Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Koi Kage]

If Asta can willingly use a demons power and transform he has a demon power. It is what it is

He cann't willingly enter his black mode without the aid of one of his swords so take away the grimoire he has nothing

 

[Franz]

A MC who was believed to never amount to anything just like Asta proves people wrong by gaining series breaking power, because plot, and joins *insert* group to help people again like Asta has seen magic shadows related to the power, think Bijuu, same as Asta, and to cap it off teacher for lack of a better wording is dead again just like Asta now doesn't that sound like naruto? Also Asta himself doesn't have demon powers he cannot use them on his own the powers come from his grimoire take that away and he's got nothing unlike Naruto who can still preform jutsu even without Kurama

If Asta can willingly use a demons power and transform he has a demon power. It is what it is

He cann't willingly enter his black mode without the aid of one of his swords so take away the grimoire he has nothing

You too, if you want to talk about it, use the section on the manga.

 

[MangAniMY]

I mean take anyone's grimoire, and they would be left with nothing, (as far as we know)

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---

In other news.

there are no news...

when are we getting scans?
I actually can't wait for any Hinomaru anime news and next week preview

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

So I just went through all TOCs since Haikyuu was first ranked until August last year when they started ranking it lower. It was last place one single time back in 2013. And it only placed worse than 10th place two times including the one time it was last, both were back to back in 2013, I think around the 1 year anniversary. Doesn't look to me like it ever was a bottom dweller tbh.

From 2015 to August 2017, it usually ranked top 5 probably 70-80% of the time. Around August 2017, both MHA and Haikyuu suddenly started ranking lower. What happened in August 2017? Shounen Jump got a new editor-in-chief. Problem solved.

About what you labeled as "quality chapter". I said "the more well a new series does, the higher it ranks". That has got nothing to do with how good the quality of the chapter itself is since that's subjective. If a chapter of a new manga gets a certain amount of votes, they try to push it. As BC survived, it obviously must've had a good amount of votes, otherwise it would've been cancelled by now.

I think Togashi stated recently in an interview that if your manga doesn't get a certain amount of votes, they decide to cancel it.

Ever think people just gotten sick of MHA and Haikyuu!! starting in August 2017? Problem solved. No, seriously, you said yourselves that MHA just getting a lot better again, meaning around August 2017, the story must be quite crap yeah? (If you said it is getting a lot better now then you're applying that the series quality went downhill for some times). Quality decrease > People don't enjoy it > no votes > went down in ToC placement. But yeah, let's blame it all on EiC beause why not.

*EiC did decided which series in which position in ToC but if series have significantly lower votes, I don't think he will put that series in higher placement than any series with higher votes than it (except for OP obv).

 

[Tamil]

Just give us the HZ CP. Will that be out today or tomorrow?

 

[Franz]

in other news.

there are no news...

when are we getting scans?
I actually can't wait for any Hinomaru anime news and next week preview

Here, let's talk about something else please ...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---

Ever think people just gotten sick of MHA and Haikyuu!! starting in August 2017? Problem solved. No, seriously, you said yourselves that MHA just getting a lot better again, meaning around August 2017, the story must be quite crap yeah? (If you said it is getting a lot better now then you're applying that the series quality went downhill for some times). Quality decrease > People don't enjoy it > no votes > went down in ToC placement. But yeah, let's blame it all on EiC beause why not.

Look, if you have complaints about the series of flaws in the appropriate section. I doubt that the manga is in decline anyway ...

 

[Scruffy8642]

What trap do you feel like all these canceled adventures have done that My Hero and BC avoided? I agree with what you said but I’m honestly curious. I didn’t think MHA got good until Deku arrived at UA. BC I’m unsure of when the jump of enjoyment occurred for me cause I’m not sure it occurred yet.

Most important aspect I feel is character development. Just look at every series successful in Jump atm and compare how you felt for the MC after ch 1 compared to all the fodder. Generally fodder have vague, underdeveloped characters. Look at Jujutsu Kaisen for example, 2 chapters in and it doesn't feel like the author has given the MC any life, or reason for us to care for him. Compare to MHA, and the "You can be a hero" moment practically gives you shivers because we've been shown Deku's struggle and resonate with him.
Same with TPN, they introduce us to these kids and how they're all living such a great life with their siblings. It brings you into their life, and then we're hit with the surprise and it's devastating.
In BC you finish the chapter outright annoyed at Asta, but at least you know he's annoying, and you're not sitting there trying to work out what sort of character he is.
Red Sprite and Demon's Plan are examples of this done badly. After 15 or so chapters, I didn't care enough for the MCs to even know their names, let alone other characters, yet TPN, MHA & BC all accomplished that in a single chapter.
Golem Hearts on the other hand never really developed Noah enough for us to be able to care for him, and there wasn't even a particular moment that tried to make us feel for him either.
Bozebeats at least tried with the Wolf mother's death, but wasted it because the MC was underdeveloped and basically a psycho who'd done nothing at that point.

Pacing is another thing. I feel having a conclusive first chapter that builds up to a climax (unlike Jujutsu Kaisen, Golem Hearts) is extremely important for creating impact, otherwise you're just there like "wait, what? it's over?", which ruins the setup. They introduce characters and the world, present a problem (and sometimes solve it) and then leave the rest for later. I think Bozebeats actually handled this bit well.

World building - does the author properly articulate their thoughts? Golem Hearts left us with no explanation of the battle system or really anything about the series, so how are we supposed to understand and care? Noah's Notes completely explained it's concept. Jujutsu waited until chapter two, and even then it's vague. People can complain about Black Clover as much as they want, but since page 1 the series has always known exactly what it wanted to be and it went with it. The start of the series was quite solid, explaining the magic properly, societal issues (royals vs bums), the whole kingdom thing, supporting character's relationship to MC as well as both of their goals, reasons behind them, and finally, a conflict. Although the premise itself wasn't great, its solid and not vague in the slightest. Which is ironic, because premise is normally what we look for to grab our interest in a series, but if it's not executed properly, it may as well be a shit one, so I don't think it's as important as common sense leads us think.

All of this and I haven't even got into the more obvious aspects like art, premise, character personality. So while I think Noah's Notes was well written, I don't actually think the characters themselves were particularly good (but they were developed well). Though I feel like that's somewhat less important in the scheme of things (See Banba the Man & countless other great MCs from fodder who were dope, but neglected by the author). Its easier to recognise all this on some series more than others. Like I honestly dont know where I’d put Act-Age in any of this because it’s so unusual, and I feel like I can only generate a superificial opinion of “MC annoyed me so I dont like it”.
Essentially it comes down to whether the author has their shit together or not. They present a world and characters that feel alive and then hook you in with something.
Sorry for the wall, I tried to be analytical and shiz for once. I'm probably just spouting nonsense and this stuff is decided by 10 year old kids.

Well, can't wait to see Ziga. I hope it won't flop like Bozebeats

Seeing that is kinda a downer considering what happened with Bozebeats...

 

[MangAniMY]

Just give us the HZ CP. Will that be out today or tomorrow?

I can say without a doubt that it will be today for me since it is already thursday march 15 here.

 

[MangAniMY]

Most important aspect I feel is character development. Just look at every series successful in Jump atm and compare how you felt for the MC after ch 1 compared to all the fodder. Generally fodder have vague, underdeveloped characters. Look at Jujutsu Kaisen for example, 2 chapters in and it doesn't feel like the author has given the MC any life, or reason for us to care for him. Compare to MHA, and the "You can be a hero" moment practically gives you shivers because we've been shown Deku's struggle and resonate with him.
Same with TPN, they introduce us to these kids and how they're all living such a great life with their siblings. It brings you into their life, and then we're hit with the surprise and it's devastating.
In BC you finish the chapter outright annoyed at Asta, but at least you know he's annoying, and you're not sitting there trying to work out what sort of character he is.
Red Sprite and Demon's Plan are examples of this done badly. After 15 or so chapters, I didn't care enough for the MCs to even know their names, let alone other characters, yet TPN, MHA & BC all accomplished that in a single chapter.
Golem Hearts on the other hand never really developed Noah enough for us to be able to care for him, and there wasn't even a particular moment that tried to make us feel for him either.
Bozebeats at least tried with the Wolf mother's death, but wasted it because the MC was underdeveloped and basically a psycho who'd done nothing at that point.

Pacing is another thing. I feel having a conclusive first chapter that builds up to a climax (unlike Jujutsu Kaisen, Golem Hearts) is extremely important for creating impact, otherwise you're just there like "wait, what? it's over?", which ruins the setup. They introduce characters and the world, present a problem (and sometimes solve it) and then leave the rest for later. I think Bozebeats actually handled this bit well.

World building - does the author properly articulate their thoughts? Golem Hearts left us with no explanation of the battle system or really anything about the series, so how are we supposed to understand and care? Noah's Notes completely explained it's concept. Jujutsu waited until chapter two, and even then it's vague. People can complain about Black Clover as much as they want, but since page 1 the series has always known exactly what it wanted to be and it went with it. The start of the series was quite solid, explaining the magic properly, societal issues (royals vs bums), the whole kingdom thing, supporting character's relationship to MC as well as both of their goals, reasons behind them, and finally, a conflict. Although the premise itself wasn't great, its solid and not vague in the slightest. Which is ironic, because premise is normally what we look for to grab our interest in a series, but if it's not executed properly, it may as well be a shit one, so I don't think it's as important as common sense leads us think.

All of this and I haven't even got into the more obvious aspects like art, premise, character personality. So while I think Noah's Notes was well written, I don't actually think the characters themselves were particularly good (but they were developed well). Though I feel like that's somewhat less important in the scheme of things (See Banba the Man & countless other great MCs from fodder who were dope, but neglected by the author).
Essentially it comes down to whether the author has their shit together or not. They present a world and characters that feel alive and then hook you in with something.
Sorry for the wall, I tried to be analytical and shiz for once. I'm probably just spouting nonsense and this stuff is decided by 10 year old kids.

Seeing that is kinda a downer considering what happened with Bozebeats...

at least the 1st chapter would be on par with boze and a group could pick it up.


edit: is this a miracle? my post is not merged?

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

Here, let's talk about something else please ...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---

Look, if you have complaints about the series of flaws in the appropriate section. I doubt that the manga is in decline anyway ...

Did I said any flaws about any series? TheEnhanced and I were talking about ToC placement here...

 

[TyVip]

Told you guys any series sharkbaiy praise will most likely fail, just bet against him

Also, don’t celebrate just yet with Robo. It could be a double cancel.

 

[Franz]

Did I said any flaws about any series? TheEnhanced and I talking about ToC placement here.

What's the problem ? The fact that a TOC is low in itself does not mean anything

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

What's the problem ? The fact that a TOC is low in itself does not mean anything

Tell that to people whom keep defending MHA every time it got placed in lower position then, not me.

 

[Doughboy]

Most important aspect I feel is character development. Just look at every series successful in Jump atm and compare how you felt for the MC after ch 1 compared to all the fodder. Generally fodder have vague, underdeveloped characters. Look at Jujutsu Kaisen for example, 2 chapters in and it doesn't feel like the author has given the MC any life, or reason for us to care for him. Compare to MHA, and the "You can be a hero" moment practically gives you shivers because we've been shown Deku's struggle and resonate with him.
Same with TPN, they introduce us to these kids and how they're all living such a great life with their siblings. It brings you into their life, and then we're hit with the surprise and it's devastating.
In BC you finish the chapter outright annoyed at Asta, but at least you know he's annoying, and you're not sitting there trying to work out what sort of character he is.
Red Sprite and Demon's Plan are examples of this done badly. After 15 or so chapters, I didn't care enough for the MCs to even know their names, let alone other characters, yet TPN, MHA & BC all accomplished that in a single chapter.
Golem Hearts on the other hand never really developed Noah enough for us to be able to care for him, and there wasn't even a particular moment that tried to make us feel for him either.
Bozebeats at least tried with the Wolf mother's death, but wasted it because the MC was underdeveloped and basically a psycho who'd done nothing at that point.

Pacing is another thing. I feel having a conclusive first chapter that builds up to a climax (unlike Jujutsu Kaisen, Golem Hearts) is extremely important for creating impact, otherwise you're just there like "wait, what? it's over?", which ruins the setup. They introduce characters and the world, present a problem (and sometimes solve it) and then leave the rest for later. I think Bozebeats actually handled this bit well.

World building - does the author properly articulate their thoughts? Golem Hearts left us with no explanation of the battle system or really anything about the series, so how are we supposed to understand and care? Noah's Notes completely explained it's concept. Jujutsu waited until chapter two, and even then it's vague. People can complain about Black Clover as much as they want, but since page 1 the series has always known exactly what it wanted to be and it went with it. The start of the series was quite solid, explaining the magic properly, societal issues (royals vs bums), the whole kingdom thing, supporting character's relationship to MC as well as both of their goals, reasons behind them, and finally, a conflict. Although the premise itself wasn't great, its solid and not vague in the slightest. Which is ironic, because premise is normally what we look for to grab our interest in a series, but if it's not executed properly, it may as well be a shit one, so I don't think it's as important as common sense leads us think.

All of this and I haven't even got into the more obvious aspects like art, premise, character personality. So while I think Noah's Notes was well written, I don't actually think the characters themselves were particularly good (but they were developed well). Though I feel like that's somewhat less important in the scheme of things (See Banba the Man & countless other great MCs from fodder who were dope, but neglected by the author). Its easier to recognise all this on some series more than others. Like I honestly dont know where I’d put Act-Age in any of this because it’s so unusual, and I feel like I can only generate a superificial opinion of “MC annoyed me so I dont like it”.
Essentially it comes down to whether the author has their shit together or not. They present a world and characters that feel alive and then hook you in with something.
Sorry for the wall, I tried to be analytical and shiz for once. I'm probably just spouting nonsense and this stuff is decided by 10 year old kids.

All good this was excellent!!! Holy shit I think I understand it a lot better now, man I’ve been wondering. I actually wouldn’t of minded Golem Hearts or Boze to survive but this gives you an idea why they failed so badly. One moreso than the other.

Rankings are slightly less relevant until every new series starts being ranked; with Hunter X Hunter, Juju, Noah's and Ziga this week we had 4 extra series without a ranking.

HxH is ranked this issue.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Ever think people just gotten sick of MHA and Haikyuu!! starting in August 2017? Problem solved. No, seriously, you said yourselves that MHA just getting a lot better again, meaning around August 2017, the story must be quite crap yeah? (If you said it is getting a lot better now then you're applying that the series quality went downhill for some times). Quality decrease > People don't enjoy it > no votes > went down in ToC placement. But yeah, let's blame it all on EiC beause why not.

*EiC did decided which series in which position in ToC but if series have significantly lower votes, I don't think he will put that series in higher placement than any series with higher votes than it (except for OP obv).

Ever think that people like you take the ToC too seriously?

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

Ever think that people like you take the ToC too seriously?

Tell this to people whom keep defending their series suddenly in lower ranking of ToC, not me.

 

[Tamil]

How many chapters has HxH been going on for since it came back?

 

[DyanSon]

8

 

[TheEnhancedExe]

Ever think people just gotten sick of MHA and Haikyuu!! starting in August 2017? Problem solved. No, seriously, you said yourselves that MHA just getting a lot better again, meaning around August 2017, the story must be quite crap yeah? (If you said it is getting a lot better now then you're applying that the series quality went downhill for some times). Quality decrease > People don't enjoy it > no votes > went down in ToC placement. But yeah, let's blame it all on EiC beause why not.

*EiC did decided which series in which position in ToC but if series have significantly lower votes, I don't think he will put that series in higher placement than any series with higher votes than it (except for OP obv).

Imo, the quality actually already went downhill back in 2016, yet it still ranked pretty high despite that. The end of the lnternship Arc was quite controversial here in the west. For example I really enjoyed it a lot, while others didn't like it. So for me the quality skyrocketed again shortly after it started getting ranked lower. It's not even like the story was ever terrible in between to begin with. For me it just went from really great to okay to really great. It's not like there was a consistent quality decrease. Even manga like One Piece have some weaker parts.

Also Haikyuu at that time was as I said in one of the biggest matches ever which had some of the best moments of the manga in recent years.

To me it looks like you're not even reading any of these two manga so I don't think you can label the reason for the lower ranks with "quality decrease" when the quality wasn't even at its lowest. For Haikyuu it was in fact way closer to its peak.

EiC change imo makes the most sense. Two people will always differ in opinion. Or do you want to tell me that it was just pure coincidence that the 2nd and 3rd highest selling manga of WSJ suddenly start ranking lower from the same issue that released about 3 weeks after the EiC change. This perfectly fits with the time it takes from the deadline of the manga chapter to the release of the issue.

Tell this to people whom keep defending their series suddenly in lower ranking of ToC, not me.

I honestly couldn't care less about the series ranking low, because I don't take the toc serious at all. Because I know that both manga aren't doing bad at all. I just can't stand people who act like the TOC is the law and everything the ranking says is set in stone.

Ever read or watched Bakuman? Then you'd probably know a lot more about what's happening behind the scenes. They never once mention the TOC even once. All they talk about there are the voting results, which they don't make public.

 

[101nemesis]

It's not a manga week without at least 3 days of BC and MHA discussions here.