One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[jaymizzo]

Don't you underestimate a butt that has been escaping gays for 2 years straight.

Should we also expect more from Sanji's observation haki? I mean he needed to sleep too, he couldn't run 24/7, could he? Must be something akin to that "evading attacks while asleep" that WB showcased.

Gonna laugh so hard when this is brought up as a potential feat for Sanji... This is getting as bad as the Naruto (no Kyuubi) Vs Sasuke (no eyes) debate that took 8 years. Good times.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If we are debating No Leg (Raid Suit) Sanji vs No arms Zoro, then what would we get?

Zoro can still wield 1 sword in his mouth and that can be devastating, but Raid suit can tank the damage to a degree. Can Sanji do Diable Jamble with his hands? Dont see why not...

And Zoro has Ashura Mode so that would give him 9 arms, minus the 2 he originally doesnt have...

Now if we *whispers furiously* "Carry the 2... minus the...."

*Ahem*
....
....
...

I think Zoro still takes it....

Or because Zoro has no arms his Ashura form is just armless Zoro with 2 extra torsos

Which would be hilarious

 

[King Moe]

If we are debating No Leg (Raid Suit) Sanji vs No arms Zoro, then what would we get?

Zoro can still wield 1 sword in his mouth and that can be devastating, but Raid suit can tank the damage to a degree. Can Sanji do Diable Jamble with his hands? Dont see why not...

And Zoro has Ashura Mode so that would give him 9 arms, minus the 2 he originally doesnt have...

Now if we *whispers furiously* "Carry the 2... minus the...."

*Ahem*
....
....
...

I think Zoro still takes it....

Nah, Sanji shown he can fight with his hands as shown with Hanze. I feel its still stack against Zoro and why we doing losing limbs to make it equal as that looks heavily unfair about it as Zoro need to lose a limb if we going far.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Nah, Sanji shown he can fight with his hands as shown with Hanze. I feel its still stack against Zoro and why we doing losing limbs to make it equal as that looks heavily unfair about it as Zoro need to lose a limb if we going far.

Not sure if this discussion is meant to be taken seriously, but...

Reitouryuu Zoro is significantly less capable as a fighter, unlike suit-less Sanji. But it's not like that's a bad thing, that's just how the things are for swordsmen in general. Unless you're someone like Rayleigh of course, but we'll probably only get there 10 years after the end of One Piece.

 

[M3J]

Give me a fight Zoro ever win against a serious opponent without weaponry and use physical abilities. Not saying he can't try to defend himself, but wouldn't put him at same lvl of hand to hand combat like Luffy, Sanji (foot to foot combat in his case), and others when he is more skill in weaponry especially on swords.

You are aware that ZOro is a swordsman, right? And that his opponents are usually swordsmen? Zoro also has freakish strength along with an insane endurance/durability, which allows him to take on most opponents that Sanji can. Luffy's hand-to-hand combat is as good as it is because of his rubber abilities, while Sanji's a great martial artist but wouldn't fight that much differently from Zoro.

 

[hokageji]

We only seen few instances of Zero Style, but Zoro knows he can't face and defeat anyone by that. He need his blades. If he can defeat someone without his blade(s) who is a serious threat we can talk. Also isn't that movie non-canon? Idk using that a way he can defend when clearly he never did during his fights with Hawkins and Kamazou to harden his skin when they hit his body.

As for Mihawk maybe he isn't 'helpless' per-say, but he us known more for his swordsmanship as his most skill. He can use Haki out of it, but Idk how well he do against those who fight usually hand to hand without equipment.

Need more evidence on both on what they can do without their weapons to see, but looking so far, not much they can do to those physical fighters like Luffy, Sanji, possibly Shanks, etc..

Of course Zoro needs blades, he is a swordsmen. Zoro without blades is beyond the scope of any power level discussion.

 

[kcd]

Of course Zoro needs blades, he is a swordsmen. Zoro without blades is beyond the scope of any power level discussion.

I kinda think of this differently, hokageji.

Old man Hyo didn't seem useless without a blade even though he was known as a 'mighty blade' just like Zoro.

We saw what Zoro did with a kitchen knife at the start of the Wano arc. What stops him from sending a slash-attack with his hand or finger? Or is a blade a prerequisite for that power? Instead of strength and Haki?

 

[King Moe]

I kinda think of this differently, hokageji.

Old man Hyo didn't seem useless without a blade even though he was known as a 'mighty blade' just like Zoro.

We saw what Zoro did with a kitchen knife at the start of the Wano arc. What stops him from sending a slash-attack with his hand or finger? Or is a blade a prerequisite for that power? Instead of strength and Haki?

That's speculation than he can really do it. If it was that simply he see no worried if he doesn't have swords, but end of the day he can't fight without them. He can take on serious opponent without them as while he can defend himself without them before, still not his main style. He isn't like Luffy and Sanji fighting without weapons. Can't put him handling top tier opponents until shown if he can.

 

[kcd]

That's speculation than he can really do it. If it was that simply he see no worried if he doesn't have swords, but end of the day he can't fight without them. He can take on serious opponent without them as while he can defend himself without them before, still not his main style. He isn't like Luffy and Sanji fighting without weapons. Can't put him handling top tier opponents until shown if he can.

Mr Moe... Been a while.

After thinking about it, I'd rather we agree to disagree from the get go. We can do that, right?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Heard from a One Piece youtuber that King's flames could be coming from flame dials...

 

[King Moe]

Mr Moe... Been a while.

After thinking about it, I'd rather we agree to disagree from the get go. We can do that, right?

You serious or joking as can't tell on emotion icon there?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2019 ---

Heard from a One Piece youtuber that King's flames could be coming from flame dials...

Looks to come from his suit than dials as can't see clearly if their dials, but could be hidden.

 

[TrueRaiKage]

Don't you underestimate a butt that has been escaping gays for 2 years straight.

Should we also expect more from Sanji's observation haki? I mean he needed to sleep too, he couldn't run 24/7, could he? Must be something akin to that "evading attacks while asleep" that WB showcased.

Really good point on the sleep stuff. Could this too be an example of another branch of CoO?

After BM and WB sleep scenes we can now say with more evidence that haki is sheer willpower. The utter will to live.

Ive been so focused on the emotional aspect that i forgot there were involuntary examples of haki as well.

Great pull @Pea I totaly forgot about those. Thanks

 

[I Am Atomic]

I was thinking about the MW war and have realised how strong Yonko's really are.

After getting thrashed by WB, an injured Akainu was able to take on all 14 of WB's commanders at the same time. And they were only capable of delaying his advance. And we see that Curiel got defeated first. So it went down to 13. Basically, Akainu could have taken all of them down.

And remember, the Akainu then was weaker than the sick WB.

The Luffy right now is about 1st commander level imo. Which is Marco's level (I would say Marco is stronger but whatever). So Luffy getting OHKO by Kaido actually makes sense.

Ok I realised that Ace, Jozu and Thatch are missing......

 

[Brandish μ]

I still think there is sea stone in Kaido's club, just at the spikes.

But don't mind the oneshot either, though I don't believe Kaido can keep up with WB at his best or most angered.

 

[I Am Atomic]

But don't mind the oneshot either, though I don't believe Kaido can keep up with WB at his best or most angered.

Yeah I don't think anyone was strong as WB, but he was sick at that time. And his haki wasn't activating properly, leading to his death. We have never witnessed peak WB and never will. So I think BM and Kaido is as strong as WB at MW.

Peak WB was only matched by Roger and Shiki among the pirates, and Garp from the marines.

 

[M3J]

I was thinking about the MW war and have realised how strong Yonko's really are.

After getting thrashed by WB, an injured Akainu was able to take on all 14 of WB's commanders at the same time. And they were only capable of delaying his advance. And we see that Curiel got defeated first. So it went down to 13. Basically, Akainu could have taken all of them down.

And remember, the Akainu then was weaker than the sick WB.

The Luffy right now is about 1st commander level imo. Which is Marco's level (I would say Marco is stronger but whatever). So Luffy getting OHKO by Kaido actually makes sense.

Ok I realised that Ace, Jozu and Thatch are missing......

I don't think Luffy's that high up yet, and even if he is superior to Marco, Marco's regeneration powers make him just as difficult to beat as Katakuri.

And while Akainu was weaker than the sick Whitebeard, he was still taking blows and fighting. My actual question is probably just how much weaker was he to Whitebeard. Akainu is scary af

Yeah I don't think anyone was strong as WB, but he was sick at that time. And his haki wasn't activating properly, leading to his death. We have never witnessed peak WB and never will. So I think BM and Kaido is as strong as WB at MW.

Peak WB was only matched by Roger and Shiki among the pirates, and Garp from the marines.

I'm not sure if Roger was able to match WB in terms of strength, tbh, but I also don't want to deal with the arguments for now from people who think Roger was the strongest evaaah.

But Whitebeard's haki was activating properly, I didn't notice any instance when it wasn't. The only time I know for sure his CoC failed was when he tried to stop Ace's execution and coughed up blood instead. I forgot if that was when Luffy used his CoC unconsciously or if someone (Crocodile?) stopped the executioners way before Luffy had to use his CoC.

Though the only other time I can think of would be when Squard stabbed Whitebeard, but wouldn't that be because Whitebeard was unable to move or react as quickly as he normally would have?

 

[I Am Atomic]

But Whitebeard's haki was activating properly, I didn't notice any instance when it wasn't. The only time I know for sure his CoC failed was when he tried to stop Ace's execution and coughed up blood instead.

That's two sentences contradict each other. First you say WB's haki activated properly and second it says CoC didn't activate. Exactly my point.

Though the only other time I can think of would be when Squard stabbed Whitebeard, but wouldn't that be because Whitebeard was unable to move or react as quickly as he normally would have?

Marco mentioned that even though WB was sick, he should have been able to dodge the blow. However, he didn't because he thinks of his crew as sons and took the blow. He wanted to know the reason as to why Squardo stabbed him.

I'm not sure if Roger was able to match WB in terms of strength,

Pure strength? Idk. But their overall fighting strength was equal. It is said in the manga.

 

[M3J]

That's two sentences contradict each other. First you say WB's haki activated properly and second it says CoC didn't activate. Exactly my point.



Marco mentioned that even though WB was sick, he should have been able to dodge the blow. However, he didn't because he thinks of his crew as sons and took the blow. He wanted to know the reason as to why Squardo stabbed him.




Pure strength? Idk. But their overall fighting strength was equal. It is said in the manga.

Yeah, and? I don't proofread. But I think I wasn't talking about CoC when I mentioned haki, just CoO and CoA. Are there instances of his haki not working other than those two occasions?

Where was that stated? wasn't there a panel showing Whitebeard's surprise at Squard stabbing him? It's odd of him to take a blow like that considering they're in middle of a war.

Eh, I still have doubts about that.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Where was that stated? wasn't there a panel showing Whitebeard's surprise at Squard stabbing him? It's odd of him to take a blow like that considering they're in middle of a war.

yeah you are right. my bad.

 

[afromarco005]

We really back at it again Monster Trio vs each other? It's clear as day Luffy is the strongest of them all and Sanji and Zoro are forever equals as I can't see other wanting to be weaker than the other and their rivalry push each other fighting stronger opponents on both sides.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Oda make them new 'Shanks vs Mihawks' of their Era since they see each other as friendly rivalries and wouldn't mind clashing it out for long time.

Sanji is equal to Zoro in your imagination only.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

I know, but just saying Shanks isn't helpless if he loses his blade. Pretty sure he can fight without as with his insane Haki, he has more surprises than just swordsmanship is what I saying.

Been a long time since I seen Yu Yu Hakashou, but don't think Kurama is helpless at base as he shown his fighting prowress many times, so I wouldn't say that as he is equal to them in many forms and stats from what I remember from his clashes with enemies.

how do you know that Mihawk is helpless without a sword? he is full of surprises too.