One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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Too many words to keep focus easily. But I'm saying that him having connections could have contributed to him becoming a Yonkou. What territory does he hold? Has the manga mentioned Shanks specifically having territories?
Yes it has. All 4 Yonko have been shown having 4 territories each.

We recently saw one of Shanks' in the 'Tale of the SH Grand Fleet' where Bartolomeu was making a scene (forgotten which chapter specifically).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

But I'm saying that him having connections could have contributed to him becoming a Yonkou.
And what connection would that be?
 

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During WCI? I didn't see any of the cover bring up Shanks' territory. And when I mentioned Shanks specifically, I meant it said him and not just generalized the Yonkou as having territories. Like, a picture of all the Yonkou and a character saying they have territories won't do it for me unless they say "Shanks has a territory" as well.

As I mentioned posts ago, the World Government and/or the Marines. He was able to get the Marines to stop fighting the remnants of the Whitebeard crew and got them to allow Whitebeard and Ace be buried with dignity. Shanks was also able to get an audience with Gorosei, which I can't imagine a lot of pirates are able to do.
 

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Cover story has shown that Shanks has a territory under his protection, kinda like Luffy has FI. It wasnt directly a territory where he rules, like Bm, Kaido and BB have.
So Zoro is not worthy of king but Sanji will solo King and Queen?
Thanks for the laughs Moe-kun:verily:yodawg
Bruh, off-paneling opponents is obviously worth more than murdering them brutally on panel.
Gotta believe in off-panel powers of keiku beika. :toc
 
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I wish Oda showed us more about the new log pose. It seems to be useless int he new world with Nami barely having used it.
That would've made things a lot more dynamic specially when considering Yonkou territories.

As far as what we know, all Yonkous have territories and they operate in this umbrella like pattern, or atleast controlling nearby islands or groups, typically. Shanks wouldnt be any different.
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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As I mentioned posts ago, the World Government and/or the Marines. He was able to get the Marines to stop fighting the remnants of the Whitebeard crew and got them to allow Whitebeard and Ace be buried with dignity. Shanks was also able to get an audience with Gorosei, which I can't imagine a lot of pirates are able to do.
This to me has a lot to do with Shanks personalty more than anything else. He's not known to cause havoc and is a level-headed guy compared to his counterparts.

Remember back at Marineford, he didn't just butt-in and say:
"I'm connected with so and so character. If you all know what's good for you, you'd better stop this crazy war"

No he arrived showcasing his strength and asking if anyone wanted a fight, he'd entertain them. Hence you have characters like Mihawk turning away from the battlefield saying things along the line of:
"I agreed to fight Whitebeard, Red Hair is another prospect"
And Blackbeard saying he's not ready yet to face such a powerful figure as Shanks.

Or Akainu who was running riot suddenly becoming well-behaved and no longer feeling the need to burn things up after receiving an exchange to his fist.

There's more... Point is every one of those encounters either showcases Shanks' ridiculous strength, or the respect others have of his personality.

He's the one guy who didn't want the whole Marineford war to happen before it did knowing the likely outcome and losses both sides would take.
Another show of his great personality is his visit to Whitebeard prior to the war hoping to talk some sense to the old man. We all know how that ended.
More visits recently to world powers hints at something dreary coming up in the near future.

Bottomline: Shanks is a Yonko that travels around keeping the Power Balance in check when he isn't partying and chilling out.
 
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M3J

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This to me has a lot to do with Shanks personalty more than anything else. He's not known to cause havoc and is a level-headed guy compared to his counterparts.

Remember back at Marineford, he didn't just butt-in and say:
"I'm connected with so and so character. If you all know what's good for you, you'd better stop this crazy war"

No he arrived showcasing his strength and asking if anyone wanted a fight, he'd entertain them. Hence you have characters like Mihawk turning away from the battlefield saying things along the line of:
"I agreed to fight Whitebeard, Red Hair is another prospect"
And Blackbeard saying he's not ready yet to face such a powerful figure as Shanks.

Or Akainu who was running riot suddenly becoming well-behaved and no longer feeling the need to burn things up after receiving an exchange to his fist.

There's more... Point is every one of those encounters either showcases Shanks' ridiculous strength, or the respect others have of his personality.

He's the one guy who didn't want the whole Marineford war to happen before it did knowing the likely outcome and losses both sides would take.
Another show of his great personality is his visit to Whitebeard prior to the war hoping to talk some sense to the old man. We all know how that ended.
More visits recently to world powers hints at something dreary coming up in the near future.

Bottomline: Shanks is a Yonko that travels around keeping the Power Balance in check when he isn't partying and chilling out.
Yeah and I never said Shanks was weak. And even if Shanks was connected, he wouldn't use that to get what he wants.

though, I wonder if all of that stems from what he learned about The 100 Year Void.
 

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though, I wonder if all of that stems from what he learned about The 100 Year Void.
I don't know if Shanks learned anything about the void century but older Roger pirates like Rayleigh might have.
 
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M3J

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Older Roger pirates like Rayleigh definitely did, and he was willing to tell Robin but warned her to see the world first, and that even if she learned about the history, she couldn't change it. So one could surmise something horrible happened during the Void Century, and given the WG doing everything they can to make sure no one finds out, it implies that they have done something horrible that would shake the people's faith in them.

As result of all that, I'm not sure if younger Roger pirates like Shanks were told about One Piece or what happened during the Void Century, and the WG probably know it and thus aren't hellbent on getting rid of him. Or Shanks knows but the WG know he won't do anything to rock the boat and thus, he's safe.
 

XXGenesis

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*Rolls out for red carpet*
@Hannibal Psyche

I apperciate your intellectual post mate. You have strong writing skills, you address your points and arguments very soundly.

Sadly its lost on others. I understand what your trying to point out however I happen to disagree with some of your points. I lso understand the dynamic, of what your arguing with the others and how discussing Sanji is tooth pulling these days, with so many ideas or logics that are full of fallacy, bias or simply ignorant fanatic behavior. It's too many uncommon ideas in conflict..=/

Sanji is a failed Vinsmoke Heir. He doesn't posses their natural body enhancements. He's a Vinsmoke in name only. BeforeSanji used his Raid Suit, Sanji was not seen or given by the author a serious fight. To where Sanji goes all out showing his full growth since the time Skip, or even show casing talents against opponents in a fight showing dominance or battle prowness. He has more touch and go encounters than actual full fights.

So Sanji's raid suit, gives him quite a boost. Raid Suits, are a pretty advance piece of tech that we've seen gives its users considerable power. Armour is very strong, flight, enhanced jumping, speed boosters & environmental camo.

With all this we are shown Sanji made short and easy work of P1. It was off screen but all contexts shows Sanji put a whipping on P1, and left harmless.

The nuisance & annoyance. Is discussing how without this Suit & Its specific abilities. Sanji goes back to not being impressive or a threat to Mid or High tier Pirates.

Criticism of his development as a character & how that is handled is being ignored & undermined by others. To be bias, hating, opposing fan, etc..i don't have to explain hke the script goes, we've been acting it out over & over.

Sanji is nothing without his Raid Suit at this point in the story, in comparison to the threats and dangers of their current goals & opponents. I'm not OK, with that. It's a superficial power up. To where Sanji himself doesn't possess the power himself, but needs a tool to be on a certain level.
 

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*Rolls out for red carpet*
@Hannibal Psyche

I apperciate your intellectual post mate. You have strong writing skills, you address your points and arguments very soundly.

Sadly its lost on others. I understand what your trying to point out however I happen to disagree with some of your points. I lso understand the dynamic, of what your arguing with the others and how discussing Sanji is tooth pulling these days, with so many ideas or logics that are full of fallacy, bias or simply ignorant fanatic behavior. It's too many uncommon ideas in conflict..=/

Sanji is a failed Vinsmoke Heir. He doesn't posses their natural body enhancements. He's a Vinsmoke in name only. BeforeSanji used his Raid Suit, Sanji was not seen or given by the author a serious fight. To where Sanji goes all out showing his full growth since the time Skip, or even show casing talents against opponents in a fight showing dominance or battle prowness. He has more touch and go encounters than actual full fights.

So Sanji's raid suit, gives him quite a boost. Raid Suits, are a pretty advance piece of tech that we've seen gives its users considerable power. Armour is very strong, flight, enhanced jumping, speed boosters & environmental camo.

With all this we are shown Sanji made short and easy work of P1. It was off screen but all contexts shows Sanji put a whipping on P1, and left harmless.

The nuisance & annoyance. Is discussing how without this Suit & Its specific abilities. Sanji goes back to not being impressive or a threat to Mid or High tier Pirates.

Criticism of his development as a character & how that is handled is being ignored & undermined by others. To be bias, hating, opposing fan, etc..i don't have to explain hke the script goes, we've been acting it out over & over.

Sanji is nothing without his Raid Suit at this point in the story, in comparison to the threats and dangers of their current goals & opponents. I'm not OK, with that. It's a superficial power up. To where Sanji himself doesn't possess the power himself, but needs a tool to be on a certain level.
Fair points dude!

Maybe Oda has actually been taken in by the idea that Sanji is just a cook. I'd actually like to know Oda's opinion on Sanji's development in an SBS or magazine and if his evolution of Sanji took turns at any point in the story; we do know that his editors seem to play a huge role too in how he writes and develops characters, he changes editors almost every 2-3 years. I can't help but wonder if an editor is responsible for the choices Oda has made with Sanji.
 

King Moe

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Cover story has shown that Shanks has a territory under his protection, kinda like Luffy has FI. It wasnt directly a territory where he rules, like Bm, Kaido and BB have.

Bruh, off-paneling opponents is obviously worth more than murdering them brutally on panel.
Gotta believe in off-panel powers of keiku beika. :toc
So your happy Zoro fainting on-screen and getting one-shot too? I agree.

Though Sanji coming out unscathed and defeating high-tier opponent is where its at though ;).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

*Rolls out for red carpet*
@Hannibal Psyche

I apperciate your intellectual post mate. You have strong writing skills, you address your points and arguments very soundly.

Sadly its lost on others. I understand what your trying to point out however I happen to disagree with some of your points. I lso understand the dynamic, of what your arguing with the others and how discussing Sanji is tooth pulling these days, with so many ideas or logics that are full of fallacy, bias or simply ignorant fanatic behavior. It's too many uncommon ideas in conflict..=/

Sanji is a failed Vinsmoke Heir. He doesn't posses their natural body enhancements. He's a Vinsmoke in name only. BeforeSanji used his Raid Suit, Sanji was not seen or given by the author a serious fight. To where Sanji goes all out showing his full growth since the time Skip, or even show casing talents against opponents in a fight showing dominance or battle prowness. He has more touch and go encounters than actual full fights.

So Sanji's raid suit, gives him quite a boost. Raid Suits, are a pretty advance piece of tech that we've seen gives its users considerable power. Armour is very strong, flight, enhanced jumping, speed boosters & environmental camo.

With all this we are shown Sanji made short and easy work of P1. It was off screen but all contexts shows Sanji put a whipping on P1, and left harmless.

The nuisance & annoyance. Is discussing how without this Suit & Its specific abilities. Sanji goes back to not being impressive or a threat to Mid or High tier Pirates.

Criticism of his development as a character & how that is handled is being ignored & undermined by others. To be bias, hating, opposing fan, etc..i don't have to explain hke the script goes, we've been acting it out over & over.

Sanji is nothing without his Raid Suit at this point in the story, in comparison to the threats and dangers of their current goals & opponents. I'm not OK, with that. It's a superficial power up. To where Sanji himself doesn't possess the power himself, but needs a tool to be on a certain level.
Fair points dude!

Maybe Oda has actually been taken in by the idea that Sanji is just a cook. I'd actually like to know Oda's opinion on Sanji's development in an SBS or magazine and if his evolution of Sanji took turns at any point in the story; we do know that his editors seem to play a huge role too in how he writes and develops characters, he changes editors almost every 2-3 years. I can't help but wonder if an editor is responsible for the choices Oda has made with Sanji.
Not really. We aren't biased about it and understand situation, but you guys saying lies each post on situation as if you know Oda's thought process and such. Your not helping your case and instead passing off others on your personal claims than actual fights. Sanji is fighter as well as being a cook. That never change and still is.

He isn't helpless without his RS as he shown capable without it. He already stated why he using RS, but lacking power isn't the argument as he using it for other uses than power. Oda knows where he going with his characters, nothing wrong about that. You guys got to realize you can't force your ideals on a series if there something else plan or Oda has something in mind to steer it the other way.

Once again your ignoring talks than understanding the situation. Sanji not gonna be helpless or weak without RS. Heck he easily kick PO without RS to the ground before using it to DISGUISE (Emphasizing) himself, not that he need more power. He has more power to show without or with RS. You guys acting like its like Zoro who helpless without his swords when it hardly the case at all. Really disappointing on your behavior for your own ideals than patience looking on what Oda does especially explained in the context.
 
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Well, when you stop crying and throwing tantrums, we'll see, lol.



And you're still lying.



You still can't point out where I spoke about Sanji choosing.



You're not making sense here, lol.

You just said I argued that the Raid Suit is what granted Sanji Victory. Among other things? You're seemingly confused. Invisibility is not among other things, it's an ability of the Raid Suit as is the Durability.

End of the day, it took 2 hits to conclude that fight based on what was seen. It essentially was 50% of the reason why Sanji was able to land the first critical hit.

Even if you want to get technical about the invisibility, thing you don't seem to understand is the it's the invisibility of Raid Suit and ultimately the power of the Raid Suit in general that still will be playing a huge role in the victory as was my original argument in the first place. Not like you've been able to refute that at any level.





Well, if you use common sense. The same thought process and reasoning we use to conclude this is where things ended at the banquet is the same logic we apply here. No one is saying that Oda skipped anything here when it's clearly implied things concluded there and then. Same reasoning with Sanji, but you need excuse, so you have to grasp at straws.

Far more likely that Sanji continued using the benefits of the suit because:



Sanji said he's only using it and swallowing his pride if it can help save lives. He also said if this thing has the power to help, he'll make use of it. It clearly has the power to help. The invisibility is the most prominent feature of the Raid Suit, of course it's only intelligent to use it especially given that he's swallowing pride in order to save lives.



Sanji showed concern for the city falling apart. He's not fighting for pride, he's fighting to:
  1. End this battle as quickly as possible to reduce the collateral damage. A prolonged battle wouldn't do that. The entire town would be destroyed.
  2. He's also doing it to save lives.
Far more likely he fought with all the benefits of the suit as much as people want to say otherwise.

End of the day, everything I said based on those 2 hits would still be relevant to the 3rd, 4th and 5th hit.

Hell, the 2nd hit we saw Sanji land was from a blind-spot. Not exactly an Honorable way to attack someone.



That's only if you want to be delusional, then Sanji would have fought fairly despite the fact he said:
  • He's fighting without pride to save people's lives and stop the city from being destroyed.
You got so many things wrong I'll just have to stop repeating myself. You just don't get it that you didn't have to infer choice for me to bring it up, because from the very beginning it was you who had this preconception and flawed logic that Sanji needed two hits to KO PO. Again, that could and could have not been the the case. Deriving definite conclusions at this point is stupid.

I'll give you an example: if within a time frame of 2 minutes 2 cars pass by, does it mean that during the next 2 minutes another 2 cars will pass by?

This is essentially your logic. You say that based on what we've seen it's safe to assume that Sanji kept on using cheap shots. Your example with Nami has nothing to do with this discussion. It's just not the same and even if it was the same that would still not prove a thing here. Fact of the matter the fight could have lasted longer.

Putting his pride aside was in reference to using the suit itself not fighting unfairly (I mean using cheap shots). Sanji hated the idea of using the suit but in that situation it would give him defense + disguise = he needed that to accomplish the mission. It wasn't about fighting unfairly.

Your argument that he flew up high to make the third attack has nothing to do with Sanji deciding to use cheap shots. It's simply his fighting style he has used this move against Judge and Luffy.

If you wanted to argue that Sanji wanted to end the fight as quickly as possible and therefore he had to use all of the suits abilities to have as many advantages as possible (i.e. invisibility) then we'll have to question why Sanji refrained from using it once he realized he has the ability. He could have just remained invisible to end the fight even more quickly.
 

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You got so many things wrong I'll just have to stop repeating myself. You just don't get it that you didn't have to infer choice for me to bring it up, because from the very beginning it was you who had this preconception and flawed logic that Sanji needed two hits to KO PO.
Again, you're absolutely wrong. Nothing wrong with bringing up something else if you're simply bringing it up.

Your problem is that you said you brought up choice based on what I said.

Asked you to prove where I said anything that insinuated choice, and you failed to provide evidence because nothing I said inferred choice.

It's one thing to bring up a new topic to discuss, it's another thing to bring up a topic because someone inferred it.



Again, this is your inability to articulate properly and probably failure to assess what you wanted to say.
  • You said because of what I said, quoting a specific section of my statement, that choice was inferred.
If anything, the real issue is your poor ability to articulate yourself properly. The thing is you wanted to bring up choice regardless of what I said, nothing wrong with that, what you're guilty of is saying it's because of what I said. It has nothing to do with what I said, it has everything to do with the situation you conjured. Again, it's your poor ability here to articulate yourself.

If your point was to claim that choice was a factor in the situation, then that has nothing to do with what I said, but the situation as you saw it. Factors in a situation are always there regardless of what anyone says.

If discussing Sanji's injury to Vergo, a factor in that situation is the injury he incurred from the explosion from Caesar. The factor is relevant regardless of what anyone says.

End of the day, your inability to articulate yourself properly most likely stems from the fact you clearly didn't distinguish the difference between highlighting a point relevant to the situation and highlighting a point based on what someone said.

Like I even said when I spoke about Sanji's speed. I explicitly said you never mentioned it. I didn't base it off anything you said. I was bringing up a new topic. You didn't articulate properly. You're at fault here, poor articulation.

preconception and flawed logic that Sanji needed two hits to KO PO. Again, that could and could have not been the the case. Deriving definite conclusions at this point is stupid.
What's stupid is the idea that a conclusion can't be derived.



Your rationale here is as ridiculous as claiming that this scene doesn't hint that Name's attack didn't conclude the situation. There's absolutely good reason to believe this was the conclusion to this situation because there was a major and powerful attack that gives a good impression that everything was concluded and it followed with a transition to another scene.



The situation with Nami is no different with Sanji. Sanji lands a powerful attack that easily gives the impression of immense damage to Page One which easily gives the impression of his being defeated followed by a transition to another scene.



If it were a scene like this where we clearly see the 2 characters fighting without any scene hinting at a conclusion that follows with a transition, then there's reason to believe the fight hadn't concluded and was still going on.

Like I said, what are the hints from the Sanji scene that imply things weren't concluded?
  • You can't provide any evidence.
That's the definition of stupidity. Claiming reasons that are not supported with evidence. Just arbitrarily saying it might not have finished is pointless and insubstantial.

I'll give you an example: if within a time frame of 2 minutes 2 cars pass by, does it mean that during the next 2 minutes another 2 cars will pass by?
A very poor analogy bud. Analogies are supposed to emulate the situation they're trying to explain. Your analogy here only works for a scene like this:



Where 2 characters are fighting and there's clearly no hint that the fight concluded there and then.

Sanji and Page One doesn't give that impression. It's a completely different setting.

Putting his pride aside was in reference to using the suit itself not fighting unfairly (I mean using cheap shots). Sanji hated the idea of using the suit but in that situation it would give him defense + disguise = he needed that to accomplish the mission. It wasn't about fighting unfairly.
Nope, you're deluding yourself here.



You are reading selectively because you're in denial about Sanji utilising the full potential of the suit.

You ignore where he said "if this thing has the power to help".

What are the powers of the suit that can help?
  • Flight
  • Durability
  • Invisibility is the most helpful power to swiftly defeat anyone. Therefore, it'd likely be the most used.
All of those can help, therefore, he's going to use them because he's not fighting for pride, but in order to save lives. He's fighting with pragmatism, not pride.



Again, you pull another strawman about fighting unfairly. Didn't say it was about fighting unfairly or fairly. I said it was about using the power of the suit to conclude the fight as quickly as possible to avoid as much collateral damage as possible and end the fight as quickly as possible to avoid Hawkins and X Drake.

Your argument that he flew up high to make the third attack has nothing to do with Sanji deciding to use cheap shots. It's simply his fighting style he has used this move against Judge and Luffy.
Nope, wrong. They knew where he was.

Page One was completely unaware.

All his attacks on Page One were surprise attacks. Not the same case against Judge or Luffy.

The context of the fight with Page one and that of Luffy/Judge are completely polar contexts.

Luffy and Judge knew where Sanji was; Page One had no idea where Sanji was for the most part.

You clearly didn't distinguish different contexts.
 
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Deleted member 169696

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Hm, I actually reread chapter 931 and there was this line by Sanji that invisibility could be used to help his friends. I missed that part completely so I made wrong conclusions. I apologize.

But whether the fight concluded there and then I'm still not convinced. If that final attack was in fact final then there would be no reason for the rest of the group to leave Sanji behind. If the fight have ended there and then Sanji could catch up with Law and everyone in a matter of seconds, but given that they're saying: "why do we leave Sanji behind? Because he told us to." suggests that the fight went on.

Anyhow, it's irrelevant to the initial argument.
 

XXGenesis

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So your happy Zoro fainting on-screen and getting one-shot too? I agree.

Though Sanji coming out unscathed and defeating high-tier opponent is where its at though ;).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I don't mind post like these not do I really care, how ppl want express their fanaticism.
But plz don't call others a liar...Where everybody else sees the hypocrisy, and fallacy of your arguments...ex above, straight bias. Also never does you any good from a zealous fan perspective to compare Zoro & Sanji in a competitive way...Zoro takes the lead.


Not really. We aren't biased about it and understand situation, but you guys saying lies each post on situation as if you know Oda's thought process and such. Your not helping your case and instead passing off others on your personal claims than actual fights. Sanji is fighter as well as being a cook. That never change and still is.
What lies?.... what are you t talking about.
I'm sorry Moe, but you really do just write, to write a lot of the time. & if ever asked to present evidence to your arguments, you are never bothered to prove your statements, thoughts, or perspectives and then either say someone doesn't understand the manga, or is a hater. It's just how you reach these conclusions that is annoying. You do it to throw another's argument or point aeay, then shift the dialogue. I'm very sorry but its hard for me to take you seriously, too much acting like a victim or straight up arrogance or superiority complex.

He isn't helpless without his RS as he shown capable without it. He already stated why he using RS, but lacking power isn't the argument as he using it for other uses than power. Oda knows where he going with his characters, nothing wrong about that. You guys got to realize you can't force your ideals on a series if there something else plan or Oda has something in mind to steer it the other way.

Once again your ignoring talks than understanding the situation. Sanji not gonna be helpless or weak without RS. Heck he easily kick PO without RS to the ground before using it to DISGUISE (Emphasizing) himself, not that he need more power. He has more power to show without or with RS. You guys acting like its like Zoro who helpless without his swords when it hardly the case at all. Really disappointing on your behavior for your own ideals than patience looking on what Oda does especially explained in the context.
.....yes a fan can force his bias onto a manga...Wth?.. You've been doing that for the last 4 months. Over Hyping Sanji, as if his performances has been outstanding. Then you shit on Zoro, to make it seem like he doesn't deserve the hype he gets...Thats projecting a bias, we've all watches you doing in mutiple forums, so plz go ahead and deny like you do.

Also, you read my post carefully, your bringing arguments my way I never defended or stood on. Don't mix my ideology uo with others plz...Sanji is weak w/o his suit. I'm not convincing anybody of it. It is what it is. Sanji needs a proper power up, then many will respect this Raid Suit. But other than that his RS, is kool but these power ups aren't gonna be enough[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
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M3J

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We aren't biased about it and understand situation,
THat's debatable, given how you constantly bring up Zoro whenever Sanji gets criticized. But then again, majority of members in this thread have been heavily biased, and in an annoying way. Usually ends up in another character being brought up and then another war.


Anyhoo, back to Shanks. I hope we get to see him fight and see just how powerful he is.
 

King Moe

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THat's debatable, given how you constantly bring up Zoro whenever Sanji gets criticized. But then again, majority of members in this thread have been heavily biased, and in an annoying way. Usually ends up in another character being brought up and then another war.


Anyhoo, back to Shanks. I hope we get to see him fight and see just how powerful he is.
You do realize we bring up Zoro only because they bring him to the side in most of their posts as Genesis just did early. We aren't biased, we just speaking the truth on Sanji's how he is compare to Zoro. Your debating with them so you can already see how they been speaking on their end too, M3J.

Pretty sure he is as it mention him having the highest bounty of the Yonko now after Whitebeard passed away.
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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Anyhoo, back to Shanks. I hope we get to see him fight and see just how powerful he is.
I think we'll get to see each Yonko in action before the story concludes. We are already in the Yonko Saga and have seen 2 of the current 4 in action.
I'm more interested in the final 2 TBH.
 

King Moe

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I don't mind post like these not do I really care, how ppl want express their fanaticism.
But plz don't call others a liar...Where everybody else sees the hypocrisy, and fallacy of your arguments...ex above, straight bias. Also never does you any good from a zealous fan perspective to compare Zoro & Sanji in a competitive way...Zoro takes the lead.




What lies?.... what are you t talking about.
I'm sorry Moe, but you really do just write, to write a lot of the time. & if ever asked to present evidence to your arguments, you are never bothered to prove your statements, thoughts, or perspectives and then either say someone doesn't understand the manga, or is a hater. It's just how you reach these conclusions that is annoying. You do it to throw another's argument or point aeay, then shift the dialogue. I'm very sorry but its hard for me to take you seriously, too much acting like a victim or straight up arrogance or superiority complex.



.....yes a fan can force his bias onto a manga...Wth?.. You've been doing that for the last 4 months. Over Hyping Sanji, as if his performances has been outstanding. Then you shit on Zoro, to make it seem like he doesn't deserve the hype he gets...Thats projecting a bias, we've all watches you doing in mutiple forums, so plz go ahead and deny like you do.

Also, you read my post carefully, your bringing arguments my way I never defended or stood on. Don't mix my ideology uo with others plz...Sanji is weak w/o his suit. I'm not convincing anybody of it. It is what it is. Sanji needs a proper power up, then many will respect this Raid Suit. But other than that his RS, is kool but these power ups aren't gonna be enough
Saying Sanji is 'weak' without his RS or is 'helpless' is a lying nature as he isn't like that either you didn't mean it or you meant which can lead to either lying or just ignorance as you guys are acting out as if RS make Sanji unable to handle challenges without it when it been stated he using it for other purposes and plus will have Usopp and Franky modify it so he can fight better as his own, not as Germa. You all keep missing that purposely and it's getting annoying not on me, but others who are taking against you guys on your thoughts. Also as Eiyuu said, Zoro and his fans are zealous when it comes to Sanji, so Idk what you meant there as your sounding hypocritical than factual as you can't admit on your side.

Plus Sanji is in the lead for awhile especially after this chapter with Zoro losing out in one hit as despite Sanji's struggles, we never seen him like that even badly hurt, so Idk where you think Zoro 'is in the lead' when the guys lost out two a fodder-like enemy and Sanji defeating an credible opponent being a T6H. You can try to denied it, but right now Sanji doing most work in Wano.

Nah, I write with facts and logic like the others. So far you guys are just writing just to bash and divert attention away from Zoro who originally we were discussing only before you guys try to force it as a Sanji thing when so far his performance been more stellar than his quite lately. I have prove my statements, but it seem your in denial and now making excuses not to even try to counter my statements at al these posts honestly.

Nah, never enforce my biased as again Idk where Oda will go and thus I stay neutral about it, never I said 100% it happened unlike you guys promoting and saying 'This will be Zoro's arc to shine and he be unstoppable' which soon fall flat after the recent chapters as you can't force your ideals of the story as if you know what Oda is gonna do. He doesn't play favorites and now your lashing out onto others just cause they call you out and criticizing Zoro. We not Overhyping Sanji, his performance speak for himself this arc, Zoro on the other hand, you guys are trying to overhype badly and make excuses why he lost when he admits it's his fault in same chapter. As fans you have to accept faults of your character whether you like them or not, but don't make excuses or 'reasons' on subject like this if Oda didn't hint or said otherwise about the fault that happened.

Right now you been on the side of Zoro fans, so Idk where your saying your 'neutral' about this as you don't show it. Please don't lie and just admit your a Zoro fan and be done with that as your hurting your stance more saying your more 'unbiased' when your not. Nah, he isn't weak without it as shown lately. He isn't like Zoro without his swords as he been trained to fight more physically, so he isn't dependent on it for power or fighting. It already been shown, he been using it for disguise and espionage tactics, not for needing power. It's not gonna stop him from training on his own without it nor that he won't get power ups on his own body. You guys are overthinking again on Oda's direction when it's clear it's not like that as been mention through Sanji as his character. Just telling you the truth, nothing biased about it, but even as others tell you, you still want ot ignore and choose your own 'image' on how things are regardless. Please learn to not get carried away in your own thoughts like you know Oda's every step he is heading.
 
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