Discussion Sanji discussion thread

Discussion in 'One Piece' started by afromarco005, Mar 19, 2018.

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Are you satisfied with Sanji as a fighter/character in the new world?

  1. He is still the best/my favourite character no need for him to change

  2. yes he is well written and interesting for the story

  3. Yes but he should get more satisfying fights in the future

  4. yeah he is alright I dont mind him

  5. He is meh...

  6. He is a huge dissapointement and needs lots of training/character developpement

  7. He is a pain and prevents you from fully enjoying the manga

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. afromarco005

    afromarco005 Registered User

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    Sanji has been a straw hat for a while, and gained a massive fanbase since then due to his design, charisma, fighting style and personality.
    To the point where he often made it in the top 5 of popularity polls.

    [​IMG]
    his role in the crew was mostly that of a badass cook capable of stealth and strategies that would often save the crew in a pinch.

    [​IMG]
    At his apogee he was always the one seen beating the ennemy crew's third strongest fighter, he was even part of what the fanbase called "the monster trio" alongside luffy and zoro.

    Talking about zoro, they were always presented as rivals close in strenght the best example of this being the douriki of their opponents kaku and Jabra being almost identical.
    Back in the days som fans would even go as far as saying that sanji was an overall better fighter than zoro considering his speed and tactics.

    [​IMG]
    As for his personality he was a womanizer albeit a bit of a parody of one, he was classy, kind with his crewmates and friends, he had pride and a sense of honor as seen whith the usopp incodent, even agreeing with zoro that usopp went too far he was also a fancy guy always looking good with black suits etc

    However since the timeskip Oda seems to have decided to switch things up with his character, his strenght is no longer hilighted by the story and he has been struggling a lot against his opponents.
    [​IMG]
    His "kindness" was emphasized and he even went as far as cooking a cake for his ennemy during the whole cake island arc, while his badass attitude and charisma were put on the back burner leaving many fans dubious.

    So how do you feel about this character pre and post time skip?

    What is your opinion of his developpement?

    What role do you think he will have in the future will he be replaced by Jimbe as the crew strategist?
    Can he still be considered as zoro's rival?
    will he be concentrating more on his cooking skills as opposed to his fighting skills?
    What kind of effects will his okama 99 cooking recepies have?
    Any theories?

    This is the sanji discussion thread:stare
     
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  2. kcd

    kcd Registered User

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    Yes, thanks for the thread, I have plenty to say regarding sanji.

    Someone pointed out in the chapter thread (I think @HP), that Sanji needed to be presented as weak for any of what happened in WCI to have any meaning (or make sense), I agree on that. For the most part, I think it's plot that has made him not performed (and by that I mean battlewise) since the time skip.

    While I CAN'T beat my chest and blindly say he's still close to zoro in strength, I can't also say he isn't as all we've been getting are half-fights, nothing solid. If we look at his encounters closely, we would see it's all been done by Oda on purpose.

    Against vergo, while it was beyond ridiculous he cracked his bone, it's good to also note he was already low on stamina and had sustained some damage (while Nami's soul was inhabiting his body), Vergo on the other hand was fresh, with stamina close to 100%. Sanji's not an absolute tank like luffy, neither can he regain stamina instantly by over-feeding, my guess is 'it's that state' he found himself that contributed, plot did him no favours there.

    Against Judge he was dominated, but, it's also good to note it wasn't a death match, like - if I dont win ... I'm done for. So it definitely can't be classed with his matchup against vergo or doffy. And, like with all fights in onepiece (well, almost all fights), nobody starts off with their strongest attack. Judge didn't get the chance to use his strongest attack and Neither did Sanji, so we definitely can't judge him based on that performance. It'll be like judging gear2/3 luffy against doffy. Do that and you'll have wrong representation of his power level. We didn't see Sanji go all out to the point he was Unable to continue (as was the case with katakuri), so we can't claim anything otherwise.

    Against doffy,
    Well, He had armament, so he probably wouldn't have died had law not showed up, though, I'm highly certain he would've lost that fight in the end.

    In all, I'm waiting to see how Oda handles his character in Wano before making final assessment on his power level, but honestly, i've not been impressed. Some say he will be knocking out a freaking yonkou with his cooking ability, but, that won't help him against Smoothie or Doffy or Jack or Burgess or Ussop or Nami. I know a lot of persons won't like to hear this but i'll say it anyway. It's just food he cooked, they probably showed/taught him that recipe during the TS (or maybe not, i dont know), but it's not like he (or will) arm-stronged Bigmom into submission, so why should I be Amazed?, because the cake is sweet?, because it will make you sleep? Or day dream? Or happy?, To add salt to injury, somehow his COOK's PRIDE is worth more than the lives of his friends.
    Again, in terms of power level, i'll wait till Wano to know for sure, but I sure hope he does something that'll make me forgive him for what he did to luffy. First, for not believing in his captain (at that point in time) and
    Second, for giving luffy the beating of his life.
     
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  3. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche Registered User

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    I think we can tell exactly how strong Sanji is. We know he beat Luffy with his full strength as he said; that was the best he could do against a Luffy who was tired, beaten and frankly wasn't even protecting himself.

    Against Judge, I think we're making excuses regarding how poor his performance was due to expectations. Sanji just isn't as strong as people think he is at this point.

    He doesn't have Hardened Armament. It's not like Oda forgot, we see many character utilise it. Hardened Armament is nothing fantastic, we've seen many characters use it. Sanji has been in situations where it'd have made sense, but given that he hasn't, we have to accept that this is the current limit of his strength. Once Sanji goes to Diable Jambe, he's pretty much fighting seriously and Judge tossed him aside. He showed nothing suggesting being stronger at the very least.

    It's not like this is bashing Sanji, it's just the reality. I think people are just struggling to accept it.
    1. It's really only been 22 days in the Manga.
    2. It's only one of many arcs. Still many to go...
    Some people are acting like this is the final opportunity for Sanji to prove his strength. He already has, he just needs to get stronger and that will come eventually. The Sanji must fight bandwaggon need to step back, breathe a little and knock off this unhealthy sense of urgency and just be patient in waiting to see what Oda will do next.
     
  4. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    Sanji's been severely underrated and underhyped with little to no justification or decent argument. His fight against Vergo was never completed, Doflamingo had to tie him up, and he was blackmailed to go through with the wedding without fighting back.

    The only, if not main, issue I have though is how "lovey dovey" he is. It was never this bad prior to the arc or even the timeskip. Some members did complain about him being worried about Robin and Nami but not the others, which is stupid given Sanji's been doing this since his introduction.
     
  5. shadow22

    shadow22 Registered User

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    Sanji was not dominated by judge and judge didn't knock him unconscious sanji just gave up because judge would have continued the wall technique and he hesitated out of worry for the troops
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 20, 2018 ---
    Sanji I think has something that topples Diablo jambe and raid suits are heat resistant. And about hardened armament haki I ts possible with you look at Bellamy he did not show hardened armament haki till his fight with luffy when it would fit for him to use it during the gladiator fight I think the stress and things he went through caused him to gain hardened armament haki like how luffys observation haki grew
     
  6. afromarco005

    afromarco005 Registered User

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    I always thought that drawing armament haki for sanji was hard cause he is always wearing black so Oda made him use diable jambe to specify to us Readers that sanji was using armament haki.

    It would be weird for sanji not to have at least basic armament haki
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2018 ---
    I agree with you on the judge part if sanji had better observtion haki or if he was fast enough he could have easily dealt with the judge without harming the wall soldiers. He got sent flying a few times too in that very fight.

    I also think that the luffy beating was sanjis full str3nght cause he was trying his best to ko luffy to force him and the others to leave. I wonder how zoro would react to this scene had he been a member of the rescue team​
     
  7. Hannibal Psyche

    Hannibal Psyche Registered User

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    He has the basic Armament, that version of Armament is represented as Invisible.

    I'm also glad Zoro wasn't there if he was going to react anything like Nami.
     
  8. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    He does have that much. At least two proofs that he does have Color of Armament, but I've no idea his level of mastery over it. Going by things though, it's likely less than Zoro's.
    what if he didn't use haki at the time though, especially since he was trying to attack? Is it possible to use Color of Observation while fighting, or at least for someone who's not on a high level like Katakuri?
     
  9. kcd

    kcd Registered User

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    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2018 ---
    Actually, he was dominated, and by that I mean - 'Judge looked more in control of that fight than Sanji'.
    And,
    you're right he wasn't defeated, he walked away. That was the main point I was relaying.

    Agreed.
    I was gonna write a long post about this in my first post, but it was way past my bedtime.

    The issue I have with him is exactly what you said here. It's not that he hasn't been having match-ups, he has, it's just his attitude towards it that I don't fancy very much. Take luffy for example, If Judge had used such unhanded tactics against him, that would've made him more pissed, such that he would want to beat him all the more.
    But here, we see Sanji casually walking away from the fight instead of expressing/releasing all the anger he's accumulating within himself. I get that he isn't luffy and I should'nt expect him to act like his captain, but, what can I say man?, he's been ... I can't find the right words ... Incredibly Naive.

    I'm not even bothered he isn't beating anybody, it's the other things he's doing that's at this point 'laughable'.

    How did Bege put it? ... something in the line of - " what kind of idiot would have an opportunity to feed Bigmom and not think of adding a few things", he went as far as saying he doesn't know the Bigmom of now, but the Bigmom of then has regretted not killing people she had the chance to kill, insinuating there'll be consequences later, but still, he wasn't willing to see reason, almost as if he was high on something.
    I look at him now and I see a 4 year old.

    The only reason I'm not writting him off just yet is because we haven't seen him fight all-out or being beaten (Lol) to the point he couldn't continue (OBVIOUSLY, AS WAS THE CASE WITH KATAKURI VS LUFfY).
    When that happens, we (I personally) can then say - 'of a truth, we have seen his limit, he had nothing else to offer'.
    Jumping to that conclusion 'right now' is INCOMPLETE ASSESSMENT.
    To know 'for sure', i'll wait till Wano.

    First things first, he needs to put his past behind him, we've pitied him enough. It's not easy on him I know, even Katakuri (a full grown man) has (or had?) personal issues as well, but he needs to get past this family issue, be it grudge or whatever wrong he suffered at the hands of Judge, he needs to get past it, so he can move forward.

    C'mon, he tried knocking him out the best he could, not KILL HIM.
     
  10. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    I don't think Sanji's naive, he has shown he's wiser than that. But against the Judge, Sanji likely lost because he didn't want the Judge to sacrifice any more lives. Sanji's an extremely chivalrous and honorable man to the point that he'd rather die than hurt a lady. We've also seen that Sanji's experiences have led him to believe feeding people is extremely important; the way he wanted Big Mom to eat without poisoning her is similar to how he let the Krieg pirates eat despite them potentially becoming enemies. This has honestly been a consistent portrayal since his introduction.

    And to be fair, other characters would see the Straw Hats as a crazy bunch because they're not used to pirates like the Straw Hats.
     
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  11. Shasha23

    Shasha23 Registered User

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    Lol the amount of tilted Sanji fans here is amazing!

    Just waiting for when Sanji tries to justify his actions to Usopp and Zoro
     
  12. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    shitty argument there mate
     
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  13. Pro Ban Corps

    Pro Ban Corps Registered User

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    First of all that’s annoying for me as well... but when have the SHP ever agreed to kill someone??? Sometimes Zoro even makes it a habit to hit weak opponents with the dull side of the blade... killing is not and shp thing. So in a way he’s sticking to his character and tbh Luffy won’t be happy with him. (This is really a no brainier :P )
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2018 ---
    On the strength basis, if Bellamy couldn’t knock Luffy out and he had hardened coa does that not suggest Sanji has it but has not showcased it??
    Because we all know Sanji is stronger than Bellamy. IMO he can use it. It he’s not perfect with it yet... in 3d2y which Oda was involved in we saw Luffy knew how to use it but it was a 50/50 chance.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2018 ---
    Luffy wasn’t completely tired, he still fought the enraged army... also just to say, in relation to the last chapter I like how people say Sanji is dumb for trying to escape cacao with bmp forces alone and they don’t judge Luffy for not retreating and losing... double standards??
    Sanji isn’t up to par...but I’m only saying that because he’s not been in a life or death situation.
    Also with the judge fight... it’s impossible to fight someone with others interfering it’s either he goes through the soldiers or he looses. Even Luffy ended up being affected by flambes interference.
    Tho Sanji was using a technique vs Judge, saying he was trying to fight him/kill him will be ridiculous. Also I’d like to point out Judge was probably also holding back.
    Just also note... yonji who got offscreened pretty much oneshotted the guy that people made fun of Sanji for in the chapter before last. Almost like saying Luffy was weak Cos he got caught out by Madara while trying to escape.
     
  14. kcd

    kcd Registered User

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    Good point, It never crossed my mind to compare the two a** whoopings. One thing to consider though, is his physical state in the two matchups. Good point nonetheless.

    Agreed, we share the same opinion here.
    Really, I don't get why people keep assuming/claiming we've seen all he's capable of. We can claim we know katakuri's limits because we've seen him go all out, we've seen him fall down unconscious, unable to continue fighting.
    That has never been the case with Sanji, so it baffles me people say otherwise.
    It is a fact we don't know his limit.

    Come on man,
    You're saying choosing COOK'S PRIDE over SAFETY/LIFE of friends (and loved ones) is a no brainer?

    It was his Cook's pride that didn't allow him think of the consequences when she wakes up after eating the cake, somehow he believes they would be able handle her ones they leave her territory, which is a sudden change of heart considering he didn't fee 'that way' back at Zou.

    If He didn't attend the wedding, his friends lives would be in danger, But now they destroy her home (pissing her off the more) and He's ok with just escaping for the moment?
    It would be really NAIVE of him to think Bigmom would forgive them after she eats the cake, though, that's just my opinion.

    They're pirates, some of the time they (SHP) turn blind eyes to certain things. Sanji played an active/major role in an assassination plot just to save his brothers and sister.
    Sanji, Brook, Luffy e.t.c., all took part in the plot to KILL BM, Jimbe had to talk luffy into it. Luffy even came up with ideas to make his appearance glorious, brook had to break Mother Caramel picture to give Bege the opening he needs to pull the trigger (to kill BM). So I disagree when you say "killing is not a strawhat thing".
    As we can see here, they would do almost anything (even partaking in an assassination) to save the people they care about (or in this case, people they dont like but don't want them dead).
     
  15. Pro Ban Corps

    Pro Ban Corps Registered User

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    It is not cooks pride, Luffy simple never kills his opponent, correct me if this is not in the mangs, but im sure luffy actually forced zoro not to cut people down and he made him use the dull side of the blade?. Them taking part in the assissination plot was tied to the saving of sanji's family. They didnt agree to directly kill big mom themselves, but only agreed to create chaos, which was in order to save vinsmokes... Bege is not luffy's crew mate. They(shp) werent going to kill BM themselves. That is my point. They as pirates will do anuything to escape and the consequence they leave in their wake might not matter to them. But they dont get into fights with intent to kill.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2018 ---
    He never once thought of making friends with BM through his cake. His being on WCI was inevitable. I have said before if he didnt, Zou woulda been under seige from two yonkous. which is really bad tbh.
     
  16. kcd

    kcd Registered User

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    It wasn't cook's pride?, but Sanji literary said so himself (in the manga).

    You think because they weren't gonna pull the trigger themselves they weren't as culpable as well?

    Just an instance :
    1. Bigmom is in possession of my friends
    2. Bege tells me he wants to kill her,
    3. I agreed to not only be a distraction, but also team up to remove the bullet proof vest she wears.
    4. Bege then steps up pull the trigger.

    And you think I'm clean of murder?, lets call a spade what it is.
    I'm not in the justice system and at this moment can't remember the terms they use to refer to such people, but arguing they weren't gonna kill BM themselves doesn't make them any less culpable (the benefits they'll get at the end of the day isn't what is KEY here, it is what they did to get the benefits).
    That's just my opinion though.

    Ok.

    But what was the fate of Zou as at when He (Sanji) was enroute to delivering the cake?, how was their relationship with the BMP as at when they were pondering on whether to add things to the cake?, was it better?, or was it worse?
    Ok, so because they're not currently in Zou, zou is now safe?, if that's the case, why didn't they just leave so zou won't be under attack by two yonkous?
    Zou might be a part of the reason he left, but, the major reason is Bigmom's threat to his friends and loved ones. Apparently, he isn't scared of that threat anymore as was the case in zou. This is the point I was making in the part of my post you quoted.
    That's why I think it WOULD be Naive (not it is naive) of him if he thinks the cake would end the threat.
     
  17. Pro Ban Corps

    Pro Ban Corps Registered User

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    Family* since we're calling spades spades.... by this idea, Sanji wanted to run from WCI with reijubut she refused... there was no other way than to cooperate with jimbe's idea of saving them... Luffy just agreed to crete chaos, but i'm sure he probably woulda stopped bege from killing big mom based off his unbalanced ideology, i imagine him saying something lioke.."Im the on that will defeat her" but oda made it a point that the plan was a failure anyway. So they have never killed... They was both in Punk hazard together with Law, just becaused Law killed Vergo(99% likely), des it mean they are involved in his murder as well??
    Or because cesarstabbed monets hearrt, does it mean Law and shp are at fault??
    In a hostage situation, if you manage to save you friend/family and leave the person open for attack and he gets killed, is it your fault??
     
  18. kcd

    kcd Registered User

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    Good to know that's your opinion on it, we see things quite differently that's all.
     
  19. afromarco005

    afromarco005 Registered User

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    I was rereading one piece recently and I coudnt help but wonder, seeing Sanji's attitude towards women especially after the time skip wether Sanji was a virgin.

    because thinking about it he is behaving like a middleschooler when it comes to women even if it is exagerated for comedic purposes of course

    I personaly think that he is
     
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  20. TrueRaiKage

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    The writing has taking a shift since timeskip. He's grown but much like the rest of the crew and not on an elite level. His badass motif has been stripped away. Not a fan boy but as a fan I liked the cake baker until this WCI arc. It just hasn't been his arc. Some great moments but not enough to sell me on him being worthy of being the FPK's chef or a member of big three.

    I'm sure he has the skills and talent but some how he is being written in a way that just destroys his edge.

    I hope the author turns it back in the direction it once was.

    Why aren't ppl voting?
     
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