One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[jaymizzo]

Mihawk fought on Marines side in MF and since WB needed Jozu to babysit him from Mihawk's slash

This is trying too hard now

 

[Shasha23]

I'm not dismissing another character. Im saying 1 has better feats than the other, which is a fact.
Jinbe blocking just proves even he has better feats than Mihawk.

Yeap he has a better feat, even Jinbe has better feats than Shanks and Teach, he was able to land a solid hit on Linlin that send her flying same goes for Luffy who did the same to Kaido, but you guys really shouldn't get too worked up on this since it looks like Oda is really is pushing for the end so we will likely see these guys fight next year so just calm down and wait.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is trying too hard now

Mihawk fans losing ground....

This is what's happening.

The entire BASIS for which One Piece fans considered Mihawk > Shanks is several things
1. Mihawk and Shanks are swordsmen and Mihawk is the WSS so Mihawk >Shanks
2. Mihawk was Shanks rival even AFTER Shanks became a Yonko
3. Mihawk is looking for someone that surpasses Shanks

This chapter completely destroys the above 3 points because of the following

1. Mihawk NEVER fought YONKO Shanks.
2. Mihawk was a rival to Shanks BEFORE he became Yonko.
3. Mihawk refuses to fight Shanks because of his missing arm, despite Shanks having grown into someone that can at least "clash" with a Yonko and Admiral.
4. Mihawk has no way of knowing how Strong Shanks actually is now that hes developed into a Yonko.

My final points:

-There is now factually NOTHING that puts Mihawk over Shanks.

-It CANNOT be argued that Shanks is the better swordsman than Mihawk. Mihawk is the WSS and it has never been disputed. Shanks and Mihawk just stopped fighting. Mihawk has 0 way of knowing how much strength Shanks lost/gained because he refuses to fight him

And it needs to be reinstated that Mihawk sought out Shanks, not the other way around. So when Shanks lost his arm, Mihawk just stopped seeking him out.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2019 ---

Yeap he has a better feat, even Jinbe has better feats than Shanks and Teach, he was able to land a solid hit on Linlin that send her flying same goes for Luffy who did the same to Kaido, but you guys really shouldn't get too worked up on this since it looks like Oda is really is pushing for the end so we will likely see these guys fight next year so just calm down and wait.

I'm just having fun. I'm not being overly serious.

I am making points that are factual tho.

Yes Jinbe has better feats than Shanks. But that wasnt the discussion at hand. The discussion was, who had better feats. Mihawk? Or Shanks?

Shit, Luffy has better feats than Mihawk, but that wasnt the point I tried to make.

 

[nik87]

"If Mihawk fought Shanks a day before he was proclaimed Yonko you would still be able to make same argument"
Except that's not the case. Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks 10 years ago
Shanks lost his arm 10 years ago, for 4 years his strength did not decline, he didnt lose reknown and in fact became 1 of the 4 strongest pirates in the world lol

I know, that wasnt my point. Well since he is a swordsman and Mihawk holds the WSS seems like he isnt 1 of the 4 strongest. The strongest is vague in Garp's statement and doesnt necessarily refer to an individual's strength but to crew strength. Even Blackbeard was probably stronger than him back at that point lol and if Rocks is alive I am sure a try hard could make an argument of Shanks not being in top 10 even.

Thats true, he got called the 5th Yonko because he proved his strength in many forms. He had to grow a whole lot to be considered the 5th Emperor and even then majority are still skeptical of his growth to that position (powerwise) nevertheless, he had to grow a significant amount to get to that level.
Shanks had to grow a whole lot after he lost his arm. And WSS does not mean stronger than everyone. Mihawk is WSS but Whitebeard/Roger were hailed as the strongest.

Proved his strength=/=grown stronger. He was always stronger than Katakuri but his strength was neutralized and he couldn't apply it in that fight. Luffy's strength before being called 5th Emperor and after being called that is barely any different.

Mihawk fans losing ground....

On the contrary. With Roger and Rocks being revealed as swordsmen Mihawk is only gaining hype and since Zoro plans to be the greatest swordsman ever it is a celebration in team Mihawk/Zoro.

 

[McNuss]

Actually I don't think it was necessarily a stronger Haki that defeated Vergo. Laws fruit works on a stamina basis. He can't pull infinite operation magic stuff, it takes a toll on his stamina.

So Laws cutting power is based on the stamina consumed, and by consuming enough stamina he can bypass a strong Haki such as Vergo's.

If it was just Haki infusion, the attack wouldn't have split the entire mountain range as well (since Laws cuts are magical and not power-based). On the other hand Law never showed such an ability again, likely because it is unsuited for actual combat since if your opponent still blocks it with Haki, you are out of energy and lose.
In Vergo's case Law knew he could bypass the defense, and Vergo rushed in blindly, providing the opportunity for the hit. Essentially Vergo lost due to a huge misjudgegment here. (Not saying he wouldn't lose to Law either way, but in this specific instance)

 

[Fox666]

Why doubt Doflamingo word about how the Ope Ope no Mi and Haki works?

The easiest explanation is that Law cut Vergo because his Haki was stronger, and he sliced the mountain because that's what happens when a swordman of Law's level swings his sword.

 

[nik87]

He was never confirmed the stongest individual, just that he belongs to the most powerful race/species.
Whitebeard was confirmed the most powerful individual.

Whitebeard was confirmed as World's Strongest Man, Kaido is not a man and of all creatures, which includes a man, Kaido is the strongest one.

You said "Shanks crew is hyped as the best of all Yonkos and Kaido is confirmed as the strongest individual." when talking about this chapter and even if that wasn't the case, you are saying it now i.e even the bounties are confirming who the strongest is. And from what we know Kaido is the strongest creature/species not the strongest pirate or character. And leftovers? Really? Oda's usage of the numbers and their meanings to assign bounties are not even a little influential? Ok then.

In this very chapter, Kaido was praised for his sheer strength, no other Emperor has gotten such treatment and why would they when they cant match his...
1 on 1, always bet on Kaido is not clear enough?
Leftovers, yes. You can remove those numbers you pointed out and their first two digits dont change, no impact on the bounty aka irrelevant point.

Spoiler: sheer strength

Spoiler: 1vs1 WSC

 

[Brandish μ]

In terms of durability or something like that, I think Kaido is the best.

Offensively, Whitebeard would be.

That's how I see it.

 

[goldb]

In terms of durability or something like that, I think Kaido is the best.

Offensively, Whitebeard would be.

That's how I see it.

And just to piggyback off this, to me, what Kaido's introductory narration refers to is his devil fruit form; that when in his devil fruit form he is the strongest creature. That's why in a 1v1 fight wherein he'd be able to use his mythical dragon ability, he'd be favoured. As it would amplify his strength, durability but also add flight and long range destructive blasts.

As a collective we need to identify that when the term creature is used for Kaido, it's referring to his devil fruit ability. He is human. There's a lot of us that I don't think have grasped yet.

 

[M3J]

In terms of durability or something like that, I think Kaido is the best.

Offensively, Whitebeard would be.

That's how I see it.

I think overall, Kaidou's probably the best, while Whitebeard offensively is the top because of gura gura no mi as well as his physical strength. I don't know if his physical strength is enough, but Kaidou could be superior to Whitebeard and still lose because of the gura gura no mi's might, especially against living things.

 

[Fox666]

Bounties don't equal strength. Kaido is the strongest, but Whitebeard is older, and don't have a screw loose, so he got further than Kaido.

 

[AmitDS]

Whitebeard was confirmed as World's Strongest Man, Kaido is not a man and of all creatures, which includes a man, Kaido is the strongest one.

In this very chapter, Kaido was praised for his sheer strength, no other Emperor has gotten such treatment and why would they when they cant match his...
1 on 1, always bet on Kaido is not clear enough?
Leftovers, yes. You can remove those numbers you pointed out and their first two digits dont change, no impact on the bounty aka irrelevant point.

Spoiler: sheer strength

Spoiler: 1vs1 WSC

So are you saying Kaido > Prime WB? A man is a creature so unless his title is only 2 years old, WSC refers to him being the strongest species and not strongest pirate since as we know mutants like Big Mom, OP DF users like WB and haki masters like Shanks exist as humans and can gain power to equal or surpass his (case in point Roger/WB/Garp).

And are you actually twisting this page?

He's praised for rallying allies and becoming an emperor after Rocks because of his sheer strength. That has nothing to do with the other emperors and him being more powerful than them. It just means that due to his great power he was able to become an emperor after being an apprentice on Rocks 38 years ago.

Furthermore the fact that Shanks skirmished with him and stopped him and Big Mom for example has been fighting vs Kaido equally, Kaido's own men said she stands head to head with him debunks your claim and actually supports that the 'bet on Kaido' statement is as a result of the weird immortal species he is and not because he actually has more power/skills than Big Mom, Shanks and WB. And that's ignoring that Garp and the WG have held him on the same level as Big Mom/Shanks before.

I know you want Kaido to be stronger than everyone else so that a certain green haired swordsman possibly cutting him this arc can be hyped more but it's already been shown and proven that he isn't stronger than the other emperors, specifically Big Mom and Whitebeard.

 

[M3J]

Bounties don't equal strength. Kaido is the strongest, but Whitebeard is older, and don't have a screw loose, so he got further than Kaido.

Whitebeard not having a screw loose would actually get him a lower bounty, as he'd be less dangerous and destructive. Kidd is an example, during Shabondy Arc. But as you said, Whitebeard is older, extremely powerful, and had a huge fleet, so his bounty would be higher. Plus, he was seen as Roger's rival and the second strongest after Roger.

But yeah, bounties don't just equal strength, as you said, they take other things into play as well, mainly the danger to the WG/citizens. Whitebeard was also said to have the power to destroy the world, apparently, which didn't help, and Roger's aim was to get to Raftel, and he probably knew the actual history as well. Odd part is that Roger and Whitebeard's bounties should have shot up, and Whitebeard's should have been the highest among pirates. At least in Kaidou and Big Mom's case, they probably weren't as active in the past few years to warrant bounty increases.

 

[nik87]

So are you saying Kaido > Prime WB? A man is a creature so unless his title is only 2 years old, WSC refers to him being the strongest species and not strongest pirate since as we know mutants like Big Mom, OP DF users like WB and haki masters like Shanks exist as humans and can gain power to equal or surpass his (case in point Roger/WB/Garp).

And are you actually twisting this page?

He's praised for rallying allies and becoming an emperor after Rocks because of his sheer strength. That has nothing to do with the other emperors and him being more powerful than them. It just means that due to his great power he was able to become an emperor after being an apprentice on Rocks 38 years ago.

Furthermore the fact that Shanks skirmished with him and stopped him and Big Mom for example has been fighting vs Kaido equally, Kaido's own men said she stands head to head with him debunks your claim and actually supports that the 'bet on Kaido' statement is as a result of the weird immortal species he is and not because he actually has more power/skills than Big Mom, Shanks and WB. And that's ignoring that Garp and the WG have held him on the same level as Big Mom/Shanks before.

I know you want Kaido to be stronger than everyone else so that a certain green haired swordsman possibly cutting him this arc can be hyped more but it's already been shown and proven that he isn't stronger than the other emperors, specifically Big Mom and Whitebeard.

It doesnt debunk anything. Kaido is yet to be seen in hybrid form which BM didnt fight head to head and he isnt immortal at all.
Hybrid form is considerably above his base form, it is a DF which purpose is to enhance physical stats which no other Yonko has. How do you expect anyone to match that?

Whether Kaido or Whitebeard wins, remains to be seen if it ever gets mentioned but 1 vs 1 bet on Kaido is as clear as it gets. If you choose to go against, your choice, be my guest. Also the toughness and recovery an awakened zoan fruit offers is something no other Emperor has.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Whitebeard was confirmed as World's Strongest Man, Kaido is not a man and of all creatures, which includes a man, Kaido is the strongest one.

Sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. This is something we're all taught in biology, or should be taught.

There's no such thing as a man of all creatures. This is a grammatical blunder if ever there was one.

A man is a gender, not a type of creature.

A Creature is referring to species.

The idea Kaido is not a man is ridiculous statement. He's a male. Law, a doctor, refers to him as a Man.

Kaido is also a man, not the strongest man, Whitebeard was given that title.

Creature is referring to race/species. Like I said Oda already clarified this. He said Kaido's species being the most durable is why Kaido is regarded as the strongest creature.

Humans are the weakest creatures because if you stab them, it's not like they have naturally hard flesh that is impervious to stabbing by metal objects. What Kaido can naturally do, Humans can only do with Haki. Kaido could be asleep and get stabbed, and the knife breaks whereas Humans would have to use Haki to do the same thing because it's unnatural

It really is a matter of just common sense and reading in context. Already explained this back in 2016, all Creature refers to is Species and his title is he's from the strongest species, not the strongest man.

Even when Roger died, Whitebeard was said to be closest to the throne or the only one capable of becoming Pirate King because he was the strongest. Kaido was alive even after Roger died, and even then was still regarded as Strongest Creature. Kaido has always been the strongest creature because he's always been blessed with immense durability... Whitebeard can never be known as the strongest creature because Humans are generally weak, but he can however be known as the strongest man/person. A person/man is a term that transcends species.

 

[nik87]

There's no such thing as a man of all creatures.

Where have I said man of all creatures?

The idea Kaido is not a man is ridiculous statement. He's a male. Law, a doctor, refers to him as a Man.
Kaido is also a man, not the strongest man, Whitebeard was given that title.

Kaido is not a man, men dont have horns...
Whitebeard is also a creature and of creatures Kaido is the strongest one.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Bounties don't equal strength. Kaido is the strongest, but Whitebeard is older, and don't have a screw loose, so he got further than Kaido.

I'm pretty sure he got further than Kaido mainly bcos of his strength.
Edit:
Kaido was still a teenager, apprenticing on a ship where Whitebeard at the same time was close to or already at his prime. That was more than enough time to show the world his strength before Kaido grew into this indestructible beast.
Kaido's now in his prime and WB is dead.

Bounties almost always tells you the power level of who you are dealing with.

Roger and WB at a point where the strongest 2 in their time and they have their bounties to show for it.
The current 4 Yonko are the strongest individuals of the present time and they also have their bounties to show for it.

Hold me for this anytime, anyday, but there'll never be a point in this series where someone who isn't Buggy (just in case this happens) will have at least a billion belly bounty on his head and not be super strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2019 ---

Where have I said man of all creatures?

Kaido is not a man, men dont have horns...
Whitebeard is also a creature and of creatures Kaido is the strongest one.

I totally agree mate.
I mean if man isn't a creature I wonder what actually he is. "The Creator" perhaps? Lol.

View media item 23045
Doubt not. You have backings from the Manga buddy.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Kaido is not a man, men dont have horns...

Please, read a science book,

A man is a gender, not a race buddy, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2019 ---

Whitebeard is also a creature and of creatures Kaido is the strongest one.

Again, you need to improve your scientific base of knowledge, lol.

Whitebeard is a creature in the sense that he's Human. Being a Creature is not an individual thing, it's a label based on anatomy. Seems like this is far too complex for you to wrap your understanding around unfortunately.

Humans cannot be the strongest creatures because they're fragile.

Even Arlong as a Fishman is superior to Whitebeard because Humans are weaker than Fishmen:

1. Humans are 10x weaker than Fishmen at birth.
2. Fishmen can breathe both on land and on water.
3. Fishmen have immense physical abilities and recovery abilities that are superior to Humans.

You can be as ignorant as you want, but the fact is, as Oda said, Kaido's title refers to his Species/race, not to him as a person, lol.

Spoiler

Whitebeard has never been known as the strongest creature because he's Human, he's been known as the strongest person and Kaido was never known as the strongest person because he never was, lol.

It's just a matter of having some knowledge of basic biology.

 

[AmitDS]

It doesnt debunk anything. Kaido is yet to be seen in hybrid form which BM didnt fight head to head and he isnt immortal at all.
Hybrid form is considerably above his base form, it is a DF which purpose is to enhance physical stats which no other Yonko has. How do you expect anyone to match that?

Whether Kaido or Whitebeard wins, remains to be seen if it ever gets mentioned but 1 vs 1 bet on Kaido is as clear as it gets. If you choose to go against, your choice, be my guest. Also the toughness and recovery an awakened zoan fruit offers is something no other Emperor has.

Excuses excuses. Big Mom wasn't using her DF (homies) either and if Kaido wanted to kill her why didn't he just do hybrid from the start since according to you he's stronger and hybrid form would destroy her?

No it isn't remained to be seen really since we know WB = PK = Garp and even then WB is hyped in his prime to be the strongest man/pirate on the planet. I don't doubt that they are generally equal and Kaido vs WB would be extreme diff in WB's favor but yeah hype wise and even feat wise (off panel fighting Roger all the time) puts WB above for now.

And yeah toughness and recovery which is what we've been saying = species/DF =strongest creature = strongest species/race

Oda has been beating it into our heads that the yonko are equal especially recently with Big Mom and Kaido clashing equally and being said to be on the same level/head to head/trying to kill one another for years/with the marines wanting them to take one another out. Each emperor is special and has their own strengths but in a fight and generally, for now, they are equals. Kaido being immortal or w/e doesn't grant him the power to actually beat or overpower another emperor clearly in a straight up 1 vs. 1.

 

[Fox666]

Hold me for this anytime, anyday, but there'll never be a point in this series where someone who isn't Buggy (just in case this happens) will have at least a billion belly bounty on his head and not be super strong.

Why only above 1 billion? We have Robin at age 9 or God Usopp with bounties that doesn't equal their strength. Bounties above 1 billion are just rare. But Luffy 1.5 billion bounty is based on a sensationalist news paper.