Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Stivie]

The jump does not consider twitter voting, otherwise it would save saiyuki and kamio yui.

 

[RafGL]

The jump does not consider twitter voting, otherwise it would save saiyuki and kamio yui.

Well they could actually care about popularity overall in social media, but It needs to keep a stable popularity in the beginning, otherwise it's just a roller coaster of positions that mean nothing.

 

[Brizzi]

At the end of the day, being liked means nothing if it doesn't sell. :/

 

[Stivie]

Well they could actually care about popularity overall in social media, but It needs to keep a stable popularity in the beginning, otherwise it's just a roller coaster of positions that mean nothing.

in fact, most sell this poll I'm surprised that Black clover, TPN and One piece are not popular on Japanese twitter.

 

[tirakai]

At the end of the day, being liked means nothing if it doesn't sell. :/

That depends on the series really, editors have stated (I think in one of the Viz interviews?) that jump will keep around a lower performing series if it's interesting.

So a battle shounen with the same basic premise that two different successful series are already exploring (Saiyuuki) probably won't get much let, while Hinomaru Zumou gets a lot of forgiveness for low sales or rankings, since Sumo manga are pretty rare and also probably something WSJ are proud to have from a cultural perspective.

 

[Brizzi]

That depends on the series really, editors have stated (I think in one of the Viz interviews?) that jump will keep around a lower performing series if it's interesting.

So a battle shounen with the same basic premise that two different successful series are already exploring (Saiyuuki) probably won't get much let, while Hinomaru Zumou gets a lot of forgiveness for low sales or rankings, since Sumo manga are pretty rare and also probably something WSJ are proud to have from a cultural perspective.

Yes, but it seems it depends more on Jump's own interest than readers interest, in these exceptional cases. At least that's the impression I have, but I can be wrong

 

[Franz]

As if anyone was doubting, this basically confirms Chainsaw Man is part of the Jump canon.

Slightly surprised Samurai 8 isn't included.

What would it be? But will the first be all in the July issue ?? Or will there be only one ???

 

[RafGL]

in fact, most sell this poll I'm surprised that Black clover, TPN and One piece are not popular on Japanese twitter.

But it doesnt affect already stablished series, since those having a weak Chapter some week wont affect the overall performance of the series.

Yes, but it seems it depends more on Jump's own interest than readers interest, in these exceptional cases. At least that's the impression I have, but I can be wrong

Well yeah, I'd say sales >> interest/popularity when comparing both. Series popularity needs to be pretty high and have a Big fandom supporting the continuation of the series to fight a bad sales performance, since money is needed in order to maintain the series going. There's always exceptional series and cases, but for both Saiyuki and Yui their fates arent looking good.

 

[savethecat]

I'm so puzzled with Dr.Stone

For one part is by far the Jump manga of current roster with best promotion in West, even better than Hero Academia or Neverland in my opinion. You can read stuff from lots of people like Yonkou saying ''is the new pillar of Jump". When you ask someone in West about 3 Jump manga of current era, almost all of them will say for sure Hero Academia, Neverland, and Dr.Stone.

However, despite this and despite the ToCs, Dr.Stone is having poor sales in Japan, so poor that is the only title Shueisha hides the sales number because that would be like admitting the push didn't work. And yes, I still think Dr.Stone has been the Jump title with the most pushing in this decade.

Meanwhile Jujutsu Kaisen is the opposite case. It is having very good sales in Japan, but nobody in West cares about it (Yonkou for example treats Jujutsu like a thing that doesn't even exist).

Seems we are in a situation like Dr.Stone is really huge in West and minor in Japan, while Jujutsu is growing in Japan while not existing in West.

I say this all the time every time Stone is called out for being poor selling. I think most of this forum and Jump communities just dislike the series.

Dr.Stone sells very well. It just sells less than a lot of the current roster. However, the sales are still good.

It hasn’t grown in months because it’s likely hit its peak pre-anime sales. Whether or not it grows from the anime is yet to be seen. But it still, every series always hits some sort of ceiling. How big it’s peak is varies.

People constantly clown Stone by saying “Jujutsu and Act-Age are newer than Stone, yet they sell more than Stone. How embarrassing”, as if the 3 series don’t appeal to completely different fan bases.

Idk why Shuiesha and Jump don’t unveil Stone’s sales to date, but the series is by no means a flop, and is definitely a successful series.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2019 ---

We don't know if it's "underpreforming" because we don't know Jump's expectations.
But we can say that, compared to it's ToC positions, it doesn't sell that much.

I think that’s more of an issue with how people view the TOC.

People still view the TOC as a “ranking”. And that, being at the top of the TOC means it’s one of the best sellers in the magazine. When really it’s a place that’s either for promo, or just popular series.
Being at the top doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the most popular in the magazine. They just put A popular series at the top.

Dr.Stone having top positions is more likely because Jump has found that to being one of the better spots for it to perform, rather than Jump making a statement that “this is a pillar of the magazine”

 

[savethecat]

The jump has two vacant spaces left by souma and boruto, and as the jump has already debuted nine manga and canceled two of these new ones, the most logical would be to debut two manga and then start the GFC after the end of Hinomaru zumou (if it ends) .

And it also has the fact that double taisei, beast children and TSS do not work and are used as pillows for saiyuki and kamio yui.

but that is only a personal opinion, most likely not to happen.

Huh? No offense, but how does this relate to my post

 

[Aeneas]

I say this all the time every time Stone is called out for being poor selling. I think most of this forum and Jump communities just dislike the series.

Dr.Stone sells very well. It just sells less than a lot of the current roster. However, the sales are still good.

It hasn’t grown in months because it’s likely hit its peak pre-anime sales. Whether or not it grows from the anime is yet to be seen. But it still, every series always hits some sort of ceiling. How big it’s peak is varies.

People constantly clown Stone by saying “Jujutsu and Act-Age are newer than Stone, yet they sell more than Stone. How embarrassing”, as if the 3 series don’t appeal to completely different fan bases.

Idk why Shuiesha and Jump don’t unveil Stone’s sales to date, but the series is by no means a flop, and is definitely a successful series.

If the series were from two newbies, I'd agree.

 

[Stivie]

But it doesnt affect already stablished series, since those having a weak Chapter some week wont affect the overall performance of the series.



Well yeah, I'd say sales >> interest/popularity when comparing both. Series popularity needs to be pretty high and have a Big fandom supporting the continuation of the series to fight a bad sales performance, since money is needed in order to maintain the series going. There's always exceptional series and cases, but for both Saiyuki and Yui their fates arent looking good.

The jump has two vacant spaces left by souma and boruto, and as the jump has already debuted nine manga and canceled two of these new ones, the most logical would be to debut two manga and then start the GFC after the end of Hinomaru zumou (if it ends) .

And it also has the fact that double taisei, beast children and TSS do not work and are used as pillows for saiyuki and kamio yui.

but that is only a personal opinion, most likely not to happen.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2019 ---

Huh? No offense, but how does this relate to my post

I was wrong, it was to respond to someone else.

 

[animeexpert]

Since we finally have print numbers for Dr.STONE, here's the print numbers for the rest of the lineup around volume 11

HxH - 16.8 million (10 volumes)
One Piece - 16.5 million (10 volumes)
Haikyu!! - 7 million (11 volumes)
MHA - 7 million (11 volumes)
Neverland - 6.5 million (11 volumes)
Soma - 6.3 million (12 volumes)
Black Clover - 3 million (11 volumes)
Kimetsu - 2.5 million (11 volumes)
Yuuna - 2 million (11 volumes)
We Never Learn - 2 million (11 volumes)
Dr.STONE - 2 million (11 volumes)

Remember how everyone here was trashing drstone and it sales. Lmao people hate on an succes of an unique manga that focus on a different fan base (haters gonna hate)

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2019 ---

So, I have a question that's been on my mind for some time. Why isn't there more Jump manga with anthropomorphic characters? I mean, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are still really popular. Yojimbo was popular, etc. In a separate magazine Beastars is extremely popular.

It just seems like a concept that's really underutilized.

There was an WSJ manga & anime about dogs, but why it doesnt normally happen is cuz authors are scared? Or cuz they can relate to ofc being "human" than an random monster

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2019 ---

The twitter Japanese poll for the best of the WSJ Issue 31 has opened, so far it is like this...
1. Jujutsu Kaisen
2. Act-Age
3. We Never Learn
4. Chainsaw Man
5. Haikyuu
6. Sayonara Manuke Yukahan-san (Oneshot)
7. Dr. Stone
8. Kimetsu no Yaiba
9. Hinomaru Zumou
10. Saigo no Saiyuuki
11. Kamio Yui wa Kami wo Yui
12. Beast Children
13. The Promised Neverland/Tokyo Shinobi Squad
14. One Piece/Taisei/Samurai 8/Yuuna
15. Black Clover

Damn black clover that low? Lmfao rip

 

[El Jacco]

I say this all the time every time Stone is called out for being poor selling. I think most of this forum and Jump communities just dislike the series.

Dr.Stone sells very well. It just sells less than a lot of the current roster. However, the sales are still good.

It hasn’t grown in months because it’s likely hit its peak pre-anime sales. Whether or not it grows from the anime is yet to be seen. But it still, every series always hits some sort of ceiling. How big it’s peak is varies.

People constantly clown Stone by saying “Jujutsu and Act-Age are newer than Stone, yet they sell more than Stone. How embarrassing”, as if the 3 series don’t appeal to completely different fan bases.

Idk why Shuiesha and Jump don’t unveil Stone’s sales to date, but the series is by no means a flop, and is definitely a successful series.

I don't think Dr. Stone is recieve with dislike in Jump communities (personally, I see more praise than hate in the communities I follow but thats just anecdotal) but the reason I think Stone is called out for poor sales is for 2 things:

1. The previous works of its authors, specially Inagaki that created a good hit with Eyeshield 21 and, while people will say that Murata was a big reason to read it weekly because of his art, Boichi has shown constantly that he is an incredible artist that brings great emotion to the story. Having Eyeshield as a comparison, and looking the sales of both, it's kinda dissapointing Dr. Stone sales.
(Of course, we still need to remember that the times have changed and that physical sales aren't as big at it was in the E21 era and they are different genres but there still a similarity in the way the story and characters are presented).

I think that’s more of an issue with how people view the TOC.

People still view the TOC as a “ranking”. And that, being at the top of the TOC means it’s one of the best sellers in the magazine. When really it’s a place that’s either for promo, or just popular series.
Being at the top doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the most popular in the magazine. They just put A popular series at the top.

Dr.Stone having top positions is more likely because Jump has found that to being one of the better spots for it to perform, rather than Jump making a statement that “this is a pillar of the magazine”

2. As you said, ToC is not a ranked placement but for promo and popularity and its being shown as that in the last few months: Kimetsu and Neverland are on top because they are in its final arc so they want to promote them more, Black Clover its on the climax of his most larger arc and One Piece is One Piece but with Dr. Stone, it has been the same as always and still being on top. While other series only get to the top because of the occasional 'surprising' chapter, Stone it's on the top even though it has a transitional or a boring chapter, thats why a lot of people say that its getting an undeserved push.
It's having a similar situation as My Hero when it comes to its ToC placement, always in top in its first years, but My Hero always shown a growth in those years meanwhile Stone hit its pre-anime ceiling already volumes ago.
(Of course, different genres so I think this comparison shouldn´t be the same).

 

[RafGL]

Since we finally have print numbers for Dr.STONE, here's the print numbers for the rest of the lineup around volume 11

HxH - 16.8 million (10 volumes)
One Piece - 16.5 million (10 volumes)
Haikyu!! - 7 million (11 volumes)
MHA - 7 million (11 volumes)
Neverland - 6.5 million (11 volumes)
Soma - 6.3 million (12 volumes)
Black Clover - 3 million (11 volumes)
Kimetsu - 2.5 million (11 volumes)
Yuuna - 2 million (11 volumes)
We Never Learn - 2 million (11 volumes)
Dr.STONE - 2 million (11 volumes)

I'm not trying to trash Dr. Stone numbers or anything, but I find them low when thinking about the whole effort that has been behind the series to promote it. Having 2 more covers in the magazine than series like Kimetsu, it's kind of at the same level than WNL or Yuuna, which both have also 3 covers on the magazine. Color Pages are kinda at the same level, having around ~14 or 15 for most of those series (I think Yuuna has less? but can't find them, correct me if I'm wrong). Thinking also about the positions the series has been taking during his whole serialization gives me a weird feeling. I mean, it has been on top of the ToC for a lot of time, and I'm not questioning it's popularity, but how the hell has that position been reflected in series performance? Because the results have been the same as mid-positions series like We Never Learn.

And then's the comparison with both Act-Age and Jujutsu Kaisen. I get that the public which the series is being directed is completely different, but does that also justify the fact that a shonen series which has literally 0 influence in western is at the same exact level as this older series which is getting one of the biggest pushes in anime I have ever seen? By platforms, ads and even more marketing strategies. I seriously think Jump should consider the performance of the series when anime gives results and data that they can measure. I really hope it gets a good boost and series keeps a good pace growing, but I don't think sales reach the expectations we, or at least I, should have had with how the series has been shown to the audience.

In fact, I wouldn't be lying if the only thing I expected of the series was to be at least above Yuuna sales depite it having 16 volumes. Its sales are pretty irregular and popularity is below 0. I get that ecchi sells, but for a series that has had this much relevance, or at least that's the impression I get from the editorial, I find it disappointing for it to not be even close to ghost-titties.

 

[savethecat]

We don’t really know Jump’s process of choosing color pages, or why certain series receives so many.
While we DO know typically a series receives a color page to celebrate a new arc, showcase a character poll, celebrate and anniversary, and promote a new volume, that’s not always the case. So series just have color pages for the sake of having one.

This is just a theory, but it’s possible that a series may given color pages simply because the creators want a color page.
Just like, I’m 90% that the reason why MHA doesn’t receive many covers and color pages anymore is because Horikoshi is just refraining from doing the for whatever reason.

Could be possible that’s Boichi just has the work effort to pump out color pages like crazy(the man was drawing 2 weekly series at one point).

Either way, I’m sure Shuiesha is aware that the series reached its sales peak. I doubt that their mission with these placement and color pages are to boost sales when sales have been the same for over a year.

 

[BaNChiGay]

>MHA on its early day is goes toe to toe with Naruto,OP and AssClass
>no one bats an eye/so deserving
>Dr Stone right now goes toe to toe with Op,TpN and KnY
>everybody lose thier mind
Hmnn... I wonder why?
AH! Hey guys new here. Nice to meet you all!

 

[El Jacco]

>MHA on its early day is goes toe to toe with Naruto,OP and AssClass
>no one bats an eye/so deserving
>Dr Stone right now goes toe to toe with Op,TpN and KnY
>everybody lose thier mind
Hmnn... I wonder why?
AH! Hey guys new here. Nice to meet you all!

Because MHA sold really well in its beginning. Dr. Stone is already on double digits volumes and haven't reach MHA w1 volume 1 sales.
KnY and Black Clover have the same situation.

Also, welcome!

 

[Aeneas]

toe to toe

wait what

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

My main issue with Dr.Stone is what RafGL has said. Is by far the Jump title with most pushing (the one which receives the most covers together with Neverland, plus special promotion). Kimetsu for example has also had anime debut last season and it has had very little promotion from Jump. Similar stuff with Black Clover when anime aired.

Moving to Jujutsu Kaisen, you can see how it has the very same sales number as Dr.Stone with 4 less volumes, and basically no promotion. The pushing movement has in my opinion an effect in West: it has helped Dr.Stone as people started commenting ''it is the next pillar of Jump", while...almost nobody knows or cares about Jujutsu.

PD: I hope we get the Jujutsu anime announcement soon. It would be interesting to see how would it affect to its reception in West. And Pierrot, get your hands away from Jujutsu.