Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Nemesis]

Jump editors Oonishi, Honda and Takano went on TBS radio for the 50th anniversary back in October.
https://www.tbsradio.jp/300555

I did a live tweet thread basically translating their talk:


I'd type it directly here but the talk is quite long (48 min) so this is easier to post.

That was great. What recent manga the three of them worked as editor?

 

[cody]

That was great. What recent manga the three of them worked as editor?

For Takano it was mentioned in there.

 

[Lizard_Boots]

That was great. What recent manga the three of them worked as editor?

From iceemperor's TBS page given:
Oonishi: Gintama
Honda: Dr Stone
Takano: Alice and Taiyou, Kimetsu no Yaiba
There was also a Honda who edited Gintama at one point, although this may be a different Honda. Sorachi used to like to lampoon the fact that while his past editors like Oonishi went on to bigger and better things in Jump, some poor sap like Honda had to edit Gintama instead.

 

[Mammo]

And Nakano doesn't seem to be in charge of the TOC, but Oonishi is. So everyone can stop it with the Nak the hack memes.

I coined that phrase and I never used it to talk about any series toc placements
he's a hack because of the editorial quality filter that allowed series like Momiji no kisetsu and Invade you to get a fullseries although their miniseries on Giga wasn't a success
he's a hack because these horrible campaigns: Jump Super Push, Jump Rising, Jump Revolution, Jump 4 Emperors, Jump gag era, Jump dark era, Jump shove-it-down-your-throat-campaign-of-the-week

among others questionable choices like starting 2 series in one issue, keeping SW#1 for so long...

Oonishi isn't as open for derogatory nicknames though.

you underestimate my power: Ooni the phony

 

[CrimsonEpitaph]

I coined that phrase and I never used it to talk about any series toc placements




you underestimate my power: Ooni the phony

Flawless victory

 

[Mammo]

I'm just saying Oonishi (as a name) isn't that much harder to make fun of than Nakano

I have no comment on the toc

 

[cody]

I coined that phrase and I never used it to talk about any series toc placements
he's a hack because of the editorial quality filter that allowed series like Momiji no kisetsu and Invade you to get a fullseries although their miniseries on Giga wasn't a success
he's a hack because these horrible campaigns: Jump Super Push, Jump Rising, Jump Revolution, Jump 4 Emperors, Jump gag era, Jump dark era, Jump shove-it-down-your-throat-campaign-of-the-week

among others questionable choices like starting 2 series in one issue, keeping SW#1 for so long...



you underestimate my power: Ooni the phony

I think you're giving him too much shit, considering he hasn't even had the chance to do much so far. Other things that were allowed in the past like Demon's Plan were much worse than Momiji or Invade you. Momiji and Invade you were bland and completely forgettable, but at least they weren't straight up atrocious like Demon's Plan. I wouldn't say the editorial quality filter is much worse now.

If he decided to allow Invade You and Momiji from GIGA, it means there wasn't anything else better available at the moment, other authors probably weren't ready yet.

I think he managed to do a pretty good job this year, the magazine really needed some new hits and we got two with Act-Age and Jujutsu.

I think similar name campaigns existed even before his time and I don't really see what's so bad about them. They're just brief name campaigns and they don't really hurt anyone.

 

[Franz]

I would not worry too much about the TOC. Simply the magazine is saturated and there are few rankings. Someone must end up in the bottom but take out Souma and Yuuna probably the others are there by chance

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2018 ---

People said Shokugeki was definitely in its final arc about this time last year yet it's still sticking around. Until we get an actual final arc or 'five chapters left!' announcement it could go anywhere really.

Is the final arc, by now it is clear, everything that had to be resolved has been resolved, sales are falling and the positions of the TOC as well.

Obviously it will not end overnight, but I think it's fair to say that we are at the end.

 

[Mammo]

I think you're giving him too much shit, considering he hasn't even had the chance to do much so far. Other things that were allowed in the past like Demon's Plan were much worse than Momiji or Invade you. Momiji and Invade you were bland and completely forgettable, but at least they weren't straight up atrocious like Demon's Plan. I wouldn't say the editorial quality filter is much worse now.

I'm not arguing that these 2 were bad
I'm saying they already gave them a shot at Giga and they did bad
so why did they gave them another chance? what was the point of their run in Giga if not to measure popularity?

If he decided to allow Invade You and Momiji from GIGA, it means there wasn't anything else better available at the moment, other authors probably weren't ready yet.

this isn't an excuse
they shouldn't have cancelled what was running at the moment if they didn't have something better

I think he managed to do a pretty good job this year, the magazine really needed some new hits and we got two with Act-Age and Jujutsu.

Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day
if he keeps throwing spaghetti at the wall something eventually is going to stick

I think similar name campaigns existed even before his time and I don't really see what's so bad about them. They're just brief name campaigns and they don't really hurt anyone.

I only remember one before Nak is Jump new generation in 2012 with Nisekoi, AssClass, Soma and HQ
notice how all 4 series were established and successful they didn't push an exorcist manga written by a rookie only for it to flop after 12 weeks

and I disagree about "they don't really hurt anyone" part
it hurt the series they're pushing
if they're successful people will say it's only successful because they pushed it
if they flop people will say haha it flopped despite all the pushing

 

[supercow297]

Gintama has a whole chapter making fun of Oonishi. https://gintama.fandom.com/wiki/Konishi

 

[cody]

I'm not arguing that these 2 were bad
I'm saying they already gave them a shot at Giga and they did bad
so why did they gave them another chance? what was the point of their run in Giga if not to measure popularity?

GIGA seems to be the stepping stone for a future serialization in Jump. Even if those two failed, at least the authors proved they were capable of handling a serialization.

I'm not arguing that these 2 were bad
this isn't an excuse
they shouldn't have cancelled what was running at the moment if they didn't have something better

And what did they cancel for them, Bozebeats? Not much point in letting that run for longer. Tomatoypoo moved to +. They had to fill in the slots with something.

Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day
if he keeps throwing spaghetti at the wall something eventually is going to stick

So he's doing the same thing other Editors in Chief were doing.

I only remember one before Nak is Jump new generation in 2012 with Nisekoi, AssClass, Soma and HQ
notice how all 4 series were established and successful they didn't push an exorcist manga written by a rookie only for it to flop after 12 weeks

and I disagree about "they don't really hurt anyone" part
it hurt the series they're pushing
if they're successful people will say it's only successful because they pushed it
if they flop people will say haha it flopped despite all the pushing

All I will say, 2012 was an exceptional year for Jump. New series also took off more easily back then.

I don't see how promotional campaigns hurt something. If a manga with a campaign gets axed, it's not that much different from a manga with no name campaign that gets axed, it will be quickly disposed of and chances are they didn't invest too much money into the campaign for it.

If a series is successful and people say it's only successful because of a promotional campaign, it doesn't hurt the series at all, especially in Japan where things really matter.

If a series flops, it flops, not much you can do about it. I'm sure in the past there were plenty of other promising new startups from bigger authors that heavily disappointed and flopped. (edit: it also depends what your definition of a flop would be)

 

[Mammo]

GIGA seems to be the stepping stone for a future serialization in Jump. Even if those two failed, at least the authors proved they were capable of handling a serialization.

let's assume this is true and the authors proved themselves
why did they do the exact same series? if it's an authors testing magazine couldn't this author that passed the test write something else?

And what did they cancel for them, Bozebeats? Not much point in letting that run for longer. Tomatoypoo moved to +. They had to fill in the slots with something.

again let's assume this is true, and a giant company like Shueisha somehow didn't have anything better to publish at the time
is running onesots or keeping empty slots until other authors are ready worse than re-running already failed series?
they wouldn't waste any money printing volumes for doa manga that way

So he's doing the same thing other Editors in Chief were doing.

exactly, your first post was implying that AA and JK weren't going to happen unless Nak was in charge

All I will say, 2012 was an exceptional year for Jump. New series also took off more easily back then.

I don't see how promotional campaigns hurt something. If a manga with a campaign gets axed, it's not that much different from a manga with no name campaign that gets axed, it will be quickly disposed of and chances are they didn't invest too much money into the campaign for it.

If a series is successful and people say it's only successful because of a promotional campaign, it doesn't hurt the series at all, especially in Japan where things really matter.

If a series flops, it flops, not much you can do about it. I'm sure in the past there were plenty of other promising new startups from bigger authors that heavily disappointed and flopped. (edit: it also depends what your definition of a flop would be)

a good marketing campaign doesn't hurt, this is something we can all agree on
however this isn't what we are getting
by calling everything the next big thing you're taking the risk of becoming the magazine equivalent of "the boy who cried wolf" and losing your consumers' trust

 

[cody]

let's assume this is true and the authors proved themselves
why did they do the exact same series? if it's an authors testing magazine couldn't this author that passed the test write something else?


again let's assume this is true, and a giant company like Shueisha somehow didn't have anything better to publish at the time
is running onesots or keeping empty slots until other authors are ready worse than re-running already failed series?
they wouldn't waste any money printing volumes for doa manga that way


exactly, your first post was implying that AA and JK weren't going to happen unless Nak was in charge



a good marketing campaign doesn't hurt, this is something we can all agree on
however this isn't what we are getting
by calling everything the next big thing you're taking the risk of becoming the magazine equivalent of "the boy who cried wolf" and losing your consumers' trust

Why allow the same series? Because the authors were the best prepared to make those series into full serializations. The newer trend now is to allow manga that had mini series in GIGA to have proper serializations in WSJ. It worked with Jujutsu so far, so it makes sense they will continue try doing things this way. A new attempt is Higuma.


You have to consider the following, in the serialization meetup where they decided to go with those two, there were probably a lot of other options but they simply weren't good enough. I'm sure Jump has some incredible talent which is growing, but none of it was ready at the time. I don't think they like the idea of running oneshots for 12-14 weeks, it would be an extra effort for sure.


He did have his role with Jujutsu and Act-Age. They could've been axed early on, too hastily, in hopes of getting something even better and more successful. Axing those would have been a mistake and then I would have agreed that he is a hak.


Come on, they aren't losing any trust with some name campaigns. Jump always uses all kinds of eye catching mottoes and puns to draw in reader attention. The editorial department wants all of their new manga to be successful, so they can't promote them as new big failures. (and they're not really calling everything the next big thing)

 

[Franz]

It's not really trolling if it's true.

I do not think so. It has nothing to do with the discussion and has clear intent provocate .....

Honestly I'm a BC fan but you guys have turned it into a meme already, and it's pretty annoying for everyone how often it's debated here. You guys pretty much asked for BC bring joked about with the daily "digital sales REEE" and 1000 IQ analyses. You can allow some humor once in a while

And who ever talked about digital sales?

Look who are valid for everyone. You are the one who makes comparisons every time.

Going out now with "Ahahaha, WT sells more than BC" for me is a provocation, even quite gratuitously, for me, it is not a matter of one like manga or not.

But even if it was ... what the hell would you like to say?

If you used the brain you should know that it is normal for an older manga with a better established fanbase to sell more.
They are both manga that make 200k copies by volume, 200k is more than scarce as far as I'm concerned, 200k in volume is selling a lot.

 

[Mammo]

Why allow the same series? Because the authors were the best prepared to make those series into full serializations. The newer trend now is to allow manga that had mini series in GIGA to have proper serializations in WSJ. It worked with Jujutsu so far, so it makes sense they will continue try doing things this way. A new attempt is Higuma.


You have to consider the following, in the serialization meetup where they decided to go with those two, there were probably a lot of other options but they simply weren't good enough. I'm sure Jump has some incredible talent which is growing, but none of it was ready at the time. I don't think they like the idea of running oneshots for 12-14 weeks, it would be an extra effort for sure.


He did have his role with Jujutsu and Act-Age. They could've been axed early on, too hastily, in hopes of getting something even better and more successful. Axing those would have been a mistake and then I would have agreed that he is a hak.


Come on, they aren't losing any trust with some name campaigns. Jump always uses all kinds of eye catching mottoes and puns to draw in reader attention. The editorial department wants all of their new manga to be successful, so they can't promote them as new big failures. (and they're not really calling everything the next big thing)

Jujutsu changed its name among other things from its time in Giga so I wouldn't call it the same series

I think the fans saved AA and JK not Nak, they were buried in the back soon after they started, so I'll give him credit to not ignoring the fans but not for saving these series

I know I'm not the only one that rolls his eyes up every time a new fucking campaign start

 

[CuriousReborn]

I do not think so. It has nothing to do with the discussion and has clear intent provocate .....

And who ever talked about digital sales?

Look who are valid for everyone. You are the one who makes comparisons every time.

Going out now with "Ahahaha, WT sells more than BC" for me is a provocation, even quite gratuitously, for me, it is not a matter of one like manga or not.

But even if it was ... what the hell would you like to say?

If you used the brain you should know that it is normal for an older manga with a better established fanbase to sell more.
They are both manga that make 200k copies by volume, 200k is more than scarce as far as I'm concerned, 200k in volume is selling a lot.

Do we have to do this every time BC is mentioned, please just stop and save us the hassle.

 

[cody]

Jujutsu changed its name among other things from its time in Giga so I wouldn't call it the same series

I think the fans saved AA and JK not Nak, they were buried in the back soon after they started, so I'll give him credit to not ignoring the fans but not for saving these series

I know I'm not the only one that rolls his eyes up every time a new fucking campaign start

There was a big change from the GIGA series and Jujutsu Kaisen. But the GIGA series is officially considered the prequel to JJK. And the GIGA series did set up some of the most important aspects and concepts for the series, with things like the setting, characters and other things. So there definitely was a much bigger change in the JJK compared to Invade You and Momiji. Jujutsu did have more opportunities to expand and change in much better ways, I guess the other two couldn't really evolve that much because they were limited by their own concepts. Higuma probably has better chances at changing a lot of things for the better, an action series can go in a lot of different directions.

The fans definitely did a good job at seeing their potential. Nak did his job to not completely screw that up. Without those two this year probably would have been a complete bust.

It depends how people view things, for some the campaigns can be amusing, exciting, funny, dumb, interesting, eye rolling.

 

[SharkBait]

Do we have to do this every time BC is mentioned, please just stop and save us the hassle.

It was pretty uncalled for that voracious BLack Clover antagonizers randomly brought up BLack Clover in world trigger discussions. Like why?

Your anger ought to be directed to those folks. The usual suspects made none of those initial comparisons.

 

[WyldViolet]

Is there a list of current Jump series and their editors?

 

[101nemesis]

Jujutsu changed its name among other things from its time in Giga so I wouldn't call it the same series

I think the fans saved AA and JK not Nak, they were buried in the back soon after they started, so I'll give him credit to not ignoring the fans but not for saving these series

I know I'm not the only one that rolls his eyes up every time a new fucking campaign start

In all fairness, campaigns are the whole purpose of WSJ. They need to market their manga, their source of income.
That said, they could pick better sounding names for their campaigns tho. They try to be edgy but it just ends up being cringy.