One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Tell that to Zoro who wanted to kill him first before Kyoshiro easily blocked him. Plus hints more thus far, Zoro fought more Orochi's underlings than Beast Pirates. Think Oda want him strictly face someone Samurai related with Orochi as his target overall.

Luffy also hints to want to beat up jack, but seemed like his big fight will be against kaidou
Hawkins is not samurai, killer is not samurai either, yet zoro fights them. In fact, zoro gets a sword that can hurt kaido, that gives more hype for him to aid luffy against kaido

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Would like to know your guess on his power tier.
Judge is definitely not yonkou-tier. He can easily handle sanji so he must be at least captain-level.
IMO, judge is vice admiral-level, probably near vergo. I don't see judge winning against dressrosa luffy.

 

[Nie Li]

Would like to know your guess on his power tier.
Judge is definitely not yonkou-tier. He can easily handle sanji so he must be at least captain-level.
IMO, judge is vice admiral-level, probably near vergo. I don't see judge winning against dressrosa luffy.

Judge, despite being a warrior, was more of a scientist, and also wasn't genetically modified like his sons, so he should be weaker than them, right? I loved Germa 66 and I hope to see more of them in the near future (at least one serious fight for each of them), and I estimate the brothers to be close to Katakuri/Marco's level. We are lacking feats so I could be enormously wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't reread those chapters since they came out so I could be), but wasn't Judge about to get his ass kicked by Sanji and only beated him in return because he shielded himself with his clone army and Sanji hesitated hitting "bystanders"? Before he knew they were clones designed to follow every orther from Judge. Even a suicide order.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Judge, despite being a warrior, was more of a scientist, and also wasn't genetically modified like his sons, so he should be weaker than them, right? I loved Germa 66 and I hope to see more of them in the near future (at least one serious fight for each of them), and I estimate the brothers to be close to Katakuri/Marco's level. We are lacking feats so I could be enormously wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't reread those chapters since they came out so I could be), but wasn't Judge about to get his ass kicked by Sanji and only beated him in return because he shielded himself with his clone army and Sanji hesitated hitting "bystanders"? Before he knew they were clones designed to follow every orther from Judge. Even a suicide order.

You are right. He took advantage of Sanji's compassion and won the battle. If that fool has no meatshield or raidsuit then Sanji would win. I would argue Sanji can win even if Judge had his Raidsuit and Sanji without.

I am confident Sanji can kick his ass one way or another. Another important thing to note is the reason why they fight. If it is for the Strawhats or a woman, Sanji will get all fired up and diable jambe til this fucker melts in his suit. Sanji actually has a very durable body. Even when he lost, it didn't really seem like a loss to me. It felt more like something along the lines of...this is getting fucking stupid, this old fuck is just some rich brat with gadgets, I'm just gonna lay here and not waste any more of my skills on this boomer cuz he aint listening. Honestly it just seemed like Sanji was over it. Hahahaha fucking boomers I swear they get annoying af sometimes and we all know what I am talking about.

But on the flip side of things, with age there can be wisdom. Wisdom to exploit others' weaknesses. And wise as he is, I wonder how much Judge experimented with himself. If he has any types of crispr-like genetic augmentations in addition to his raid suit. He knows his genes suck. He wasn't born like Ace who fought adults at a very young age. That is why he needed to enhance his kids because otherwise, they'd suck too. Sanji seem to be the lucky one to have not inherited his bad traits. So I think it may be unsaid but it is safe to infer that Judge personally has some kind of genetic augmentations too albeit done to himself later in life. Vegapunk might even have helped just to gather some useful data.

Either way though, Sanji would still kick his ignorant old ass. when Sanji stood on that table to rescue his family because his brothers were too stupid to, instead of talking to Judge he should have just kicked him in the face enough to give him a makeover like he once did with Duval back on Sabaody or whatever.

To answer the question though, Judge is probably a weak captain tier. Stronger than Brownbeard but weaker than the Funk brothers. Half as strong as Bellamy. Yeah I might be biased here but I really don't think Judge is that tough. Just because like I said, I didn't feel like Sanji really lost. He wasn't even fighting that hard like when he fought all the other baddies. And no Judge is not as strong as Vergo.

And I also have to disagree with the brother's strength too. They are not even close to Katakuri or Marco. For oneKatakuri and Marco is not bogged down by any stupid programming. And two those two do not need a raidsuit to overwhelm their opponents because they are such great beasts in their own right already. And if Katakuri and Marco fought the brothers with their raidsuits on they will still lose. The reason is simple. If your base is strong and you add a suit on top, that person will just be even more powerful. Granted they are genetically modified but I don't see them not overtly relying on their raidsuits so therefore they may be genetically enhanced but may not really train their base forms before donning their suits of shiny armor. Of course, they do not get enough screen time for me to know for sure but it makes sense to me. I can hear Katakuri laughing being compared in strength to these Germa clowns. Don't get me wrong, the whole concept of Germa is great but Judge is a dick. I mean come on with a name called Judge, you have to be a fucking asshole lol.

 

[Nie Li]

And no Judge is not as strong as Vergo.

Definitely not. I felt the same way about Sanji not even being really defeated, yet Sanji felt like his legs would break just from exchanging kicks with Vergo. Vergo would definitely kill Judge, but that's not really shameful since Vergo also beat Smoker.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Forgot one thing, Judge might be vice admiral level. I say this because of the HUGE gap in strength between different vice admirals. Some seem to be pathetically weak being defeated by rookie pirates. Didn't Bartolomeo randomly take one out in Dressrosa's colleseum with like no effort? And then you got people like Garp who help fight the likes of Rocks D. Xebec and Don Chinjao. In short he would be on the lower end of the VA spectrum. Like if Helmeppo became a VA LOL. At this point the VAs seem so useless they might as well let Helmeppo in!

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't reread those chapters since they came out so I could be), but wasn't Judge about to get his ass kicked by Sanji

judge actually was landing some hits on sanji before that. Judge ironically has similar expertise in aerial combat and bested sanji in the short clash.
He's not a scientist but he's pretty good at utilizing his tools, pretty similar to nami

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2019 ---

I estimate the brothers to be close to Katakuri/Marco's level. We are lacking feats so I could be enormously wrong.

I dont think so, to be honest
Ichiji tried to take on katakuri and it only took an off screen pages of about 1-2ish for katakuri to beat ichiji (ichiji was being grasped helplessly at katakuri's hand)

 

[Shasha23]

How strong is Judge? well he is stronger than Sanji

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Judge Top 5

 

[Nie Li]

judge actually was landing some hits on sanji before that. Judge ironically has similar expertise in aerial combat and bested sanji in the short clash.
He's not a scientist but he's pretty good at utilizing his tools, pretty similar to nami

I'll have to reread it later today but he truly didn't make such an impression on me. I mean, he didn't look weak to me, but I remember thinking he as inferior to his children and even to Sanji, who didn't seem to fight that seriously and was still about to kick him right in the face when the clones meddled in.

I dont think so, to be honest
Ichiji tried to take on katakuri and it only took an off screen pages of about 1-2ish for katakuri to beat ichiji (ichiji was being grasped helplessly at katakuri's hand)

You're right about that, I may have fanboyed about them a little bit. They just look so cool.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2019 ---

I guess Katakuri's observation haki is truly something else.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Judge is stronger than Sanji and weaker than Zoro.

 

[nik87]

Would like to know your guess on his power tier.
Judge is definitely not yonkou-tier. He can easily handle sanji so he must be at least captain-level.
IMO, judge is vice admiral-level, probably near vergo. I don't see judge winning against dressrosa luffy.

Around Vergo level at best sounds right. And LUL for your signature.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Zoro vs Orochi happening could hinge on Zoro being related to Ushimaru the daimyo with the fox spirit.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Roger >= prime Rayleigh > old Rayleigh = Kizaru.

Roger = prime Whitebeard > old Whitebeard = Shanks = Kaido = old Big Mom > Akainu >= Aokiji.

Big Mom is from Roger's and Whitebeard's generation, so her prime power level isn't confirmed, but given the pattern of characters getting a bit rusty with age, I'd say she might as well have been comparable to Whitebeard and Roger.

I haven't touched Shiki, Rocks, Garp or Sengoku because we don't have clear evidence of where they fit exactly yet.

This is just me trying to figure things out.

 

[HereNThere]

I don't think he's that strong. I'm fairly certain that all of his kids are stronger than him. I'd put him around Bellamy levels. He has some tricky moves and a decent amount of skill, but would be put down once their opposition takes the fight seriously.

The chapter made it decently clear that Sanji was still haunted by his childhood and it was distracting him quite a bit during the fight. He was having 'Nam flashbacks big time since he got there.

During the fight Judge had the advantage for a bit, even got in several direct blows on his kid. Yet, despite being in a raid suit, only made him bruised enough for teeny tiny bandaid.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Judge is probably Usopplevel. Not really strong by himself but with his intelligence and tools he can put on a fight.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

I don't think he's that strong. I'm fairly certain that all of his kids are stronger than him. I'd put him around Bellamy levels. He has some tricky moves and a decent amount of skill, but would be put down once their opposition takes the fight seriously.

The chapter made it decently clear that Sanji was still haunted by his childhood and it was distracting him quite a bit during the fight. He was having 'Nam flashbacks big time since he got there.

During the fight Judge had the advantage for a bit, even got in several direct blows on his kid. Yet, despite being in a raid suit, only made him bruised enough for teeny tiny bandaid.

LOL NAM FLASHBACKS hahahaha that made my morning. But yeah Judge just exploited Sanji's emotions and shit otherwise Sanji would kick his ass I think.

Judge is probably Usopplevel. Not really strong by himself but with his intelligence and tools he can put on a fight.

This part. Judge just kind of reminds me of...inspector gadget lol. Overall he is not a weak character but he is underwhelming to me.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Judge is Weaker than Sanji, but since we haven't seen Sanji go all out in a 1 v 1 yet... idk if that helps

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2019 ---

Judge wasn't very impressive

 

[King Moe]

Luffy also hints to want to beat up jack, but seemed like his big fight will be against kaidou
Hawkins is not samurai, killer is not samurai either, yet zoro fights them. In fact, zoro gets a sword that can hurt kaido, that gives more hype for him to aid luffy against kaido

Can happen. Could beat Jack before heading to Kaido.

Killer was underling to Orochi, dude. Nah, Kaido fodderize him if he come near him. If he can neg-diff G4, he killing Zoro instantly.

 

[Fox666]

Tell that to Zoro who wanted to kill him first before Kyoshiro easily blocked him. Plus hints more thus far, Zoro fought more Orochi's underlings than Beast Pirates. Think Oda want him strictly face someone Samurai related with Orochi as his target overall.

Orochi appears to be a very incompetent samurai, that's another reason I don't see him being Zoro's opponent in Wano.

A Devil Fruit doesn't make someone strong. They may gain some strange ability, but Zoans in special increase their physical power.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2019 ---

Roger >= prime Rayleigh > old Rayleigh = Kizaru.

Roger = prime Whitebeard > old Whitebeard = Shanks = Kaido = old Big Mom > Akainu >= Aokiji.

Big Mom is from Roger's and Whitebeard's generation, so her prime power level isn't confirmed, but given the pattern of characters getting a bit rusty with age, I'd say she might as well have been comparable to Whitebeard and Roger.

I haven't touched Shiki, Rocks, Garp or Sengoku because we don't have clear evidence of where they fit exactly yet.

This is just me trying to figure things out.

I think characters in One Piece don't get weaker with time, but they loose stamina. That's why Rayleigh was fainting against Kizaru.

If that's the case, Rayleigh in his prime would be closer to Kizaru in power. I also suspects Shanks would also be on that level.

Isn't Kaido supposed to be the strongest of all? I think he has always been stronger than Whitebeard or Roger.