Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

[GrySun]

Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

Spoiler: Examples of Approved roles

I. Troublemaker

II. Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2 (locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.

I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:

• A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
• A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.

Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.

 

[Farfalla]

Hm... Maybe I got it wrong, but I'd said there should be no penalties for claiming a daytime role (whichever) and there should be penalties for falsely using a daytime killing command.
And the latter is just 'cause it sucks... not 'cause it could induce people to reveal things by mistake (after a while they'd learn not to lol) but whenever someone uses a daykill it's such a hype moment that doing it without having the ability kills the thrill and ruins the entertainment purpose of the game.

 

[Vandred]

Hm... Maybe I got it wrong, but I'd said there should be no penalties for claiming a daytime role (whichever) and there should be penalties for falsely using a daytime killing command.

That part was agreed upon by all (four of us), that's why it isn't in question. The rest was still a bit up for debate. Anyway, I take it that makes two of us in favour of the no penalties for claiming whatsoever (option 1).

As for the rest, I'm only for Bodyguard 1 - although the lynch protection from BG 2 could create some funny strategies for mafia - instead of the additional roles.

 

[Lambu]

@Vandred @Farfalla @Lambu @Copy Panda @Hardy@Xadyu @Evil3ye @Ustegius @xi0 here are 4 suggestions how to handle Daytime role claims. Below that the current possibilities for Assassin counters - 4 changes for a current role and 2 new roles. Can you tell here if you like any of these and which ones?

1. No penalties for claims. You can say „I‘m Politician/Vigilante/etc.“ without any host penalties, regardless whether you really are that role or are lying.
2. Partially no penalties. Non daykill-daytime roles like Noble and Politician can be claimed both in truth or with lying. But only real daykillers(Vigilante/Cowboy..) can claim their real role without penalties, anyone lying about being a daykiller is penalized.
3. Mostly penalties. Non daykill-daytime roles like Noble and Politician can be claimed both in truth or with lying. Every daykill role can‘t be claimed without penalties, regardless whether you really are that role or are lying.
4. Full penalties. Roles usable at day aren‘t allowed to be claimed by anyone without penalties.

Then the matter with the Assassin counter:

Bodyguard Currently: The Bodyguard may pick a person he wants to protect each night. When this person is attacked by someone, the Bodyguard becomes the target instead.

Possible Changes

Bodyguard 1: The Bodyguard may pick a person he wants to protect each night. When this person is attacked by someone at night, the Bodyguard becomes the target instead. If both survive the night then his target can‘t die the next day to any daykilling role.

This version is the old BG + the effect of his target being immune to daykills at day.

Bodyguard 2: The Bodyguard may pick a person he wants to protect each night. When this person is attacked by someone at night, the Bodyguard becomes the target instead. If both survive the night then his target can‘t die the next day to any daykilling role. If his target were to get lynched the Bodyguard is lynched instead.

Same as version 1 except also includes the Martyr lynch protection.

Bodyguard 3: Each night the Bodyguard can pick a person he wants to protect and choose whether to protect at night or at day. If at night is chosen, if this person is attacked by someone at night, the Bodyguard becomes the target instead.
If at day is chosen, his target can‘t die the next day to any daykilling role.

A version that lets him choose every night between either protecting at night or protecting at day. A weaker version that needs the BG to decide which protection to give.

Bodyguard 4: Each day and night the Bodyguard can pick a person he wants to protect. When his night target is attacked by someone at night, the Bodyguard becomes the target instead. His day target can‘t die at day to any daykillers.

Strongest version, full freedom of separate night pick during night and day pick during day.

Possible New Roles

Daytime Guard: Can target a person each day who then is protected from any daykillers during that day. (Or make it so that he targets during the night instead of during the day, protecting the following day).

The Bodyguard idea except as it‘s own new role.

Tracker: Can investigate a dead player that was daykilled(day or night action?). On his first investigation he gets 5 names, one of which is the killer of that player. Every new investigation of a dead player that was daykilled by the same daykiller decreases the list of names by 1.

Meant to both help town find a reckless Assassin as well as put some risks on the Assassin kill usage, making them think twice whether to use it.

Thoughts?

For the penalties when claiming:

My vote would go to Nr. 2

Claiming a normal daytime role shouldn't be a matter of punishment, liars will get the shot backwards when they do anyway (at least in most cases). But Daykilling roles shouldn't be treated the same, only the real deals should be able to claim it or else I can see it becoming a common pressure tool.
It might look fun, but it would also bring trolling as a " meta" way to unmask scum or survive, and that isn't my cup of tea.

Im neutral towards Nr. 3 tho.


As for the BG upgrade:

My vote goes to Nr 4

Bodyguard needs to be actually useful and that would surely make it relevant at last. Only want to point out that I would prefer that the BG can only choose his Daytime protection target once (no changing without limit like they Martyr was...).
Also I would expect that the Daytime protection can also be set before the day begins. Its not fair that the Assassin gets to kill because it was waiting before the screen for the thread to open while the BG is busy irl you know.

"Tracker" looks interesting, but right now sounds like a bit too powerful counter against Assassin. It doesn't matter that the 5 name list is random, if the list is made the Assassin is toast

 

[GrySun]

Hm, like this we didn‘t get very far, but at least we know what a handful of us like.

For the rules I think like Lambu and prefer option 2, making it a 2-2 between the 1 and 2. Though I wouldn‘t be against testing either one.

For the role, my favorite is Bodyguard 1, most simple and straightforward. Though 4 has the advantage of being able to protect the suddenly-revealed Det right away as opposed to only next night. 2s Martyr thing could be used for mafia lies and interesting plans, while 3 is probably not a good idea since his night protection isn‘t great anyway to ever pick it instead of the day one. Especially in games where there‘s no Assassin anyway.
Though I also like both Daytime Guard and Tracker ideas.

Tracker" looks interesting, but right now sounds like a bit too powerful counter against Assassin. It doesn't matter that the 5 name list is random, if the list is made the Assassin is toast

If 5 is too much then how about he first gets half of the currently alive player list, and every further investigation on another victim halves that list?

 

[Lambu]

Just want to point out that Im not against BG1, only that my preference is the 4th.

If 5 is too much then how about he first gets half of the currently alive player list, and every further investigation on another victim halves that list?

Could be a nice patch, but doesnt really remove the problem of random list generator.

In some cases the Assassin may not get outright exposed with the first investigation (I expect 9 names or so), but depending on Luck that list might not even be a cover.
Rule out the people that weren't online around that period, then people with solid claims and you will get a very small group to select from.

Then the second investigation happens and that list halves: the Assassin is dead. The Tracker wont reveal its role till the second one anyway (unless the culprit is obvious).

Idk, Im just not a big fan of an investigative role whose purpose resides in RNG. I would prefer that the Tracker chooses a bunch of people and then he receives if in between them theres an Assassin or not.
Feels fairer for the Assassin and more skill based for the player.

 

[Farfalla]

I like BG4 the most. He becomes a sane day doctor and still has a risk of dying at night in his target's place. Makes the role more fun to play with, imo, and I don't think it looks broken.

I think the part that says that both have to survive the night in the other versions makes it really hard for him to use the day protection. Unless he doesn't die in his target's place at night and I'm missing something...

 

[GrySun]

Just want to point out that Im not against BG1, only that my preference is the 4th.



Could be a nice patch, but doesnt really remove the problem of random list generator.

In some cases the Assassin may not get outright exposed with the first investigation (I expect 9 names or so), but depending on Luck that list might not even be a cover.
Rule out the people that weren't online around that period, then people with solid claims and you will get a very small group to select from.

Then the second investigation happens and that list halves: the Assassin is dead. The Tracker wont reveal its role till the second one anyway (unless the culprit is obvious).

Idk, Im just not a big fan of an investigative role whose purpose resides in RNG. I would prefer that the Tracker chooses a bunch of people and then he receives if in between them theres an Assassin or not.
Feels fairer for the Assassin and more skill based for the player.

Then something like he gets to pick some number of people each daykill to ask the host if the Assassin is among them? Like threesome searches. But eh, I guess this idea fails for now.

I like BG4 the most. He becomes a sane day doctor and still has a risk of dying at night in his target's place. Makes the role more fun to play with, imo, and I don't think it looks broken.

I think the part that says that both have to survive the night in the other versions makes it really hard for him to use the day protection. Unless he doesn't die in his target's place at night and I'm missing something...

BG4 can PM his actions separately, meaning his target for the night and for the day doesn‘t have to be the same person. Just feels like it‘s overcomplicating the role by letting it have two independent functions in BG4, and this way is a better combo than Martyr with cowboy and prosecutor.

 

[gnut]

Just plain and simple...BG can protect either day or nite.
Not both....think its not that complicated.

I still dont like them tanking a lynch...

 

[GrySun]

Just plain and simple...BG can protect either day or nite.
Not both....think its not that complicated.

I still dont like them tanking a lynch...

That‘d be the BG3 option, which nobody else picked so far.

 

[Hardy]

Just plain and simple...BG can protect either day or nite.
Not both....think its not that complicated.

I still dont like them tanking a lynch...

I pick bg3 as well. No point in having a worse or better doctor, but an alternative, and this does it.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2019 ---

For claiming day roles, I say anything goes except pretending to use the role, because it's a pain in the ass for the players and host/s. Politician and Noble are lame as fuck as people usually just say " can't claim " lol.

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Neutral opinion. Had a few people liking them, but majority was neutral on them:

If we tweaked a neutral option, could it/they be allowed for testing in the game?

 

[GrySun]

If we tweaked a neutral option, could it/they be allowed for testing in the game?

Sure, if it‘s a good tweak. Description needs to be submitted and if it‘s good it gets approvals and put into the list.

Nowadays it goes pretty fast, me Vand Farf and Lambu can get it approved or disapproved rather fast.

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Danke

We will get on that then.

 

[GrySun]

Some suggestions:

1. Mafia Mason change, so he can start without being a fake starting Mason, but someone that can be recruited by the Recruiter without the Recruiter dying. Like a Sleeper Super Mason, except he's already a mafia

2. Real Traitor dies immediately when the last mafia of his mafia group dies, if he hasn't been recruited yet

3. Here I'd suggest a change to Witch to make it less similar to Vengeful Townie, but not sure what kind of change. Any ideas, apart from just removing the role?
Either A. focusing on keeping her Curse-killing aspect but making it unrelated to lynches or
B. Scrap everything and make something new that relates to Witches

Idk about any B option at the moment, but for A. I was thinking something like:

Witch 1: The Witch can select a player at the start of the game. If that player dies the enraged Witch can curse any other player who will die the next night. This is a night action and can be blocked, but once the Curse was successfuly done the kill of the next night cannot be prevented in any way.

Witch 2: The Witch can select a player every night. If the Witch dies then she curses the last player she selected(or is allowed to pick between all players she targeted so far during night) who will then die the next night. This Curse kill cannot be prevented in any way.

Thoughts? @Vandred @Lambu @Farfalla @Xadyu @Copy Panda @Hardy

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Discord Gry

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2019 ---

@Vandred

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2019 ---

Witch 1: The Witch can select a player at the start of the game. If that player dies the enraged Witch can curse any other player who will die the next night. This is a night action and can be blocked, but once the Curse was successfuly done the kill of the next night cannot be prevented in any way.

This is so similar to the version we were going for for a new role that I sent to Van, Pom, and Asako last night.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2019 ---

Mafia Ghoul (Mafia) version 1.5: At the beginning of the game (very beginning), the ghoul choose one player to eat from. Should the ghoul die then the player dies too. If the player dies before the ghoul dies, then the ghoul can switch targets.
(still so kind of like the original where it doesn’t count toward the mafia kill but more of an immediate kill then v1-3; almost like shapeshifting timebomb as oppose to the killer Jesus, but could still come back from the grave in theory and finishes its victim)

Also about it being unblockable kill. We propose a Defuser..... I mean...

Exorcist (Townie): The Exorcist has the ability to stop the mafia ghoul from targeting a player either by:
A. Choosing player/players to protect from the beginning
B. Selecting player to protect every phase

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

Ghoul? Kaneki-kun

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Ghoul? Kaneki-kun

Kaneki (Third party): has the ability to eat people and transform into their role each night

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2019 ---

 

[Hardy]

I only really agree with the traitor change (although, in a setup with multiple mafias, it would reveal the sanity of the insane traitor?). Mafia mason is fine, witch 1 is kinda too complicated and witch 2 is basically "butthurt bomb" but I do like that option. No need to make it unblockable, imo, though. Maybe you can pick someone every night, who dies with you until you pick someone else (includes lynching).

 

[GrySun]

I only really agree with the traitor change (although, in a setup with multiple mafias, it would reveal the sanity of the insane traitor?). Mafia mason is fine, witch 1 is kinda too complicated and witch 2 is basically "butthurt bomb" but I do like that option. No need to make it unblockable, imo, though. Maybe you can pick someone every night, who dies with you until you pick someone else (includes lynching).

With insane traitor you man naive one? I don‘t think it‘s likely for him to not figure out his sanity by the time it takes for one whole mafia team to die, which takes several phases.

Hm so you think M Mason should only ever be a starting mason? Makes it a bit predictable maybe, but fair enough.

Thanks for the Witches feedback. Not sure if something like this is better for a town or mafia role yet. And it being unblockable is simply because it‘s a curse, can‘t be protected by normal means like medicine. Along with it being a delayed kill so it should have something going for it.

 

[Crescent Jinx]

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2019 ---

This going to take forever, isn’t it?