Discussion Eurasia Enne Zahard Discussion Thread

[Turtle hunter]

i dont know why there is so much debate about Enne and the irregulars thing . A irregular is a special being + tower blessings . Baam when he was still a baby in the tower was only a special baby with a irregular body if you whant but he wasn't favoured by the tower . While now he is . It is simple Baam before will be crushed by the Baam now . Baam has never learn any Shinsoo tecnique but he managed to hurt the red guide i forgot her name . HE NEVER LEARNT ANY SINSOO TECHNIQUE . It was like the tower refused that his jewel could be kill by someone , the tower or the shinsoo attacked the red guide on his own . Do you see the level of blessing that Baam has . It is almost as if he is one with the shinsoo . No matter how talented you are i dont think that if you are not a real irregulars , that you can have this level of synergie with Shinsoo . Furthemore they can have access to as much Shinsoo that they whant it was stated that Euresia Enne Jahad mother was able to accelerate the shinsoo of one whole floor kiling by the occasion all the living being . Do you see the level of synergy that they have with shinsoo ? They have no restriction wth Shinsoo hey can take as much as they are capable of . While regular even if you are HR so you have less restriciton . But you have some limit at shinsoo . And when you whant to take more it is impossible . Do you see now the difference between someone born in the tower and someone not born in . In a fight the one with a limit will be easily crushed by the the one without it is not even a debate . that's why depsite Baam and Enne born of 2 irregular . Full powered Baam even without torn will crush Enne . We know for sure that all tower of god skills is related to how good is your affinity to shinsoo . All of the natural skills is based on shinsoo . Bang , shinsoo reinforcement . Flame attack power up , anima etc . the more you have affinity with shinsoo the more you are strong . So i dont know in what domain Enne Eurasia Jahad can beat a FH in a fight . When her affinity with shinsoo is far behind any FH . She would need to use axis power or a power not relate to shinsoo if she whants that .

 

[Orbs2op]

i dont know why there is so much debate about Enne and the irregulars thing . A irregular is a special being + tower blessings . Baam when he was still a baby in the tower was only a special baby with a irregular body if you whant but he wasn't favoured by the tower . While now he is . It is simple Baam before will be crushed by the Baam now . Baam has never learn any Shinsoo tecnique but he managed to hurt the red guide i forgot her name . HE NEVER LEARNT ANY SINSOO TECHNIQUE . It was like the tower refused that his jewel could be kill by someone , the tower or the shinsoo attacked the red guide on his own . Do you see the level of blessing that Baam has . It is almost as if he is one with the shinsoo . No matter how talented you are i dont think that if you are not a real irregulars , that you can have this level of synergie with Shinsoo . Furthemore they can have access to as much Shinsoo that they whant it was stated that Euresia Enne Jahad mother was able to accelerate the shinsoo of all floor kiling by the occasion all the living being . Do you see the level of synergy that they have with shinsoo ? They have no restriction wth Shinsoo hey can take as much as they are capable of . While regular even if you are HR so you have less restriciton . But you have some limit at shinsoo . And when you whant to take more it is impossible . Do you see now the difference between someone born in the tower and someone not born in . In a fight the one with a limit will be easily crushed by the the one without it is not even a debate . that's why depsite Baam and Enne born of 2 irregular . Full powered Baam even without torn will crush Enne . We know for sure that all tower of god skills is related to how good is your affinity to shinsoo . All of the natural skills is based on shinsoo . Bang , shinsoo reinforcement . Flame attack power up , anima etc . the more you have affinity with shinsoo the more you are strong . So i dont know in what domain Enne Eurasia Jahad can beat a FH in a fight . When her affinity with shinsoo is far behind any FH . She would need to use axis power or a power not relate to shinsoo if she whants that .

I agree with this l said before even the weakest combative FH would wreck anyone, their is a reason they got over the tower inhabitants long before they finished climbing, I don't see any of them dying unless they kill each other or they gonna come to a compromise open the lock floor somehow and fight the admin or something.

 

[VON]

Zahard used it, and I'm not sure but Eduan at least talked about it if not also used it - both on the data floor. I'm not suggesting 10FH cannot use it, just that arguing that just because we haven't seen ____ use it doesn't mean they can't. Again, we didn't know Akryung could until we saw him use it. Does that hold true to Enne? IDK, do you?



That's the idea lol.



A clone is, by nature, the exact same in every way genetically with the exact same physical traits manifested (short of copy error). How it is handled legally is another matter.



No, but they have every PHYSICAL trait(s). And possibly the same legal status depending on the circumstance and location.

If the 'law' is anything that comes from outside the tower isn't subject to the tower, then a clone would be afforded the same rights/exemptions as the genetic material is entirely foreign.

If you aren't already aware legal rights to genetic material, genetic ownership, and genetics-based property rights are debated as unsettled, gray areas IRL. After all, we're talking about what the legal designation of such material would be. I can't say with certainty how the tower would handle it. Some here seem to have a link to SIU's thoughts on the matter though... (or they think they do - not you per se)



I agree, but this is beside the point. I'm not arguing clones stay the exact same down to hair-count indefinitely, but that they both have the exact same physical traits genetically and thus same potential. How that plays out in the randomness of life is another story (does one twin get a scar the other doesn't get? irrelevant). I'm not asking if a Zahard clone has legal claim to the throne. But, wouldn't they have the same unlimited potential as that is a physical trait?



I am lol. Well, I am and I'm not. As I have repeatedly pointed out 'irregular' is a designation, a title. There are legal aspects, physical aspects, and political aspects to being an irregular in the tower. See: whether OG13 qualify (they both do and don't). Ignore the title. We don't know how gray areas are handled by the tower in a legal aspect. And physical traits should be the same.



I respect this opinion. That could very well be how the tower handles it. See my analogy of diplomats to show that it is more than possible for foreigners to have complicated legal status IRL, and there's no need to be definitive about how the tower would handle such events when it is fantastical and has even greater possibilities than legal dealings IRL. To reiterate, children of a entirely foreign family of diplomats are NOT citizens while children with one native parent and one diplomat ARE. Then, there's dual-citizenship. The point is it can get as complicated or as clear cut as SIU wants to go. But, he has repeatedly shown there are exceptions to every rule.



For reference, in the Star Wars EU, Palpatine clones himself. Palpatine (Sheev, the Emperor) is a very special being in SW. However, his clones share his abilities to the fullest. Even though they are not the original, and arguably have a different soul, they share the same special, and very rare, traits of being an extremely strong force-user.

I'm not suggesting everything is the same as everything else. But there is precedent not only IRL but in other fantasies that could leave room for loopholes such as full-blood exemptions. Even ToG, as I have shown, repeatedly shows there are exceptions to many tower 'rules'.

It's merely a matter of how the rules of the tower play out. Since this is a question of 'law' or a legal designation then we should hold our judgments until we are 100% sure of how the tower 'laws' play out. With seemingly endless possibilities for exemptions I don't see how it's such a foreign idea that it's completely implausible or impossible even.

I get this is an unpopular opinion lol. No one has to agree. I suspect there's something there though.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2019 ---

Their genetic material is entirely foreign, from outside the tower. In this sense, yes, they did physically come from the outside.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019 ---

Yeah, read my post to @Davy Clyde above. I had forgotten about them as they are but a footnote. We know absolutely nothing about them. They don't add credence to or against my theory. We don't know what we don't know in regards to them - not even their gender.

Stop wasting my time with your semantics

 

[Turtle hunter]

Stop wasting my time with your semantics

I dont whant to be harsh , but it is all he is doing .

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2019 ---

I think one things Jubei didn't understand is what makes a irregular so special . That's why he thinks having Irregulars parents can possibly give you irregulars powers . But no , it doesn( function like that .

 

[toil]

I've said it before but Headon is up to some stuff that any government would find him guilty of treason. I suspect he's a double-agent and sympathetic to Arlen/Enryu and pushing an anti-Zahard agenda. He's certainly networking like he is. I mean, I'm not saying there IS collusion, but it certainly looks like it... heh

I lean towards Headon colluding with...Headon, actually. Playing all sides for his own agenda. Hard to do more than speculate until we see more or learn more.

I'd argue there's something about dying that 'reset' him and his potential. Inside the tower I'd imagine he'd be stronger - at least from the onset - like every other family offspring we've seen, Enne in particular since she's one of the very few that share a similar heritage.

This is as good a bit to quote as any.

You're right the mechanics with bodies and souls are pretty straightforward and open-ended, but right now the math is pretty funny.

I could see dead-Baam getting free passage to the outside world because he's inert matter at that point. Arlene has to pay a soul to leave, pawns V's, then eventually self-sacrifices to get Baam revived (after meeting the locals first, though). Interesting possibility is if Zahard kept Baam's original soul, or if it otherwise fell into third-party hands.

Enne's interesting because Garam's expo dump makes her seem like the obvious parallel to Baam in terms of background, but Baam's an irregular and she obviously isn't. Rather than guessing at irregularity loopholes, though, I'd lean towards additional prophetic material existing that involves someone with that background, possibly related to what Garam wouldn't tell him. On that I lean towards future events over past happenings, something about the context gave me that impression.

 

[Wha]

I don't see the point of your question . Why wouldn't they train make use of their unlimited potential . And there is somethings that you to know . Talent is much more important than training in this manga . In tower of god aging make you more stronger , training is not a necessity . The only use of training is that he make you stronger more rapidly . So even if FH didn't train wich i sincerely doubt when we see data jahad and the rivalry between FH and it wouldn't be interesting in the story if they didn't attain they attain THE level .

Headon didn't choose because she didn't posessed any potential that's all . The thing about the champion is the good theory . For dozen of thousand of years there have been 100 of Trillion of regular . Some died new regular people was born . But with all that time the tower only choose 16 rregular if i count good . So there are singularities . The tower don't whant to pick peeple wich are similar to the tower habitant wich have the same power level as them . Because he whants changes . And only open to people wich by potential can be stronger than all tower habitant i dont count precedent irregulars . So when it opens is doors . I can assure you that he only let enter crazy beast . Not only that but they have the benediction of the tower . I think that Enne could have entered the tower if she was at Baam . The two of them was born of 2 irregular parent but the factor that make Baam far ahead in term of potential is the irregular factor . Just see the latest chapter , when Hang su yuu was speaking about how Baam was blessed by the tower . And the advantage that he posesse compare to others .

Maybe because they are that talented that hard work isn't really necessary to be overpowered.
Let's take Blossom as another example. According to Gustang, she is one hell of a wave controller (talent) but can't teach you anything - while the former is trying to close the gap through his research (hard work). Imagine how powerful Blossom might be if she would put the same effort in it as Gustang.
It's like in the real world, of course talent is important. If the talented person puts in the same effort as the less talented one, the outcome is pretty clear. But if the less talented guy puts in way more effort, he can close the gap or even surpass the more talented one. Again, there are a lot of examples both in the real world and in the manhwa. Just look at Ran and how much difference it made when he finally decided to put in a little bit more effort regarding his training.


I am not sure how Headons selection process really works - i don't think that talent is that much of a factor. Look at Ho, or all the other guys on the second floor who didn't even manage to get past the shinsoo barrier...

Hard to say how many Irregulars were actually chosen, there are too many open questions. If the workshop comes from the outside, they had to open the door. Or Rak's ancestor, this super beast which split apart. Was it always inside of the tower? Or did it came from the outside? What about every other inhabitant of the tower? Did their ancestors came in or were they created inside of the tower?

For the tower opening his doors goes the same thing. Is it about their personality? Their hidden potential? Everything together? How does the tower know that the person is capable of giving what the tower wishes for? Stability, change, revolution,....
It can't be just about having great power or Bam wouldn't have been able to open the door.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Stop wasting my time with your semantics

Not when I find it pertinent.

The ignore button works, fyi.

I'll take your 'reply' as you have nothing to add. Coo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2019 ---

I dont whant to be harsh , but it is all he is doing .

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2019 ---

I think one things Jubei didn't understand is what makes a irregular so special . That's why he thinks having Irregulars parents can possibly give you irregulars powers . But no , it doesn( function like that .

I have made it abundantly clear this is my speculation. I have the same information available that you do.

I have also made it clear that SIU hold's Enne's heritage special. SIU has also shown repeatedly that rules can be bent or broken in the tower, and that there are many exceptions. Oh, and that pertaining to what it is to be an irregular that perspective very much matters.

If you want to talk about me without quoting me directly that's fine. I just find it in poor form. Feel free to use your words and dispute anything I've said. If you don't agree then, fine, we are at an impasse. I have made my point, several times over, with support from the story and IRL examples.

If it bothers you so much - to 'waste your time' - then I'd suggest skipping my posts...

Also, I'm glad everyone has a crystal clear understanding on how "irregular powers... function" when there remains tons of story and details to unfold.

I, for one, expect some twists or nuance. If you want clear-cut, go read DBZ or something.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

I lean towards Headon colluding with...Headon, actually. Playing all sides for his own agenda. Hard to do more than speculate until we see more or learn more.

Oh, hai, someone capable of being respectful whether they agree or disagree (there are others of course). What a novel idea...

I digress. Yes, Headon's motives do seem to be difficult to identify and probably are suited to himself, like most of our motives tend to be. He could be a double or triple agent, sure. Or just play everyone against everyone else.

I am just speaking of his behavior that is pointedly supportive of the anti-Zahard movement in isolation. Many governments would see his actions as treason and he'd be destroyed via capital punishment. He probably gets away with whatever he wants because he's Headon and what are they gonna do? It's difficult to speculate (but that's why we're here?) sure, but it's certain he's not acting entirely FOR Zahard, and it seems he acts more against him than pro/neutral with the limited bit we've seen.

This is as good a bit to quote as any.

You're right the mechanics with bodies and souls are pretty straightforward and open-ended, but right now the math is pretty funny.

At least someone recognizes the jury is still out...

I could see dead-Baam getting free passage to the outside world because he's inert matter at that point. Arlene has to pay a soul to leave, pawns V's, then eventually self-sacrifices to get Baam revived (after meeting the locals first, though). Interesting possibility is if Zahard kept Baam's original soul, or if it otherwise fell into third-party hands.

I do like this idea. Dead material, like clothes/weapons/etc (brought with irregulars) can enter or leave without issue. Arlen pays the toll to the ferryman. V's soul ---> Akryung or '/\' as you have penned. There is certain to be a 'toll' or 'sacrifice' to be made at some level.

Enne's interesting because Garam's expo dump makes her seem like the obvious parallel to Baam in terms of background, but Baam's an irregular and she obviously isn't.

I wouldn't say 'obviously' and you know why... IMO

Rather than guessing at irregularity loopholes, though, I'd lean towards additional prophetic material existing that involves someone with that background, possibly related to what Garam wouldn't tell him. On that I lean towards future events over past happenings, something about the context gave me that impression.

Hmmm, I certainly get the feeling that Garam was referring to something specific that had already happened as it was probably related to her pocket journal. So, maybe it is a bit of as-yet unfulfilled prophecy left to take place ("...the only way the child of prophecy will be able to slit the throat of the king with the thorn is to sacrifice all that he has and everyone dear to him to be able to access the throne..." or "...child of prophecy, having slit the king's throat, will be required to return to the 'god' of the outside world afterwards to live a never-ending life of lonely servitude in return for being granted the ability to kill the false king..." or something to that effect). But I still lean on it being something further that happened in the past, such as Arlen's sacrifice or something along those lines.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Stop wasting my time with your semantics

Are you familiar with how a zygote is formed?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Stop wasting my time with your semantics

Do legal semantics come into play in ToG?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Stop wasting my time with your semantics

Has the wiki itself shown that semantics (perspective) are important when it comes to the OG13 being irregulars or not?

 

[Turtle hunter]

Not when I find it pertinent.

The ignore button works, fyi.

I'll take your 'reply' as you have nothing to add. Coo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2019 ---

I have made it abundantly clear this is my speculation. I have the same information available that you do.

I have also made it clear that SIU hold's Enne's heritage special. SIU has also shown repeatedly that rules can be bent or broken in the tower, and that there are many exceptions. Oh, and that pertaining to what it is to be an irregular that perspective very much matters.

If you want to talk about me without quoting me directly that's fine. I just find it in poor form. Feel free to use your words and dispute anything I've said. If you don't agree then, fine, we are at an impasse. I have made my point, several times over, with support from the story and IRL examples.

If it bothers you so much - to 'waste your time' - then I'd suggest skipping my posts...

Also, I'm glad everyone has a crystal clear understanding on how "irregular powers... function" when there remains tons of story and details to unfold.

I, for one, expect some twists or nuance. If you want clear-cut, go read DBZ or something.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Oh, hai, someone capable of being respectful whether they agree or disagree (there are others of course). What a novel idea...

I digress. Yes, Headon's motives do seem to be difficult to identify and probably are suited to himself, like most of our motives tend to be. He could be a double or triple agent, sure. Or just play everyone against everyone else.

I am just speaking of his behavior that is pointedly supportive of the anti-Zahard movement in isolation. Many governments would see his actions as treason and he'd be destroyed via capital punishment. He probably gets away with whatever he wants because he's Headon and what are they gonna do? It's difficult to speculate (but that's why we're here?) sure, but it's certain he's not acting entirely FOR Zahard, and it seems he acts more against him than pro/neutral with the limited bit we've seen.



At least someone recognizes the jury is still out...



I do like this idea. Dead material, like clothes/weapons/etc (brought with irregulars) can enter or leave without issue. Arlen pays the toll to the ferryman. V's soul ---> Akryung or '/\' as you have penned. There is certain to be a 'toll' or 'sacrifice' to be made at some level.



I wouldn't say 'obviously' and you know why... IMO



Hmmm, I certainly get the feeling that Garam was referring to something specific that had already happened as it was probably related to her pocket journal. So, maybe it is a bit of as-yet unfulfilled prophecy left to take place ("...the only way the child of prophecy will be able to slit the throat of the king with the thorn is to sacrifice all that he has and everyone dear to him to be able to access the throne..." or "...child of prophecy, having slit the king's throat, will be required to return to the 'god' of the outside world afterwards to live a never-ending life of lonely servitude in return for being granted the ability to kill the false king..." or something to that effect). But I still lean on it being something further that happened in the past, such as Arlen's sacrifice or something along those lines.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Are you familiar with how a zygote is formed?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Do legal semantics come into play in ToG?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019 ---

Has the wiki itself shown that semantics (perspective) are important when it comes to the OG13 being irregulars or not?

I never say that you bother me , i found you quite funny , and no need to be harsh i have already explained why Enne can't be more powerful than a irregular , and why being born of 2 irregular doesn't make you a irregulars . You can go to wikipedia it explain that irregular are people who came from outside . Yes somes rules can be broken , but not all . The fact that somebody is born can be irregular is nonsense when you know what are irregulars . Actually what bothers me is that in order for your theory to have some credibility you are willing to refuse some info that SIU has established . Tht irregulars come from outsid ethe tower , that they are above regular and many other things . Or maybe you didn't understands how strong is a irregulars . I could see Urek killing Kallavan with only one bang . But theory should rest in concrete basics . changing actual things of the story to feat your theory is the wrong way to give credibility to uo theory . If you come with some logical

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I never say that you bother me , i found you quite funny , and no need to be harsh

I guess it's confusing when I see you agreeing with someone stating I'm just wasting others' time then.

I agree that being harsh is uncalled for; I'm not sure why impersonal opinions make some people so sensitive, but whatever.

One can certainly skip my posts or put me on mute if it's a problem for them. My feelings won't be hurt that font on the internet didn't respond or agree...

i have already explained why Enne can't be more powerful than a irregular , and why being born of 2 irregular doesn't make you a irregulars .

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Until the story unfolds a bit more. I'm OK with being wrong and my speculations have failed at the smaller end (like what might happen next chapter) all the time.

You can go to wikipedia it explain that irregular are people who came from outside .

If all physical genetic material (omg, semantics!) come from the outside that is different from a half-breed. I have even given real-life examples of how this can play out on the legal level with diplomats. I'm simply saying this particular instance hasn't been addressed by SIU. So maybe there's something there maybe there isn't.

Also, it's funny you cite the wiki because I have repeatedly alluded to the fact that the wiki itself shows how perspective is needed to determine whether the OG13 qualify as 'irregulars' - the obvious implication being it's a label created after the empire was established. So there is the political/legal aspect of being an irregular, and there is the PHYSICAL aspect - which is tied to the supra-legal aspect as exemptions from admin authority/tower contracts come into play - but so does genetic inheritance from outside the tower. So, semantics matter. Words have meaning, as does perspective, and 'law'.

Yes somes rules can be broken , but not all .

Tell that to every tower inhabitant when they found out an admin, previously thought to be invulnerable, was killed by Enryu. Who decides but SIU which rules can be broken and which can't anyways? I sure don't.

The fact that somebody is born can be irregular is nonsense when you know what are irregulars . Actually what bothers me is that in order for your theory to have some credibility you are willing to refuse some info that SIU has established .

I disagree. I'm seeking out gray areas that SIU has yet to - if ever - explain. I also think 10FH's can be killed unlike you due to Zahard needing a second contract and I've yet to see an argument that addresses the secondary contract if he was already invulnerable as well as immortal. It's not impossible SIU has loose ends, purposefully or accidentally. I guess we'll see; or we won't.

Tht irregulars come from outsid ethe tower , that they are above regular and many other things . Or maybe you didn't understands how strong is a irregulars . I could see Urek killing Kallavan with only one bang . But theory should rest in concrete basics . changing actual things of the story to feat your theory is the wrong way to give credibility to uo theory . If you come with some logical

Enne is number SEVEN. She herself could probably destroy Kallavan with one shot as the highest he could theoretically be is 18 - though he's probably closer to Evankhell in the middle of the top 100.

I'm not changing anything. What have I changed? I'm bringing up, specifically, what HASN'T been addressed and inserting a guess as to how it MIGHT play out given the bits we do know.

If we're not here to debate and speculate then what is the point of a forums to begin with? To sit around and all agree how cool Baam's new hair is?

 

[toil]

I am just speaking of his behavior that is pointedly supportive of the anti-Zahard movement in isolation.

I mostly agree and he’s clearly not perfectly loyal to Zahard.

My sense from S1 is that Headon is more-narrowly helping the faction of FUG that includes Rachel’s elder benefactor instead of FUG, proper, and that his actions with Rachel weren’t exactly what YHS was expecting. Lot of speculation based on not much material, though.

For souls again I would find it funny if Androssi is a test tube baby and has Baam’s original soul (whole new notion of soulmates lol). The way the mirror tells Baam he doesn’t have a past feels like it could be a soul-shenanigan tie-in eventually, and her comic relief power-dive would prevent revealing it.

I consider this total crack but it’s funny to me.

For Enne again I think I wouldn’t put it past her being “irregular” in the end but if she is I suspect it involves Zahard blood, too. Maybe it’s unlockable.

But basically irregular status requiring pure outside-tower heritage, which is trivial for those from outside the tower and inheritable, but then that inherited status is locked by contract or spell.

What I mean is I could see as a twist a way to unlock that, break the seal, etc., being found but it’s still only going to irregularize those who meet the other condition (Enne, it seems).

Not saying it is my opinion but I can see it.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I mostly agree and he’s clearly not perfectly loyal to Zahard.

My sense from S1 is that Headon is more-narrowly helping the faction of FUG that includes Rachel’s elder benefactor instead of FUG, proper, and that his actions with Rachel weren’t exactly what YHS was expecting. Lot of speculation based on not much material, though.

For souls again I would find it funny if Androssi is a test tube baby and has Baam’s original soul (whole new notion of soulmates lol). The way the mirror tells Baam he doesn’t have a past feels like it could be a soul-shenanigan tie-in eventually, and her comic relief power-dive would prevent revealing it.

I consider this total crack but it’s funny to me.

For Enne again I think I wouldn’t put it past her being “irregular” in the end but if she is I suspect it involves Zahard blood, too. Maybe it’s unlockable.

But basically irregular status requiring pure outside-tower heritage, which is trivial for those from outside the tower and inheritable, but then that inherited status is locked by contract or spell.

What I mean is I could see as a twist a way to unlock that, break the seal, etc., being found but it’s still only going to irregularize those who meet the other condition (Enne, it seems).

Not saying it is my opinion but I can see it.

I'm in near-agreement and your theories sound plausible.

Except that heretical bit about Androssi. I'm not sure if the fan-boys would love it or if their heads would collectively explode...

 

[toil]

Except that heretical bit about Androssi. I'm not sure if the fan-boys would love it or if their heads would collectively explode...

What? It’s not like they’d be blood-related.

But yeah that was just for lulz, although her backstory obviously has another shoe to drop.

For Enne too I’d bet Zahard gave her a ride in the golden needle from mystery island. Any other genre and that’s what you’d expect from the story we got told about her, but ToG is so PG/PG-13 in some ways this seems an uncommon take.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

What? It’s not like they’d be blood-related.

But yeah that was just for lulz, although her backstory obviously has another shoe to drop.

For Enne too I’d bet Zahard gave her a ride in the golden needle from mystery island. Any other genre and that’s what you’d expect from the story we got told about her, but ToG is so PG/PG-13 in some ways this seems an uncommon take.

I certainly think that's why he put Enne on ice - not out of love for his 'daughter' (ick factor level 100 if you start to think about it - "yeah, only my own genetics are good enough to mate with!") but she is one of the few that qualifies to be 'used'.

 

[Turtle hunter]

I guess it's confusing when I see you agreeing with someone stating I'm just wasting others' time then.

I agree that being harsh is uncalled for; I'm not sure why impersonal opinions make some people so sensitive, but whatever.

One can certainly skip my posts or put me on mute if it's a problem for them. My feelings won't be hurt that font on the internet didn't respond or agree...



I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Until the story unfolds a bit more. I'm OK with being wrong and my speculations have failed at the smaller end (like what might happen next chapter) all the time.



If all physical genetic material (omg, semantics!) come from the outside that is different from a half-breed. I have even given real-life examples of how this can play out on the legal level with diplomats. I'm simply saying this particular instance hasn't been addressed by SIU. So maybe there's something there maybe there isn't.

Also, it's funny you cite the wiki because I have repeatedly alluded to the fact that the wiki itself shows how perspective is needed to determine whether the OG13 qualify as 'irregulars' - the obvious implication being it's a label created after the empire was established. So there is the political/legal aspect of being an irregular, and there is the PHYSICAL aspect - which is tied to the supra-legal aspect as exemptions from admin authority/tower contracts come into play - but so does genetic inheritance from outside the tower. So, semantics matter. Words have meaning, as does perspective, and 'law'.



Tell that to every tower inhabitant when they found out an admin, previously thought to be invulnerable, was killed by Enryu. Who decides but SIU which rules can be broken and which can't anyways? I sure don't.



I disagree. I'm seeking out gray areas that SIU has yet to - if ever - explain. I also think 10FH's can be killed unlike you due to Zahard needing a second contract and I've yet to see an argument that addresses the secondary contract if he was already invulnerable as well as immortal. It's not impossible SIU has loose ends, purposefully or accidentally. I guess we'll see; or we won't.



Enne is number SEVEN. She herself could probably destroy Kallavan with one shot as the highest he could theoretically be is 18 - though he's probably closer to Evankhell in the middle of the top 100.

I'm not changing anything. What have I changed? I'm bringing up, specifically, what HASN'T been addressed and inserting a guess as to how it MIGHT play out given the bits we do know.

If we're not here to debate and speculate then what is the point of a forums to begin with? To sit around and all agree how cool Baam's new hair is?

Like i said some rules can be broken not all .

I dont care about what the tower definition of irregular is . As seen they have only avague idea of what they are . I am sunig what SIU gaves us . And being a irregular is not only a matter of genetic ( if it is what you implied ).

And you think that FH can be killed , when the manwha stated that only irregular can . FH have 2 contract , the first one was gave by the 100 guardian floor , it is a immortality contract who make them live long . And the second is a invulnarability contract , wich prevent them to be killed by any regylar people . Arlen wanted to killed herself but couldn't if you whant a proof of a invulnerability .

Yes we are here to debate , but when i am reading Enne could be a irregular . I wonder if the debate is profitable . But nevermind if you whant to debate go for it .

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2019 ---

I mostly agree and he’s clearly not perfectly loyal to Zahard.

My sense from S1 is that Headon is more-narrowly helping the faction of FUG that includes Rachel’s elder benefactor instead of FUG, proper, and that his actions with Rachel weren’t exactly what YHS was expecting. Lot of speculation based on not much material, though.

For souls again I would find it funny if Androssi is a test tube baby and has Baam’s original soul (whole new notion of soulmates lol). The way the mirror tells Baam he doesn’t have a past feels like it could be a soul-shenanigan tie-in eventually, and her comic relief power-dive would prevent revealing it.

I consider this total crack but it’s funny to me.

For Enne again I think I wouldn’t put it past her being “irregular” in the end but if she is I suspect it involves Zahard blood, too. Maybe it’s unlockable.

But basically irregular status requiring pure outside-tower heritage, which is trivial for those from outside the tower and inheritable, but then that inherited status is locked by contract or spell.

What I mean is I could see as a twist a way to unlock that, break the seal, etc., being found but it’s still only going to irregularize those who meet the other condition (Enne, it seems).

Not saying it is my opinion but I can see it.

It is good if you could see it .
I whant to correct a point the irregulars is not something that is locked or that a seal . You only need to be favoured by the power , to be choosen by the tower it is only that . Hence it gave is power .





I whant to add something . This is for everyone . It is a real evidence , but again if you know how to read between lines you will understand what i have understood . Eurasia Enne Jahad was being called the ultimate species by tower habitant but we know that Irregular superior than than her if we consider them in term species . But they say that she is the ultimate species and disregard FH . That's imply that they don't count Irregular as ande species the same for guardian . Irregular are a existence comparable of that of Guardian . In the tower they are compared to god .

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Like i said some rules can be broken not all .

I dont care about what the tower definition of irregular is . As seen they have only avague idea of what they are . I am sunig what SIU gaves us . And being a irregular is not only a matter of genetic ( if it is what you implied ).

And you think that FH can be killed , when the manwha stated that only irregular can . FH have 2 contract , the first one was gave by the 100 guardian floor , it is a immortality contract who make them live long . And the second is a invulnarability contract , wich prevent them to be killed by any regylar people . Arlen wanted to killed herself but couldn't if you whant a proof of a invulnerability .

Yes we are here to debate , but when i am reading Enne could be a irregular . I wonder if the debate is profitable . But nevermind if you whant to debate go for it .

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2019 ---

It is good if you could see it .
I whant to correct a point the irregulars is not something that is locked or that a seal . You only need to be favoured by the power , to be choosen by the tower it is only that . Hence it gave is power .

Zahard is the only one with a secondary contract.

 

[Davy Clyde]

I guess it's confusing when I see you agreeing with someone stating I'm just wasting others' time then.

I agree that being harsh is uncalled for; I'm not sure why impersonal opinions make some people so sensitive, but whatever.

One can certainly skip my posts or put me on mute if it's a problem for them. My feelings won't be hurt that font on the internet didn't respond or agree...



I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Until the story unfolds a bit more. I'm OK with being wrong and my speculations have failed at the smaller end (like what might happen next chapter) all the time.



If all physical genetic material (omg, semantics!) come from the outside that is different from a half-breed. I have even given real-life examples of how this can play out on the legal level with diplomats. I'm simply saying this particular instance hasn't been addressed by SIU. So maybe there's something there maybe there isn't.

Also, it's funny you cite the wiki because I have repeatedly alluded to the fact that the wiki itself shows how perspective is needed to determine whether the OG13 qualify as 'irregulars' - the obvious implication being it's a label created after the empire was established. So there is the political/legal aspect of being an irregular, and there is the PHYSICAL aspect - which is tied to the supra-legal aspect as exemptions from admin authority/tower contracts come into play - but so does genetic inheritance from outside the tower. So, semantics matter. Words have meaning, as does perspective, and 'law'.



Tell that to every tower inhabitant when they found out an admin, previously thought to be invulnerable, was killed by Enryu. Who decides but SIU which rules can be broken and which can't anyways? I sure don't.



I disagree. I'm seeking out gray areas that SIU has yet to - if ever - explain. I also think 10FH's can be killed unlike you due to Zahard needing a second contract and I've yet to see an argument that addresses the secondary contract if he was already invulnerable as well as immortal. It's not impossible SIU has loose ends, purposefully or accidentally. I guess we'll see; or we won't.



Enne is number SEVEN. She herself could probably destroy Kallavan with one shot as the highest he could theoretically be is 18 - though he's probably closer to Evankhell in the middle of the top 100.

I'm not changing anything. What have I changed? I'm bringing up, specifically, what HASN'T been addressed and inserting a guess as to how it MIGHT play out given the bits we do know.

If we're not here to debate and speculate then what is the point of a forums to begin with? To sit around and all agree how cool Baam's new hair is?

The Great Family heads are ranked lower than some of the Top Regular Rankers because they are extremely inactive They are already as accomplished as they can be so they don't really have anything to prove.
Their last relevant feats were done thousands of years ago during their climb up to the Tower. There's no doubt that they are all more powerful than what their Rankings indicate. SIU has even said that Eduan has not used his great blue spear yet in battle.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

The Great Family heads are ranked lower than some of the Top Regular Rankers because they are extremely inactive They are already as accomplished as they can be so they don't really have anything to prove.

What is this based on? Enne is ranked 7 and she couldn't possibly be more inactive than the FH's. She's SEALED.

Their last relevant feats were done thousands of years ago during their climb up to the Tower.

Which can still be used to compare to current feats. Just like Enryu's actions still stand on their own yet he's been MIA for ages. Oh, and Zahard has been inactive/'asleep' for an untold period of time as well.

There's no doubt that they are all more powerful than what their Rankings indicate. SIU has even said that Eduan has not used his great blue spear yet in battle.

And yet he's still ranked 6 lol. Wasn't your argument that their ranks reflect their inactivity?




So, clearly they are ranked just where they're supposed to be ranked. You also seem to forget they are all considered nobles and don't have to prove anything. They'll never fall from their status. No where, to my knowledge, has it been shown that you must continue to remain active to maintain your ranking - in fact Enne/Enryu kind of disprove this idea. You're proposing head-canon as fact.

 

[Turtle hunter]

What is this based on? Enne is ranked 7 and she couldn't possibly be more inactive than the FH's. She's SEALED.



Which can still be used to compare to current feats. Just like Enryu's actions still stand on their own yet he's been MIA for ages. Oh, and Zahard has been inactive/'asleep' for an untold period of time as well.



And yet he's still ranked 6 lol. Wasn't your argument that their ranks reflect their inactivity?




So, clearly they are ranked just where they're supposed to be ranked. You also seem to forget they are all considered nobles and don't have to prove anything. They'll never fall from their status. No where, to my knowledge, has it been shown that you must continue to remain active to maintain your ranking - in fact Enne/Enryu kind of disprove this idea. You're proposing head-canon as fact.

FH were active as far as we know until they finish climbing the tower , so they finish to climb it . It was stated by SIU . After that they become inactive only doing minor things only Eduan with is family we know that he is doing some sort of competition , and Arie hon with is challenge are really active . As we can see in the wiki the rest are inactive and leave family businnes to they child . We also know that the ranking administration appeared after the climbing . Also we know that some old monster dissapeared of the ranking du to they disseaparance and they lack of activity , so you can loose some positions if you are active . Actually if Enryuu was know as a irregular but didn't kill a guardian he would not have been at the 2 position . Despite the fact that he could a guardian hence why be at the second position . You are surely wonderiing where i am going with that . If FH when climbing did outsanding , but only defeated regular people . Enne when she was climbing the Jahad empire was a dangerous place . And it would be a perfect place to gaiin some ranks Because despite the fact that you are assuming that she did nothing . You can't arrive at the 7 position without doing anything . She done something to arrive at that position and after that she became inactive . What i am saying is that she only needed to make a bigger feats than FH . For example defeating 100 of HR while escaping . And that only could had lead her to her rank . But if FH didn't do anything special while climbing , they sure have meet some difficulties but with 13 irregulars in a team . One could not really shine and make a big accomplishment . They decimated they ennemyes in my opinion . So rank at the top is determine by what feat you have make but rank is not necesserily a representation of you power . And it is eve possible that you are ranked below what you really worth . For example Urek is at the 4 position , but imagine it would be stronger than Jahad , and because jahad was inactive until now he never became the third in rank .

I also whant you guys to put you attention into one thing Enne before she flew from Jahad empire wasn't yet a HR . But in the ranking she is 7 . I dont know how much time they took to capture her , but for me it is seems it didn't take to long . So how the fuck did she pass 993 in such a qhort time Did she like the peolpe who are in the top made a feat that propulsed her directly in the top . It is said that she illed many ranker when she flee . How many ?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

FH were active as far as we know until they finish climbing the tower , so they finish to climb it . It was stated by SIU . After that they become inactive only doing minor things only Eduan with is family we know that he is doing some sort of competition , and Arie hon with is challenge are really active . As we can see in the wiki the rest are inactive and leave family businnes to they child . We also know that the ranking administration appeared after the climbing . Also we know that some old monster dissapeared of the ranking du to they disseaparance and they lack of activity , so you can loose some positions if you are active . Actually if Enryuu was know as a irregular but didn't kill a guardian he would not have been at the 2 position . Despite the fact that he could a guardian hence why be at the second position . You are surely wonderiing where i am going with that . If FH when climbing did outsanding , but only defeated regular people . Enne when she was climbing the Jahad empire was a dangerous place . And it would be a perfect place to gaiin some ranks Because despite the fact that you are assuming that she did nothing . You can't arrive at the 7 position without doing anything . She done something to arrive at that position and after that she became inactive . What i am saying is that she only needed to make a bigger feats than FH . For example defeating 100 of HR while escaping . And that only could had lead her to her rank . But if FH didn't do anything special while climbing , they sure have meet some difficulties but with 13 irregulars in a team . One could not really shine and make a big accomplishment . They decimated they ennemyes in my opinion . So rank at the top is determine by what feat you have make but rank is not necesserily a representation of you power . And it is eve possible that you are ranked below what you really worth . For example Urek is at the 4 position , but imagine it would be stronger than Jahad , and because jahad was inactive until now he never became the third in rank .

I also whant you guys to put you attention into one thing Enne before she flew from Jahad empire wasn't yet a HR . But in the ranking she is 7 . I dont know how much time they took to capture her , but for me it is seems it didn't take to long . So how the fuck did she pass 993 in such a qhort time Did she like the peolpe who are in the top made a feat that propulsed her directly in the top . It is said that she illed many ranker when she flee . How many ?

This is a little too incoherent and disjointed for me to be able to respond to (it seems you are ESL, so I'm not trying to be an ass about it). Regardless, you have way too many assumptions going at once:

- Enne doesn't deserve her position and that I assume Enne didn't do anything to deserve it (? Not sure how you came to that conclusion when I'm arguing she's completely capable and next-level strong as a full-blood/possible 'irregular', but whatever)
- That FH's basically cake-walked up the tower 'only defeating regular people'
- That FH's didn't do much noteworthy when climbing or since - based on what, mini-bios from SIU's blogs and that's it??
- That FH's found it difficult to "shine" when climbing - again, each has been described as monstrously powerful it is naive to think they never got to show such descriptions and arrived in the top 20 rankings by accident. Which is it - did they do amazing feats and get high ranks only to fall from inactivity, or did they never have a chance to do some tight feats, yo? In the later case, they'd never have been ranked very high if so. In other words, they wouldn't have any high position to fall from. In other words, it can't be both as these are contradictions. This is completely your own head-canon.
- That FH's are inactive if their every last recent actions aren't listed in the absolutely non-exhaustive wiki (hint: we are given very little information on what they do with their time for the most part). For instance, Gustang certainly isn't inactive (and Hendo certainly stays busy if you know what I mean). Blossom gets shit for being the lazy one and the other FH's get onto her about implication being they are all more active than her. And Tu Perie is one of the most active of all the FH since the climb (go read his wiki/bio). Yurin sits on her ass yet hasn't dropped from the 10 spot after stopping fighting entirely after becoming family head. Tu Perie should be ranked higher than Ha Yurin if your theory is true, yet he's not and that's probably because he isn't stronger than Yurin, simple as that regardless of activity level. How do you explain these inconsistencies with your theory?
- That Enne could accomplish something (as a regular as you state) that FH's aren't capable of (when claiming that irregulars such as the FH's are unlimited as opposed to Enne's supposedly limited potential). Is Enne more capable than the FH's or not? There seems to be some inconsistencies with what you're saying.
- That Enryu's one-time action and Enne's one-time event justify their rankings hundreds if not thousands of years after the fact, yet the 10FH actions and strengths shown further in the past aren't enough to solidify their ranks just because they are that much older. Basically some inactivity is different from other inactivity selectively based entirely on your opinion.
- You justify Eduan's 'activity' and thus his #6 position in that he occasionally kills regulars that are subordinate in his own household? Apparently killing regulars on rare occasion is enough to justify 6th. Because... activity!


And most importantly, like the person I had quoted, you both seem to gloss over the fact that Zahard has been inactive (time and extent unknown), Enne has been sealed (possibly thousands of years based on Garam's age), Enryu has been MIA for generations (Phanta too... hundreds or thousands of years is an easy possibility), and that the 10FH's still all sit in top 20 positions (since the beginning, easily thousands of years) while Z/Enryu/Enne still retain the highest of positions while inactive in various ways - possibly for hundreds if not thousands of years.

You'd think in THOUSANDS OF YEARS of inactivity they (10FH) would slip a little more than top 10 or top 20 positions if your theory is to be true. The only thing that's displaced all FH's collectively is the addition of new, stupidly-powerful irregulars to the tower (Phanta, Enryu, Urek).

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Guys, let me add a suggestion here that could, perhaps, end this Marathon of long posts:
1-Rachel is an Irregular (fact), but she isn't a common Irregular, as @kkck pointed out in Ilarde's thread (opened by @Jubei_Kibagami ). Ilarde herself might be the same kind of irregular as Rachel, and who knows who else.

2- This special irregular, to me and from all Rachel has shown so Far, seems to not enjoy all priviledges of Irregulars. They are fully in irregular status but perhaps not in Power.

3- And this special class of Irregulars got me thinking: If there are exceptions, special cases, well Akryung is a special Regular. This could work both ways: both Irregulars without all the priviledges of being one, and Regulars with priviledges that only Irregulars should have.

The reasons behind this, only SIU could Tell and he hasn't addressed It yet at all. But Rachel and Ilarde on one side and Akryung, Anne Jahad and Adori on the other hand, all seem to point to a Grey area between Regulars and Irregulars that I don't dare try to explain. But which we have witnessed with Akryung's Shinworyu, those ladies' abnormal ranks, and Rachel's incompetence.

I didn't open this 'special case' can either, SIU both explicitly stated that Rachel was a special case of Irregular and that Akryung was a special Regular. He did this, It is Cannon, I'm Just connecting the dots between these in a way that seems to make sense to me. And which would explain all this mess because there would indeed exist rare exceptions to the rule.