One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Even though the wounds from Hodi was affecting Luffy, he didn't show any sign of fainting until he knew Fishman Island and everyone were completely safe, and it can be argued that he fainted only because of the exertion against the ship as that'd have caused him to lose more blood.

Did Zoro show any signs of fainting before everyone(Hiyori and O-Toko) was safe and before he saw Gyukimaru turn his back to walk away?

Zoro seeing Gyukimaru turning his back and walking away is the exact same thing as Luffy seeing Noah stopped. One Gatling attack is not what made Luffy pass out, it's the fight with Hody - which Hody confirms with his comment about his attack talking a toll on Luffy.

Regarding other SH members, I am interested to see all of them at limit after TS but combat wise I am hyped the most for Franky and Chopper.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That alone makes me realize there's no point in reading any further or arguing when you'll twist what I said or make up your own interpretation. I never said Noah made him bleed, it just made him bleed out even worse than he would have if he just relaxed. It's why Chopper yells at his patients to not move or keep the bandages on, so they don't aggravate their wounds more or bleed more.

he lost consciousness because he lost too much blood trying to break up Noah

Well, you're clearly trying to attribute his loss of blood to Noah when the fact is he was already bleeding:

1. Exerting himself before Noah.
2. He was already moving before Noah.
3. He was already aggravating his wounds more before Noah.

How do you know he won't have passed out right after Hody? You don't know that. That's simply a fact. You'd be lying if you said you knew for a 100% sure that Luffy wouldn't lose consciousness. Fact is he was bleeding, therefore, it was likely that he was going to lose consciousness. Just because he stayed up a bit longer only proves his will power and more so since he only gave up consciousness only after the job was done.

It's no different to Zoro. He got stabbed.

1. He exerted himself fighting Kamazo.
2. He aggravated his wound fighting Kamazo.
3. He turned to face Gyukimaru, he walked away, and then lost consciousness which implies like Luffy, he only let himself get lulled into unconsciousness because he'd finished protecting those he wanted after winning the fight.

A stab injury doesn't necessarily have to bleed more to bleed someone into unconsciousness.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2019 ---

Zoro definitely doesn't look like he's about to lose consciousness. If Oda had skipped at this panel, we'd have all been thinking that Zoro had been fighting with Gyukimaru until he shed some more light.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Zoro definitely doesn't look like he's about to lose consciousness. If Oda had skipped at this panel, we'd have all been thinking that Zoro had been fighting with Gyukimaru until he shed some more light.

But in the next few panels he doesn't look like he's willingly allowing himself to faint either.

It doesn't seem to be the case where he could avoid fainting. If anything it seems more like he wanted to follow Gyukimaru to get Shusui back, but couldn't.

Regarding other SH members, I am interested to see all of them at limit after TS but combat wise I am hyped the most for Franky and Chopper.

Franky yes, lots of hype, Chopper not so much. The one who seems kinda forgotten now is Usopp, who also happens to be my favorite character by the way. Was it Oda in SBS who said that post-timeskip Usopp is as strong as pre-timeskip Zoro? And he's getting even stronger, plus he's a sharp-witted fighter who unlike the rest of the SH outside of the monster trio knows haki. Albeit only observation, but still...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But in the next few panels he doesn't look like he's willingly allowing himself to faint either.

It doesn't seem to be the case where he could avoid fainting. If anything it seems more like he wanted to follow Gyukimaru to get Shusui back, but couldn't.

It didn't look like he wanted to follow. Usually when people are losing consciousness and want to go after someone, they tend to stretch an arm, tell the person to wait, or make a step towards the person, etc. There's no such implication.

He defeated Kamazou, made a comment about how he got injured before the battle and only lost consciousness only after he walked away.

Fact he knows there's a battle coming soon would imply he let himself lose consciousness because he would need to recover somewhat instead of getting into a serious fight.

And to be honest, it probably isn't about choice. Losing consciousness is inevitable. Luffy was going to inevitably lose consciousness from losing blood and so was Zoro. The only thing they can do is fight against losing consciousness, it's a mind over body situation. The body will give out if the mind isn't strong enough to endure the pain. The losing consciousness is inevitable, the staying conscious is just prolonging the inevitable. No different to hanging from a rope, can hold on to hit for however long one can endure the pain and struggle, but they're going to fall eventually.

Regardless of whether anyone wants to argue that he fainted voluntarily or not, doesn't change the fact that he won if anyone wants to argue that. It's simply a lost cause.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

He defeated Kamazou, made a comment about how he got injured before the battle and only lost consciousness only after he walked away.

Fact he knows there's a battle coming soon would imply he let himself lose consciousness because he would need to recover somewhat instead of getting into a serious fight.

Yeah, seems to be the case. Ok, I change my mind, doesn't seem to be that big of an issue when you look at it from this perspective...

 

[nik87]

Franky yes, lots of hype, Chopper not so much. The one who seems kinda forgotten now is Usopp, who also happens to be my favorite character by the way. Was it Oda in SBS who said that post-timeskip Usopp is as strong as pre-timeskip Zoro? And he's getting even stronger, plus he's a sharp-witted fighter who unlike the rest of the SH outside of the monster trio knows haki. Albeit only observation, but still...

The reason why I expect much from Chopper here is because who else should shine in the land of Zoans if not our lil Zoan Choppaemon. I wouldnt be surprised if he comes up with new transformation or improves himself by fighting other Zoans.
Usopp will probably shine too but I expect greatness from him on Elpabh, the "land of his dreams".

Regarding Zoro, the reason why he passed out that makes sense the most to me is plot element. If he hadnt passed out he would probably fight Benkei guy and perhaps Oda wants that to conclude somewhere else or wants to make him Zoro's follower or whatever and he also needs to learn Shusui's location before he defeats Benkei guy if that's hows it supposed to go down.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

The reason why I expect much from Chopper here is because who else should shine in the land of Zoans if not our lil Zoan Choppaemon. I wouldnt be surprised if he comes up with new transformation or improves himself by fighting other Zoans.
Usopp will probably shine too but I expect greatness from him on Elpabh, the "land of his dreams".

I don't expect new transformations unless it's sulong. But I can see electro as a possible power-up.

Regarding Zoro, the reason why he passed out that makes sense the most to me is plot element. If he hadnt passed out he would probably fight Benkei guy and perhaps Oda wants that to conclude somewhere else or wants to make him Zoro's follower or whatever and he also needs to learn Shusui's location before he defeats Benkei guy if that's hows it supposed to go down.

Fair enough.

 

[nik87]

I don't expect new transformations unless it's sulong. But I can see electro as a possible power-up.

I am not sure if Chopper qualifies for such power-ups since he isnt a mink.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I am not sure if Chopper qualifies for such power-ups since he isnt a mink.

But he's got fur though.

Also, on a side note... I wish there were a dolphin mink . Dolphins are mammals and actually have hair (but to a much lesser degree than most mammals). It'd be fun as hell especially with the sounds they make. Boy, Oda could bring so much comedy with a character like that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Does everyone consider Monster Point Choppers awakening form?

 

[Fox666]

Does everyone consider Monster Point Choppers awakening form?

Although that was never confirmed by any official source, it's quite obvious...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Although that was never confirmed by any official source, it's quite obvious...

I'm just interested that it hasn't been addressed

 

[nik87]

I dont know, probably not. We dont know if Awakened Zoan means another form which in Chopper's case would be Monster Point or he can be awakened Zoan in all forms thus making MP not awakened.

 

[XXGenesis]

Does everyone consider Monster Point Choppers awakening form?

Everyone? Or anyone?

I think its a possibility that it is. But it's not likely imo because Chopper has manipulated his DF powers, with drugs.

So maybe a 50/50 possibility.

Does anyone think Crocodile's Left hand drying stuff up to sand an awakening power?
I personally think so, especially with him seeing to have knowledge of such abilities. When he mentioned the beast guards abilities in imple down.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Everyone? Or anyone?

I think its a possibility that it is. But it's not likely imo because Chopper has manipulated his DF powers, with drugs.

So maybe a 50/50 possibility.

Does anyone think Crocodile's Left hand drying stuff up to sand an awakening power?
I personally think so, especially with him seeing to have knowledge of such abilities. When he mentioned the beast guards abilities in imple down.

Chopper's ability is one of the most complex abilities to understand. As far as I can see, it's based on evolution or related to it. Without really understanding the fundamentals of the ability, it's hard to say what exactly Awakening would do. We still as far as I can recall have not been explained as to why he has Kung Fu point, that was never a point he had access to before the skip.

Crocodile, I wouldn't necessarily say he's awakened because the ability of his sand is to absorb moisture. If Crocodile were awakened, I'd expect he'd be able to perform gigantic sand attacks since his ability is fundamentally the ability to produce sand to manipulate. Pre-Awakened, he'd produce a certain amount while he should be producing a lot of Sand after Awakening which he'd be able to manipulate.

I'd imagine Paramecia are the only ones who can transmute their ability into things to manipulate (like Joker and Katakuri who produce things to manipulate fundamentally) whereas I'd expect Logia to produce without transmutation to manipulate.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Chopper's ability is one of the most complex abilities to understand. As far as I can see, it's based on evolution or related to it. Without really understanding the fundamentals of the ability, it's hard to say what exactly Awakening would do. We still as far as I can recall have not been explained as to why he has Kung Fu point, that was never a point he had access to before the skip.

Each of Chopper's point takes advantage of a certain aspect of his human/reindeer nature.

Normally we'd expect to see just three transformation points, but Chopper has 7. That's a lot.

Kung Fu point came as a replacement for the arm point and is much more useful as it makes him a decent combatant overall not just for dealing a few powerful blows.

What strikes me as odd is how his additional points don't require a rumble ball anymore. His body got used to these transformations?

Anyhow with this secret knowledge that Chopper has he could easily make a fortune by selling rumble balls on amazonlily.com.

PS: Nami should be scolding him for not using this opportunity.

 

[hokageji]

Does everyone consider Monster Point Choppers awakening form?

Considering how Chopper's monster point matches the awakened prisoners of Impel Down, its highly possible that it is awakening. Furthermore, Impel Down creatures seemed to have lost their real body senses, so its almost like they cannot revert back to their human form. Perhaps the awakening is injected forcefully?
I had an argument with HP some while ago about these, where i presented that usage of awakening could have some side effects, so thats another thing...

Good job changing the topic, i am sure i speak for everyone here

 

[Fallou]

@Hannibal Psyche Doesn't Crocodile says "second-rate" pirates though? Or were you quoting another passage? Anyway, the thing is, given where we're at in terms of general plot progression, Luffy probably will not lose to Yonkous or Admirals (except momentarily, like with Kaido), it wouldn't make any sense. Oda wants to finish the damn story, and for that Luffy needs to find OP and become PK. So he's gotta win the fights. If he was pitted against BM right now, he would probably win, because what would be the point otherwise? Oda would just have him power up during the fight or something, and maybe win in extremis, but win he would.
I don't wanna read a shonen in which the MC keeps losing, that'd suck.
Nobody would read the damn thing.
And who would wanna draw such a manga, seriously? How depressing...

 

[nik87]

@fallou I dont know man, this one-hit against Kaido was like a breath of fresh air, at least for me. Luffy was getting cocky and lucky and managed to get out of fights which he shouldn't have been able to. The fight against Katakuri was what became too much for me and the fact that he so easily messed with Yonko's forces and got out without any serious consequences. This loss against Kaido is reality catching up to Luffy and he evaded it for too long.

He can keep winning, yes but to keep the power level progression believable he cannot do it in 1vs1 scenarios, at least against Yonkos and Admirals, not yet.

 

[Fallou]

I can understand that someone would feel the way you do ^^
To me the worst-case scenario would really be BM fighting Kaido, weakening him, and then Luffy+a lot of others manage to defeat him collectively...
The only collective take-down I would stand is one by the SH crew only. No Law, no Minks, no Samurai, just good old crew, vs a non-weakened Kaido. I feel one of the greatest downsides of the NW thus far is the demultiplication of side characters, even though I get that they're necessary for the final battle.
I miss when it was "just" the crew.
I mean I know it almost never really was just the crew, they almost always had help and allies, but y'all know what I mean. Less Kiros, Dog-dude, Germa (seriously what was up with that), Happo navy, samuraï, etc. And more Franky.