Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[SkerllyFC]

Also, if you didn't care about this "children's and preteen product" then you wouldn't care about the episode count or filler content, now would you?

I say it in the sense that Black Clover is not complex, deep or anything for you to complain about having non-canon material, so why to worry about that? It will appeal more to children and pre-teens, but not anyone 15+ because it's shallow. 13 episodes of faithful adaptation bullshit would've given us a total crap anyways, but 50 episodes at least means that there can be some upgrades.

Also, how important is to you that every manga has to be a panel-by-panel adaptation to be good? That's why MHAis the same product in anime form but with some better production values. I can read/watch each one interchangeably because of that stupid faithfullness, same with any JoJo anime. If it's an adaptation, there should be changes, additions, more non-canon content. That's one of the downfalls of modern anime series: that they have to appeal to the source material readers more than the casual audience, and when the anime series is over, you have to read the source material as an obbligation instead of an option. An adaptation shouldn't make me read the source material out of obbligation. Gone are the days where anime movies and series were less about these modern production things.

 

[Leoat12]

I say it in the sense that Black Clover is not complex, deep or anything for you to complain about having non-canon material, so why to worry about that? It will appeal more to children and pre-teens, but not anyone 15+ because it's shallow. 13 episodes of faithful adaptation bullshit would've given us a total crap anyways, but 50 episodes at least means that there can be some upgrades.

Also, how important is to you that every manga has to be a panel-by-panel adaptation to be good? That's why MHAis the same product in anime form but with some better production values. I can read/watch each one interchangeably because of that stupid faithfullness, same with any JoJo anime. If it's an adaptation, there should be changes, additions, more non-canon content. That's one of the downfalls of modern anime series: that they have to appeal to the source material readers more than the casual audience, and when the anime series is over, you have to read the source material as an obbligation instead of an option. An adaptation shouldn't make me read the source material out of obbligation. Gone are the days where anime movies and series were less about these modern production things.

Your post made me laugh so hard... Thank you for the comedy moment. XD
Read the next sentence carefully and try to absorb its meaning: ANIMES ARE MADE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ADVERTISING THE ORIGINAL WORK (THE MANGA) OTHERWISE IT WOULDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE FOR THE PUBLISHERS TO PROMOTE IT.
They HAVE to be made in such a way that the knowledge acquired on the anime makes it translatable to the original work. People buy the entire manga, even the volumes adapted by the anime, out of completeness and because there are always minor diferences, but they could, in theory, resume on the manga from the point the anime ended, In theory, because many studios make fillers and original endings (which is the worst thing ever created in the anime market). Fillers and original endings only makes the task of bringing new readers to the original work more difficult. Animes are huge PVs for the original work, they have their own revenue with DVD/BD sales, but in the end they don't last forever, anime comes and goes and the manga remains as the pillar of the franchise, it is the most important product of the franchise and the first that is promoted.

 

[ElJin]

How is Black Clover older volumes doing after the second episode?

All volumes are within the top 160.

 

[SkerllyFC]

Your post made me laugh so hard... Thank you for the comedy moment. XD
Read the next sentence carefully and try to absorb its meaning: ANIMES ARE MADE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ADVERTISING THE ORIGINAL WORK (THE MANGA) OTHERWISE IT WOULDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE FOR THE PUBLISHERS TO PROMOTE IT.
They HAVE to be made in such a way that the knowledge acquired on the anime makes it translatable to the original work. People buy the entire manga, even the volumes adapted by the anime, out of completeness and because there are always minor diferences, but they could, in theory, resume on the manga from the point the anime ended, In theory, because many studios make fillers and original endings (which is the worst thing ever created in the anime market). Fillers and original endings only makes the task of bringing new readers to the original work more difficult. Animes are huge PVs for the original work, they have their revenue with DVD/BD sales, but in the end they don't last forever, anime comes and goes and the manga remains as the pillar of the franchise, it is the most important product of the franchise and the first that is promoted.

Which is how an adaptation should never be handled. Just to put an example, the makers behind Batman V Superman relied so heavily on DC fans' knowledge of DC Comics that it's one of the reasons why it became a poorly received movie. In this year, Wonder Woman was released, and it was made as basically its own product, and pleased casual and hardcore audiences better. If the current anime model happened with comic book adaptations it would be more chaotic.

 

[Caiops]

All volumes are within the top 160.

Can you post the positions?

 

[Leoat12]

Which is how an adaptation should never be handled. Just to put an example, the makers behind Batman V Superman relied so heavily on DC fans' knowledge of DC Comics that it's one of the reasons why it became a poorly received movie. In this year, Wonder Woman was released, and it was made as basically its own product, and pleased casual and hardcore audiences better. If the current anime model happened with comic book adaptations it would be more chaotic.

This form of adaptation is going really well since the first person I saw complaining ever was you. There are people here defending Black Clover filler because it seems it is somewhat useful, but if it were useless, like the majority are, people would be spiting fire from the mouths, filler on the second episode? Come on...

 

[Nakura]

Can you post the positions?

To save you from having to ask, here is the link to the shoseki rankings site:
http://shosekiranking.blog.fc2.com/

You can check back there whenever you need to. It's all in Japanese, but it's not that hard to navigate.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Exactly. If the current anime adaptation format was the wrong way to do it as you claim it is, then it would have changed years ago. But obviously it does work, so it hasn't changed.

 

[jagman1x3]

ANIMES ARE MADE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ADVERTISING THE ORIGINAL WORK (THE MANGA) OTHERWISE IT WOULDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE FOR THE PUBLISHERS TO PROMOTE IT.

I will never understand why people continue to convince themselves this is true. An anime exists to sell the anime.

 

[ElJin]

Can you post the positions?

Go to the site Nakurawari said and search for ブラッククローバー, it's really easy xD And to be fair, the last volume on raking is in position 123, so all the volumes are within top 130.

 

[Caiops]

To save you from having to ask, here is the link to the shoseki rankings site:
http://shosekiranking.blog.fc2.com/

You can check back there whenever you need to. It's all in Japanese, but it's not that hard to navigate.

Ohh thanks, i wanted that.

Looks like Black Clover backlog sales are just like World Trigger and Toriko after the anime started.

It will probaly sell 250-300k after the anime is finished...

This is just like Toriko, lol.

 

[Leoat12]

Exactly. If the current anime adaptation format was the wrong way to do it as you claim it is, then it would have changed years ago. But obviously it does work, so it hasn't changed.

It is much the contrary even. In the past we had more long running animes with a lot of fillers like Naruto, but now they are short and generally with as few fillers as possible. The market became so much more efficient and the quality rose a lot in my opinion.

 

[Tamil]

I won't talk about Toriko's anime. That's been discussed to death. However, I don't see anything wrong with simplifying down for kids as "王道(Oudou)" battle shounen are aimed at kids and teens. Any other demographic is a periphery demographic. They wanted Toriko to become big and thus put it right before OP. Kimetsu most likely will be late-night so there won't be many issues of censorship. If Made in Abyss is able to show a kid bleed out of all their orifices, then Kimetsu is fine. Honestly, besides Dr. Stone, almost all the new manga are suited for Late-night rather than daytime so censorship will the the last thing to worry about.

Do you have any examples of series that were in a similar position as Kimetsu and weren't censored a lot thanks to a late night timeslot? Strictly Toei ofc, I know any other studio wouldn't censor a lot for a late time slot.

Ohh thanks, i wanted that.

Looks like Black Clover backlog sales are just like World Trigger and Toriko after the anime started.

It will probaly sell 250-300k after the anime is finished...

This is just like Toriko, lol.

No...it isn't. Toriko had a lot of backlog and Toriko was selling around 450k on avg for most of it's anime run time. After the anime ended, Toriko never went below 300k until it's final year where it started to rush even more.

 

[Leoat12]

I will never understand why people continue to convince themselves this is true. An anime exists to sell the anime.

It is only true for series like One Piece that are on going forever and the anime can stand on its own although it still relies on the manga. 12 episode animes or even 24 doesn't make a long standing profit, make an anime is expensive and the majority of the earnings go to pay the bills, really... Anime is about the buzz that it makes to sell the manga and other products related to the franchise, the more people they can carry to the original work and transform it into a long standing profit, the merrier. Only big franchises can make their animes a product by itself.

You should read about how animators works a lot and get paid pretty badly because it takes a lot of people to make an anime, but the profit is not so great to have a good salary for everybody.

 

[Caiops]

Do you have any examples of series that were in a similar position as Kimetsu and weren't censored a lot thanks to a late night timeslot? Strictly Toei ofc, I know any other studio wouldn't censor a lot for a late time slot.

No...it isn't. Toriko had a lot of backlog and Toriko was selling around 450k on avg for most of it's anime run time. After the anime ended, Toriko never went below 300k until it's final year where it started to rush even more.

Thats true
58, *,487,114 Toriko vol.18

So World Trigger levels then.

 

[Tamil]

Thats true
58, *,487,114 Toriko vol.18

So World Trigger levels then.

Maybe but WT sales are still strong.

●ワールドトリガー
│ 初動. (日)│ ２週計｜ ３週計｜ ４週計｜ ５週計┃　　累計 (日数)┃ 発売日.│タイトル
│**圏外 (4)│------│------│------│------┃*,**,圏外 (**4)┃2013/07｜ワールドトリガー 1 ※初動18,384以下
│*31157 (5)│------│------│------│------┃*,*31,157 (**5)┃2013/09｜ワールドトリガー 2
│*50838 (5)│------│------│------│------┃*,*50,838 (**5)┃2013/12｜ワールドトリガー 3
│*60815 (6)│*76379│------│------│------┃*,*76,379 (*13)┃2014/02｜ワールドトリガー 4
│*48381 (3)│*83676│------│------│------┃*,*83,676 (*10)┃2014/04｜ワールドトリガー 5
│*77173 (5)│100792│------│------│------┃*,100,792 (*12)┃2014/06｜ワールドトリガー 6
│*82179 (4)│113357│******│131829│------┃*,131,829 (*25)┃2014/09｜ワールドトリガー 7
│*69982 (3)│114309│------│------│------┃*,114,309 (*10)┃2014/10｜ワールドトリガー 8
│153824 (7)│185799│******│211593│------┃*,361,399 (322)┃2015/01｜ワールドトリガー 9
│156001 (5)│206563│229063│******│257245┃*,371,416 (264)┃2015/03｜ワールドトリガー 10
│167149 (4)│227858│254340│269102│------┃*,350,637 (172)┃2015/06｜ワールドトリガー 11
│147368 (3)│241891│272018│292349│------┃*,325,690 (*80)┃2015/09｜ワールドトリガー 12
│146833 (3)│243294│273241│292706│------┃*,392,138 (353)┃2015/12｜ワールドトリガー 13
│156433 (3)│257631│289571│******│319631┃*,381,789 (262)┃2016/03｜ワールドトリガー 14
│159437 (3)│264097│295120│313678│------┃*,375,944 (171)┃2016/06｜ワールドトリガー 15
│143333 (3)│250253│282655│304311│------┃*,344,137 (*80)┃2016/09｜ワールドトリガー 16
│133843 (3)│243575│277049│******│310657┃*,357,667 (171)┃2016/12｜ワールドトリガー 17
│137262 (3)│241796│275748│------│------┃*,332,766 (*80)┃2017/03｜ワールドトリガー 18
│*63352 (3)│*80621│******│*93086│125507┃*,125,507 (*31)┃2016/03｜ワールドトリガー オフィシャルデータブック BORDER BRIEFING FILE


I don't think BC will perform as good as WT now, especially after the anime ends. Peak is 392k, yeah that doesn't look likely for BC. WT had a really good boost, gotta give that to Toei even tho Im not a fan of their adaptations.

 

[razerxs]

I don't think BC will perform as good as WT now, especially after the anime ends. Peak is 392k, yeah that doesn't look likely for BC. WT had a really good boost, gotta give that to Toei even tho Im not a fan of their adaptations.

Why so bearish BC's stock? Sales have only been up for a week.
Look at the boost instead of skipping right to the year-end / peak sales.

│*69982 (3)│114309│------│------│------┃*,114,309 (*10)┃2014/10｜World Trigger 8 ~ anime premiere
│153824 (7)│185799│******│211593│------┃*,361,399 (322)┃2015/01｜World Trigger 9 ~ a very weak cour later

Toriko's took a while too.
│175851 (7)│216554│------│------│------┃*,437,565 (231)┃2011/04｜Toriko 14 ~ anime premiere
│235017 (7)│283820│311498│------│------┃*,429,644 (140)┃2011/07｜Toriko 15 ~ a cour later

 

[Tanzo]

January 4th Volume Releases:
Shokugeki no Soma #28
The Disastrous Life of Saiki K #24
Hinomaru Zumo #18
Isobe Isobee Monogatari #16
Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san #9
The Promised Neverland #7
Spring Weapon No. 1 #5
Shudan! #2

Jump+:
Fire Punch #8
Hana Nochi Hare ~Hanadan Next Season~ #8
Kiss x Death #6
Full Charge!! Kaden-chan #5
Astra Lost in Space #5 (moved from Dec 4)
Makui no Rease #5 (moved from Dec 4)
Juuni Taisen #2
Touken Ranbu -Hanamaru- #2
Bokutachi Hoiku-ka Koukou 1-nensei #1
Hoshi no Ouji-sama #1 - that manga by Man Gatarou
Slime Life #1
Vocchi-men
Seija no Koshin
Tsugi Hagi Quest
MIA -Unjo no Neverland

Moved from Jan 4 to February:
- My Hero Academia #17
- Hinmin Choujin Kanenashi-kun #3
- Vigilante -MHA Illegals #3
- Drive a Stake Into the Heart #2

 

[Caiops]

Maybe but WT sales are still strong.

●ワールドトリガー
│ 初動. (日)│ ２週計｜ ３週計｜ ４週計｜ ５週計┃　　累計 (日数)┃ 発売日.│タイトル
│**圏外 (4)│------│------│------│------┃*,**,圏外 (**4)┃2013/07｜ワールドトリガー 1 ※初動18,384以下
│*31157 (5)│------│------│------│------┃*,*31,157 (**5)┃2013/09｜ワールドトリガー 2
│*50838 (5)│------│------│------│------┃*,*50,838 (**5)┃2013/12｜ワールドトリガー 3
│*60815 (6)│*76379│------│------│------┃*,*76,379 (*13)┃2014/02｜ワールドトリガー 4
│*48381 (3)│*83676│------│------│------┃*,*83,676 (*10)┃2014/04｜ワールドトリガー 5
│*77173 (5)│100792│------│------│------┃*,100,792 (*12)┃2014/06｜ワールドトリガー 6
│*82179 (4)│113357│******│131829│------┃*,131,829 (*25)┃2014/09｜ワールドトリガー 7
│*69982 (3)│114309│------│------│------┃*,114,309 (*10)┃2014/10｜ワールドトリガー 8
│153824 (7)│185799│******│211593│------┃*,361,399 (322)┃2015/01｜ワールドトリガー 9
│156001 (5)│206563│229063│******│257245┃*,371,416 (264)┃2015/03｜ワールドトリガー 10
│167149 (4)│227858│254340│269102│------┃*,350,637 (172)┃2015/06｜ワールドトリガー 11
│147368 (3)│241891│272018│292349│------┃*,325,690 (*80)┃2015/09｜ワールドトリガー 12
│146833 (3)│243294│273241│292706│------┃*,392,138 (353)┃2015/12｜ワールドトリガー 13
│156433 (3)│257631│289571│******│319631┃*,381,789 (262)┃2016/03｜ワールドトリガー 14
│159437 (3)│264097│295120│313678│------┃*,375,944 (171)┃2016/06｜ワールドトリガー 15
│143333 (3)│250253│282655│304311│------┃*,344,137 (*80)┃2016/09｜ワールドトリガー 16
│133843 (3)│243575│277049│******│310657┃*,357,667 (171)┃2016/12｜ワールドトリガー 17
│137262 (3)│241796│275748│------│------┃*,332,766 (*80)┃2017/03｜ワールドトリガー 18
│*63352 (3)│*80621│******│*93086│125507┃*,125,507 (*31)┃2016/03｜ワールドトリガー オフィシャルデータブック BORDER BRIEFING FILE


I don't think BC will perform as good as WT now, especially after the anime ends. Peak is 392k, yeah that doesn't look likely for BC. WT had a really good boost, gotta give that to Toei even tho Im not a fan of their adaptations.

It would be a failure if even after all the money Shueisha gave the Production Comitee(51 episodes and a big team of good animators), it still don't reach WT level of sales.

 

[Doughboy]

I've been wondering, like say if the anime is a success and the BD sales are selling like cocaine, the manga gets a boost and so forth... how long would it take for SP and Shueshia to decide to turn it into a true long runner like DBS or OP, giving BC pure filler arcs or anime original stories to go along with the 1 chapter per episode pace? Or that doesn't happen often if ever?