I agree that for the amount of characters he has he's done an okay job. The problem is that he shouldn't have so many named characters with prominent design. It's just bloat.
"4Eyes made the point that when character develops the others are put on hold and its just not true". It is true. You're listing pairs of people that grew together, which is purposely ignoring the point he's making. Which is that when it's a Deku-Bakugou arc, Kaminari for example will literally be a static character. When it's a Shoto-Momo arc you can expect Kouda to literally do nothing. Characters (usually in groups of 1 to 2) will get their brief spotlight and then be forgotten for 50 chapters. This much is a fact.
If he didn't have that many characters then ppl like you would be complaining that the school setting isn't realistic lol. I'm not ignoring the point he's making, I'm counter arguing that characters do grow together (because they have... thats a fact). I'm not sure what you guys are arguing here. Do the characters develop? Yes. Are they growing together? Yes. Listing a random character after brushing off my example, isn't really disproving my point, Because they obviously ALL aren't going to get development at the same time, in fact its kinda weird because I'm pretty sure you do that with no other series. Ok Kaminari is so far static but that doesn't affect the develop other characters have received. Will Kaminari eventaully get development of course, but that doesn't mean its taking away from others or Horikoshis ignoring him lol
DB and Naruto did really well with their cast of characters but eventually none of them mattered because of power creep of the main characters. I remember when Dragonball was mostly martial arts, characters rarely used ki blasts and didn't fight in the air
Weirdly I feel like Gintama's probably the long runner that handled its side characters best. It spends far too much time on side characters if anything which is why it's taking so long to end, Sorachi's given full closure to to pretty much every mildly important character.
Also unrelated side note but I'm so glad Ufotable got Kimetsu, my god that new episode
If he didn't have that many characters then ppl like you would be complaining that the school setting isn't realistic lol. I'm not ignoring the point he's making, I'm counter arguing that characters do grow together (because they have... thats a fact). I'm not sure what you guys are arguing here. Do the characters develop? Yes. Are they growing together? Yes. Listing a random character after brushing off my example, isn't really disproving my point, in fact its kinda weird because I'm pretty sure you do that with no other series. Ok Kaminari is so far static but that doesn't affect the develop other characters have received. Will Kaminari eventaully get development of course, but that doesn't mean its taking away from others or Horikoshis ignoring him lol
Literally no one would complain that the school setting isn't realistic due to that. Because it's already unrealistic for many other reasons. Just a few major examples: No one knew any third years until Mirio arc. No second-years exist, period. As an aside, now do you see what we mean by, Horikoshi only gives characters spotlight when it's their arc and then forgets about them?
I agree with you. It's a fact that characters' relationships have developed.
What 4Eyes is arguing is so simple I don't understand how you can still not get it. When a character is not the focus of the story all of the other characters are treated as useless. There's no real dynamic between the characters unless they are the focus. They feel fake and there's no interaction.
What other manga have you read and what are your favorites? Maybe this will reveal that our tastes are just different, and we can probably end this conversation at that. But if you've at least read some shonen like World Trigger, Kimetsu no Yaiba, and Act Age, you can see that even though the focus is on a few characters, the side characters always playirreplaceable roles. If they didn't, they would feel pointless. Which is how Kaminari, Kouda, and half of 1-A and 95% of 1-B feel to me.
Weirdly I feel like Gintama's probably the long runner that handled its side characters best. It spends far too much time on side characters if anything which is why it's taking so long to end, Sorachi's given full closure to to pretty much every mildly important character.
Also unrelated side note but I'm so glad Ufotable got Kimetsu, my god that new episode
Weirdly I feel like Gintama's probably the long runner that handled its side characters best. It spends far too much time on side characters if anything which is why it's taking so long to end, Sorachi's given full closure to to pretty much every mildly important character.
Also unrelated side note but I'm so glad Ufotable got Kimetsu, my god that new episode
I don't think it takes "too long" to spend on side characters. The whole point of Gintama is that you fall in love with all of the characters. And it's an actually well-written (amazingly written!) character-based stories. Spending time on side characters is the soul of Gintama, saying it takes too long on them is equal to saying the entire series is too long. And if you believe that as well, that's fine, I don't feel that way though.
Literally no one would complain that the school setting isn't realistic due to that. Because it's already unrealistic for many other reasons. Just a few major examples: No one knew any third years until Mirio arc. No second-years exist, period. As an aside, now do you see what we mean by, Horikoshi only gives characters spotlight when it's their arc and then forgets about them?
I agree with you. It's a fact that characters' relationships have developed.
What 4Eyes is arguing is so simple I don't understand how you can still not get it. When a character is not the focus of the story all of the other characters are treated as useless. There's no real dynamic between the characters unless they are the focus. They feel fake and there's no interaction.
What other manga have you read and what are your favorites? Maybe this will reveal that our tastes are just different, and we can probably end this conversation at that. But if you've at least read some shonen like World Trigger, Kimetsu no Yaiba, and Act Age, you can see that even though the focus is on a few characters, the side characters always playirreplaceable roles. If they didn't, they would feel pointless. Which is how Kaminari, Kouda, and half of 1-A and 95% of 1-B feel to me.
Yes they would lol. I've been following this series since it started, ppl complain about literally everything. I feel like you are just arguing for arguing sake and just providing pointless criticisms. How is not meeting any third years till the Mirio arc and no second years yet a issue? What just so Horikoshi can introduce them and you people will just complain more and more about how all of them aren't getting development? How are you saying there's no dynamic unless they are the focus, Horikoshi is always focusing on their battles, giving them characterization, showing off their abilities, their motivations, how they're working on their abilities etc. This is really just a pointless argument, because its obvious that you really just dont like the series and either sped read and just dont care about the material at hand (which is fine). You really mention Kimetsu no Yaiba when MHA side characters have done more than KnY have lol.
What deep have kimetsu cast? The only one who had a good character development is Zenitsu...
I think the ongoing jump series with the best suporting cast is Haikyuu and surprisingly... Jujutsu (and I find in general my least favourite battle shonen in the moment)
Muichiro has good character development but yeah other than those 2 the Kimetsu cast arent developed that much. Kimetsu has a lot of likable characters which is subjective tbf.
Definitely any good sports team manga is going to inherently have a strong supporting cast. Haikyuu & HZ (pre-pro saga) are up there.
Yes they would lol. I've been following this series since it started, ppl complain about literally everything. I feel like you are just arguing for arguing sake and just providing pointless criticisms. How is not meeting any third years till the Mirio arc and no second years yet a issue? What just so Horikoshi can introduce them and you people will just complain more and more about how all of them aren't getting development? How are you saying there's no dynamic unless they are the focus, Horikoshi is always focusing on their battles, giving them characterization, showing off their abilities, their motivations, how they're working on their abilities etc. This is really just a pointless argument, because its obvious that you really just dont like the series and either sped read and just dont care about the material at hand (which is fine). You really mention Kimetsu no Yaiba when MHA side characters have done more than KnY have lol.
Okay I'm done, since your reading comprehension seriously needs work, so there's no need to belabor this.
I'll just point out before I end this, that you totally missed the point... again. I said this. "Literally no one would complain that the school setting isn't realistic due to that. Because it's already unrealistic for many other reasons." Which means that the school setting is already unrealistic so all that would happen is that it becomes a bit more unrealistic.
I am definitely not arguing just for argument's sake. And I don't think these pointless at all, in fact I think these are very reasonable concerns.
No third years and no second years is an issue because it's not realistic that there's no senpai-kouhai interactions. Horikoshi just couldn't be assed to write any until it came to him that he wanted to do a story with third-years. This is relevant because you said that the school setting is realistic, when it clearly isn't.
I like the series, and have read it (and DIDN'T speedread), and reread it once or twice (I stopped doing rereads after the Overhaul arc started since the quality got noticeably lowered), and watched the anime as well. That's like going through the source material around 3 to 4 times. I used to really like it, now I just kinda of like it.
"How are you saying there's no dynamic unless they are the focus, Horikoshi is always focusing on their battles, giving them characterization, showing off their abilities, their motivations, how they're working on their abilities etc." Give me an example of this. While I wait I'll give you a counterexample.
Stain arc. Only Deku, Iida and Todoroki are relevant. The other characters are reduced to watching from a screen.
Or how about Overhaul arc. The focus was clearly on Mirio, Deku, Amajiki, and Kirishima. Surprise surprise as the girls' fights get totally offscreened and they could have basically not have participated in the arc and nothing would have changed.
"You really mention Kimetsu no Yaiba when MHA side characters have done more than KnY have lol." I don't know what you mean by "done". If you mean battle/plot accomplishments I think that is a cheap measurement tool. For example Goku saved the Earth, then the universe, multiple times. He's "done" more than any shonen character (except Saitama). But if by "done" you mean "had good character arcs, were featured throughout the series, and had a lasting impact": (And these are just the A+ examples, if you want to include A and B grade examples there are a lot more.)
Muichiro has good character development but yeah other than those 2 the Kimetsu cast arent developed that much. Kimetsu has a lot of likable characters which is subjective tbf.
Definitely any good sports team manga is going to inherently have a strong supporting cast. Haikyuu & HZ (pre-pro saga) are up there.
Oh yeah, Muichiro also have a good development during his arc.
But yeah, Inosuke and Rengoku are likable, and Love , rock pillar and Kanae have good backstory, but I didn't see a develop in them.
Absolutely wasteman tweet. That's a terribly reductionist view of a pretty strong start. It's equivalent to argument via memes. "Hey guys [funny thing] so I'm right!"
That doesn't guarantee that Samurai 8 will be good though. The series is 3-4 chapters old right now, that's all there is, so that's what people are using to form an opinion on whether the series is good or not. If I don't think the current chapters are good, why can't I say that the series isn't good? I've never even read Naruto, so I don't see why I should be basing my opinion on Samurai 8 on that.
If it turns out good, that's great, but it doesn't change the fact that Samurai 8 had a shaky start.
Oh yeah, Muichiro also have a good development during his arc.
But yeah, Inosuke and Rengoku are likable, and Love , rock pillar and Kanae have good backstory, but I didn't see a develop in them.
Backstory is still giving them character depth and explaining their motivations. Which BnHA is utterly failing to do.
Why am I so salty about this? Well, for one, Horikoshi teased three years ago that he had a full story planned out for Shoji, and what led to him having just a minimalist personality/room. And I was so hyped for that. Well after 150 chapters of no delivery I hope you can understand the disappointment... obviously the following are my own opinion, but I hope you can at least understand my feelings.
In 200+ chapters we've still yet to see any human development or growth/motivations from backstory (by human I mean, technique development doesn't count) from Sato, Koda, Kaminari, Ojiro, Shoji, Sero, Hagakure, Mina, and Mineta. (9/20).
Kirishima's backstory was okay. Aoyama's "don't be a pussy no more" moment was okay. Momo's "muh self-esteem" was okay. Tokoyami's "I CAN'T C-C-CONTROL THE DARKNESS WITHIN" was okay. (It was epic as fuck tho.) (4/20)
Uraraka's "I fight for money for my parents!" Was a bit above okay. Same for Asui's "sorry guys for stopping you". Same for Jiro's getting over her embarrassment and singing proudly. (3/20)
Iida's brother arc was really good. Midoriya and All Might's relationship is really good. (But Mido overall is trash, but I can overlook that for now.) Todoroki's backstory was really good. Bakugou's "I'm not a villain" and his All Might fanboyism was really good. (4/20)
To me BnHA is wasted potential: the series. That's why I'm so butthurt.
e.g. Imagine actually exploring Ojiro's mentality and his struggles having such an average quirk. Instead he's treated as a joke.
While I'm at it I'll continue the bitching. Manga Fukidashi is an example of where Horikoshi completely lost control. We're operating under the assumption that quirks are genetic, with scientific mumbo jumbo we can make nullifying bullets, etc. It's not fantasy, its science fiction so to speak. And then you have a guy whose head is a speech bubble.
Okay I'm done, since your reading comprehension seriously needs work, so there's no need to belabor this.
I'll just point out before I end this, that you totally missed the point... again. I said this. "Literally no one would complain that the school setting isn't realistic due to that. Because it's already unrealistic for many other reasons." Which means that the school setting is already unrealistic so all that would happen is that it becomes a bit more unrealistic.
I am definitely not arguing just for argument's sake. And I don't think these pointless at all, in fact I think these are very reasonable concerns.
No third years and no second years is an issue because it's not realistic that there's no senpai-kouhai interactions. Horikoshi just couldn't be assed to write any until it came to him that he wanted to do a story with third-years. This is relevant because you said that the school setting is realistic, when it clearly isn't.
I like the series, and have read it (and DIDN'T speedread), and reread it once or twice (I stopped doing rereads after the Overhaul arc started since the quality got noticeably lowered), and watched the anime as well. That's like going through the source material around 3 to 4 times. I used to really like it, now I just kinda of like it.
"How are you saying there's no dynamic unless they are the focus, Horikoshi is always focusing on their battles, giving them characterization, showing off their abilities, their motivations, how they're working on their abilities etc." Give me an example of this. While I wait I'll give you a counterexample.
Stain arc. Only Deku, Iida and Todoroki are relevant. The other characters are reduced to watching from a screen.
Or how about Overhaul arc. The focus was clearly on Mirio, Deku, Amajiki, and Kirishima. Surprise surprise as the girls' fights get totally offscreened and they could have basically not have participated in the arc and nothing would have changed.
"You really mention Kimetsu no Yaiba when MHA side characters have done more than KnY have lol." I don't know what you mean by "done". If you mean battle/plot accomplishments I think that is a cheap measurement tool. For example Goku saved the Earth, then the universe, multiple times. He's "done" more than any shonen character (except Saitama). But if by "done" you mean "had good character arcs, were featured throughout the series, and had a lasting impact":
Yeah dude there's just no point in arguing with you being that the exact same shit you're pointing out with Kimetsu that MHA did it too. You're way too biased to have this discussion with seeing that the points you are making are just dumb. Deku, Iida and Todoroki are the only relevant characters in the Stain arc? THEY'RE THE ONLY CHARACTERS THAT MATTERED. Come on bro. You're literally bringing up irrelevant things, making it out to be some big criticism, and then completely ignoring my points. Lets just call it quits lol
Yeah dude there's just no point in arguing with you being that the exact same shit you're pointing out with Kimetsu that MHA did it too. You're way too biased to have this discussion with seeing that the points you are making are just dumb. Deku, Iida and Todoroki are only relevant in the Stain arc? THEY'RE THE ONLY CHARACTERS THAT MATTERED. Come on bro. You're literally bringing up irrelevant things, making it out to be some big criticism, and then completely ignoring my points. Lets just call it quits lol
What is it that I have pointed out about Kimetsu, that has happened in MHA? Which examples were going through your mind when you typed that?
"THEY'RE THE ONLY CHARACTERS THAT MATTERED." Implies that all the other characters didn't matter. That's exactly the point.
"You're way too biased to have this discussion with seeing that the points you are making are just dumb." Which points did I make that are dumb? I feel similarly towards you but it's not really that you're dumb, it's more a sense of severe coping that I'm getting from you.
"Come on bro. You're literally bringing up irrelevant things, making it out to be some big criticism, and then completely ignoring my points. Lets just call it quits lol" What did I say that was irrelevant? What did I ignore about your points? I addressed each of them every time.
If you can't answer these questions you're essentially admitting that your entire argument is "You're wrong and dumb and your points are irrelevant and you're ignoring me I quit"
Finally, if you're actually going to stop, please at least let me know what your favorite series are, and which series you've read (or how many). I promise if you do I'll completely stop.
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