Canon Base Luffy vs Zoro

[nik87]

I dont object the idea. I am showing while you are factually wrong. You cant even understand a simple counter point

Luffy breaking Arlong's weapon is not a counter point.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy breaking Arlong's weapon is not a counter point.

You said Oda keeps Luffy away from swordsmen. That panel proves otherwise

 

[nik87]

You said Oda keeps Luffy away from swordsmen. That panel proves otherwise

No, it proves the exact opposite.

 

[Pirate Queen]

No, it proves the exact opposite.

Luffy confronts a swordsman... you say it proves Oda keeps Luffy away from swordsmen... lol fuckn fail

 

[nik87]

Luffy confronts a swordsman... you say it proves Oda keeps Luffy away from swordsmen... lol fuckn fail

1. Arlong isn't a swordsman.
2. No swordsman offers his sword to Luffy for the breaking.
3. You: Oda isn't babysitting Luffy against swordsmen...

 

[Pirate Queen]

1. Arlong isn't a swordsman.
2. No swordsman offers his sword to Luffy for the breaking.
3. You: Oda isn't babysitting Luffy against swordsmen...

1. Arlong isn't a swordsman.
2. No swordsman offers his sword to Luffy for the breaking.
3. You: Oda isn't babysitting Luffy against swordsmen...

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2019 ---

You get proven wrong constantly its laughable

 

[nik87]

You get proven wrong constantly its laughable

Yeah, that's why Cracker was attacking with his biscuit army all the time and only attacked with his sword 3 times in entire fight...
Oda isnt babysitting Luffy against swordsmen while he makes them fight with biscuits instead...

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

*Oda babysits him and keeps him away from swordsmen*



Let's get one thing perfectly clear. Cracker was a swordsmen. Cracker wielded Pretzel (A meito) and was the closest to ever remove a limb from Luffy. Luffy has defeated a Yonko Commander Level Swordsmen before Zoro.

You can cry all you want, but it happened. Even with Preztel, Cracker was unable to land a single critical hit on Luffy after fighting for hours.

Let me guess your response: "Cracker isn't a "pure swordsman"

My response: Bullshit. Cracker wielded Preztel in more panels than Rayliegh and Roger wielded a sword and you are so quick to say they are swordsmen. Fujitora is a swordsman and uses a DF like Cracker, but Fujitora is a swordsman. But you single out Cracker, what a joke.

Cracker is definitely a swordsman, since even his buiscuit armor and soldiers still have biscuit swords and presumably use them.

Fujitora is one as well since he channels his fruit power through his sword somehow. He always unsheaths it when using his power.

Honestly though, I feel like there should be a distinction between characters who care about the title of world's greatest swordsman and characters who don't. Mihawk met Vista for the first time and was genuinely interested in fighting him. It seems to me like this shows that Mihawk didn't already beat every noteworthy swordsman who ever was in this era. And it also shows that normie swordsmen (like Vista and Zoro) are mostly the ones who are interested in competing for such a title, and the ones who are most interested in developing their sword skills.

 

[nik87]

Cracker is definitely a swordsman

He didnt say: I am a swordsman with powers of BIS-BIS fruit. He said he is a biscuitman, a craftsman at heart.
He was never classified as swordsman to my knowledge and rightfully so considering that it is far from his primary combat style.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

He didnt say: I am a swordsman with powers of BIS-BIS fruit. He said he is a biscuitman, a craftsman at heart.
He was never classified as swordsman to my knowledge and rightfully so considering that it is far from his primary combat style.

Well... seeing as the town he governs is biscuit island and it's presumably made from biscuits. He's a craftsman alright.

Craftsmanship isn't a fighting style though, so that leaves plenty of room to classify him as a swordsman as well. Franky is both a craftsman (using wood), an inventor, and a cyborg. Sanji is both a cook and a martial artist.

Anyway, Cracker uses a sword, and hides inside armor that also uses six swords, and all the golems he produces to fight use swords. I think that means he's a swordsman. This guy is capable of making any weapon he wishes out of incredibly durable biscuits, and still chooses swords.

 

[nik87]

Well... seeing as the town he governs is biscuit island and it's presumably made from biscuits. He's a craftsman alright.

Craftsmanship isn't a fighting style though, so that leaves plenty of room to classify him as a swordsman as well. Franky is both a craftsman (using wood), an inventor, and a cyborg. Sanji is both a cook and a martial artist.

Anyway, Cracker uses a sword, and hides inside armor that also uses six swords, and all the golems he produces to fight use swords. I think that means he's a swordsman. This guy is capable of making any weapon he wishes out of incredibly durable biscuits, and still chooses swords.

Craftsman wasnt my point, Biscuitman was and he has proven to fight with biscuits mainly. Swords made of biscuits arent swords, it is biscuits shaped like swords.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Craftsman wasnt my point, Biscuitman was and he has proven to fight with biscuits mainly. Swords made of biscuits arent swords, it is biscuits shaped like swords.

Or swords made from biscuits

Biscuitman is how he refers to himself as a devil fruit user. Luffy is a rubberman. Mr 3 is a candleman. Look at wikia pages of df users for more examples. Many df users have introduced themselves that way in the manga. And no, I'm not going to look for panels.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Niks definition of a swordsman is fluid. If they make Zoro look good, they are Swordsmen.

If they make Luffy look good they aren't swordsmen

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Luffy looked good against Cracker? Did i miss something? Without Nami he would have been done for.

 

[kkck]

None of this ultimately changes the fact that nothing we know of actually justifies luffy having a weakness to swords. Luffy simply doesn't have the same resistance he does against blunt attacks (which is still at least somewhat limited by other people's haki anyways for some reason) but there is nothing to suggest he is particularly weak against them. he isn't worst off against cuts than people who can't stretch... If anything being able to throw punches while keeping his vitals a fair distance away is at best a slight advantage over conventional brawlers (But not that big since sufficiently skilled swordsmen have absurd range). Luffy is made out of rubber, which is tougher than conventional skin, that should be about the end of the discussion in that regard.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy looked good against Cracker? Did i miss something? Without Nami he would have been done for.

Nik stated Oda protects Luffy from swordsmen! That is an absolute lie because Luffy have confronted swords on several occasions with Cracker being one of them.

Look good as in not having a glaring weakness to his blade.

 

[Shasha23]

None of this ultimately changes the fact that nothing we know of actually justifies luffy having a weakness to swords. Luffy simply doesn't have the same resistance he does against blunt attacks (which is still at least somewhat limited by other people's haki anyways for some reason) but there is nothing to suggest he is particularly weak against them. he isn't worst off against cuts than people who can't stretch... If anything being able to throw punches while keeping his vitals a fair distance away is at best a slight advantage over conventional brawlers (But not that big since sufficiently skilled swordsmen have absurd range). Luffy is made out of rubber, which is tougher than conventional skin, that should be about the end of the discussion in that regard.

We have been told multiple times that when fighting a DF user you have to find their weakness and exploit it, if you really believe Luffy doesnt have a weakness to slashing and cutting then there is no hope for you.

Yes Luffy isnt worse off against cuts than normal people but because every other weapon and attack is useless on him then that means his weakness is slashing and cutting, is this really hard to understand for you people

 

[kkck]

Yes Luffy isnt worse off against cuts than normal people but because every other weapon and attack is useless on him then that means his weakness is slashing and cutting, is this really hard to understand for you people

But... that is my point. That's not what a weakness is. That is simply the closest there is to being able to affect luffy normally. But at worst luffy remains more resistant to cuts than a normal person, on account of rubber being tougher than skin. luffy at worst simply has different levels of overall resistance to different types of damages. A weakness would be something that cripples or limits luffy or his abilities. Or something against which he fares worst than other people. The only thing which could be characterized as a weakness for luffy would be kairoseki or the ocean at this point in the series. Maybe even BB's devil fruit since it would take away luffy's abilities... But that is about it.

 

[Shasha23]

But... that is my point. That's not what a weakness is. That is simply the closest there is to being able to affect luffy normally. But at worst luffy remains more resistant to cuts than a normal person, on account of rubber being tougher than skin. luffy at worst simply has different levels of overall resistance to different types of damages. A weakness would be something that cripples or limits luffy or his abilities. Or something against which he fares worst than other people. The only thing which could be characterized as a weakness for luffy would be kairoseki or the ocean at this point in the series. Maybe even BB's devil fruit since it would take away luffy's abilities... But that is about it.

It is a weakness because its the only thing that can harm him, stop thinking of DF users as normal humans, each and every one of them has a weakness and Luffy's weakness is blades end off.
The story multiple times has stated a DF user has a weakness and blades are the rubber humans weakness, why are you denying this when its a fact?

kkck, blades limit his ability because against any competed person using a blade he cant stretch, his hands almost got chopped off by Mihawk and Cracker,
season stone, oceans, yami yami and haki are not the rubberman's weakness they are the weakness for all DF users!

The only DF type that doesnt have a weakness is zoans, paramecia and logia all have weaknesses

 

[kkck]

It is a weakness because its the only thing that can harm him, stop thinking of DF users as normal humans, each and every one of them has a weakness and Luffy's weakness is blades end off.
The story multiple times has stated a DF user has a weakness and blades are the rubber humans weakness, why are you denying this when its a fact?

kkck, blades limit his ability because against any competed person using a blade he cant stretch, his hands almost got chopped off by Mihawk and Cracker,
season stone, oceans, yami yami and haki are not the rubberman's weakness they are the weakness for all DF users!

The only DF type that doesnt have a weakness is zoans, paramecia and logia all have weaknesses

That's not how anything works.

Mihawk didn't almost chopp off luffys arm because fluffy had a weakness to blades. Mihawk almost did that because luffy was fodder to him. At that stage odds that that mihawk would have easily won a fistfight against luffy... while blindfolded.

As for the cracker bit.... that also doesn't prove your case. Cracker got that hit on luffy because luffy was caught off guard, not because luffy can't stretch his arms against swordsmen. Otherwise luffy wouldn't have been able to stretch his arms at any point after that during the fight. And yet luffy continued to fight using his stretching techniques against not only cracker but his army of swordsmen.

When luffy fights swordsmen in his tier he can stretch his arms and fight normally, that much is a fact. Of course, he could take damage but that is normal in a fight.

As for the zoan thing... not true. Compare, say, luffys fruit with lucci's. Luffy has resistance to blunt attacks and his fruit most likely provides at least some advantage to slashes over a normal human. Overall, luffy simply has a resistance to damage. Then lucci's fruit... does not actually do anything to increase lucci's resistance to blunt attacks or slashes. The most it could do in that regard is enjoy whatever minimal amount of protection a fur coat would provide.

This entire discussion is driven by the absurd idea that luffy having resistance to blunt attacks means he has a weakness to other types of damage when in reality even in other types of damage luffy still enjoys some resistance. Its It's moronic to think that slashes are to luffy what water is to the sand fruit(which is what a weakness is and looks like)...