Canon Base Luffy vs Zoro

[ThatOtherGuy]

Yes, Sharp objects are the most effective against Luffy. Well, lasers too. And basically all haki embued attacks. And a bunch of other stuff. Luffy is almost normal defense wise since the intro of haki.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes, I posted this very panel... Enel figured it out. And as I said, that's just common sense because if you cut a someone they bleed (unless they have a DF that prevents them from being cut, which Luffy doesnt.)

 

[nik87]

Yes, I posted this very panel... Enel figured it out. And as I said, that's just common sense because if you cut a someone they bleed (unless they have a DF that prevents them from being cut, which Luffy doesnt.)

Yes but rubber suffers the most from slashes since it will suffer more from the wound when it stretches than normal people who dont stretch.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes, Sharp objects are the most effective against Luffy. Well, lasers too. And basically all haki embued attacks. And a bunch of other stuff. Luffy is almost normal defense wise since the intro of haki.

Yes. Thank you. But never has admitted inferiority to swordsmen, which is the discussion being had.

He has never run just because someone is a swordsman.

Luffy encounter fucking MIHAWK (basically a Yonko) and didnt even mention his sword. Now if your facing the WSS and dont see a weakness for yourself then it simply isnt a weakness in his eyes.

Luffy even said "I DONT HAVE TIME TO FIGHT SOMEONE STRONG" not " I CAN'T FIGHT A SWPRDSMAN"

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Luffy fought sucking MIHAWK

Fought? He cancelled his attacks, used Buggy as a scapegoat and got help from Vista(a swordsman) so he could flee.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes but rubber suffers the most from slashes since it will suffer more from the wound when it stretches than normal people who dont stretch.

Nik, I believe you lol. That's not the discussion being had. Luffy has never stated that he needs Zoro to defeat elite swordsmen for him. That was NEVER stated. Not a single panel on any translation.

We as reading know it would make the most sense for Zoro to fight an opposing crews swordsman because it should be Zoro's GOAL to do so.

Entertain this hypothetical with me. Say Mihawk is a member of the Red Hair Pirates as the WSS it would make 0 sense for Luffy to fight Mihawk and Zoro to fight Shanks. It's not that the situation isnt ideal for Luffy it just that Zoro would grow the most out of the situation and that's what we want from our favored character right? To grow?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2019 ---

Fought? He cancelled his attacks, used Buggy as a scapegoat and got help from Vista(a swordsman) so he could flee.

Does that matter?

If I said Luffy ran from a Yonko level character. It doesnt make a difference. Luffy didnt acknowledge him as more dangerous than any other strong person in that war because he had a sword.

Edited it for you.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

that matter?

Dont you see the irony? That he uses a man who can be cut as a defense only to be rescued by a swordsman later? You could say he needs a swordsman to deal with swordsman...

Just as a example... against all 3 admirals he didnt back down, he attacked and didnt hesitated. Against Mihawk... he did.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Dont you see the irony? That he uses a man who can be cut as a defense only to be rescued by a swordsman later? You could say he needs a swordsman to deal with swordsman...

Just as a example... against all 3 admirals he didnt back down, he attacked and didnt hesitated. Against Mihawk... he did.

No! It makes the most sense for an elite swordsman to deal with an elite swordsman! That's it. I just finished telling Nik that.


He reached the platform! The Admirals were the only thing stand between him and Ace! Against Mihawk, he hadn't even reached the scaffold! He was trying to get past Mihawk and Mihawk was pushing him back. Luffy said he didnt have TIME to fight Mihawk.

Time being the keyword here

 

[nik87]

Nik, I believe you lol. That's not the discussion being had. Luffy has never stated that he needs Zoro to defeat elite swordsmen for him. That was NEVER stated. Not a single panel on any translation.

We as reading know it would make the most sense for Zoro to fight an opposing crews swordsman because it should be Zoro's GOAL to do so.

Entertain this hypothetical with me. Say Mihawk is a member of the Red Hair Pirates as the WSS it would make 0 sense for Luffy to fight Mihawk and Zoro to fight Shanks. It's not that the situation isnt ideal for Luffy it just that Zoro would grow the most out of the situation and that's what we want from our favored character right? To grow?

No worries, I am not getting into "Luffy saying that he needs Zoro to defeat swordmasters". With all the differing translations we can barely tell which one translates correctly, at least as close as it can get to its original meaning in Japanese. Whether Luffy said that or not, I dont know but from what I can see, he actually does need Zoro to deal with swordmasters instead of him dealing with them.

The OP history simply backs it up. Oda writes the story to fit Luffy so that he doesnt need to on swordsmen, very convenient that each enemy has 1 swordmaster in his ranks. When you compare current enemies there is always one master swordsman which Luffy doesnt have to deal with because Zoro takes him on, however, look at the old generation, look how many swordsmen there are.

Roger and Rayleigh in the same crew, good luck not having to deal with swordman. Rocks and Shiki in same crew, again 2 swordsmen. In Shanks' crew there are at least 3 master swordsmen it seems and conveniently Luffy will never have a serious fight against them. It just works splendidly in Luffy's favor so he never has to take on a master swordsman. Everything is designed to fit Luffy's needs.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Everything is designed to fit Luffy's needs.

You finally get why Zoro could NEVER defeat base Luffy



Jk jk jk

 

[Rmstorm]

No worries, I am not getting into "Luffy saying that he needs Zoro to defeat swordmasters". With all the differing translations we can barely tell which one translates correctly, at least as close as it can get to its original meaning in Japanese. Whether Luffy said that or not, I dont know but from what I can see, he actually does need Zoro to deal with swordmasters instead of him dealing with them.

The OP history simply backs it up. Oda writes the story to fit Luffy so that he doesnt need to on swordsmen, very convenient that each enemy has 1 swordmaster in his ranks. When you compare current enemies there is always one master swordsman which Luffy doesnt have to deal with because Zoro takes him on, however, look at the old generation, look how many swordsmen there are.

Roger and Rayleigh in the same crew, good luck not having to deal with swordman. Rocks and Shiki in same crew, again 2 swordsmen. In Shanks' crew there are at least 3 master swordsmen it seems and conveniently Luffy will never have a serious fight against them. It just works splendidly in Luffy's favor so he never has to take on a master swordsman. Everything is designed to fit Luffy's needs.

What weapon do you think Luffy should get.

 

[nik87]

What weapon do you think Luffy should get.

I think every version of monkey king has a staff.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think it's too late for Luffy to get a weapon. The fact that he is going to be the strongest without a weapon is more than impressive enough.

 

[nik87]

I think it's too late for Luffy to get a weapon. The fact that he is going to be the strongest without a weapon is more than impressive enough.

Strongest after Zoro and with the help of a DF*

 

[Pirate Queen]

Strongest after Zoro and with the help of a DF*

Zoro won't even be close

 

[kkck]

I would go for zoro tbh. It's hard to make a direct comparison but nowadays luffy relies on gear 2 and 3 even when fighting casually. He mastered them to the extent where there is no real downside to using them in a fight either in terms of stamina or endurance. Meanwhile I could see zoro putting up at least a decent fight against luffy even when luffy uses gear 2 and 3.

On another point, I don't buy the idea that luffy is "weak" to blades. Luffy's rubber body is clearly resistant to blunt impact, that much is a fact. Though there is the added context that that has been toned down quite a bit in the series, specially since the introduction of haki. Slashes and stabs are clearly effective against luffy but they aren't more effective than they would be against a regular person. As in, luffy isn't more vulnerable to stabs and slashes than zoro or sanji are. If anything if his body is rubber, contrary to skin, flesh and muscle, he should have higher resistance to cuts than regular humans.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I would go for zoro tbh. It's hard to make a direct comparison but nowadays luffy relies on gear 2 and 3 even when fighting casually. He mastered them to the extent where there is no real downside to using them in a fight either in terms of stamina or endurance. Meanwhile I could see zoro putting up at least a decent fight against luffy even when luffy uses gear 2 and 3.

On another point, I don't buy the idea that luffy is "weak" to blades. Luffy's rubber body is clearly resistant to blunt impact, that much is a fact. Though there is the added context that that has been toned down quite a bit in the series, specially since the introduction of haki. Slashes and stabs are clearly effective against luffy but they aren't more effective than they would be against a regular person. As in, luffy isn't more vulnerable to stabs and slashes than zoro or sanji are. If anything if his body is rubber, contrary to skin, flesh and muscle, he should have higher resistance to cuts than regular humans.

People debating are confusing weakness with what people are susceptible to.

Humans are susceptible to all types of injuries but they aren't inherently weak to them.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Humans are susceptible to all types of injuries but they aren't inherently weak to them.

What? As a human i can guarantee you i am not weak to blades, but will die anyway if you stab me on the right spot.

Are people who cant eat cheese weak to Lactose?

Dont bring real life into such a discussion, it goes always wrong.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What? As a human i can guarantee you i am not weak to blades, but will die anyway if you stab me on the right spot.

Are people who cant eat cheese weak to Lactose?

Dont bring real life into such a discussion, it goes always wrong.

You are not weak to blades, but your suseptible to them... literally my point.

I'm not bringing real world stuff into it. In the manga if a human gets stabbed it doesnt mean they are weak to getting stabbed it means they are susceptible to getting stabbed.

Huge difference. They get the same amount of damage anyother person would get by being stabbed

 

[nik87]

They get the same amount of damage anyother person would get by being stabbed

Except Luffy who is stretching due to being rubber. He suffers from a cut because of stretching more than others who dont stretch,