Games Mafia Game 60 - Ace Attorney - END GAME

[James Rye]

Two prosecutors? Nice! Makes sense though given the whole two-and-two thing though we have yet to see a 2nd doc. And it is weird that the Mafia hasn't called that role yet and then just act as naive doc for a while.

So desin couldn't be the killer, Bel can't be the killer due pirate role and Van has through Aizen proven that his action was towards Gryf. So either Van is unlucky apprentice or Mafia Scum perhaps even mafia boss (though I have a feeling that's not the case due only insane dets being in the game). Anyway the more roles and townies are getting proven the better. I will probably die tonight if Lambu fails to block the killer but there aren't that many unproven players left so it should be easy to win this game for us townies.

 

[Lambu]

Two prosecutors? Nice! Makes sense though given the whole two-and-two thing though we have yet to see a 2nd doc. And it is weird that the Mafia hasn't called that role yet and then just act as naive doc for a while.

So desin couldn't be the killer, Bel can't be the killer due pirate role and Van has through Aizen proven that his action was towards Gryf. So either Van is unlucky apprentice or Mafia Scum perhaps even mafia boss (though I have a feeling that's not the case due only insane dets being in the game). Anyway the more roles and townies are getting proven the better. I will probably die tonight if Lambu fails to block the killer but there aren't that many unproven players left so it should be easy to win this game for us townies.

No James, if desin doesn't show Mafia then I know who to block tonight. You know, I start to think Vandred might be an unlucky apprentice too.

Lets think carefully about the situation in the lapse of time Night 3 - Day 4 - Night 4. Assuming there's only 3 - 3 members in each Mafia.

• I blocked Vandred N3, therefore he could only be the killer if Red Mafia had another Poisoner (virtually impossible) or if Vandred was the Strongman of his Mafia. Since Lady Pompom (Mafia Escort) was killed on N2, according to Erin's and Demon's investigation, then Holt wasn't the killer of Pompom (she would have been "Janitorized").
• Therefore: If Vandred is the culprit then he killed on N2 aswell, so he would have wasted his hypothetical Strongman ability that night. Therefore I really blocked him on N3. This is even more obvious if we remember that he knew he was blocked before I said so in the following day.
• On D4, Gryffindor (confirmed Insane Detective) showed that both Holt and Belserion were Guilty. Then Belserion claimed to be a Pirate that stole Arjuna's role (Noble) and proved to be it by anonymously voting Demon. That could only mean Belserion is a Traitor waiting to be recruited by Red Mafia, therefore she must be lynched. She just cannot be the one who killed Gryffindor N4, its physically impossible.
• When Holt was revealed to be Mafia Janitor that could only clear that Vandred wasn't his mafia pal, that is if we assume there's 3-3 mafias of course, and I would rather believe that in sights of the results (or else Mafia side would be overpowered). Since Vandred was certainly blocked by me, then Holt should have been the one to kill, but Crescent's role wasn't hidden. This is why I didn't block Vandred last night and opted for desin, since he was the next one in my blocking list after Erin (since she died, then there was no other try).

This can only mean two things: If desin is not the last Red Mafia then, either Vandred trolled me real hard somehow or the culprit is someone else: Farfalla

I will block her tonight, @Aizen you can spy on me to prove me if you want to.

 

[Vandred]

I'd agree with this list but I'd move Marma down with us. Even though it seems she could prove it, she either didn't want to yet or is unable to as well, like the other white ones. She's either postponing her action (since she saw your posts to use her ability alrdy) or just won't, cause can't.

I was going off the assumption she could prove it. Turns out she can, thankfully.

I'm betting on the first option, I'd be waiting for Lambu as well 'cause why not, although he won't be super useful (except for the case I'll mention next, imo). If he blocked you again, there's still the possibility of you being a Strongman (since all the mafias had roles so far). Not pointing fingers, just trying to map all the options, cause in the end you did target Gryff, as Aizen confirmed, and having you antecipating it instead of lying about it wouldn't make you less mafia, since you'd know that lying could bem your doom, specially after how people discussed who they should block/spy on/investigate. Lambu said the dets should check you (and, well, one is gone now) and that he could block you (reason to use the Strongman ability if you're it, specially after all the mafia failures) so coming ahead the Spy as well could be simply a careful mafia move as well. After the case with Daws killing the Investigator in his first try, I'd rather consider everything, lmao.

Yeah, pretty much what I told Aizen earlier.

I also think that, since Bel has to be the Mafia Pirate (unless I'm forgetting any other possibility that could include her anon vote episode) and thus can't kill, maybe she shouldn't be a priority today. I'll say maybe again 'cause of you, Van D: Best scenario, she's the only mafia left, on the red side. But they could be 4 each to compensate the casualties they could cause to each other in that 21-24 members = 6 mafias reference, since it also looks like we have not TP (although it's not impossible yet). I don't recall you giving a reason why you stopped following Crescent and moved to Bel. You believed Crescent was the Prosecutor, you had it in your list (that you were committed to filling at first, even mentioned you spent one night phase getting it complete once, and then dropped it), said you moved to Bel cause you wanted a cool role, but in theory you had that in Crescent alrdy. So maybe you never went for Crescent, focused Bel for 2 nights (N1 and N2), became mafia/unskilled (you said yourself you were pretty sure you were insane as well, maybe another antecipation to something), in spite of Lambu blocking you on N3, and could have performed the killing on Gryff since Bel couldn't. Of course, for that, Lambu's result is super important, cause if he blocked you today again, then this scenario is impossible. But until then, there could be 4 mafias out there and you asking for Marma to shoot someone to test them (and in that part you ruled yourself out from her options and just added yourself back to it when discussing lynchings, which, by then, could be too late if there are 4 mafias around, since they would alrdy tie with the town if Marma's shot would hit a townie) could be some rushing, specially since you didn't ask her to wait for Lambu.

I would have agreed that Bel isn't a concern before Marmalade turned out being Prosecutor, but if desin is Freeman (yes, it's precisely what I suspected) and Marmalade dies, the mafia could hit desin and another townie in the two consecutive nights, and Bel would remain as a double-voting scum. We'd get very close to the risk of losing the game.

I initially followed Crescent due to her hint, then, you might have noticed that I only kept asking her and Bel if they had used their actions in the previous nights; Crescent said yes on D2 and Bel said no, so I switched to the one claiming "most useful role ever". Even though she then said she had used her role on N2, I couldn't (and didn't want to) delay any longer and kept following her on N3 in order to have something to claim on D4, but I got blocked.

About the list, aside from the fact that there were three of us making lists at that point, I dropped it after completing the overview of D1 claims, which is what I said I find most useful since the start (which got proven to be true, by the way).

Lastly, I honestly think it's impossible that there are four mafia members around, so I'm not sure where that hypothesis comes from, but if it helps the town I'm okay with getting lynched at this point. Just as long as they lynch you next, and you target Lambu if you're really Vengeful Townie. None of that crap about not sending the killing PM, please.

 

[GrySun]

The court acknowledges and accepts Klavier Gavin/MarmaladeSky‘s case against Kay Faraday/desin24, their alignments will be revealed at the end of this Trial.

 

[Farfalla]

If Belserion proves she's still townie by doing what I asked her

Ah, c'mon, Lambu, you did:

I never said Bel is not guilty, dont twist my words

Will we resort to semantics now? It's the same thing.
And there would have been no reason for this argument if your main point was that she can't be the killer, everybody said the same alrdy cause of the Mafia Pirate. That was never the point. This whole discussion is too silly anyway...

Backreading now.

 

[Lambu]

Ah, c'mon, Lambu, you did:

Will we resort to semantics now? It's the same thing.
And there would have been no reason for this argument if your main point was that she can't be the killer, everybody said the same alrdy cause of the Mafia Pirate. That was never the point. This whole discussion is too silly anyway...

Backreading now.

Thats why I said this:

I should have put that into " "

I think she's either Mafia Pirate or a Pirate Traitor, therefore Gryff got guilty on her.
What I mean is Belserion couldnt kill Gryff last night unless she was recruited the night before this, and we know yesterday she was noble.

the " " for "townie" : what I meant with that is she is not a Mafia Member if she for example was recruited.

 

[Farfalla]

No James, if desin doesn't show Mafia then I know who to block tonight. You know, I start to think Vandred might be an unlucky apprentice too.

Lets think carefully about the situation in the lapse of time Night 3 - Day 4 - Night 4. Assuming there's only 3 - 3 members in each Mafia.

• I blocked Vandred N3, therefore he could only be the killer if Red Mafia had another Poisoner (virtually impossible) or if Vandred was the Strongman of his Mafia. Since Lady Pompom (Mafia Escort) was killed on N2, according to Erin's and Demon's investigation, then Holt wasn't the killer of Pompom (she would have been "Janitorized").
• Therefore: If Vandred is the culprit then he killed on N2 aswell, so he would have wasted his hypothetical Strongman ability that night. Therefore I really blocked him on N3. This is even more obvious if we remember that he knew he was blocked before I said so in the following day.
• On D4, Gryffindor (confirmed Insane Detective) showed that both Holt and Belserion were Guilty. Then Belserion claimed to be a Pirate that stole Arjuna's role (Noble) and proved to be it by anonymously voting Demon. That could only mean Belserion is a Traitor waiting to be recruited by Red Mafia, therefore she must be lynched. She just cannot be the one who killed Gryffindor N4, its physically impossible.
• When Holt was revealed to be Mafia Janitor that could only clear that Vandred wasn't his mafia pal, that is if we assume there's 3-3 mafias of course, and I would rather believe that in sights of the results (or else Mafia side would be overpowered). Since Vandred was certainly blocked by me, then Holt should have been the one to kill, but Crescent's role wasn't hidden. This is why I didn't block Vandred last night and opted for desin, since he was the next one in my blocking list after Erin (since she died, then there was no other try).

This can only mean two things: If desin is not the last Red Mafia then, either Vandred trolled me real hard somehow or the culprit is someone else: Farfalla

I will block her tonight, @Aizen you can spy on me to prove me if you want to.

Did you read my posts in this Day? XD
You're ignoring the possibility of Vand not starting as mafia, and joining them, as an Apprentice. He said he started to follow Bel on N2 and that you blocked him on N3. Why would you believe that 100%? He could be on her since N1. But suit yourself, I said it alrdy, if Desin isn't a freeman, it's numerically impossible for the mafia to beat the rest. With Bel, that makes it 6 dead mafias + Desin, if he's one. Even if Vand is mafia it doesn't matter, with less options for who can be it and you and James combined, this game is done.
But yeah, if Desin is a townie, then Vand is mafia imo, or you who knows... with your partial view and twisted words...

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---

I initially followed Crescent due to her hint, then, you might have noticed that I only kept asking her and Bel if they had used their actions in the previous nights; Crescent said yes on D2 and Bel said no, so I switched to the one claiming "most useful role ever".

Yes, that's a good enough explanation and makes sense.

Lastly, I honestly think it's impossible that there are four mafia members around, so I'm not sure where that hypothesis comes from

The hypothesis was a possbility if:
- Each mafia had/has 4 people (5 down, 3 from one side, 2 from the other, so 3 remaning);
- Bel isn't lynched today;
- Desin doesn't die as mafia today;
- You were/are Insane and joined one in the past.
Then you get to 4. Not impossible.
That's one of the reasons why I say: let's lynch Bel.
Tomorrow we bite ourselves to death on the rest.

 

[Lambu]

Did you read my posts in this Day? XD
You're ignoring the possibility of Vand not starting as mafia, and joining them, as an Apprentice. He said he started to follow Bel on N2 and that you blocked him on N3. Why would you believe that 100%? He could be on her since N1. But suit yourself, I said it alrdy, if Desin isn't a freeman, it's numerically impossible for the mafia to beat the rest. With Bel, that makes it 6 dead mafias + Desin, if he's one. Even if Vand is mafia it doesn't matter, with less options for who can be it and you and James combined, this game is done.
But yeah, if Desin is a townie, then Vand is mafia imo, or you who knows... with your partial view and twisted words...

No, if Vandred was an Apprentice that got recruited as an Unskilled Mafia Member then he couldn't be the culprit on N3, I blocked him.
Did you read it carefully? I think its perfectly rational.

 

[Farfalla]

what I meant with that is she is not a Mafia Member if she for example was recruited.

v

Naive Traitor (Townie): (...) He is also told that he can only win with the Mafia and that he can be recruited by them. However the Mafia can't recruit him(unless his primary role allows it) and his win condition depends on his primary role.

She would have to be a Sleeper Pirate Naive Traitor for that.
Now can we drop this topic? @.@ It's just derailing the game.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---

No, if Vandred was an Apprentice that got recruited as an Unskilled Mafia Member then he couldn't be the culprit on N3, I blocked him.
Did you read it carefully? I think its perfectly rational.

But the Red Mafia could be the one behind Crescent's death and the Orange one simply failed to kill, Lambu... with or without Vand, this still proves nothing...

 

[Lambu]

^ Why are you quoting the Naive Traitor definition? If she's Traitor she's a real one, Gryffs result wouldn't make sense otherwise.

But the Red Mafia could be the one behind Crescent's death and the Orange one simply failed to kill, Lambu... with or without Vand, this still proves nothing...

I think it proves a lot if desin shows townie, then it will be confirmed there's only 3 members and each mafia and you would be exposed.

Seriously, @Aizen Spy on me tonight and prove my move.

 

[Belserion]

I can't believe you all would try to lynch me with so little evidence. I've proven my Pirate claim and I was even right about Holt. I'm not mafia!


Is what I would say if I actually thought I could get away with it. And I would have for a little bit longer if Gryff hadn't ruined everything

Anyway since denial is pointless at this time lets see.......

My take is Bel is from Red faction.

The quarrel with Holt was a coverup.

100% completely wrong. You're not even a little bit right. The only "gut feeling" I had about Holt was that he was either Doctor or Mortician. He was so quiet I just thought I could amuse myself with him especially since I knew Daws was the Janitor. For some reason it didn't occur to me that there could be two. Oh well. Lucky strike.

Yeah, I just think Bel couldnt make the kill, if she's M.Pirate then she's powerless and if she's Pirate then she should have been recruited as a traitor N3.

Lets try what Demon did yesterday

@Belserion prove me you are still a Pirate that stole Arjuna's role.

I'm exactly what you think I am. I don't have a killing role. It's why I went all "notice me senpai" on that third day when I saw suspicion mounting on Daws. I was trying to deflect attention from him and I was going to do the whole "lynch Holt and if he's not mafia you can lynch me the next day" play but it was even better when Arjuna suggested it and I latched on. That would have gotten Daws at least two more days if he wasn't night killed, but you all still lynched him. Bad enough someone got sweet Pom Pom the night before And we had a plan too. It's the only reason I even bothered to steal Arjuna's pointless role (since I saw some speculation on this). But if you still want me to prove my role I'll do it. It's nothing to me at this point. And honestly if my team can't eradicate this town then I'd much prefer for you guys to win. It's a matter of pride And if the mafia numbers are equal then you have two more reds among you.

 

[Lambu]

I can't believe you all would try to lynch me with so little evidence. I've proven my Pirate claim and I was even right about Holt. I'm not mafia!


Is what I would say if I actually thought I could get away with it. And I would have for a little bit longer if Gryff hadn't ruined everything

Anyway since denial is pointless at this time lets see.......



100% completely wrong. You're not even a little bit right. The only "gut feeling" I had about Holt was that he was either Doctor or Mortician. He was so quiet I just thought I could amuse myself with him especially since I knew Daws was the Janitor. For some reason it didn't occur to me that there could be two. Oh well. Lucky strike.


I'm exactly what you think I am. I don't have a killing role. It's why I went all "notice me senpai" on that third day when I saw suspicion mounting on Daws. I was trying to deflect attention from him and I was going to do the whole "lynch Holt and if he's not mafia you can lynch me the next day" play but it was even better when Arjuna suggested it and I latched on. That would have gotten Daws at least two more days if he wasn't night killed, but you all still lynched him. Bad enough someone got sweet Pom Pom the night before And we had a plan too. It's the only reason I even bothered to steal Arjuna's pointless role (since I saw some speculation on this). But if you still want me to prove my role I'll do it. It's nothing to me at this point. And honestly if my team can't eradicate this town then I'd much prefer for you guys to win. It's a matter of pride And if the mafia numbers are equal then you have two more reds among you.

Thank you Bel, this helps a lot, you did great.

Is Farfalla the remaining one? I just want to get this over with.

 

[Vandred]

Lambu, even if you're Escort, I'll never thank you enough for that block on Night Three. You prevented me from possibly joining the filthy Oranges. I... You're truly an original VandRed at heart...!

Too bad Bel's first mafia experience was as a debased citrus. With Daws and Pompom, to boot

Alright then, that seals it for me. I'll believe Lambu until the end even if he's with the reds. It's between Faffs and desin now.

 

[Farfalla]

But you said you wanted her to prove she's still a townie :/ you're giving me a headache...

In spite of what you are, if you'd just admit your case has holes, specially when you rely on "ifs" then I'll be fine alrdy lmao

It's convenient for you to paint me now with that, since Desin will only be confirmed as townie or not at the end of the day. Jesus, you go berserker when you're being stubborn.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---

Alright then, that seals it for me. I'll believe Lambu until the end even if he's with the reds. It's between Faffs and desin now.

Yeah, simply cause I have no action to use on you at night xDD

I just get butthurt on people overlooking things '-' but again, it won't matter for the game so if any of you is lying, take your time to struggle some more after the other ones check on me.

 

[Lambu]

Lambu, even if you're Escort, I'll never thank you enough for that block on Night Three. You prevented me from possibly joining the filthy Oranges. I... You're truly an original VandRed at heart...!

Too bad Bel's first mafia experience was as a debased citrus. With Daws and Pompom, to boot

Alright then, that seals it for me. I'll believe Lambu until the end even if he's with the reds. It's between Faffs and desin now.

Lol right? Bel as last orange clears everything. and that makes desin and Farfalla the last ones.

Everyone willing to lynch Farf over Belserion? Bel is pretty much useless at this point, I would rather have her being the last Mafia standing since she cannot kill.

 

[Farfalla]

I am o/ but I'll kill you instead of nobody after this, since you went from "if Desin is mafia it clears Van" to "if he isn't fuck it I'll stick to him as well cause 'Farf hit a nerve'". For a máfia that doesnt mind playing an extra day that works well I guess. If that's not it, then bros before hoes it is for one of you.

 

[Belserion]

Thank you Bel, this helps a lot, you did great.

Is Farfalla the remaining one? I just want to get this over with.

Honestly I don't know. I'm the last orange and I thought she was townie since I hold her responsible for evil getting lynched and she was one of the first to point at Daws, but then again that proves nothing since they were orange and looking at this list Van made:

Alright, so I guess our current lineup is this:

@James Rye - Detective
@Arjuna - Noble, now Regular Townie
@Lambu - Prostitute
@Aizen - Spy
@MarmaladeSky - DTV or Politician
@Belserion - Mafia/Traitor Pirate, now Noble
@Vandred - Apprentice
@Farfalla - Vengeful Townie
@desin24 - passive role

Marmalade is prosecutor confirmed. As are all the other roles in green. You've proven your prostitute claim and you've been MVP of the game imo so if I had to choose between you and Farfalla I would be more inclined to trust you since like I said, and we've all seen, your actions have backed you up. So that leaves Desin, Van and Farfalla and since Desin is marked for possible death the remaining red would be between those 2 if he's proven to be mafia.

 

[Lambu]

I am o/ but I'll kill you instead of nobody after this, since you went from "if Desin is mafia it clears Van" to "if he isn't fuck it I'll stick to him as well cause 'Farf hit a nerve'". For a máfia that doesnt mind playing an extra day that works well I guess. If that's not it, then bros before hoes it is for one of you.

You can do as you please, if you really are the Vengeful townie then either kill me or Vandred, since if its confirmed there's 4-4 mafias then he's again not clear, but even if you choose wrong and kill me then the remaining townies would have to just lynch Vandred the next day and town wins.

 

[Farfalla]

Well, Lambu used an elimination process to get to me and Van if there's one more máfia but then he used an incomplete case to pick Van over me and won't even admit that's due to bias o.o But if that works for him in case he's a red mafia with Desin, I'll say it again: you alrdy lost, Lambu. And if Bel is the last one then at least you guys brotherhood is cute xD

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---

Oh cool, so 2 more left indeed, hopefully one is Desin, otherwise, I get Van AND Lambu's play now xD Kill the Freeman and for for the 2 sequel nights.
Well, that's indeed a problem... will have to swallow the victory early claims in that case, lol...................

 

[Vandred]

No, Bel has to die today. If she's really the last Orange, we can't risk her teaming up with the two remaining Apples for a total of four votes tomorrow. Votekill Belserion.