Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[kkck]

I don't like the thread to be honest. I don't feel sanji is a "meh" or annoying character yet but I completely despise everything oda has done with him recently. Oda hasn't really given sanji the chance to do anything in any of the arcs until now. At fishman island he fought a weakling alongside jinbe. Of course, literally every strawhat fought some worthless fodder but sanji didn't even get his own worthless fodder to own, he had to share. In punk hazard sanji got a bit of a cool moment against vergo. He held his own against a competent VA while injured. But he didn't really finish the fight nor anything of the sort. With sanji hardly doing much of anything during the rest of the arc it ends up being a sort of "meh". And then dressrosa... Where its more or less the same except sanji isn't injured. Sanji fights doflamingo for 3 seconds, his strength is recognized by doflamingo and then gets immediately owned. Then sanji rides the sunny away from the arc without defeating anyone at all. Not even fodder. Even franky got a doflamingo subordinate to fight. And then zou... Where sanji... works as chopper's assistant to save lives. Which is cool and all but he didn't even defeat kaido's remaining forces or anything. And then he meets bege.... Who easily gets sanji to go with him with virtually no resistance. Granted it makes sense that sanji didn't resist much but come on, it just follows a pattern of sanji not really fighting much in arcs. Anyways, then the big mom arc which is supposed to be sanji's year.... And during the entire arc he doesn't defeat anyone. His biggest achievement in the arc is the fucking stupid cake which is... simply enjoyed by big mom. And then nothing happens. I guess technically there could still be a consequence to her eating the cake but it kinda seems like the arc is over. Sanji used to be part of the monster trio, he fought the third strongest in the enemy's crew and came out on top. Nowadays sanji's only achievement is to bake a cake which does nothing other than get casually enjoyed. Alabasta sanji is dead, all we have now is some guy who barely ever fights and when he does he doesn't even have the decency to win.

 

[afromarco005]

I don't like the thread to be honest. I don't feel sanji is a "meh" or annoying character yet but I completely despise everything oda has done with him recently. Oda hasn't really given sanji the chance to do anything in any of the arcs until now. At fishman island he fought a weakling alongside jinbe. Of course, literally every strawhat fought some worthless fodder but sanji didn't even get his own worthless fodder to own, he had to share. In punk hazard sanji got a bit of a cool moment against vergo. He held his own against a competent VA while injured. But he didn't really finish the fight nor anything of the sort. With sanji hardly doing much of anything during the rest of the arc it ends up being a sort of "meh". And then dressrosa... Where its more or less the same except sanji isn't injured. Sanji fights doflamingo for 3 seconds, his strength is recognized by doflamingo and then gets immediately owned. Then sanji rides the sunny away from the arc without defeating anyone at all. Not even fodder. Even franky got a doflamingo subordinate to fight. And then zou... Where sanji... works as chopper's assistant to save lives. Which is cool and all but he didn't even defeat kaido's remaining forces or anything. And then he meets bege.... Who easily gets sanji to go with him with virtually no resistance. Granted it makes sense that sanji didn't resist much but come on, it just follows a pattern of sanji not really fighting much in arcs. Anyways, then the big mom arc which is supposed to be sanji's year.... And during the entire arc he doesn't defeat anyone. His biggest achievement in the arc is the fucking stupid cake which is... simply enjoyed by big mom. And then nothing happens. I guess technically there could still be a consequence to her eating the cake but it kinda seems like the arc is over. Sanji used to be part of the monster trio, he fought the third strongest in the enemy's crew and came out on top. Nowadays sanji's only achievement is to bake a cake which does nothing other than get casually enjoyed. Alabasta sanji is dead, all we have now is some guy who barely ever fights and when he does he doesn't even have the decency to win.

Alabasta Sanji was really the best, I still remember the mr prince saves the day moment and the crocodile to this day.

I dont want to be this guy but I like the old one piece better, and the old portrayal of the crew members better too, including sanji they had chemistery, they had more charisma no strawhat was underused and we had a real feeling of adventure and discovery we felt more attached and close to them.

I think what is different and less interesting now is how the main crew except luffy don't get much time to really shine and amaze us like they used to, with their jokes their interactions etc. I think Oda likes to introduce too many characters and doesnt know how to spread the pannel time between them and the over reliance on tropes like strawhats runing for many chapters with the children in punk hazard, runing away from gaz for many chapters chasing after ceasat for many chapters, random people running after sugar got koed, then the birdcage shenanigans and then luffy running away on gatz or whatever back to recover haki, seducing woods, mama chasing sunny for 350 chapters it kills the pacing and the imersion for many.

another thing is the main crews full strenght post timeskip, besides luffy and maybe franky we are pretty much clueless as to how strong the crewmates are, we are now 7+ years since the timeskip and we still have no clue as to what zoro or sanji can really do and it explains why some are desperate to get to wano hoping that we'll finally see them do something ...

So going back to Sanji, in my opinion this lack of screentime and the fact that we dont know his real potential (coupled with his very bad portrayal/Odas trolling since the new world whatever excuses can be found for each situation) make it way less easy to accept things like him baking a cake for the ennemy threatening his crew and allies when in his own arc he was barely allowed any pannel time outside of flashbacks. The dissapointement also comes from setting our expectations too high after not seeing the character in action for so long.

 

[kkck]

Alabasta Sanji was really the best, I still remember the mr prince saves the day moment and the crocodile to this day.

I dont want to be this guy but I like the old one piece better, and the old portrayal of the crew members better too, including sanji they had chemistery, they had more charisma no strawhat was underused and we had a real feeling of adventure and discovery we felt more attached and close to them.

I think what is different and less interesting now is how the main crew except luffy don't get much time to really shine and amaze us like they used to, with their jokes their interactions etc. I think Oda likes to introduce too many characters and doesnt know how to spread the pannel time between them and the over reliance on tropes like strawhats runing for many chapters with the children in punk hazard, runing away from gaz for many chapters chasing after ceasat for many chapters, random people running after sugar got koed, then the birdcage shenanigans and then luffy running away on gatz or whatever back to recover haki, seducing woods, mama chasing sunny for 350 chapters it kills the pacing and the imersion for many.

another thing is the main crews full strenght post timeskip, besides luffy and maybe franky we are pretty much clueless as to how strong the crewmates are, we are now 7+ years since the timeskip and we still have no clue as to what zoro or sanji can really do and it explains why some are desperate to get to wano hoping that we'll finally see them do something ...

So going back to Sanji, in my opinion this lack of screentime and the fact that we dont know his real potential (coupled with his very bad portrayal/Odas trolling since the new world whatever excuses can be found for each situation) make it way less easy to accept things like him baking a cake for the ennemy threatening his crew and allies when in his own arc he was barely allowed any pannel time outside of flashbacks. The dissapointement also comes from setting our expectations too high after not seeing the character in action for so long.

We do have a pretty clear idea of how strong sanji is though. His performance against vergo and doflamingo is very indicative of how much he is worth to the crew, even if the fights didn't really build up to anything. But it is true a large chunk of the crew's strength remains a mystery even after such a long time. Zoro in particular in a mystery... Normally he closely trails luffy as far as I can tell but luffy's boost against katakuri was gargantuan. It's hard to imagine zoro against that... I get the feeling that zoro will either get a similarly big boost at some point or perhaps will reveal he is much stronger than what we could have thought and the current luffy maintains the usual difference with him... Either scenario will suck for sanji though.

TBH I more or less got why oda didn't show much of the strawhats during dressrosa. It even made sense to me. You had the entire crew and on top of that the first stage towards luffy having his own personal armada. Dressrosa's main flaw is that it was way longer than it hard a right to but otherwise it was a decent arc which does a fair bit of setup for future arcs. But oda literally had no excuse to not give the strawhats at whole cake island a bigger role. There were only luffy, nami, brook, sanji and chopper after all. Each of them deserved and should have gotten a full fight to show off their stuff. Instead all we got is luffy defeating two commanders and then introducing bullshit haki powerup mechanics which I assume will continue to ruin arcs for years to come.

 

[M3J]

What is annoying is that Oda didn't really show what Sanji could do against Vergo, and it somehow led to readers thinking Vergo won or would have won the fight despite proof. He's probably the only Straw Hat as of Chapter 902 who's never really had a decent fight, even in Fishman Island where he actually had a fight. Zoro fought on Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, and Dressrosa and didn't go all out, Usopp saved Dressrosa singlehandedly, and even Nami managed to beat someone on Fishman Island by herself? Sanji's mainly saved people without really fighting.

Bright side though is that Doflamingo was forced to make sure Sanji didn't move before going in for the kill. Should indicate that Sanji is strong enough that Doflamingo actually had to secure him in place.

 

[kcd]

besides luffy and maybe franky we are pretty much clueless as to how strong the crewmates are, we are now 7+ years since the timeskip and we still have no clue as to what zoro or SANJI can really do and it explains why some are desperate to get to wano hoping that we'll finally see them do something ...
.

So going back to Sanji, in my opinion this lack of screentime and the fact that we dont know his real potential.

Brilliant points.

 

[afromarco005]

What is annoying is that Oda didn't really show what Sanji could do against Vergo, and it somehow led to readers thinking Vergo won or would have won the fight despite proof. He's probably the only Straw Hat as of Chapter 902 who's never really had a decent fight, even in Fishman Island where he actually had a fight. Zoro fought on Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, and Dressrosa and didn't go all out, Usopp saved Dressrosa singlehandedly, and even Nami managed to beat someone on Fishman Island by herself? Sanji's mainly saved people without really fighting.

Bright side though is that Doflamingo was forced to make sure Sanji didn't move before going in for the kill. Should indicate that Sanji is strong enough that Doflamingo actually had to secure him in place.

Sanji was severely outclassed in all of his important new world encounters, Doflamingo stopped Sanji with parasite means nothing, he uses this on many weak characters like viola rebecca, fodder soldiers as well as strong characters like Diamond Jozu and so far only Luffy could break out of it for some mysterious reason plot.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2018 ---

We do have a pretty clear idea of how strong sanji is though. His performance against vergo and doflamingo is very indicative of how much he is worth to the crew, even if the fights didn't really build up to anything. But it is true a large chunk of the crew's strength remains a mystery even after such a long time. Zoro in particular in a mystery... Normally he closely trails luffy as far as I can tell but luffy's boost against katakuri was gargantuan. It's hard to imagine zoro against that... I get the feeling that zoro will either get a similarly big boost at some point or perhaps will reveal he is much stronger than what we could have thought and the current luffy maintains the usual difference with him... Either scenario will suck for sanji though.

TBH I more or less got why oda didn't show much of the strawhats during dressrosa. It even made sense to me. You had the entire crew and on top of that the first stage towards luffy having his own personal armada. Dressrosa's main flaw is that it was way longer than it hard a right to but otherwise it was a decent arc which does a fair bit of setup for future arcs. But oda literally had no excuse to not give the strawhats at whole cake island a bigger role. There were only luffy, nami, brook, sanji and chopper after all. Each of them deserved and should have gotten a full fight to show off their stuff. Instead all we got is luffy defeating two commanders and then introducing bullshit haki powerup mechanics which I assume will continue to ruin arcs for years to come.

Yeah it is pretty obvious that Sanji can't compare to the likes of Zoro or worse Luffy anymore. But no complaints here cause they are all on their way to fulfill their dreams, luffy pirate king, zoro WSS and sanji finding all blue ( only one not including combat)

It frustrated many fans (me included) when Oda made Nami pretty much irrelevant/a plot device to beat cracker maybe we can count her getting zeus as a thing at least she was way more fun than she has been since the new world; but the worst to me was Brooke vs Big mom being off paneled, when we had so many chapters dedicated to big mom chasing the straw hats and stuff that are way less interesting, brooke never had many moments prior to this either since they recruited him late in the first part.

 

[M3J]

Sanji was severely outclassed in all of his important new world encounters, Doflamingo stopped Sanji with parasite means nothing, he uses this on many weak characters like viola rebecca, fodder soldiers as well as strong characters like Diamond Jozu and so far only Luffy could break out of it for some mysterious reason plot.

Problem is, people use this fight as example of Sanji's weakness, even though Sanji was tied up and unable to do anything. Hell, even Luffy would have been defeated if he didn't have Gear 4 to break him out of Parasite, and he'd have lost to Doflamingo if he didn't have Gear 4. Sanji was only outclassed once, and by an opponent that took Luffy to his limits.

Gear 4 isn't a mysterious reason though, it makes his body hard while expanding it, so the string shouldn't have been able to cut him. Weren't the haki users able to push the Birdcage strings without getting their hands sliced?

 

[afromarco005]

Problem is, people use this fight as example of Sanji's weakness, even though Sanji was tied up and unable to do anything. Hell, even Luffy would have been defeated if he didn't have Gear 4 to break him out of Parasite, and he'd have lost to Doflamingo if he didn't have Gear 4. Sanji was only outclassed once, and by an opponent that took Luffy to his limits.

Gear 4 isn't a mysterious reason though, it makes his body hard while expanding it, so the string shouldn't have been able to cut him. Weren't the haki users able to push the Birdcage strings without getting their hands sliced?

This makes no sense, how did jozu not break the strings when he is literally made out of the hardest possible material?

Doffy only managed to catch luffy with parasite when he was already exhausted while sanji was fresh and is constantly praised by the fandom for his supposedly good COO and speed, so yes sanji is way weaker than dofflamingo and add vergo too.

 

[kkck]

Yeah it is pretty obvious that Sanji can't compare to the likes of Zoro or worse Luffy anymore. But no complaints here cause they are all on their way to fulfill their dreams, luffy pirate king, zoro WSS and sanji finding all blue ( only one not including combat)

It frustrated many fans (me included) when Oda made Nami pretty much irrelevant/a plot device to beat cracker maybe we can count her getting zeus as a thing at least she was way more fun than she has been since the new world; but the worst to me was Brooke vs Big mom being off paneled, when we had so many chapters dedicated to big mom chasing the straw hats and stuff that are way less interesting, brooke never had many moments prior to this either since they recruited him late in the first part.

I do complain because it speaks about their overall roll in the crew. Just look at luffy, he has gotten to the point where he can solo katakuri. That is actually a huge deal. Katakuri's equivalents in other crews are marco or backham... Right now luffy can potentially, finally, go toe to toe with an admiral. And he is ever closer to being as strong as a yonko. And in turn, the strawhat crew, well, armada, seem to be getting set up to actually take a yonko's place relatively soon. Luffy already has some competent allied crews... Which means the strawhat crew should fulfill more or less the same role as WB's commanders or big mom's stronger children... And then you have sanji and the rest of the crew being largely deficient in that sense. Sanji as third strongest in the crew and it doesn't seem he could beat the 8 strongest in a yonko crew. Which is pretty bad considering luffy seems comparable to a yonko's number 2 at least. Seriously, how stupidly laughable is the prospect of sanji defeating cracker? Even oven or daifuku seem to be well out of reach. And of course then you have the likes of franky, brook.... Who are very combat oriented but seem largely inferior to even freaking pekoms. This whole thing increasingly looks like all the strawhats except maybe zoro need as big a power boost now as they needed before the time skip. And there is a very real chance that jinbe is alive and he takes over sanji's spot but tbh he doesn't strike me as someone that could hold his own as third strongest in a yonko crew. I am reasonably sure he could beat, say, cracker but that is only because his fighting style has an inherent advantage over cracker. Imaging jinbe against cracker's equivalent in another yonko crew... like vista. I would argue jinbe would be kinda boned there. So we are in an scenario where it looks like only luffy and zoro can fulfill their duties according to crew position. Meanwhile the rest seems grossly underpowered. And even then I might be giving zoro way more benefit of doubt than he deserves.

 

[M3J]

This makes no sense, how did jozu not break the strings when he is literally made out of the hardest possible material?

Doffy only managed to catch luffy with parasite when he was already exhausted while sanji was fresh and is constantly praised by the fandom for his supposedly good COO and speed, so yes sanji is way weaker than dofflamingo and add vergo too.

It makes sense when you understand what "body getting harder while expanding" means. CoA hardens body part to the point that even the gladiators could use it to push the Birdcage strings. Did Jozu expand? Was his diamond enforced by haki?

And Doflamingo praised Sanji as well. And Sanji had no knowledge on Doflamingo's abilities while Luffy did. No one, to my recollection, ever said Sanji was nearly as strong as Doflamingo. Even his defenders and fans (not mutually exclusive) agree that one way or other, Sanji would have lost to Doflamingo. However, nothing indicates Sanji is or was weaker than Vergo, there's absolutely no basis for this. Vergo and Sanji both retreated, Sanji was exhausted from the beatings his body took, and Sanji still ran as if though he never fought Vergo. At best, you can argue Vergo COULD HAVE won.

 

[afromarco005]

It makes sense when you understand what "body getting harder while expanding" means. CoA hardens body part to the point that even the gladiators could use it to push the Birdcage strings. Did Jozu expand? Was his diamond enforced by haki?

And Doflamingo praised Sanji as well. And Sanji had no knowledge on Doflamingo's abilities while Luffy did. No one, to my recollection, ever said Sanji was nearly as strong as Doflamingo. Even his defenders and fans (not mutually exclusive) agree that one way or other, Sanji would have lost to Doflamingo. However, nothing indicates Sanji is or was weaker than Vergo, there's absolutely no basis for this. Vergo and Sanji both retreated, Sanji was exhausted from the beatings his body took, and Sanji still ran as if though he never fought Vergo. At best, you can argue Vergo COULD HAVE won.

Your "body getting harder while expanding" theory doesn't change the fact that Jozu is made of diamond the hardest possible material and could not break the strings with his powers... unless you consider luffy's haki to be harder than diamond, which again would be false as luffy's hardening was pierced by hordy jones teeth a sharp/perforing attack same as doffy's.

Sanji said himself that had he continued that fight it would have been bed for him, it was clear.

 

[M3J]

Your "body getting harder while expanding" theory doesn't change the fact that Jozu is made of diamond the hardest possible material and could not break the strings with his powers... unless you consider luffy's haki to be harder than diamond, which again would be false as luffy's hardening was pierced by hordy jones teeth a sharp/perforing attack same as doffy's.

Sanji said himself that had he continued that fight it would have been bed for him, it was clear.

Did Jozu expand his body considerably? Didn't Luffy say his haki wasn't developed to a high level? I forgot when he said it, but if it was during his fight against Hodi, then it makes sense he got pierced by a sharp object despite haki.

I knew you were gonna counter with that. It was not clear at all, Sanji said one thing but showed another. He also never said he'd lose for sure.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Lol this guy is clearly having trouble understanding the difference the ability to expand make. But tbh since we are comparing Jozu to sanji... we can say Sanji was not exactly fodderised if someone like jozu got caught.
The vergo and Judge fight are stupid comparisons to conclude Sanji was weak.
I’ve said before. Just how Luffy struggled to get to crackers main body, Sanji woulda struggled against Judge. The last attack he was doing seemed to carry some weight, that’s why judges called in Wall.
Versus vergo, the manga panel clearly shows Sanji keeping up with vergo, even with his cracked shin. It’s like saying Harjudin was deffo gonna lose to Machvise, but somehow machvise was defeated, even tho the giants bones were already broken, not fractured. Sanji had a fracture.

But hey we all agree he’s been disappointing/ or Oda has been taking a dump on him.

 

[McNuss]

Lol Oda does an Arc where a main character doesn't follow typical shonen patterns but gets his character fleshed out consistently, with all his strenght and weaknesses explained like never before.

Really, Sanji is not a blonde haired Zoro with kicks. He is kind and sensible, which man are not supposed to be, but it is alright. His friends accept him, his kindness saved a country with thousand of citizen and he's got a love interest. That's character development at it's finest.

Btw if this would be any other Shonen, Sanji, and any other Straw Hat save for Luffy, Zorro and Nami would have become irrelevant anyways. Like how much relevance did Piccolo have at the end of Dragon Ball?

But it just shows how biased the average shonen reader (young male) is. I mean Oda does an arc that touches the topic of gender roles and expectations, and the community can't handle it at all. From an experimental point of view that is really interesting, at least.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

I think it might be a bit shortsighted of us to expect Sanji to get attention in the exact same way down the line as Zoro. They aren't really very similar characters aside from the fact that they are strong, and this difference is starting to show up in the way they get their powerups. I think that the more they get closer to realizing their dreams, the more it's going to show that Zoro cares more about fighting than Sanji does.

 

[kkck]

I think it might be a bit shortsighted of us to expect Sanji to get attention in the exact same way down the line as Zoro. They aren't really very similar characters aside from the fact that they are strong, and this difference is starting to show up in the way they get their powerups. I think that the more they get closer to realizing their dreams, the more it's going to show that Zoro cares more about fighting than Sanji does.

The issue here isn't attention in itself rather how the character is handled. We just went over what oda called "sanji's year" and the only thing sanji got out of it is making a cake for the delusional maniac trying to murder him and everyone he loved and hated. He didn't even fight anyone of vague importance. His biggest combat feat was to sneak up on oven. And ultimately you have the world starting to actually think of luffy as a fifth yonko and getting a bounty which exceeds big mom's #2 and meanwhile his crew simply does not match up to him at all. Each and every strawhat has an absolute necessity to be a monstrous powerhouse. If luffy is equal or stronger than katakuri then zoro should be a match to smoothie, sanji to cracker, franky should be comparable to whoever follows which should be snack or perospero and so on. The equivalent to brook in big mom's crew would whichever isn't franky's equivalent and either oven or daifuku... Meanwhile as things are sanji doesn't seem to be even strong enough to take on oven/daifuku, let alone the higher ranked officers like cracker or smoothie. It's not about caring about the fight, it's about the strawhat crew being halfway there to yonko status but the lot of them being just about worthless if we compere them to actual yonko. Luffy just defeated katakuri while having every possible disadvantage... And the only people out there that stand as high or higher than katakuri are people like marco, admirals and yonko. If luffy defeated katakuri then him soloing an admiral or even a yonko is not THAT impossible anymore. Luffy needs a crew that keeps up and so far the strawhats are not evidencing that. Well, sanji and nami did get substantial power boosts of course but sanji has yet to evidence having the capacity to take on people worth 800 mil.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

I actually liked his romance with Pudding a lot. Was pretty satisfied when he got to play prince charming and have her fall for him despite the odds. Dude needed a break on that front after Okama land. And more iportantly, peverted-creep-Sanji was getting ooooooooold even for a gag, it was about time for a change.

But yes, I was also disapointed that he didn't get a cool fight. Still, I think Oda is just saving his epic fight for Wano like all the rest. He did just get a power up after all.

 

[McNuss]

The issue here isn't attention in itself rather how the character is handled. We just went over what oda called "sanji's year" and the only thing sanji got out of it is making a cake for the delusional maniac trying to murder him and everyone he loved and hated. He didn't even fight anyone of vague importance. His biggest combat feat was to sneak up on oven.

I think you just want Sanji to be something else. Objectively, you just can't say that Sanji only made a cake. No other Straw Hat received as much characterisation in a single arc as Sanji did during WCI. That you are not content with that is your subjective opinion. There was more than enough Sanji related content that these last two years can be indeed called "Year of Sanji".

And ultimately you have the world starting to actually think of luffy as a fifth yonko and getting a bounty which exceeds big mom's #2 and meanwhile his crew simply does not match up to him at all. Each and every strawhat has an absolute necessity to be a monstrous powerhouse. If luffy is equal or stronger than katakuri then zoro should be a match to smoothie, sanji to cracker, franky should be comparable to whoever follows which should be snack or perospero and so on. The equivalent to brook in big mom's crew would whichever isn't franky's equivalent and either oven or daifuku... Meanwhile as things are sanji doesn't seem to be even strong enough to take on oven/daifuku, let alone the higher ranked officers like cracker or smoothie. It's not about caring about the fight, it's about the strawhat crew being halfway there to yonko status but the lot of them being just about worthless if we compere them to actual yonko. Luffy just defeated katakuri while having every possible disadvantage... And the only people out there that stand as high or higher than katakuri are people like marco, admirals and yonko. If luffy defeated katakuri then him soloing an admiral or even a yonko is not THAT impossible anymore. Luffy needs a crew that keeps up and so far the strawhats are not evidencing that. Well, sanji and nami did get substantial power boosts of course but sanji has yet to evidence having the capacity to take on people worth 800 mil.

And this is probably the reason why you are biased, you believe in the misconception of "Monster Trio". Now that term "Monster Trio" was, if I recall it correctly, only used once by one of the weaker crewmembers during early One Piece. People misread this as "Luffy, Zoro, Sanji = roughly equal strenght" and that is just wrong.
In the first arc that Sanji appeared, he got his ass handed by Pearl and Gin without defeating anyone while Zoro impressed Mihawk. During Arlong, Sanji has his first good feat, defeating a Fishmen underwater, but despite that Arlong only considers Zoro a threat to him if Zoro would be at full health.

During the Alabasta arc, Sanji fought Mister 2, while Zoro fought Mr. 1 and later during Imple Down, Crocodile only asks Mr 1 to join him, confirming that there is a huge Power diference bewtween Mr. 1 and 2. Then, after the Alabasta arc until the Enies Lobby arc, at least in my opinion, Robin was stronger than Sanji. I don't see Sanji one-shotting Pell.

Only during Enies Lobby, Sanji performs comparable to Zoro, but they both beat their CP9 opponents with only medium difficulty. Only one arc later, during Thriller Bark, Zoro had to knock Sanji out so he doesn't get killed. It was a dead serious situation so it was definitely not just Zoro bullying Sanji, instead it confirms that Zoro never saw Sanji to be even close to him in terms of strenght. And Zoro is pretty good at estimating people's strenght.

Luffy and Zoro are part of the 11 Supernovae that together with Blackbeard would later be known as "The Worst Generation". According to Doflamingo, these Pirates, along with the Yonkou and Shishibukai are the top contenders for the Pirate King Throne. Sanji is not part of this group.

Oda is shaping up Luffy and Zoro to become legends but he isn't doing that for Sanji - He never did.

In Wano Arc, there will be enough powerhouses to deal with the three Calamities, so there really is no neccesity for Sani to reach that Level.

 

[kkck]

I think you just want Sanji to be something else. Objectively, you just can't say that Sanji only made a cake. No other Straw Hat received as much characterisation in a single arc as Sanji did during WCI. That you are not content with that is your subjective opinion. There was more than enough Sanji related content that these last two years can be indeed called "Year of Sanji".

And this is probably the reason why you are biased, you believe in the misconception of "Monster Trio". Now that term "Monster Trio" was, if I recall it correctly, only used once by one of the weaker crewmembers during early One Piece. People misread this as "Luffy, Zoro, Sanji = roughly equal strenght" and that is just wrong.
In the first arc that Sanji appeared, he got his ass handed by Pearl and Gin without defeating anyone while Zoro impressed Mihawk. During Arlong, Sanji has his first good feat, defeating a Fishmen underwater, but despite that Arlong only considers Zoro a threat to him if Zoro would be at full health.

During the Alabasta arc, Sanji fought Mister 2, while Zoro fought Mr. 1 and later during Imple Down, Crocodile only asks Mr 1 to join him, confirming that there is a huge Power diference bewtween Mr. 1 and 2. Then, after the Alabasta arc until the Enies Lobby arc, at least in my opinion, Robin was stronger than Sanji. I don't see Sanji one-shotting Pell.

Only during Enies Lobby, Sanji performs comparable to Zoro, but they both beat their CP9 opponents with only medium difficulty. Only one arc later, during Thriller Bark, Zoro had to knock Sanji out so he doesn't get killed. It was a dead serious situation so it was definitely not just Zoro bullying Sanji, instead it confirms that Zoro never saw Sanji to be even close to him in terms of strenght. And Zoro is pretty good at estimating people's strenght.

Luffy and Zoro are part of the 11 Supernovae that together with Blackbeard would later be known as "The Worst Generation". According to Doflamingo, these Pirates, along with the Yonkou and Shishibukai are the top contenders for the Pirate King Throne. Sanji is not part of this group.

Oda is shaping up Luffy and Zoro to become legends but he isn't doing that for Sanji - He never did.

In Wano Arc, there will be enough powerhouses to deal with the three Calamities, so there really is no neccesity for Sani to reach that Level.

Of course sanji technically did other stuff during the WCI arc. He existed and breathed through all of it for instance. He also sneaked a kick into oven's collarbone. However one way or the other his single biggest contribution to the ar, other than getting kinda sort of kidnapped, was to bake them damn cake. Nothing else sanji did through the arc is even close to the cake. TBH I could even live with the cake.... had sanji at least done other stuff of importance through the arc.

Another bit that annoys me: Zeff. Is he still alive? if so, why? At least have him kick big mom subordinate ass. If the baratie does not suffer from this it will be weird that sanji even felt the need to go with big bege to begin with. At least explain why big mom has not bothered with this.

As for the bit between zoro and sanji during thriller bark... Both of them were willing to sacrifice for the crew. Kuma ultimately went with zoro of course but nothing about it suggests that this was because sanji in some form wasn't acknowledged.

As for the bit at the baratie... That is not how things played out at all. Sanji was having an easy time with pearl until gin held zeff at gunpoint at which point sanji intentionally took pearl's attacks so as to avoid putting zeff in harm's way.

As for being set up for being legends... Sanji is absolutely being set up to be a legend. And so is each and every strawhat. The strawhat crew is meant to grow to be enough to stand against yonko after all. In other words each and every strawhat should have strength befitting that or else this doesn't really work. Of course, that also doesn't mean each strawhat has to be strong as an admiral either. But each strawhat should be at least comparable to their equivalent in a yonko crew. Even if as you say, sanji isn't meant to be the third strongest, he'd still have to be the fourth or fifth strongest in the crew. Which means that sanji's job wouldn't be to deal with smoothie or cracker but rather cracker or snack (or oven or daifuki or perospero, whoever follows cracker in any case). Unless oda does not even intend to have sanji even as a fourth strongest. And even if its not sanji's role to fulfill that role, someone has to do it. Meaning that either some other strawhat vastly surpasses sanji or someone new joins to take his spot. Neither of which I would argue is a desirable scenario (at least for me). If the strawhats are to become something like yonko then the main crew has to be made out of monsters just as a yonko's. Strawhat allies will be important of course but yonko also have allies. Heck, pekoms' bounty is as high as sanji's and tamago's is well higher and even then they are far from being part of big mom's main crew.

 

[McNuss]

Of course sanji technically did other stuff during the WCI arc. He existed and breathed through all of it for instance. He also sneaked a kick into oven's collarbone. However one way or the other his single biggest contribution to the ar, other than getting kinda sort of kidnapped, was to bake them damn cake. Nothing else sanji did through the arc is even close to the cake. TBH I could even live with the cake.... had sanji at least done other stuff of importance through the arc.

The Straw Hats wouldn't even have participated in the Wedding if it were not for Sanji's decision.

Another bit that annoys me: Zeff. Is he still alive? if so, why? At least have him kick big mom subordinate ass. If the baratie does not suffer from this it will be weird that sanji even felt the need to go with big bege to begin with. At least explain why big mom has not bothered with this.

Reiju said Big Mom actually doesn't care about Zeff when she told Sanji to run away and abandon her.

As for the bit between zoro and sanji during thriller bark... Both of them were willing to sacrifice for the crew. Kuma ultimately went with zoro of course but nothing about it suggests that this was because sanji in some form wasn't acknowledged.

You make it sound like Kuma picked Zoro which is wrong. Zoro offered himself and prevented Sanji from doing so. The fact that he knocked Sanji out instead of fighting together with him means that he considers himself to be vastly superior to Sanji.

As for the bit at the baratie... That is not how things played out at all. Sanji was having an easy time with pearl until gin held zeff at gunpoint at which point sanji intentionally took pearl's attacks so as to avoid putting zeff in harm's way.[/Quote]Doesn't change the fact that Sanji was introduced as a badass asskicker but someone who is dictated by his emotions.

As for being set up for being legends... Sanji is absolutely being set up to be a legend. And so is each and every strawhat. The strawhat crew is meant to grow to be enough to stand against yonko after all. In other words each and every strawhat should have strength befitting that or else this doesn't really work. Of course, that also doesn't mean each strawhat has to be strong as an admiral either. But each strawhat should be at least comparable to their equivalent in a yonko crew. Even if as you say, sanji isn't meant to be the third strongest, he'd still have to be the fourth or fifth strongest in the crew. Which means that sanji's job wouldn't be to deal with smoothie or cracker but rather cracker or snack (or oven or daifuki or perospero, whoever follows cracker in any case). Unless oda does not even intend to have sanji even as a fourth strongest. And even if its not sanji's role to fulfill that role, someone has to do it. Meaning that either some other strawhat vastly surpasses sanji or someone new joins to take his spot. Neither of which I would argue is a desirable scenario (at least for me). If the strawhats are to become something like yonko then the main crew has to be made out of monsters just as a yonko's. Strawhat allies will be important of course but yonko also have allies. Heck, pekoms' bounty is as high as sanji's and tamago's is well higher and even then they are far from being part of big mom's main crew.

Kidnapping a useful fruit user (chopper and Carrot)
Stealing the Poneglyphs (Brook and Pedro)
Taking control of a Yonkou's main weapon (Nami)

None of these can defeat a Sweet Commander and they still owned a Yonkou's Crew.

And Tamago is definitely part of the main crew, didn't you see how respected he is even by a Sweet Commander (Smoothie)