Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[nik87]

It's cool. No harm taken, but it's not make up as didn't you find it odd that not many of the BM mention much about Sanji's background and such. They never mention's Zeff's name or referred to him unlike Vinsmokes, meaning that they never told them yet about his true background, so that means Zeff is fine so as long Vinsmokes never say anything either. Look back on the pages and you see them not mentioning much about Sanji's background while Vinsmokes know a lot more.

Plus Baratie isn't the only famous restaurant in the world and there are others. If they knew It was exactly there, they would have spoken to Sanji about it and told him about his love ones, but never did, but the Vinsmokes knew

I think you made it up to fit your argument.
If Vito knows about it who works for Bege, who works for BM then surely BM knows it as well. Just because that information didnt come from Charlottes doesnt mean they dont know it.

 

[hokageji]

@nik87
that doesnt prove it either. BMP are a yonkou and have associations, we learned that through the arc anywyas. Yes, BMP can sitll have a threat to attack and kill Zeff, but that would either use her associates in east blue, or send her crew herself. As far as we know, her associate closest to that at the point of the statement was made was Germa. Since Judge confirmed he wont touch east blue, it is a better implication that he was that associate and the threat was lifted.

 

[nik87]

that doesnt prove it either. BMP are a yonkou and have associations, we learned that through the arc anywyas. Yes, BMP can sitll have a threat to attack and kill Zeff, but that would either use her associates in east blue, or send her crew herself. As far as we know, her associate closest to that at the point of the statement was made was Germa. Since Judge confirmed he wont touch east blue, it is a better implication that he was that associate and the threat was lifted.

Bege says it right there, that he found out about Zeff through BM. Even if the source of that information are Germa66 it had to go through BM to reach Bege. Bege works for her and he never met Germa66 before wedding.

 

[hokageji]

Bege says it right there, that he found out about Zeff through BM. Even if the source of that information are Germa66 it had to go through BM to reach Bege. Bege works for her and he never met Germa66 before wedding.

I am confused. So you still think there is a threat to Zeff's life? Thats where my commenting is coming from, perhaps its misplaced.

 

[nik87]

I am confused. So you still think there is a threat to Zeff's life? Thats where my commenting is coming from, perhaps its misplaced.

Nah I never mentioned that. King Moe said it like Big Mom and her family doesnt know the location of Baratie, like its some secret only Germa66 knew...

 

[King Moe]

Nah I never mentioned that. King Moe said it like Big Mom and her family doesnt know the location of Baratie, like its some secret only Germa66 knew...

They never said anything about it much compare to Vinsmokes though. Leading to believe that Vinsmokes never told them anything yet and never will.

 

[nik87]

Leading to believe that Vinsmokes never told them anything yet and never will.

Already gave u panel which is pretty much confirming that Bege knows about it because his boss, a Yonko can get such information without effort and since Bege doesnt work for Germa66 the information came to Bege only through BM's side.
I told you that you made it up to fit your argument.

Also regarding your earlier reply regarding Sanji and Daifuku...
You praise Sanji that he could hold his own against BM's higher tier. In 4 clashes that Sanji had with Daifuku, 2 times he was overpowered and was on the ground, that doesnt look good. You praise Sanji for kicking Oven and sending him flying while you dont acknowledge the same when its being done to Sanji by Daifuku, plus a difference, that Oven never fought Sanji and Sanji hit him while he was distracted while Sanji wasnt distracted when he clashed with Daifuku and still was overpowered and sent flying.
Also, note that Oven and Daifuku are not sweet commanders, they are a lower tier. Raisin, who is a lower tier, as well was kicked by Sanji while he was distracted.

 

[King Moe]

Already gave u panel which is pretty much confirming that Bege knows about it because his boss, a Yonko can get such information without effort and since Bege doesnt work for Germa66 the information came to Bege only through BM's side.
I told you that you made it up to fit your argument.

Also regarding your earlier reply regarding Sanji and Daifuku...
You praise Sanji that he could hold his own against BM's higher tier. In 4 clashes that Sanji had with Daifuku, 2 times he was overpowered and was on the ground, that doesnt look good. You praise Sanji for kicking Oven and sending him flying while you dont acknowledge the same when its being done to Sanji by Daifuku, plus a difference, that Oven never fought Sanji and Sanji hit him while he was distracted while Sanji wasnt distracted when he clashed with Daifuku and still was overpowered and sent flying.
Also, note that Oven and Daifuku are not sweet commanders, they are a lower tier. Raisin, who is a lower tier, as well was kicked by Sanji while he was distracted.

Hokageji call you out on that and said that isn't the same thing, dude. Bege never once mention Zeff or more information about Sanji and that BM Pirates have ways of getting background information. Vinsmokes were their way. He didn't need to know that at all.

Sanji is going to save his family, he wasn't focus on Daifuku that moment. 4 clashes? He gave Daifuku twice with one time he was trying to save his family and later on blocking Daifuku to save Carrot and the ship. Again your using same argument mention in your past posts despite later on he block giant version of his Genie. Your acting pushing him back means defeat when it doesn't.

Oven and Raisins were expecting and were fighting thus their guards were more up. Thus Sanji able to damage them is props to them as they were expecting a fight.

Also like how you trying to put cheap shots are bad, but found you praising Zoro as good thing on the other thread against Hawkins and Fujitora. Same argument can be used on them in the same way.

 

[afromarco005]

Hokageji call you out on that and said that isn't the same thing, dude. Bege never once mention Zeff or more information about Sanji and that BM Pirates have ways of getting background information. Vinsmokes were their way. He didn't need to know that at all.

Sanji is going to save his family, he wasn't focus on Daifuku that moment. 4 clashes? He gave Daifuku twice with one time he was trying to save his family and later on blocking Daifuku to save Carrot and the ship. Again your using same argument mention in your past posts despite later on he block giant version of his Genie. Your acting pushing him back means defeat when it doesn't.

Oven and Raisins were expecting and were fighting thus their guards were more up. Thus Sanji able to damage them is props to them as they were expecting a fight.

Also like how you trying to put cheap shots are bad, but found you praising Zoro as good thing on the other thread against Hawkins and Fujitora. Same argument can be used on them in the same way.

But isn't Raisin basically fodder?

 

[nik87]

Hokageji call you out on that and said that isn't the same thing, dude. Bege never once mention Zeff or more information about Sanji and that BM Pirates have ways of getting background information. Vinsmokes were their way. He didn't need to know that at all.

Hokageji spoke about something else.
You should go re-read stuff as you clearly forget how it went down. What do you think Vito whispered into Sanji's ear in a panel before? What did Sanji ask about "How did you find out"? Vito and Bege know about Zeff and that information came from Big Mom, she knows about it.

Sanji is going to save his family, he wasn't focus on Daifuku that moment. 4 clashes? He gave Daifuku twice with one time he was trying to save his family and later on blocking Daifuku to save Carrot and the ship. Again your using same argument mention in your past posts despite later on he block giant version of his Genie.

1 clash - https://pm1.narvii.com/6566/b3591a2b83e357f64a5f1d8991674a4ddb79fde2_hq.jpg
2 clash - https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/871/17.jpg
3 clash - https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...1ky7hz5MPHYIqviiQW0CVXGP9z5HvZrIey1ngHXOJfSwo
4 clash - https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/864/08.jpg

As you can see out of 4 clashes two times he was on the ground.

Your acting pushing him back means defeat when it doesn't.

I never said it does, you said he held his own against Daifuku which he clearly didnt.

Oven and Raisins were expecting and were fighting thus their guards were more up. Thus Sanji able to damage them is props to them as they were expecting a fight.

Both Oven and Raisin were about to hit someone else and Sanji jumped in and kicked them, it says nothing about how Sanji would do against them.

Also like how you trying to put cheap shots are bad, but found you praising Zoro as good thing on the other thread against Hawkins and Fujitora. Same argument can be used on them in the same way.

I never said Zoro's first hit on Hawkins wasnt a cheap shot and Zoro sending a flying slash on Fujitora who was keeping the gravity on him is not a cheap shot.

 

[King Moe]

But isn't Raisin basically fodder?

Not really, he is one of the strong fighters seeing how the siblings respond to him and plus we don't know bounties of majority of the crew, so Raisin probably one of those to be like that.

 

[M3J]

What is similar in both Sanji and Usopp case is the disrespect, not the fact that they left. That's what I have been saying for a while now

But why they did what they did is important as well. Usopp had no reason or justification behind his action while Sanji wanted Luffy to get away before Big Mom found him and captured him. I doubt anyone will hold that against him, especially since Luffy didn't.

 

[King Moe]

Show me where they stated they know about Sanji and stated clearly about Zeff and Baratie.

None of these were him on the ground except one. Also you have them in different order when these happen and you kinda include my point of Sanji facing him later on in the arc and pushing back his Giant Genie to save Carrot and the ship. So takes away your argument that Sanji is incapable of pushing him back. Anime even shows more of this even.

He did as you are showing few images he did push him back and holding his own.

They are tough guys and for them to be push back, shows how much stronger Sanji is compare to them. Plus he done this type of stuff before and sometimes couldn't do it with certain opponents. It doesn't take away his efforts and pushing them back.

Yes they are as Fujitora and Hawkins weren't looking at his direction, they were looking at something else. Both are cheap shots, but you praised them as saying "Oh Zoro can definitely take them", but now you put down on Sanji doing it as a mean he is 'weak' to face them face to face when clearly he has in the arc. You can't be two-faced on your stance on sneak attacks either they are legit or not.

 

[afromarco005]

But why they did what they did is important as well. Usopp had no reason or justification behind his action while Sanji wanted Luffy to get away before Big Mom found him and captured him. I doubt anyone will hold that against him, especially since Luffy didn't.

You are most probably right, and that is the most obvious and probable outcome.

However I also think that pride and respect (outside of circonstances and reasons behind someone's actions) are important too.
Seeing how Zoro values these traits very highly I would really like him to react to what happened in WCI and act accordingly.

I really liked the tension back in the ussop days, and beeing in the land of the proud samurai I would like some of this tension back.

Chances of this happenning are low I conceive it but I am hopeful, just my opinion.

 

[nik87]

Show me where they stated they know about Sanji and stated clearly about Zeff and Baratie.

When it comes to making Sanji look good you are a master at twisting things around and presenting them incorrectly. Before you use something as an argument to support your views first check if it is true or not because you have been misunderstanding situations a lot lately and all are related to Sanji.
https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/839/12.jpg
https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/843/16.jpg
https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/824/17.jpg
Not only Big Mom knows about Zeff and Baratie but it was her underling who told Germa66 about it. You completely twisted the facts around.

It doesn't take away his efforts and pushing them back.

The only one who was pushed back was Sanji and I showed you the panel twice, he didnt push back Daifuku at all, he only stopped his attack to protect Carrot, thats not pushing back. What Daifuku did to him is pushing back, when he sent him flying, he overpowered him.

shows how much stronger Sanji is compare to them.

It only shows that Sanji attacks opponents when they are fighting someone else because when he faces them head on he loses, in WCI.

Yes they are as Fujitora and Hawkins weren't looking at his direction, they were looking at something else.

Dont twist what I am saying. Fujitora was in combat with Zoro, he was keeping him down so that slash was not a cheap shot. I said it was against Hawkins.

 

[King Moe]

When it comes to making Sanji look good you are a master at twisting things around and presenting them incorrectly. Before you use something as an argument to support your views first check if it is true or not because you have been misunderstanding situations a lot lately and all are related to Sanji.
https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/839/12.jpg
https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/843/16.jpg
https://automanga.com/uploads/manga/one-piece/chapters/824/17.jpg
Not only Big Mom knows about Zeff and Baratie but it was her underling who told Germa66 about it. You completely twisted the facts around.

The only one who was pushed back was Sanji and I showed you the panel twice, he didnt push back Daifuku at all, he only stopped his attack to protect Carrot, thats not pushing back. What Daifuku did to him is pushing back, when he sent him flying, he overpowered him.


It only shows that Sanji attacks opponents when they are fighting someone else because when he faces them head on he loses, in WCI.


Dont twist what I am saying. Fujitora was in combat with Zoro, he was keeping him down so that slash was not a cheap shot. I said it was against Hawkins.

Nah, you word it as something else from your facts that they knew everything from there. Looking at this, they don't seem to have that deep as details as mention. Yes, they know he is from East Blue, but they never mention much of Zeff and Baratie except from Germa side which means they have more information they were withholding. Also I read through the chapters, none of the family members or Big Mom ever mention to Sanji they knew exactly where or what restaurant and more so they putting on a threat with information they have. Vinsmokes have the last piece of information that no one from BM Pirates or Bege's group know about it.

Yeah he push him back and hold his against his power from the pictures. You only mentioning the scene at the wedding and not much on the other events later in the arc. Your countering your yourself still, Nik.

Nah, if so then Yonji and Bobbin wouldn't have lost if he can't win 1 vs 1 battles. Sanji able to push back Oven and Raisin when they have Haki is a big feat as like I said; their guards is up and not always this works for Sanji against someone I remember Kuma being unaffected and wasn't push back in pre-timeskip with something similar to this. Your missing more points on this, Nik.

Now your putting an non-factual information and shooting down sneak attacks. If so then Zoro is no longer a fighter then since he done his share of sneak attacks onto Fujitora, Hawkins, Monet, and so on. Your acting wrong here, Nik (No hate from my post, but your really countering yourself). It's not me changing anything, your putting yourself on the spot. You said them in the topics and think Zoro is stronger out of them even stronger than Luffy cause he was able to do his sneak attacks onto him. Either you admit they are legit on both sides or don't count them at all on both. You can't pick one side and ignore the other. It takes away your argument more.

 

[nik87]

@King Moe I am done arguing with you. Your complete argument was that it was Germa66 who blackmailed Sanji while they didnt even know about it without Big Mom pirates and with facts presented debunking your argument you are still going on ignoring facts and twisting stuff around.

 

[King Moe]

@King Moe I am done arguing with you. Your complete argument was that it was Germa66 who blackmailed Sanji while they didnt even know about it without Big Mom pirates and with facts presented debunking your argument you are still going on ignoring facts and twisting stuff around.

Same here. You keep not answering my questions and countering your stuff when you have the pictures. If Big Mom and Bege knew, why never once they mention themselves or anyone else in detail except Vinsmokes? If it was still a issue, why hasn't Big Mom and her crew act on it when Sanji fight back? That shows they aren't that deep as you try to insert.

Also you didn't answer my question on sneak attacks and how you act like they are bad thing when everyone even Zoro does them. Your forcing something that isn't a issue to make Sanji look bad when it isn't.

Let's end this debate here and go our ways.

 

[King Moe]

That's WG knowledge as even them know Sanji came from East Blue. Talking about details like they know Zeff, where Baratie is, who else they have on hit list, etc..

Not one member mention it when fighting Sanji even when he escape with Luffy. If they knew, they would be like Vinsmokes in telling him about it, but not once about that.

 

[nik87]

Talking about details like they know Zeff, where Baratie is, who else they have on hit list, etc..

Ffs, read the 3 links i gave you before. Germa66 didnt even know that Zeff and Baratie existed at all. It was Tamago who gave them that information and gave them a picture of Zeff and stop making stuff up.