a pretty high bounty since he's the ship's doctor and is integral in keeping the crew alive after hard fights.

 

[nik87]

The only person toying with Luffy was Cracker. The others were doing great, but Luffy wasn't forced into G4.

Imagine any strong opponent Luffy faced, and now Imagine how the battle would've been, if the opponents were half dead. For example take Doflamingo, If he was in the same state as he was halfway through the battle at the beginning and Luffy was at full power, Luffy would've wiped the floor with Doflamingo.

In this situation Luffy is the half dead guy while Katakuri is the fully powered guy. Katakuri should've been able to take out Luffy in a couple of seconds If he was truly that strong. But he couldn't.

As i said, top tiers of the new world are toying with gear2 and gear3 Luffy. Doffy did it, Cracker did it, Katakuri does it. I dont know what is not clear there and what you didnt understand.
Luffy wanted just one hit against Big Mom, he did exactly that and now everyone thinks hes half dead that he cant even enter gear4. It is funny how much people can assume in the wrong direction. I'll show a panel before the fight. You tell me if he looks half dead or if there is any indication that he is at least tired

If Aokiji knew he was in the middle of a fight but still he got caught in the Grip of his enemy. Yeh, in that case I would be disappointed in his performance.

I can only lol at this. How do you suppose they would ended in mirror world had he not grabbed Katakuri? Luffy would grab Brulee and tell Katakuri to follow him into the mirror world? But oh wait, he cant follow him since Luffy is the one holding Brulee. So Luffy would stretch his arm and tell to Katakuri: Here grab my hand because if i grab you then you will look weak and lame? Its funny that people dont understand things which have to happen because there is no other way around it.

@M3J Being Shichibukai and having high bounty are two different things. Buggy is a shichibukai but he has no high bounty.

You're also assuming and using weird, if not lack of understanding, arguments. Katakuri's bounty could be higher just because he's gone out on more missions for Big Mom than any other commander.

And yeah, I know it will. Again, bounty is a mix of how dangerous the criminal is, how strong they are, and indication of personality. I'm assuming nothing but stating what the manga has told us, if not implied. It's not that hard to understand, but you need to start thinking critically.

If you want to think critically then start doing it. Start thinking behind the scenes. It is Oda who decides things and attaches bounties and he put the numbers accordingly to each character. He knows the background and details for every bounty, if there are details.
Has it been stated that Katakuri went on more missions and why he earned higher bounty? It hasnt. You can assume anything for the sake of argument but like i said it wont change a thing. Bounties are about power levels, exceptions excluded, and power levels only. Additional factors which contribute to bounties are minor percentages which you can ignore since in most cases those are not even mentioned.

 

[Enima]

As i said, top tiers of the new world are toying with gear2 and gear3 Luffy. Doffy did it, Cracker did it, Katakuri does it. I dont know what is not clear there and what you didnt understand.

Toying with Luffy implies that Luffy couldn't do anything against them. Doflamingo was damaged by Luffy even before gear 4th and Katakuri was caught by Luffy.

Luffy wanted just one hit against Big Mom, he did exactly that and now everyone thinks hes half dead that he cant even enter gear4. It is funny how much people can assume in the wrong direction. I'll show a panel before the fight. You tell me if he looks half dead or if there is any indication that he is at least tired

Yeah but he fought against Cracker for 11 hours the day before. He's exhausted. Last time he fought Doflamingo for an hour and rested for three days. This battle was much harder than that one. Saying that he's fine even without any rest isn't realistic. He couldn't stay in G4 because he was exhausted, he said "I'm losing power" didn't seem like he was transforming back voluntarily.

I can only lol at this. How do you suppose they would ended in mirror world had he not grabbed Katakuri? Luffy would grab Brulee and tell Katakuri to follow him into the mirror world? But oh wait, he cant follow him since Luffy is the one holding Brulee. So Luffy would stretch his arm and tell to Katakuri: Here grab my hand because if i grab you then you will look weak and lame? Its funny that people dont understand things which have to happened because there is no other way around it.

Why didn't Katakuri just stay on the ship which has all of his enemies on it? I don't get what you're trying to say. Why would Katakuri want to go inside the mirror world in the first place? Maybe he gave up on trying to kill his enemies so he could look cool?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

She wasn't using Haki. She took the Impact from that bomb head on without haki and she only has minoe bruises on her arm.

First those are not bruises, but burns. Second, Perospero was in the epicenter of that explosion, we also don't know wether he used Haki or not. And finally what's your point? Big Mom was said to be akin to an iron ball even ignoring the Haki, so her being damaged by that explosion says something. And for Perospero who was inches away from Pedro to get away with simply losing a limb is quite impressive. And then he just grows a new candy arm, uses this crazy candy slug technique and overall looks very capable of continuing fighting.

As for his feats, he creates extremely detailed buildings etc., he is very fluent with his abilities, his only apparent weakness is fire, so yeah, perhaps Sanji could take him on, but it won't be like Sanji wipes floor with Perospero's face or something.

Also, why do you guys insist that Cracker's performance was better than Katakuri's? It was impressive, but if I recall correctly nearly each of Katakuri's punches/kicks made Luffy cough blood while Katakuri himself wasn't even scratched once. At the very least he was on par with Cracker, from that perspective.

Plus character's design and wow-effect could also serve as indicators of strength. Every god damn line is decided by Oda, so if he makes us think that someone is strong, then hell what is your problem with us getting that impression? We were supposed to perceive it like that!

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2017 ---

...and Katakuri was caught by Luffy.

Wow, great achievement. What did it do to Katakuri again? Oh, nothing... Right.

Yeah but he fought against Cracker for 11 hours the day before. He's exhausted. Last time he fought Doflamingo for an hour and rested for three days. This battle was much harder than that one. Saying that he's fine even without any rest isn't realistic. He couldn't stay in G4 because he was exhausted, he said "I'm losing power" didn't seem like he was transforming back voluntarily.

This is a lame excuse for a New World pirate. New World's big fish can fight days on without rest. Ace vs Jinbei – 5 days. Akainu vs Aokiji – 10 days.

Why didn't Katakuri just stay on the ship which has all of his enemies on it? I don't get what you're trying to say. Why would Katakuri want to go inside the mirror world in the first place? Maybe he gave up on trying to kill his enemies so he could look cool?

Why did Lucci let Luffy reach him? There are things like personal ambition, dignity, stupidity for God's sake. There could be tons of reason. Maybe Katakuri is just super passive occasionally, or has his own preferences battleground wise. Anyhow, it was necessary for plot progression.

Also, someone asked Oda in SBS once what bounty would Enel have had he sailed the seas as a pirate. And Oda replied – 500 million berries. He clearly meant it in a way that the number represents Enel's power level.