One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[hokageji]

It is possible he can give it to someone if your saying that once he feels it outlived it's usefulness for sure and I am on your side too on this

RS is an opinion and hence its a subjective thing. Personally, Sanji should be strong enough to achieve those things without a RS, thats what i would prefer.
Sanji also hinted that he would like Franky and Usopp to modify them, meaning we havent seen the true potential of the Sanji+RS yet.
Anyways, i still would much prefer if the RS is passed onto Nami. but again, thats a personal choice.

 

[King Moe]

He is strong without it, but the issue is that he get caught being Black Leg Sanji as with his exploits already especially after BM incident, he can't afford to fight how he want openly until probably final battle and after modification by Usopp and Franky. I know one for sure he probably remove anything Germa-related, so we probably see change so over that and perhaps something to can ease his fighting capabilities more from it, but do see it temporarily thing as he won't rely on the suit forever end of the day.

 

[albertwv]

It's funny how many sanji lovers try to defend Snji's actions, when Oda himself has made Sanji look weak. Sanji is weaker without his new RS, whether you like it or not, he probably would have not defeated P1 (if he even did) without the RS. Sanji had trouble with P1 whether Moe admits it or not. So his next opponent could be Drake or another 6 FF, but King or Queen? There is a small 0.000001 chance that may happen. Moe basing it of on his imagination..oops I meant on King and Queen's "rivalry," is pure dumb. Someone already mentioned the rivalry of Inu and Nekoms, yet Moe dismiss it because logic does not fit in his imaginary world where Sanji is the king. Everyone else doesn't use facts, nobody but Moe uses facts. You try to show him references on what the Oda wrote on the manga, but Moe says he knows what Oda is thinking and dismisses the pages. Moe has seen the outcome of Vergo vs. Sanji in where Sanji defeats Vergo with CoA (even though Sanji has never been SHOWN using CoA, as of yet), Moe has seen the off-screen fight of P1 vs. Sanji, where Sanji defeats with NO DIFFICULTY P1, with unnamed attacks. Moe even thinks Sanji can defeat Doflamingo, Doflamingo who is YC level, who can still give G4 Luffy some trouble. Moe seriously tell us where you do get all this information from? Oh wait let me guess, from ODA himself right?

Find me a page in your imaginary world where, Sanji was seen tanking a fatal stab (like Zolo did), after fighting two strong opponents (not YC level opponents but still strong), and still ONE-SHOT his main opponent, and then pass out. OR when he clashed with an admiral and managed to push the admiral back. OR been able to cut (kick) a huge stone in half with no problem. OR better yet, where Sanji has shown his use of CoA. Show me these facts you speak of rather than emotion.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

Nonsense is just your opinion. Can call anything nonsense, it doesn't change objective truth.

The win goes to Sanji, yes it does.

You literally made it look like the win is `only` because of the RS, which is just nonesense. Not everyone would have won that fight with the RS.

Credit goes to Sanji AND the RS.

Point is the fact that the Raid Suit is the reason he was able to win the way he did.

I agree here or more like I never thought anything else about this point.

Aren't you being a hypocrite? Not long ago, you said you didn't care about the science of Zoro bleeding, here you are talking about momentum, lol.

Please go back and look what I actually wrote there. The post doesn't reflect my opinions of Zoro's fainting scene in the slightest. Please don't try to label me as a hypocrite on assumptions. I was merely showing Nik87 how stupid his statement was.

Would Sanji have been able to carry all that momentum if Page One knew where he was to begin with?

P1's reaction speed and other stats like this aren't known, so both side can only assume. Fact is, P1 wasn't able to block or notice Sanji when Sanji attacked him for the very first time.

You think Page One would just have stood on the spot waiting for Sanji to charge up his attack?

I don't understand? Elaborate.

You think Page One is just spinning because he wants to be a sitting duck to be attacked?

No?

You think Page One would not have been at least chasing and attacking and trying to disrupt Sanji?

Idk what this questions are about but both side are only assuming stuff here again.

Despite the fact that Sanji built all that momentum, he only crashed Page One into 1 building. Whereas... Page One didn't have to build much momentum, a mere swing of his arm sent Sanji flying through not 1, 2, but 3 or more buildings in an instant.

It was Zoan P1 though. Idk how much a spino weighs but P1 was obviously more hurt than Sanji from the attacks. You can tell by P1's facial expression how much he suffered from those kicks. He was even screaming in agony at the end.

Sanji won because of the suit, not because of his speed or strength.

"Sanji won because of his strength but he only won this easily because of the suit", is my take on this.

Wrong, it's not just a gag-scene, she saw him lol.

Is Sanji sensing Vivi being in danger and that over several kilometres a gag scene?

Wrong.

Vergo has no issues with his speed.

What actually happened was that Sanji came out of nowhere, and Vergo reacted late. It was more or less a surprise attack.

Before Sanji shot Vergo into the wall they were both clashing equally but then Sanji outspeeded him and sent him flying. Please reread the fight. It should be in chapter 580 iirc.

 

[nik87]

Actually, Vergo outspeeded Law and was keeping up with Logia Smoker, who's only significant PU with his df is his mobility/maneuverability ...

Neither Law nor Smoker are famous for being fast individuals. So where is this legendary Sanji speed people speak of? Which opponent has praised him for it or complained that they cant get Sanji because he is too fast?

Take another looks and this time read the stuff that is written in red.

I read it, I am asking you a different thing. Where is the second opponent who is trying to cheap shot Sanji, you conveniently ignored the fact that Zoro was dealing with 2 opponents at the same time. Sanji when dealing with just one - Daifuku, he eats dirt. Or crackers or whatever the ground was made of.

Yes, Sanji sucked ass when he was desperately trying to save his blood family that was about to get offed by a whole YK crew. Try again. But next time consider that you need to be rather calm to properly use CoO.

Sorry to break your bubble but there are no CoO mid-combat feats from any character(FS aside) when facing strong opponents so his "CoO specialty" is useless. One would think in such a desperate situation he would run as fast as possible to save the family and yet has shown lame speed.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Oh my goodness, back to square one. You don't even know what we were arguing about apparently. Yeah, take your own advice and don't just read what people say but try to actually understand what they are trying to get across.

Lol, says the one who replied to me? It's ridiculous to reply to someone based on something they didn't say.

I said something and you said you responded based on what other people said right here.

Your excuse was that when people talk about Sanji's invisibility when talking about the Raid Suit.

You're being a hypocrite because you tell me to read what people say, yet... you respond to my post which says something else completely. My statements were about the Raid Suit in general and I specifically spoke about both the Invisibility, Durability and Page One's thought-process.

It's ridiculous to make responses to someone based on what others said, not on what they said.

Would be like X saying something and Y says something, and then you respond to Y based on what X said.

Where's the common sense in that? Please elaborate, I'm struggling to understand the sense in your logic here.

Except I never argued about the suit not granting Sanji abilities that secured his victory in that particular battle. This is a straw man from you that you pulled out of nowhere.

If you read carefully, I never said you did, lol.

So, this is actually a strawman from yourself ironically.

Can make all the excuses you want...

Says the one who answered a response based on what other people say? You're the one making excuses.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

To be honest, instead of arguing about how Sanji has looked. Why isn't anyone admitting to things Oda could have done better since the skip

Oda simply wanted to establish Sanji as weak enough, so he can give him the RS.

 

[King Moe]

It's funny how many sanji lovers try to defend Snji's actions, when Oda himself has made Sanji look weak. Sanji is weaker without his new RS, whether you like it or not, he probably would have not defeated P1 (if he even did) without the RS. Sanji had trouble with P1 whether Moe admits it or not. So his next opponent could be Drake or another 6 FF, but King or Queen? There is a small 0.000001 chance that may happen. Moe basing it of on his imagination..oops I meant on King and Queen's "rivalry," is pure dumb. Someone already mentioned the rivalry of Inu and Nekoms, yet Moe dismiss it because logic does not fit in his imaginary world where Sanji is the king. Everyone else doesn't use facts, nobody but Moe uses facts. You try to show him references on what the Oda wrote on the manga, but Moe says he knows what Oda is thinking and dismisses the pages. Moe has seen the outcome of Vergo vs. Sanji in where Sanji defeats Vergo with CoA (even though Sanji has never been SHOWN using CoA, as of yet), Moe has seen the off-screen fight of P1 vs. Sanji, where Sanji defeats with NO DIFFICULTY P1, with unnamed attacks. Moe even thinks Sanji can defeat Doflamingo, Doflamingo who is YC level, who can still give G4 Luffy some trouble. Moe seriously tell us where you do get all this information from? Oh wait let me guess, from ODA himself right?

Find me a page in your imaginary world where, Sanji was seen tanking a fatal stab (like Zolo did), after fighting two strong opponents (not YC level opponents but still strong), and still ONE-SHOT his main opponent, and then pass out. OR when he clashed with an admiral and managed to push the admiral back. OR been able to cut (kick) a huge stone in half with no problem. OR better yet, where Sanji has shown his use of CoA. Show me these facts you speak of rather than emotion.

You first as you haven't even try to counter our past statements yet and still going over and repeated same stuff we counter. Come at us when your more serious than keep saying the same old tune over and over again like this. It's hard taking you seriously out of this, man.

Again not gonna debate with someone ignoring points like you are. Your saying stuff personal biased, not from what the situation truly is right now. Now come back when your ready to act your age and then this same old stuff we told you in past posts.

 

[albertwv]

Moe you still have not shown us any of your claims at all, you keep implying something happened, when it clearly never has. How can someone take you serious when you don't back up your claims, I have plenty of times, from chapters in the series, yet you can't show us anything. Oh right, it all comes from your imagination, we all outgrew our imagination here except you.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

Neither Law nor Smoker are famous for being fast individuals. So where is this legendary Sanji speed people speak of? Which opponent has praised him for it or complained that they cant get Sanji because he is too fast?

I read it, I am asking you a different thing. Where is the second opponent who is trying to cheap shot Sanji, you conveniently ignored the fact that Zoro was dealing with 2 opponents at the same time. Sanji when dealing with just one - Daifuku, he eats dirt. Or crackers or whatever the ground was made of.

Sorry to break your bubble but there are no CoO mid-combat feats from any character(FS aside) when facing strong opponents so his "CoO specialty" is useless. One would think in such a desperate situation he would run as fast as possible to save the family and yet has shown lame speed.

It literally hurts reading your posts. I won't bother another time. Just out of curiosity, did you finally changed your opinion that you stated in the following posts?

I think Strawhats power ranking is currently like this:
Zoro>Luffy>Jinbe>Franky>Sanji>Chopper>Brook>Robin>Carrot>Nami>Usopp
On the other hand maybe Chopper's abilities are putting him ahead of Sanji as well but if we look realistically who isnt better than Sanji... Maybe only Usopp.

@Isto Well, Jinbe's CoA is so strong that he took on a sword slash from weakened Yonko BM and didnt lose an arm and his fishman karate is on a completely different level than any other user. Imo, higher offense and higher defense than Sanji. Sanji would only win in speed.
Franky is almost a complete cyborg with reinforced body and steel arms, along with weapons and lasers. Same like Jinbe, better offense and defense and only loses in speed to Sanji.
Brook is a speedster swordsman with soul and music abilities who survived a 1vs1 with Big Mom and injured her hommie. Imo, better offense and speed than Sanji, maybe loses in defense.
Chopper with his DF utility can beat Sanji in every way and shape, whether its offense, defense or speed.
All that Robin has to do is grow pair of hands on Sanji and grab him and she wins.
Nami may be weaker but her offense outclasses Sanji by far.
Usopp loses in almost everything to Sanji but if his special attacks land on Sanji even he has a chance to beat him. He gave quite a fight vs Luffy in W7.
Carrot has electricity based attacks and quite a speed in her base form. In Su-long form she outclasses Sanji easily in every aspect.
No need to explain Zoro and Luffy as they are special type of monsters.

You need to be one hell of Sanji hater to not realize that your Sanji power scaling is borderline retarded.

 

[King Moe]

Moe you still have not shown us any of your claims at all, you keep implying something happened, when it clearly never has. How can someone take you serious when you don't back up your claims, I have plenty of times, from chapters in the series, yet you can't show us anything. Oh right, it all comes from your imagination, we all outgrew our imagination here except you.

I explain my reasons and told you past posts to you. Your the one denying not reading them and not even trying to counter them. I said heavily implied, not that I know everything. Your saying that cause you can't take a hint when someone counter you about your claims.

Are you too lazy to look for yourself and spout stuff? As you looking to be that about the situation each time we talk.

 

[albertwv]

How can I counter someone whose imagination ignores facts and events?

 

[nik87]

It literally hurts reading your posts. I won't bother another time. Just out of curiosity, did you finally changed your opinion that you stated in the following posts?

Just pointing out the truth. Sanji's feats mid-combat are not as impressive as the fandom wants to believe.

You need to be one hell of Sanji hater to not realize that your Sanji power scaling is borderline retarded.

Maybe he is above Franky in that first scaling but only bcs Oda wants to keep the power structure as already setup. He considers Luffy > Zoro but, imo, Zoro would win the fight based on their actual combat feats.
In second listing, the potential of each character is greater than Sanji's, as long as Oda doesnt make him a kicker version of Garp.

If Sanji was that strong of an individual, he wouldnt be using things like cheap shots and invisibility.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You literally made it look like the win is `only` because of the RS, which is just nonesense. Not everyone would have won that fight with the RS.

Credit goes to Sanji AND the RS.

All the circumstances came from the Raid Suit, not Sanji's battle prowess.

1. The first hit on Page One came from the Invisibility of the Raid Suit.
2. The 2nd major hit which is implied to be the conclusion of that encounter came from the fact Sanji took a heavy hit, but Sanji was unscathed THANKS to the Raid Suit which allowed Sanji to attack from a Blind Spot that led to a finishing blow that defeated Page One who was probably not able to defend himself.

Without the Raid Suit, we'd have had a completely different sort of fight. That much is a fact.

Please go back and look what I actually wrote there. The post doesn't reflect my opinions of Zoro's fainting scene in the slightest. Please don't try to label me as a hypocrite on assumptions. I was merely showing Nik87 how stupid his statement was.

You said you didn't want to hear about scientific reasons as to why Zoro lost consciousness due to blood loss and apparent hunger. You then go on to talk about momentum which is pretty much scientific in regard to the generation of power. You're using science when it suits you, but ignoring it when it doesn't. That is hypocritical, nothing to be offended about, but it's a double-standard, all I'm saying.

I don't understand? Elaborate.

Okay, Sanji activated his accelerators, travelled at very fast speeds and used the momentum to swoop in and land a very powerful kick against Page One.

What was Page One doing when Sanji used his accelerators? Spinning around on one spot because Sanji was invisible, he had no idea where he disappeared to.

Now on to my point. What did Page One do the moment he saw Sanji transform?

He POUNCED at Sanji.

What does this mean? It means if he could see Sanji? He wouldn't have given Sanji the chance to build all that momentum. He would have chased Sanji and kept the battle in close-distance. We saw what 1 swing from his arms did just by literally being next to him, he sent him flying.

We'd have seen Page One defends more adequately, dodge attacks, tank if necessary. He couldn't because Sanji was invisible. Sanji wouldn't have easily had the chance to built distance for momentum or easily overpower Page One in close-distance given that he couldn't even block Page One's attack without being thrown into a row of buildings, the fight may have lasted much longer too.

The reason why the above didn't happen is because he had no choice but to stay a sitting duck, and that's ultimately why he lost. The suit more or less handed that victory to Sanji.

Such a victory doesn't reflect Sanji's battle prowess. I couldn't say based on this fight that Sanji would defeat Page One without the suit. Even when Sanji attacked Page One without the suit or all the advantages it provided, he didn't do much damage even though it was also a surprise attack.

The Suit more or less took away Page One's ability to actually engage and really fight.

It was Zoan P1 though. Idk how much a spino weighs but P1 was obviously more hurt than Sanji from the attacks. You can tell by P1's facial expression how much he suffered from those kicks. He was even screaming in agony at the end.

Only because the suit allowed Sanji to more or less fight from the shadows. Page One had no idea where Sanji was and when he attacked him with an attack that should have done some damage, it protected him and left him open to an attack.

The suit created those circumstances.

"Sanji won because of his strength but he only won this easily because of the suit", is my take on this.

Any moderately powerful individual would defeat an even stronger opponent if they were in the same situation as Sanji. Invisibility and enhanced durability.

Only reason he was able to generate that level of power was because he had the opportunity to build momentum since he didn't have to fight in closed distance and the opponent couldn't see him anyway in order to evade or dodge effectively.

Before Sanji shot Vergo into the wall they were both clashing equally but then Sanji outspeeded him and sent him flying. Please reread the fight. It should be in chapter 580 iirc

He never outsped Vergo.

Sanji attacked Vergo while he was focused on fighting Tashigi and multiple enemies. Nothing to do with speed. Vergo got taken by surprise.

Vergo's having no issue with Sanji's speed.

Is Sanji sensing Vivi being in danger and that over several kilometres a gag scene?

What scene is this?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You can dissect my statement and it's easy to understand. It's your fault for not understanding despite how clear it was.

I merely need to quote what I said and what you said:

No where did I talk about Sanji choosing to be invisible.

In the very next post you credited his win to invisibility. You know what invisibility is in the context of current discussion, right? It's a feature, a very specific one, that is implemented into the raid suit. That Sanji can utilize if he wants to.

If Sanji chooses not to use this feature then claiming he won due to invisibility makes zero sense.

Again, this is what you said:


"Since he was one hell of a fast guy before that (Raid Suit). My post was addressing this, Sanji before the Raid Suit. Everything I said regarding his speed was about the perception of his speed prior to the Raid Suit.

He's never had impressive speed to anyone he's fought against.

That is my personal perception of Sanji's speed, have problems with that? I believe Sanji is fast, faster than anyone in the crew (excluding Luffy). My post which wasn't even directed at you, was about comparing Sanji without the suit versus Sanji with the suit and about the necessity of certain features. In case you failed to grasp that.

You are the one who said he has impressive speed, yet now you're denying referencing something you said.

You really can't read, can you...

Your entire post there was about how great his speed was. yet when I say it isn't, you fail to comprehend that just because I said god-speed which is simply referring the fact that he's not exceptionally fast, you say you weren't talking about Sanji having impressive speed. You clearly didn't realise that god speed is my point of saying you exaggerate his speed and overrate it.

Uhm, maybe because my entire post was about Sanji alone? Did I say "ooh, Sanji is faster than Katakuri, Luffy etc etc"? I was saying he is able to do certain things without the suit hence me questioning if he even needs certain attributes of the suit. Perhaps you didn't notice but I said: It's hard to establish just how much faster Sanji has gotten with the suit...

If it's just slightly faster then what's the point? Get it?

Again, that's an irrelevant point. We weren't talking about what in the suit is unnecessary, but about the fact the qualities of the suit are why he won. You're deviating from the topic.

Who are these "we" you're talking about? Are you tripping or something? The post you quoted was prior to the whole argument and I wasn't even talking to you.

You can't respond to a point or statement that has nothing to do with the subject of the point or statement, It's a pointless point if that's the case.

Choose better wording next time.

The logic here is like saying "what other character has carried a cake with their feet"... thing is only he has been put in such circumstances.

Yes, it was a great scene, but it doesn't mean he's faster than any other character. Luffy and Zoro and Brook could easily do the same thing too. They're all superhuman and very fast.

Zoro and Brook could easily cover that long of a distance, kick Oven mid-air, grab Chiffon and return to the platform in a matter of milliseconds? Wow. Sure, mate. Makes sense.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I really don't understand why it's so difficult to be honest. Do Sanji fans really think Oda has done Sanji any justice? I find that incredibly hard to defend.

If Sanji were my favourite character, I'd definitely be upset at Oda, not the fans who ridicule him.

It's impossible to ridicule Zoro or Luffy. They've both been doing exceedingly well in the New World.

Even when Sanji had a lower bounty than Zoro pre-skip, could have argued that he would be as strong as any of the Supernova. At this point, I can only believe he'd be competitive only because of the Raid Suit.

It's odd that Sanji fans can't be honest enough to admit that Oda could do better for Sanji in terms of portrayal.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2019 ---

In the very next post you credited his win to invisibility. You know what invisibility is in the context of current discussion, right? It's a feature, a very specific one, that is implemented into the raid suit. That Sanji can utilize if he wants to.

If Sanji chooses not to use this feature then claiming he won due to invisibility makes zero sense.

There's this thing called reading something in its entirely, not taking a thing out of context to trick people into believing that's the only thing that was said.

If you read the entire thing, I mentioned durability of the Raid Suit, so your attempt to be disingenuous is just proof of your intellectual dishonesty.

Only person you're lying to yourself here is yourself since we both know in its entirety what I said.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019 ---

That is my personal perception of Sanji's speed, have problems with that? I believe Sanji is fast, faster than anyone in the crew (excluding Luffy). My post which wasn't even directed at you, was about comparing Sanji without the suit versus Sanji with the suit and about the necessity of certain features. In case you failed to grasp that.

Nope, I have no problem with it.

My point is whether or not you regard it a speed-feat, it doesn't change the fact that it's not a speed feat to people like:
Judge
Oven
Daifuku
Vergo
They've never had issues with his speed.

You really can't read, can you...

And you're clearly lying because you did speak about Sanji having impressive speed here which I addressed.

You can lie if you want, but it's right here where you made out that Sanji's speed was spectacular.

Uhm, maybe because my entire post was about Sanji alone? Did I say "ooh, Sanji is faster than Katakuri, Luffy etc etc"? I was saying he is able to do certain things without the suit hence me questioning if he even needs certain attributes of the suit. Perhaps you didn't notice but I said: It's hard to establish just how much faster Sanji has gotten with the suit...

The point is that was not the entirety of your post. Your post also pointed out that Sanji was incredibly fast which I'm saying is not the case. His speed is not anything outside the speed of standard characters in the New World.

Who are these "we" you're talking about? Are you tripping or something? The post you quoted was prior to the whole argument and I wasn't even talking to you.

No need to get defensive saying I'm tripping just because you're upset and emotional over a disagreement, lol. Don''t seem me saying you're tripping or on drugs do you?

You also don't need to be talking to anyone in order for anyone to talk. It's a public forum, maybe you're too emotional to think rationally and grasp that.

It's not sensible to post on a public forum, and then question other people for responding to them.

If you wanted to have a conversation meant for you and just someone else, take it to Private Messages, that much is common sense.

Zoro and Brook could easily cover that long of a distance, kick Oven mid-air, grab Chiffon and return to the platform in a matter of milliseconds? Wow. Sure, mate. Makes sense.

Unless you delude yourself that Sanji is the fastest character amongst the SHs and is the only capable of performing multiple actions when no one has questioned or even brought up Sanji having great speed.

Even Brook is able to move at speeds that people can barely detect his Sword slash.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

There's this thing called reading something in its entirely, not taking a thing out of context to trick people into believing that's the only thing that was said.

If you read the entire thing, I mentioned durability of the Raid Suit, so your attempt to be disingenuous is just proof of your intellectual dishonesty.

Only person you're lying to yourself here is yourself since we both know in its entirety what I said.

Can make all the excuses you want, the point is every success he had in the fight against Page One is thanks to the Raid Suit from invisibility to durability that Page One didn't think Sanji would be unscathed from which gave Sanji the opportunity to attack from "another blind-spot".

Here... Right here you clearly imply that I'm making excuses as to why Sanji actually won. Which was never the case in that discussion, I never made any excuses, never argued he didn't win thanks to the RS.

You clearly pulled a straw man on me, so you're the real hypocrite here.

I only argued that your assumption that invisibility played a major role in Sanji's victory is an assumption. Which it absolutely is.

 

[afromarco005]

That's quite different as their rivalry is something else and they weren't always like that in beginning much. Glass and Sanji are facing Kaido's men head-on than them and since Luffy will later face Kaido, it make sense why they face his YC lvl people as well so not to be left behind since they are always close to Luffy in power in the Strawhats.

Nah it makes no sense, or maybe just in your imagination.

Even Luffy said that Inu was super strong when he met him in zou, no reason why he wouldnt be the one fighting Queen using your "they have a rivalry so they must fight" logic.

Sanji wont go from Flying 6 to YC1 same as luffy had to go through DD then YC3 then YC1, thats how it works in OP. Sanji beat Flying six so he will at best be fighting YC3 aka Jack but I dont see that happening this arc so maybe Orochi?

 

[King Moe]

How can I counter someone whose imagination ignores facts and events?

What facts and logic? So far you been mocking others who don't agree with you at all while they give you facts and logic XD.

 

[afromarco005]

Yeah, Zoro fainted but did his leg break or maybe his swords? Sanji wouldn't faint from such wound, he would die, unless some Okama blood donors are nearby.
Using your majestic logic, Hody Jones tied with Luffy.
If you are betting against Zoro, the toughest guy among SHs, you are digging your own grave Moe-kun. He will take on far greater injuries than that piercing from Kamazou and he will still beat his opponents.
Zoro isn't overhyped nor overrated, just telling the truth. If I wanted to overhype him I would say he would beat Kaido but even that, who knows...

You crack me up Nik I like your style