Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Newkerzy]

Nah, I don't really consider Kishi better than Oda at anything. Oda is probably better at paying bills too, 11 million 2017 babyy.
---------
By the way, this cool new My Hero Academia x Kenshi Yonezu [Peace Sign] Special Music video just dropped. The visuals they used for it were awesome.

Dang, now that's a professionally-made AMV if I've seen one.

 

[Franz]

would you guys consider Kishi artistically better, if not a better character designer, than Oda

It depends.

Are we talking about the last Oda? If I would say that I prefer the current Kishi design.

But if we talk about the Oda who designed One Piece up to EL with the Kishi who designed the first part of Naruto ..... I would say Oda.

 

[De La Croissant]

Overall, I like more the Kishi before Shippuuden. After that his dynamism died.

 

[Heiji]

Saiki Kusuo no Psi Nan : Manga + novel : 6 000 000.

 

[Silverblade]

Kishimoto was an interesting creator when you still could see the influence of Otomo Katsuhiro in his art. But after he adapted the style of the anime character designer Nishio Tetsuya, his art lost most of what has made it so idiosyncratic. His images became flat without no volume behind them, his lines had no more weight, and he mostly abandoned the use of screentones. Ever since the Pickled Sasuke arc, maybe even earlier, Kishimoto's art has been in decline (the same can be said about his writing, but that's another story). To be fair, his recent Akimoto Osamu tribute looked much more like his earlier style, so maybe he hasn't lost everything that made him good.

Oda obviously had Toriyama Akira as his art foundation, and many, many more influences since then, but none of them changed his natural progression as an artist as drastically as Nishio did with Kishimoto. In the last years, Oda's art has become more dense than before - now his page layout has more panels, and his panels are full of characters. Such change might not be to everyone's taste, but with the growth of the world and the cast, it is how Oda naturally tried to adapt as an artist and not drop the pace of his story as a writer.

 

[Reigen]

Early toc this week?

 

[ChocoBar9]

Kishimoto was an interesting creator when you still could see the influence of Otomo Katsuhiro in his art. But after he adapted the style of the anime character designer Nishio Tetsuya, his art lost most of what has made it so idiosyncratic. His images became flat without no volume behind them, his lines had no more weight, and he mostly abandoned the use of screentones. Ever since the Pickled Sasuke arc, maybe even earlier, Kishimoto's art has been in decline (the same can be said about his writing, but that's another story). To be fair, his recent Akimoto Osamu tribute looked much more like his earlier style, so maybe he hasn't lost everything that made him good.

Oda obviously had Toriyama Akira as his art foundation, and many, many more influences since then, but none of them changed his natural progression as an artist as drastically as Nishio did with Kishimoto. In the last years, Oda's art has become more dense than before - now his page layout has more panels, and his panels are full of characters. Such change might not be to everyone's taste, but with the growth of the world and the cast, it is how Oda naturally tried to adapt as an artist and not drop the pace of his story as a writer.

Very good post. If I can criticize Oda for anything is that his art can get really clustered nowadays when he tries to input too much per panel and his battle choreography got considerably worse since it reached its peak with Water 7 which would explain why he just outright skips battles not involving Luffy nowadays. Kishi did take too much from Nishio and his art lost all what made it so appealing in the beginning and this is a common habit of many artist (Ohkubo with Soul Eater, Kubo with Bleach etc.).

 

[Heiji]

Early toc this week?

No like always.

 

[Franz]

Instead I find the first designs of Kishimoto very unripe and unclean.

I prefer a lot more those of the part from then on, both in the characters and in the environments.

 

[Nakura]

Viz's podcast was a good listen today. It was an interview with former EiCs Sasaki, Heishi, and the current EiC, Nakano. It's nothing super in depth for the most part, but I would recommend it. I made a transcript of the questions and answers for anyone who doesn't listen to the podcast at all. Some of it is paraphrased.

What exactly does a Shonen Jump EiC do all day?

Nakano: Not that much; just being at his desk is a main part of the job. The amount of work that goes into making a magazine is kind of like an upside-down triangle, where the editors do the most work, and then next the Deputy EiC does a little less work than the editors, and the EiC does the least.

Heishi: But the nightlife there is busy.

Nakano: The editors do all the work, and then the EiC bears the responsibility.

Sasaki: Yes, that's what we get paid for. Responsibility is the key.

What is the average length of time that an EiC is expected to remain in that roll?

Sasaki: Seriously speaking, the life-expectancy of the editors are not that long. It used to be, because being an editor is a harsh job. They work hard, and have an untidy way of life.(the original wording of the question was 'life-expectancy of the EiC')

3 years maybe?(back on topic)

Heishi: I was 6 years.

Nakano: 6 months so far. I miss being Deputy EiC.

Why is that? Is it a more fun job?

Nakano: Doing the actual work is more fun. I enjoy meeting with the mangaka, and working on the pages, etc.

I guess you could always mess up on purpose to get demoted.

Nakano: (laughs) If I mess up, then the whole magazine messes up, so that's not good.

What's it like having all that power and glory, being an EiC?

Nakano: There is none. The readers are the most powerful because the readers decide if a manga is interesting or not. The mangaka and the editors make the manga, but the readers are the most powerful.

For the folks who don't know, the readers fill out a survey every week and mail it in, and that has a large part in deciding if a manga survives or not.

How much of the job is stress, and how much of it is fun?

Nakano: Its all stress. (laughs) But when the magazine sells, and you see the reactions to the stories that you put out, then that's fun.

Heishi: There is a lot less email when you aren't EiC anymore.

Nakano: For an editor and the mangaka, when they work together and succeed, it's very fun, but it's very stressful if it doesn't work out.

Sasaki: The EiC loses both that stress and joy, so it's another kind of stress.

If you had to boil a great manga down to just three ingredients, what would they be?

Nakano: Characters. Story. Art.

Heishi: Just characters. It's all about the characters.

Sasaki: I agree. Characters, characters, and characters.

Nakano: That's not fair!

Sasaki: An editor can help the mangaka construct a story, but they have to come up with the characters themselves. That's why I think the characters are the most important, because that's what we can't help with. In that sense, art is also what we can't help with. The mangaka are super good at it anyway.

What do you think the future of manga is?

Nakano: I personally don't know what the future of manga is going to be, but there is digital, and it's going to develop and change. It's not like manga is going to change all of a sudden, but it's going to continually develop and change.

Heishi: It has always been changing. Manga used to be for kids, but has also become more for older kids and grown ups.

Sasaki: Boys used to not read Shojo manga, and girls used to not read Shonen manga. However, now both read both types of manga. So that's how manga is so flexible, and keeps changing.

Is that because Shonen manga is less 'tough guy' now?

Sasaki: Not really. Shonen manga is Shonen manga, but it's just become easier for either side to declare that they like the other type of manga.

If you were in the schoolyard reading Shojo manga, would you get beat up?

Sasaki: Thats exactly what happened.

To you?

Sasaki: I was a tough guy so I never read Shojo manga(laughs). However, I wish I had read Shojo manga in those days, because there was so much good Shojo manga in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

What do you think the future of manga is, Heishi-san?

Heishi: I feel very similarly in that while it has gone from paper to digital, the manga itself doesn't change because of it.

Sasaki: The perfect manga is the future of manga is what he said.

What about you?

Sasaki: The future of manga is an international market. It used to be that the manga was only made for the Japanese readers. The population of Japan is declining, and in order to keep the manga going, we need readers. And in order to get readers, we need to explore an international market.

Manga is popular the world wide, including the US. Why do you think it has such a global appeal, over something such as French comics, as an example.

Nakano: I'm not so certain about French comics, but speed and timing, particularly with the weekly pace of Shonen manga.

Sasaki: Particularly the pace and the quantity with a weekly release keeps the readers excited.

Nakano: For example, with film and movies, they don't come out week after week, after week.(I think he's referring to franchises)

Heishi: Manga has a history of being created for kids, so it is easy to understand and digest. Something that everyone can enjoy.

Personally, do you think that black and white comics look better than colour?

Nakano: If you just look at one piece of art, then maybe colour is better, but the negative of that is how long it takes. Another negative is that putting that into a book is less affordable for people.

Sasaki: Personally, the colour manga is too much for me. I think the black and white is more readable.

Despite anime, TV, video games, cellphones... people still like to read manga or comics in general. What is it about that medium that keeps people engaged despite the competition?

Nakano: With manga, one person can create the whole thing. I think it has something to do with that. One person can think of a story, draw it, create the script, and the flow. The mangaka can insert their own philosophy into the manga.

Sasaki: I totally agree.

So it's one person's vision.

Heishi: Manga is really easy to read. You can start and stop whenever you want to, and that's not as easy with maybe anime or video games.

Weekly Shonen Jump manga is the most popular manga in the world. What is the secret to its success?

Nakano: It's difficult to say with your own magazine, but the competitiveness of the manga within the magazine is part of it since if it's not good, it can be cut pretty quickly. Week after week, the mangaka are fighting to create something that is interesting to the reader, and different mangaka are fighting for a spot in the magazine. That harsh competition is what makes it great. It's also not just the mangaka. The editors also feel the same thing. It's not as if an editor who gets more of their manga in the magazine gets a higher pay. They still fight for their lives to get the series in the magazine.

Sasaki: It's very fierce competition, but its healthy competition, and fair too.

Heishi: From the other perspective, Shonen Jump emphasises what the readers want.

Is Shonen Jump unique in that system, or do other magazines do something similar?

Nakano: We're not so sure about other magazines, but that's how Shonen Jump started, and that culture is a part of what Shonen Jump is.

If aliens landed on the top of the Shonen Jump building in Japan and said "We want manga to be popular on our planet, but our spaceship is tiny so we can only bring back a few.", what manga would you give them, and why?

Nakano: One Piece. It's the best selling manga in Japan and in the world, so that would probably be popular. But there are so many volumes that maybe that spaceship may not be able to take-off(laughs).

Heishi: The most recent issue of Shonen Jump.

Sasaki: Thats my answer too, so that the aliens have to come back for the next issue(laughs).

Nakano: The mangaka work hard every week to make it better, so the most recent issue is always going to be the best.

 

[Tanzo]

All drawings from Jump Festa 2018

Jump+

Clearer pictures for some of them:

Spoiler

 

[shoyoboyo]

In that sense, art is also what we can't help with. The mangaka are super good at it anyway.

*looks at Full Drive*
r-right

 

[Mammo]

Hagiwara did some sketch? is he still going on about redrawing his entire manga from ch 1?

I thought he and Jump moved away from each other and they forgot about him

2018 the year Bastards return?

 

[De La Croissant]

If aliens landed on the top of the Shonen Jump building in Japan and said "We want manga to be popular on our planet, but our spaceship is tiny so we can only bring back a few.", what manga would you give them, and why?

Nakano: One Piece. But... wait, One Piece has too many volumes and-

Heishi: The most recent issue of Shonen Jump.

Sasaki: Thats my answer too, so that the aliens have to come back for the next issue.

Nakano: Y-yeah, the most recent issue is always going to be the best.

NAKANO IS A HACK!

 

[ChocoBar9]

Hagi you bastard! You haven't lifted a finger for 5 years and yet you have time to give us the only new Bastard related art since then?

Hagiwara did some sketch? is he still going on about redrawing his entire manga from ch 1?

I thought he and Jump moved away from each other and they forgot about him

2018 the year Bastards return?

He gave up after two volumes. The revised edition of Bastard is still the exact same as the regular edition outside the first two volumes. Now he's struggling to go back to the aborted arc that connects the manga after the battle with the Angels in volume 18 where he was trapped in Hell to the 4 year timeskip from volume 19 onward which he stopped updating in 2011.

 

[puppeto4]

All drawings from Jump Festa 2018

Jump+

Clearer pictures for some of them:

Spoiler

No World Trigger spotted. I guess I should abandon any hope for it to ever come back

 

[Doughboy]

That Viz interview is too true all around. This was a topic of a previous conversation a few pages back and I'm glad they see it the same way. Doesn't matter if the premise is interesting or if the author has "good writing" (whatever the definition of that is nowadays), no one would care or give a fuck about the story's developments if the characters aren't even mildly entertaining. Even in fantasy settings where things can be unrealistic there has to be something within a character that draws you in and you become attached to them.

People have predetermined personalities they're fond of, that by seeing a character that matches up with what you like it's common they would immediately be enamored by it. I think a sign of a good character is one that's not your usual like or one you're not fond of becoming one you enjoy. Vegeta is a good example, his character isn't supposed to be likeable from a viewer's perspective but what he's done for the story and how he developed within himself is what every character should strive for.

 

[Mammo]

He gave up after two volumes. The revised edition of Bastard is still the exact same as the regular edition outside the first two volumes. .

how is it that nobody in stopped him from doing that in the first place is beyond me
it's so obviously a horrible horrible idea


and speaking of insane authors....

[/spoiler]

this is the new manga from Enigma author in Jump Plus, and it's an anomaly

Jump stopped publishing paper volumes for it after 3 volumes because it didn't sell well and it wasn't popular at all

it became a digital volumes only ever since but judging by the amount of reviews and ratings online it still doesn't sell very well

and yet the mangaka refuses to let it die and it's still going and she updates it weekly and now reached 9 volumes (longer than Enigma)

all of this just leave me asking why? what's the point of working on a dead manga?

 

[shoyoboyo]

Passion project I would think. The large majority of manga probably sell at or below that level of sales yet they still keep going. I'd like to think that even if One Piece suddenly dropped to 10k in sales, Oda would still do it out of love.

 

[ChocoBar9]

how is it that nobody in stopped him from doing that in the first place is beyond me
it's so obviously a horrible horrible idea

Its...commendable mainly because the original Bastard was filled with art errors, unfinished panels and lost story arcs that came about while it was running in Jump its just too bad that the only thing he did was just add more porn to it and showing off that he discovered CG while on his many breaks. 2018 will be Bastard's 30th anniversary so lets hope he at least does something next year for it.