One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[hokageji]

@nik87

One Piece Chapter 89 Page 11

Read One Piece Chapter 89 Page 11 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

Quoting your favorite person in the world here:
"Lying still would've kept the wounds from opening up!"

Same would apply to Luffy. Yes, he did bleed after Hody's bite, but the nova part would've intensified it.

 

[nik87]

@nik87

One Piece Chapter 89 Page 11

Read One Piece Chapter 89 Page 11 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

Quoting your favorite person in the world here:
"Lying still would've kept the wounds from opening up!"
Same would apply to Luffy. Yes, he did bleed after Hody's bite, but the nova part would've intensified it.

I am not saying it didnt make it worse, what I say is that he already lost a lot of blood while Hody was still standing which he confirms with the line that he knows it's taking a toll on Luffy. In the same panel where Luffy takes Hody out, Wimpy-hoshi points out that his wounds look horrible so yeah, attacking Noah did make it worse, no argument there but he already had severe blood loss before going after Noah.
Also, as I pointed out, the plot element requiring Luffy to pass out regardless since Fishman Island arc culminated with "resetting the history to Zero" and sharing the blood between the two races.

Spoiler: Zero

 

[M3J]

That would be a fight I would like to see more than anything. Zoro is not playing Luffy's game of speed and power, combat style is fundamentally different.

But how would he land a hit on Luffy if Luffy's too fast for him? And if we count Future Sight into this (I don't think Luffy would use it here though), then Zoro is in even more trouble as Luffy can avoid his blows and do a better job of hitting Zoro. Plus, both can attack mid range, but Luffy seems to be more flexible, literally, with his Snakeman. Plus, the durability and endurance of both are on a whole other level, so that'd be fun to watch too.

Same with Sanji vs. Zoro tbh, but I feel unless Sanji gets a mid range attack, at the very least, he'd be in trouble.

And Jinbei vs. the Monster Trio. Can't help but think Jinbei has a significant advantage over Luffy because of his fighting style. Against Zoro though, it's a toss-up as Zoro isn't a fruit user.

Also, wanna see Akainu vs. Luffy just to see how hard Akainu would pounce Luffy, and how quickly. But, I'm hoping Luffy would last a lot longer than he did against Kaidou.

 

[Pirate Queen]

But how would he land a hit on Luffy if Luffy's too fast for him? And if we count Future Sight into this (I don't think Luffy would use it here though), then Zoro is in even more trouble as Luffy can avoid his blows and do a better job of hitting Zoro. Plus, both can attack mid range, but Luffy seems to be more flexible, literally, with his Snakeman. Plus, the durability and endurance of both are on a whole other level, so that'd be fun to watch too.

Same with Sanji vs. Zoro tbh, but I feel unless Sanji gets a mid range attack, at the very least, he'd be in trouble.

And Jinbei vs. the Monster Trio. Can't help but think Jinbei has a significant advantage over Luffy because of his fighting style. Against Zoro though, it's a toss-up as Zoro isn't a fruit user.

Also, wanna see Akainu vs. Luffy just to see how hard Akainu would pounce Luffy, and how quickly. But, I'm hoping Luffy would last a lot longer than he did against Kaidou.

I'm looking forward to Akainu vs Luffy far more than I am with BB vs Luffy honestly

 

[Fox666]

Also, wanna see Akainu vs. Luffy just to see how hard Akainu would pounce Luffy, and how quickly. But, I'm hoping Luffy would last a lot longer than he did against Kaidou.

Akainu took a blow on the head from White Beard, and was fast enough to melt half of his face. I wouldn't be surprised if he took Luffy down in 1 hit like Kaido did, without even using his Devil Fruit.

 

[M3J]

I'm looking forward to Akainu vs Luffy far more than I am with BB vs Luffy honestly

Can't decide, especially given how dangerous Blackbeard is with two devil fruits and the challenge Luffy will face in that.

Akainu took a blow on the head from White Beard, and was fast enough to melt half of his face. I wouldn't be surprised if he took Luffy down in 1 hit like Kaido did, without even using his Devil Fruit.

Luffy deserves more credit than that, hmph. But yeah, Akainu tanked a lot of damage and kept fighting. I wouldn't be surprised if he COULD have beat Whitebeard.

 

[nik87]

But how would he land a hit on Luffy if Luffy's too fast for him? And if we count Future Sight into this (I don't think Luffy would use it here though), then Zoro is in even more trouble as Luffy can avoid his blows and do a better job of hitting Zoro. Plus, both can attack mid range, but Luffy seems to be more flexible, literally, with his Snakeman. Plus, the durability and endurance of both are on a whole other level, so that'd be fun to watch too.

Same with Sanji vs. Zoro tbh, but I feel unless Sanji gets a mid range attack, at the very least, he'd be in trouble.

And Jinbei vs. the Monster Trio. Can't help but think Jinbei has a significant advantage over Luffy because of his fighting style. Against Zoro though, it's a toss-up as Zoro isn't a fruit user.

Also, wanna see Akainu vs. Luffy just to see how hard Akainu would pounce Luffy, and how quickly. But, I'm hoping Luffy would last a lot longer than he did against Kaidou.

I think it is way too early to have this discussion about Luffy vs Zoro, one reason is that Luffy since TS had all the panel time in the world while Zoro and all others got sidelined so Luffy has shown all he has and had power-ups while we still see the same old Zoro before TS, just Haki added.

Luffy's movement speed is irrelevant imo, Zoro had no issue keeping up with Kaku's soru even tho his own movement speed is nowhere close to soru. It is all about attack speed when it comes to Zoro, Luffy can run around as fast as he wants but only attack speed matters and Luffy's movement speed aint that impressive to present a problem for Zoro. If we saw anything from Snakeman it is high attack speed, not movement speed. Also, Snakeman is lacking power, it wasnt dangerous even for exhausted, self-stabbed Katakuri so I doubt it will be fatal for Zoro either, unless Luffy brings Kamazou scythe.

Future sight may be a problem as based on today's chapter it seems like Luffy suddenly mastered it... Let's give Zoro a fair treatment and wait until we see his limits and power-ups first. It makes no sense to compare current Luffy with basically pre-TS Zoro+haki.

I simply dont see Sanji being any challenge to bladed combat unless he has something to block the sharpness with. Jinbe demonstrated impressing Hardening against BM's blade so I can see him putting a good fight against Zoro and possibly winning but I guess it can go either way.

I have no idea how Luffy will withstand the heat of Magma Kozo but this force field may be one way to deal with it since it specifically says "blasting them without touching".

 

[M3J]

Saji was able to deal with Zoro's blades, but those were joke fights as even Zoro wouldn't slice Sanji like that. If Sanji's haki is inferior to Zoro's, then yeah, he'd stand no chance against Zoro. I still say ZOro > Luffy though

Well, Akainu can spam the battlefield with magma, no? Luffy can't keep up his CoA for that long.

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro doesnt stands a chance against Luffy. @nik87. Doesn't matter if Luffy is weak against Swords. Luffy's current skill and ability are way higher than Zoro's.

I would understand more if your stance was if Zoro was closer or on Luffy's level. But he's not, and Luffy is getting even stronger while Zoro hasn't since the TS.

Luffy's G4 after the TS put him at the top of the SuperNovas. Its a bold statement buts let's be honest. Only Kidd's development is left to be seen. He's been training just like Luffy, i'm speculating Mid YC lv.

Snakeman, would wreck Zoro! Before Luffy's CoO power up, Zoro may have been able to attempt to keep up, with Snake man's speed but, he won't be able to, if Luffy knows his next move.

After Thriller Bark & Shapody Zoro never got a chance to fully recover and continue the adventure, Luffy on the other hand went to experience ID & the Paramount War, then a TS training with Rayleigh. It makes absolute sense why Luffy came back such a bad ass.

 

[nik87]

Zoro doesnt stands a chance against Luffy. @nik87. Doesn't matter if Luffy is weak against Swords. Luffy's current skill and ability are way higher than Zoro's.
I would understand more if your stance was if Zoro was closer or on Luffy's level. But he's not, and Luffy is getting even stronger while Zoro hasn't since the TS.
Luffy's G4 after the TS put him at the top of the SuperNovas. Its a bold statement buts let's be honest. Only Kidd's development is left to be seen. He's been training just like Luffy, i'm speculating Mid YC lv.
Snakeman, would wreck Zoro! Before Luffy's CoO power up, Zoro may have been able to attempt to keep up, with Snake man's speed but, he won't be able to, if Luffy knows his next move.
After Thriller Bark & Shapody Zoro never got a chance to fully recover and continue the adventure, Luffy on the other hand went to experience ID & the Paramount War, then a TS training with Rayleigh. It makes absolute sense why Luffy came back such a bad ass.

That's why I said above, let's give Zoro a fair treatment and wait until he shows his limits and power-ups.
Luffy had time to show his limits and even obtain several power-ups since TS while Zoro didnt have a chance for anything so it would make little sense to compare current Luffy with pre-TS Zoro.

I agree that G4, especially Boundman's KKG puts him not only at the top of Supernovas but possibly at the top of the world. I dont think that anyone in the world has comparable punching power to Luffy's KKG. Maybe I am overrating it now but it is definitely up there with the best.

Still, even with CoO FS, it is not as easy as it sounds. We saw it in Katakuri vs Luffy, Katakuri knew Luffy's next moves and still wasnt enough to win clearly. I think the plot armor helped Luffy in that fight a lot but still, FS didnt guarantee anything. The success of intervention move still depends on the reflexes and abilities of the one who fights against FS.

However, we can compare the combat style of Luffy and Zoro. Lethality of swords is underestimated, no one can withstand a clean slice from Zoro, not a single person ever did that, Luffy wouldnt be able to either. Snakeman is fast but it lacks power, Katakuri openly took countless hits when already exhausted and injured, a fresh Zoro wont go down from those hits. While Luffy attacks Zoro he is at risk of getting his hands cut or chopped off.

All that Zoro needs is one clean slice and I doubt that even current Zoro without NW feats is that much of a scrub to not be able to land even 1.
There is much to debate about this fight but I think it will only be fair once One Piece ends and we draw a line and list all of the abilities and power-ups.

 

[King Moe]

We really back at it again Monster Trio vs each other? It's clear as day Luffy is the strongest of them all and Sanji and Zoro are forever equals as I can't see other wanting to be weaker than the other and their rivalry push each other fighting stronger opponents on both sides.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Oda make them new 'Shanks vs Mihawks' of their Era since they see each other as friendly rivalries and wouldn't mind clashing it out for long time.

 

[nik87]

We really back at it again Monster Trio vs each other? It's clear as day Luffy is the strongest of them all and Sanji and Zoro are forever equals as I can't see other wanting to be weaker than the other and their rivalry push each other fighting stronger opponents on both sides.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Oda make them new 'Shanks vs Mihawks' of their Era since they see each other as friendly rivalries and wouldn't mind clashing it out for long time.

If it is clear as day then why do you think people are discussing it? And it is perfectly fine to do so in Power level thread.
Shanks and Mihawk are strongest swordsmen in the world clashing to see who is better at it. While Zoro is a swordsman, Sanji is not.

There is a good part of fandom which thinks that Zoro would be able to beat Luffy and I explained the dynamics of combat pretty well why that could be so. All we need is to wait for OP to end to have a list of all abilities that each possess to be able to compare them in a fair way purely based on feats.

 

[King Moe]

If it is clear as day then why do you think people are discussing it? And it is perfectly fine to do so in Power level thread.
Shanks and Mihawk are strongest swordsmen in the world clashing to see who is better at it. While Zoro is a swordsman, Sanji is not.

There is a good part of fandom which thinks that Zoro would be able to beat Luffy and I explained the dynamics of combat pretty well why that could be so. All we need is to wait for OP to end to have a list of all abilities that each possess to be able to compare them in a fair way purely based on feats.

Going by Oda's mindset on their relations and interactions as well their possible futures.

No one will be Zoro's Shanks or even have a deeper rivalry with anyone unlike Sanji who gets to hike the most like that. Their clashes will be just like theirs and Sanji doesn't need to be swordsman to do it. Plus Idk if Shanks is a 'true' swordsman as he looks to fight without a sword especially with his insane Haki like his.

Highly doubt that even end of series as Luffy will be another lvl end of the series that Zoro can't even reach himself.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Going by Oda's mindset on their relations and interactions as well their possible futures.

No one will be Zoro's Shanks or even have a deeper rivalry with anyone unlike Sanji who gets to hike the most like that. Their clashes will be just like theirs and Sanji doesn't need to be swordsman to do it. Plus Idk if Shanks is a 'true' swordsman as he looks to fight without a sword especially with his insane Haki like his.

Highly doubt that even end of series as Luffy will be another lvl end of the series that Zoro can't even reach himself.

Every single swordsman is going to be gunning for Zoro's title WSS, he is for sure going to have more rivalaries than just Sanji. They have more of a buddy buddy rivalry. It's not serious, they just get on eachother nerves.

And Shanks IS a true swordsman. It's just the arguement that he's not ONLY a swordsman and has multiple fighting styles.

 

[King Moe]

Every single swordsman is going to be gunning for Zoro's title WSS, he is for sure going to have more rivalaries than just Sanji. They have more of a buddy buddy rivalry. It's not serious, they just get on eachother nerves.

And Shanks IS a true swordsman. It's just the arguement that he's not ONLY a swordsman and has multiple fighting styles.

Doubt we see a 'Shanks' to Zoro's 'Mihawk' as so far no one fits the bill as well have deep connection compare to him and Sanji who know each other in and out and can have big clashes on not losing out to each other. Don't see Sanji letting him gloat on being stronger than him and Zoro wanting to hear him gloating about being stronger than him and doing better as well, so Sanji will be on equal lvls and will be his 'Shanks' to him. Just because there be other people after his head and swordsmanship, doesn't mean they be as deep or have a bigger rivalry compare to him and Sanji especially they know each other strengths and weaknesses so make it more challenging for him compare to random or new entry character about it.

Of course they won't kill each other, it's the same with Shanks and Mihawk on not being 'too' serious since they always tie instead of killing each other. That what I see with them always tie on who is stronger than who cause knowing Oda he play their rivalry even to end of the series

He has swordsmanship skills, I am not denying that, but if he were to lose his blade, he can still fight is what I am saying he isn't a 'true' swordsman cause he can defend himself more even without a weapon and probably have more fighting style than just swordsmanship on hand. Just saying about it.

 

[Brandish μ]

Hmm Idk where the rivalries are coming from. Sanji, Zoro or Luffy aren't destined to fight each other. If they ever do - it'll be something like on WCI which was an absolute mess for Sanji's character for me.

They're on the same team, so it's different from Shanks/Mihawk already, as a dynamic. None of them are trying to (im)prove themselves using another as a standard either.

If we want sword fights in the SH that will New World news, maybe Zoro vs Brook will be it instead?

The closest we'll get to a parallel in power levels is Roger/Rayleigh:Luffy/Zoro, imho.

The 2 main reasons why the Shanks/Mihawk parallel won't work is that we expect Luffy to achieve a higher status than Shanks, and Luffy isn't a swordsmen.

Of course, this is a new era of pirates so they can make their own stories - they don't have to be like the legends of old.

 

[XXGenesis]

If it is clear as day then why do you think people are discussing it? And it is perfectly fine to do so in Power level thread.
Shanks and Mihawk are strongest swordsmen in the world clashing to see who is better at it. While Zoro is a swordsman, Sanji is not.

There is a good part of fandom which thinks that Zoro would be able to beat Luffy and I explained the dynamics of combat pretty well why that could be so. All we need is to wait for OP to end to have a list of all abilities that each possess to be able to compare them in a fair way purely based on feats.

I haven't seen many agreeing with you Nik.
I get what your saying but I strongly disagree with you. If it was pre TS then Yea I would root for Zoro. Even after a power up or several I don't see Zoro catching up much.y

Like I mentioned, Zoro was definitely a close 2nd. From their 1st meeting all the way up to their 2Y split. This was primarily the time where Zoro's skills as a swordsman wasn't inferior to Luffy's physical prowness and strentghts as a DF user.

Even before WCI. I believe Boundman would beat defeat Zoro. It would just be an interesting fight imo. But post TS ODA seems to be creating larger gaps in the power levels.

 

[M3J]

Hmm Idk where the rivalries are coming from. Sanji, Zoro or Luffy aren't destined to fight each other. If they ever do - it'll be something like on WCI which was an absolute mess for Sanji's character for me.

I think I brought it up because I'm interested in seeing the fights. But Zoro and Sanji do have a brotherly/friendly rivalry going on, even if it's not against each other to see who the better fighter is. More like, "I took out more enemies than you so I'm better!" kind of rivalry, if that makes sense. Different from Shanks vs. Mihawk.

WCI just had Sanji trying to get Luffy to leave by pretending he didn't care about the Straw Hats. Zoro vs. Luffy would be closer as Luffy legit misunderstood Zoro and fought him, while Zoro finally started taking the fight seriously.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I haven't seen many agreeing with you Nik.
I get what your saying but I strongly disagree with you. If it was pre TS then Yea I would root for Zoro. Even after a power up or several I don't see Zoro catching up much.y

Like I mentioned, Zoro was definitely a close 2nd. From their 1st meeting all the way up to their 2Y split. This was primarily the time where Zoro's skills as a swordsman wasn't inferior to Luffy's physical prowness and strentghts as a DF user.

Even before WCI. I believe Boundman would beat defeat Zoro. It would just be an interesting fight imo. But post TS ODA seems to be creating larger gaps in the power levels.

The sad part about the whole situation is that both Zoro and Sanji could use the time after the reunion to train, improve on their haki and so on. Instead — they're just chilling. Even now when they're facing their strongest adversary so far the only one who seems to understand the importance of training is Luffy.

At least Sanji had his fights where he struggled, where he had to push himself further, whereas Zoro haven't had a single serious challenge in the NW. So just with that alone I'd say that Luffy has gotten considerably stronger since the reunion, Sanji has gotten somewhat stronger, while Zoro hasn't gotten any stronger.

And that applies to everyone else too, except for Nami and Brook.

 

[Brandish μ]

More like, "I took out more enemies than you so I'm better!" kind of rivalry, if that makes sense.

For me, this is closer to a gag than a serious rivalry. Idk if gag is the right word but something that isn't serious. It's not something deep in their character to compare strength, or use each other as a goal/standard etc.