One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Why is Pica a big deal? I will give you this, Zoro was the best set strawhat to take him down and even that seemed difficult till he did it. Surely Sanji nor Luffy would have the ability at that point to take him down. But thats also because Dressrosa terrain. Doubt Pica would be able to do that if they fought elsewhere.

Why do you think Luffy wouldn't have had the ability to take him down? Luffy's gatling punches would have targeted multiple areas of the stone and make it harder for Pica to switch, while he had CoO to help him detect where Pica would be. His haki should also theoretically be superior to Pica's as well.

 

[nik87]

Law is physically weaker than Vergo in physical strength.
But his combat ability is superior mostly because of his DF.

Are you trying to determine who is physically stronger of who is stronger overall? Because the first makes no sense....

 

[thedude]

Most balanced crew with Beckman, Roo and Yasopp all 3 making names for themselves and Beckmans past hype of being taken in same breath as Shanks means their top 10> any other crew's top 10.

I am sure there was confirmation somewhere that he lost a considerable amount of power due to losing a hand and logically since he was Nitoryu swordsman in the past. That is the reason why Mihawk considers him a has-been in the first place, he doesnt see him as a worthy challenge anymore.

I gave you valid points...

...why on earth do you feel the need to embarrass yourself like this?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2019 ---

Of course Kaido and the Beast Pirates could defeat Shanks and the Red-Haired Pirates. But we heard the Yonko and their crew are so close in power to each other that the losses would be incredible. Kaido would loose 90% of his crew in a war with Shanks.

"of course"...and yet...

You guys need to stop making these grand, definitive pronouncements. Shanks tiny crew was enough to scare off the Marines and Blackbeard, all after stopping Kaido from going to the war. "of course he'd lose" is something without any evidence in the manga. At all.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Doflamingo flat-out said that Law's ability wouldn't work against Vergo because his Haki was superior... meaning that it worked because Law had the greater Haki of the two. He would have killed Vergo if he didn't used his Devil Fruit.

I'm thinking If he didn't use his room ability he wouldn't have been able to cut Vergo. He needed to use room to bypass Vergo's Haki defense.
Dofy isn't the owner of the Ope Ope no mi so he most likely thought wrongly.

 

[nik87]

...why on earth do you feel the need to embarrass yourself like this?

What? Can you be specific instead of I cannot even... embarrass yourself.... ?

If Shanks crew was the strongest, why did Brannew said they were the most "balanced", instead of saying "strongest"? :|

Most balanced because other Yonko crews are not. Strong captain weak members, not the case with Shanks' crew.

 

[hokageji]

He is a big deal because very few possess the destructivity to drive him out of stone mountain and not many can deal with a "town falling" onto them.
I agree, there is a terrain advantage/disadvantage, on a ship on the sea, he would be far easier to deal with but in Dressrosa he is trouble for many.
Still, even without terrain advantage, he pulled the same full-body haki feat like Vergo and he uses a big sword which could possibly inflict more damage than Vergo's bamboo stick.

Well, so basically we agree...

Why do you think Luffy wouldn't have had the ability to take him down? Luffy's gatling punches would have targeted multiple areas of the stone and make it harder for Pica to switch, while he had CoO to help him detect where Pica would be. His haki should also theoretically be superior to Pica's as well.

Not in Dressrosa. His Golem ability literally made him most of the island. Even Zoro couldn't do shit till Pica started moving away. Once Zoro managed to isolate Pica, he was able to beat him. Cutting techniques split parts, punches dont. Luffy may be able to shatter stuff, but splitting them is a feat only a skilled swordsmen can achieve.

So yes, in Dressrosa, Luffy would have disadvantage, same goes with Sanji. Outside, different story.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Of course it is CoA feat, one that only two characters in entire One Piece have been capable of and both were the best swordsmen of their eras.
Mihawk's casual sword swing against Luffy has cut up a frozen mountain wave.
Akainu's DF is most offensive but it isnt strongest, we already know it is Tremor fruit, it is just misinterpreted by what offensive means...
Mihawk only showed up in MF to keep his Warlord title, he had no objective there and it is confirmed that he doesnt go all out when hunting rabbits.



I am sure there was confirmation somewhere that he lost a considerable amount of power due to losing a hand and logically since he was Nitoryu swordsman in the past. That is the reason why Mihawk considers him a has-been in the first place, he doesnt see him as a worthy challenge anymore.

I gave you valid points...

Shanks clashed with the strongest Yonko and Strongest Marine

Mihawk has done literally NOTHING in comparison. Your comparing Mihawk cutting ice to Shanks stopping an Admiral lol. Your can say black blade until your blue in the face, but Mihawk hasn't done anything with that blade that no one else can do...

As to your second point, There is no such confirmation at all lol now your making stuff up. Not a single quote says Shanks lost a considerable amount of power.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Are you trying to determine who is physically stronger of who is stronger overall? Because the first makes no sense....

The first makes every sense since Haki is a part of it. And we know a stronger Haki gives a stronger attack and defence.
The second cannot be determined unless via conjecture in both Vergo and Pica's case cos overall strength has multiple factors.

 

[Fox666]

I'm thinking If he didn't use his room ability he wouldn't have been able to cut Vergo. He needed to use room to bypass Vergo's Haki defense.
Dofy isn't the owner of the Ope Ope no mi so he most likely thought wrongly.

I don't see any reason to assume Doflamingo was wrong. Maybe in real-life you can't claim that a magical ability won't work against a magical aura until you perform a scientific test... but apparently a character in One Piece can claim that a Devil Fruit won't work because of Haki.

Also, why didn't Law tried to slice Doflamingo the same way? I can only assume that he knows his ability won't work if the opponent has a stronger Haki.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I don't see any reason to assume Doflamingo was wrong. Maybe in real-life you can't claim that a magical ability won't work against a magical aura until you perform a scientific test... but apparently a character in One Piece can claim that a Devil Fruit won't work because of Haki.

Also, why didn't Law tried to slice Doflamingo the same way? I can only assume that he knows his ability won't work if the opponent has a stronger Haki.

That's true. I totally agree.

 

[thedude]

Straight outta my butt.


Careful with Red Snitch feats, a bloody Jinbe has stopped Akainu with his bare hand.
Black blade is a proof of better CoA feat. WSS title is proof of Mihawk>Shanks, not the other way around.
Clashing weapons with WB doesnt makes him equal to WB.

That's not from the manga, so I wouldn't have seen it. And even that says "take it with a grain of salt". Again, you are reaching, all to get to "Mihawk > Shanks, therefore Zoro > everyone when he becomes strongest swordsman". It's so lame.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2019 ---

Beckmen description in the Vivre Card has some ambiguous note about how strong he is.

As usual, some fans take the information in the databooks out of proportion... bonus points for using sources that add their own interpretation instead of direct translations.

I hadn't seen that card. Like you say though, it's taken out of proportion and giveng a "nik87" spin.

 

[nik87]

That's not from the manga, so I wouldn't have seen it. And even that says "take it with a grain of salt". Again, you are reaching, all to get to "Mihawk > Shanks, therefore Zoro > everyone when he becomes strongest swordsman". It's so lame.

It is not reaching at all lmao. Shanks is a swordsman and it is Mihawk who is WSS, not Shanks. That's a fact in the manga, no reaching.
Zoro WSS> every other swordsman is guaranteed, it would be silly to think otherwise.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Straight outta my butt.


Careful with Red Snitch feats, a bloody Jinbe has stopped Akainu with his bare hand.
Black blade is a proof of better CoA feat. WSS title is proof of Mihawk>Shanks, not the other way around.
Clashing weapons with WB doesnt makes him equal to WB.

Yes even Jinbe has a better feat than Mihawk. Thanks for further proving my point... if only Mihawk has a feat of equal impressivness.

WSS is only proof Mihawk is the better swordsman, not the better combatant overall. And Mihawk never fought a Yonko level swordsman it seems lol. Too scared to fight Shanks perhaps?

Clashing weapons doesnt show equality, sure... but it is a feat... something Mihawk doesnt have. Mihawks best feat is fighting equally to a Yonko Commander.

 

[thedude]

It is not reaching at all lmao. Shanks is a swordsman and it is Mihawk who is WSS, not Shanks. That's a fact in the manga, no reaching.
Zoro WSS> every other swordsman is guaranteed, it would be silly to think otherwise.

Mihawk himself stated in his first appearance that becoming the king of the pirates is harder than becoming the WSS. Even he acknowledges that it isn't the be-all-end-all you make it out to be.

Shanks is a pirate. He is one who after losing an arm was able to become one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world. And yet...you persist in your delusions.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It is not reaching at all lmao. Shanks is a swordsman and it is Mihawk who is WSS, not Shanks. That's a fact in the manga, no reaching.
Zoro WSS> every other swordsman is guaranteed, it would be silly to think otherwise.

Mihawk never fought a Yonko Level Swordsman. We no longer know if he's the true WSS

It is not reaching at all lmao. Shanks is a swordsman and it is Mihawk who is WSS, not Shanks. That's a fact in the manga, no reaching.
Zoro WSS> every other swordsman is guaranteed, it would be silly to think otherwise.

Only because Mihawk never fought Shanks after he lost his arm.... despite Shanks growing much stronger afterwards and achieving Yonko status

 

[Shasha23]

Shanks clashed with the strongest Yonko and Strongest Marine

Mihawk has done literally NOTHING in comparison. Your comparing Mihawk cutting ice to Shanks stopping an Admiral lol. Your can say black blade until your blue in the face, but Mihawk hasn't done anything with that blade that no one else can do...

As to your second point, There is no such confirmation at all lol now your making stuff up. Not a single quote says Shanks lost a considerable amount of power.

Dude Jimbe also blocked Akainu, you shouldnt take stuff like that too seriously, only Kaido, Linlin and Newgate have respectable feats the rest have nothing, what has Shanks and Teach done...block a punch and beat an overconfident logia, those are not really good feats to use to dismiss another character.

 

[nik87]

Too scared to fight Shanks perhaps?

Yeah, it must be that.

Clashing weapons doesnt show equality, sure... but it is a feat... something Mihawk doesnt have.

Well, you will have to wait, Mihawk fought on Marines side in MF and since WB needed Jozu to babysit him from Mihawk's slash and Admirals taking on WB you cant expect Mihawk to have some amazing feats. The only living man with black blade and WSS title is proof enough, after all only 3 World's Strongest titles are there, 2 of them are confirmed monsters. You expect 3rd one not to be a monster as well?

Mihawk himself stated in his first appearance that becoming the king of the pirates is harder than becoming the WSS. Even he acknowledges that it isn't the be-all-end-all you make it out to be.
Shanks is a pirate. He is one who after losing an arm was able to become one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world. And yet...you persist in your delusions.

Why is it harder? Did it ever cross your mind? Because no matter how strong an individual is, he cannot be PK, it requires putting together a strong crew which is obviously harder than becoming strong yourself. Think.

Mihawk never fought a Yonko Level Swordsman. We no longer know if he's the true WSS

If Mihawk fought Shanks a day before he was proclaimed Yonko you would still be able to make same argument which helps you in no way. Luffy didnt get stronger because he was called 5th Yonko, it is ridiculous.

 

[M3J]

Well, so basically we agree...



Not in Dressrosa. His Golem ability literally made him most of the island. Even Zoro couldn't do shit till Pica started moving away. Once Zoro managed to isolate Pica, he was able to beat him. Cutting techniques split parts, punches dont. Luffy may be able to shatter stuff, but splitting them is a feat only a skilled swordsmen can achieve.

So yes, in Dressrosa, Luffy would have disadvantage, same goes with Sanji. Outside, different story.

Why does he have to split the rocks though? He can break them apart and force Pica to travel to smaller and smaller pieces like Zoro did. And what about Gear 4 punch that was able to damage or looked big enough to damage a town, the attack that he finally beat Doflamingo with? Sanji's the only one I doubt in whether he can beat Pica or not in a place like Dressrosa, but Luffy should be able to.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah, it must be that.

Well, you will have to wait, Mihawk fought on Marines side in MF and since WB needed Jozu to babysit him from Mihawk's slash and Admirals taking on WB you cant expect Mihawk to have some amazing feats. The only living man with black blade and WSS title is proof enough, after all only 3 World's Strongest titles are there, 2 of them are confirmed monsters. You expect 3rd one not to be a monster as well?


Why is it harder? Did it ever cross your mind? Because no matter how strong an individual is, he cannot be PK, it requires putting together a strong crew which is obviously harder than becoming strong yourself. Think.


If Mihawk fought Shanks a day before he was proclaimed Yonko you would still be able to make same argument which helps you in no way. Luffy didnt get stronger because he was called 5th Yonko, it is ridiculous.

"If Mihawk fought Shanks a day before he was proclaimed Yonko you would still be able to make same argument"

Except that's not the case. Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks 10 years ago

Shanks lost his arm 10 years ago, for 4 years his strength did not decline, he didnt lose reknown and in fact became 1 of the 4 strongest pirates in the world lol

 

[Pirate Queen]

Dude Jimbe also blocked Akainu, you shouldnt take stuff like that too seriously, only Kaido, Linlin and Newgate have respectable feats the rest have nothing, what has Shanks and Teach done...block a punch and beat an overconfident logia, those are not really good feats to use to dismiss another character.

I'm not dismissing another character. Im saying 1 has better feats than the other, which is a fact.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2019 ---

Shanks was upgraded to the level of Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Kaido... and somehow he lost strength after losing his arm? Despite becoming 1 of the 4 strongest?

This is pretty humerous

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2019 ---

Dude Jimbe also blocked Akainu, you shouldnt take stuff like that too seriously, only Kaido, Linlin and Newgate have respectable feats the rest have nothing, what has Shanks and Teach done...block a punch and beat an overconfident logia, those are not really good feats to use to dismiss another character.

Jinbe blocking just proves even he has better feats than Mihawk.