One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Nik, I have just two points.

First... Although Whitebeared's fruit have destructive capabilities, it doesn't mean it can't be stopped. It's a known fact that with strong haki (the most advanced form which Rodger have been clearly shown to have, in case you missed it), you can deflect Whitebeard's abilities easily with a gentle thrust of your palms. The admirals clearly showed his abilities can be stopped. His powers are not invincible.

In just one clash we see Rodger have with WB, we observed that their swords didn't even touch. Their haki was so overpowered that it didn't allow their swords to come in contact. Point here is, your so called "Whitebeared-held-back argument" is of little relevance because they were both using something far stronger and superior to devil fruits powers—which is the most advanced Haki. And I repeat slowly... They were both using something far stonger and superior to devil-fruit powers. You of all people that is into power level thing should've deduced this by now instead of arguing without much context.

Second, and funny enough, the narrator of their fight said the fight kept swinging in favour from one side to the other with no clear winners. The joke here is that after three days of intense fight, the WSM, Whitebeared, couldn't defeat Rodger. He's the one man who prime Whitebeared couldn't defeat in actual physical combat that went on for days, mind you, they were both fighting with something far superior to fruit powers. I'm really at a loss here; what more do you want from Rodger in terms of power scaling?

1. His attack would have been more powerful if he incorporated the DF powers into it like we have seen him do in Marineford - holding back.
2. Roger is the one who sought a death fight with Whitebeard(ch966 or end of 965) so it was Roger who failed, not Whitebeard.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

1. His attack would have been more powerful if he incorporated the DF powers into it like we have seen him do in Marineford - holding back.
2. Roger is the one who sought a death fight with Whitebeard(ch966 or end of 965) so it was Roger who failed, not Whitebeard.

@nik87 flawed logic here mate:

1. How can one incorporate Haki into Quake (non-physical force).
It's best to understand that some powers don't work together with Haki hence they are never shown.
It'd be like saying Haki can be incorporated into fire (Mera Mera no mi) so we get black fire as a product. Amaterasu anyone?
It's very apparent some DF's cannot be imbued with Haki as it makes no sense whatsoever.
DF powers like Big Mom's similarly goes beyond comprehension when seeking to combine it with Haki. It's impossible!

2. Roger sought a fight with Whitebeard out of boredom after taking out Marine weaklings. The same small fries Whitebeard evaded in order not to draw endless attention from the Marines. Meanwhile Roger was seeking to face characters like Garp and Sengoku and was estatic to find Whitebeard nearby.
It wasn't a death fight as you claim, rather at least in Roger's POV, more of a cure to boredom.

 

[Fox666]

IMHO it's clear Roger and Whitebeard were equals

We did not see Whitebeard using his fruit, but after 3 days I don't see any reason to assume he didn't

Especially when Whitebeard seems willing to use his fruit if he gets a little angry

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@nik87 flawed logic here mate:

1. How can one incorporate Haki into Quake (non-physical force).
It's best to understand that some powers don't work together with Haki hence they are never shown.
It'd be like saying Haki can be incorporated into fire (Mera Mera no mi) so we get black fire as a product. Amaterasu anyone?
It's very apparent some DF's cannot be imbued with Haki as it makes no sense whatsoever.
DF powers like Big Mom's similarly goes beyond comprehension when seeking to combine it with Haki. It's impossible!

2. Roger sought a fight with Whitebeard out of boredom after taking out Marine weaklings. The same small fries Whitebeard evaded in order not to draw endless attention from the Marines. Meanwhile Roger was seeking to face characters like Garp and Sengoku and was estatic to find Whitebeard nearby.
It wasn't a death fight as you claim, rather at least in Roger's POV, more of a cure to boredom.

Ahm, no.

You definitely CAN combine two non-physical types of attacks. At least I don't see why not.

Mind you we're talking about advanced application of haki here.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Ahm, no.

You definitely CAN combine two non-physical types of attacks. At least I don't see why not.

Mind you we're talking about advanced application of haki here.

Can you back this up?
A panel where Haki and Gura Gura no mi have been combined.
Or Haki + Soru Soru no mi
Or Haki + Mera Mera no mi
Or Haki + Ice DF, Lighting DF, etc.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Yonkou is very well balanced in terms of power level, i guess we might not be able to say who is the strongest not until we get clear and full fights.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Incorrect. Sanji is stronger than Judge, but he is stronger than Zoro since one stab to Zoro is all he needs .

Does not even make sense. Judge does not use scythe and zoro will get 3 swords in this hypothetical fight. Also zoro does not fight in air so judge has disadvantage on that.

 

[nik87]

@nik87 flawed logic here mate:

1. How can one incorporate Haki into Quake (non-physical force).
It's best to understand that some powers don't work together with Haki hence they are never shown.
It'd be like saying Haki can be incorporated into fire (Mera Mera no mi) so we get black fire as a product. Amaterasu anyone?
It's very apparent some DF's cannot be imbued with Haki as it makes no sense whatsoever.
DF powers like Big Mom's similarly goes beyond comprehension when seeking to combine it with Haki. It's impossible!

2. Roger sought a fight with Whitebeard out of boredom after taking out Marine weaklings. The same small fries Whitebeard evaded in order not to draw endless attention from the Marines. Meanwhile Roger was seeking to face characters like Garp and Sengoku and was estatic to find Whitebeard nearby.
It wasn't a death fight as you claim, rather at least in Roger's POV, more of a cure to boredom.

Nothing flawed mate.
1. We saw him incorporate his DF into his naginata swings. The 3 Admirals had to block his Quakes.
2. Roger wanted to risk death, last panel of ch 965. Yeah...WB avoided Marine weaklings, only to walk into the Marineford like a boss, lmao.

I don't see any reason to assume he didn't

Same reason he didnt go all out in MF until Ace died. His crew was right there and him going all out with his DF powers means death for all of them.

 

[kcd]

Even though I most certainly don't buy that Whitebeard was stronger and think he was equal to Roger... I also can't agree that WB earthquake power + advanced haki isn't a far greater threat than his fruit power alone which Admirals (mind you it took all three of them) have shown the ability to defend themselves from.

You think adding vibrations to armament haki would make the haki become stronger?

Like... will the haki be coated on top of the vibrations? Or, will it come into play after the vibrations have done it's work?

Or... Or... You think the tremor or vibrations will mix together with his haki and make his attack stronger? Lol.
Getting down to specifics, there should be a reason why you think adding tremor or vibrations to haki would make his out-put brute force stronger. Not all fruits work like Luffy's you know.

which Admirals (mind you it took all three of them) have shown the ability to defend themselves from.

And let's keep things in perspective. The three admirals had to team up so that they could protect the entire plaza, not just themselves. You do know the building they were was huge, right? Like really huge. It wasn't just full body armament, it was FULL-BUILDING armament to protect the entire plaza. That's why all three had to participate; doesn't mean only one couldn't deflect it if it was just to protect themselves. You should argue with context from the manga.

2. Roger is the one who sought a death fight with Whitebeard(ch966 or end of 965) so it was Roger who failed, not Whitebeard.

Even you that claimed to be into power level stuff, you can't come up with a good defense as to why the so called WSM couldn't defeat Rodger in three days even though we were told it was a fight where the balance was constantly shifting between the two parties.

Personally, I definitely wouldn't take Mihawk's title serious if the manga told us there was a swordsman he couldn't beat after he became WSS. Though that was by the way but I hope you get the point... The duty was on Whitebeared to remain the world's strongest man. It was his duty to remain unrivalled, not to be someone else's equal. More over, you are also the one claiming WB was the strongest, so It's your duty to prove beyond doubt he was stronger than Rodger, not me.

Anyways, my final take is that the two of them were the strongest. As one died, the second remained the strongest. At least we can agree on that, or agree to disagree.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The 3 Admirals had to block his Quakes.

What would you have them do. Take it on like Blackbeard?

Incorporating his fruit powers into his blade has nothing to do with Haki. More importantly, it could even be his own style of df awakening but that's just conjecture.
Nonetheless, Haki (CoA) cannot be imbued to non-physical things so WB using it on his blade is not a revelation.

 

[nik87]

Even you that claimed to be into power level stuff, you can't come up with a good defense as to why the so called WSM couldn't defeat Rodger in three days

Easy, because he held back, already explained, while Roger, on the other hand, wanted to risk death.

you are also the one claiming WB was the strongest, so It's your duty to prove beyond doubt he was stronger than Rodger, not me.

I dont have to, you dont have to, manga already did it. Oda gave WSM title to Whitebeard, a strength related title while Roger got non-strength related title...

What would you have them do. Take it on like Blackbeard?

You missed the point, lol. I said he held back his DF powers, you missed the point and compared something else and I gave you the example of what he held back, DF powers incorporated into his naginata which the 3 Admirals had to block.
I never said anything about Haki, that's you assuming something else. I said his DF powers were missing in that clash which he clearly can incorporate.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Easy, because he held back, already explained, while Roger, on the other hand, wanted to risk death.


I dont have to, you dont have to, manga already did it. Oda gave WSM title to Whitebeard, a strength related title while Roger got non-strength related title...


You missed the point, lol. I said he held back his DF powers, you missed the point and compared something else and I gave you the example of what he held back, DF powers incorporated into his naginata which the 3 Admirals had to block.
I never said anything about Haki, that's you assuming something else. I said his DF powers were missing in that clash which he clearly can incorporate.

You got a single panel of a clash that took probably seconds and they fought for days.

How your trolling continues to bait people is astounding, moe-kun

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Anyways, my final take is that the two of them were the strongest. As one died, the second remained the strongest. At least we can agree on that, or agree to disagree.

Although, it is widely claimed they are even. I wonder why Roger scarred Whitebeard yet Whitebeard was unable to scar Roger throughout their battles.

Easy, because he held back, already explained, while Roger, on the other hand, wanted to risk death.


I dont have to, you dont have to, manga already did it. Oda gave WSM title to Whitebeard, a strength related title while Roger got non-strength related title...


You missed the point, lol. I said he held back his DF powers, you missed the point and compared something else and I gave you the example of what he held back, DF powers incorporated into his naginata which the 3 Admirals had to block.
I never said anything about Haki, that's you assuming something else. I said his DF powers were missing in that clash which he clearly can incorporate.

Actually, you initially stated that WB's attack would've been more powerful if he combined his Haki with his DF, hence my reply thus far.

Since this is what you mean, I believe someone already stated how little panel time was given to a supposed 3 day battle. So u can't question that Whitebeard never once used his DF throughout.
All we were shown was one high quality exchange which was even.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Can you back this up?
A panel where Haki and Gura Gura no mi have been combined.
Or Haki + Soru Soru no mi
Or Haki + Mera Mera no mi
Or Haki + Ice DF, Lighting DF, etc.

So this advanced haki that we were shown a detailed explanation of cannot be incorporated into whatever attack it's user wants to combine it with?

I see no reasons it can't.

Advanced haki is literally an energy blast. It can be combined with almost anything. What could possibly stop WB from using Gura Gura plus advanced haki?

Absolutely no reason to assume he can't/couldn't do that.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Advanced haki is literally an energy blast. It can be combined with almost anything.

Pure conjecture...
All the people who have used it never once combined it with their DF powers (for those who had one).

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You think adding vibrations to armament haki would make the haki become stronger?

Like... will the haki be coated on top of the vibrations? Or, will it come into play after the vibrations have done it's work?

What? Man I don't know how you interpreted my words to come down to such a conclusion.

I'm saying it's definitely possible to increase the power of an attack if you simply add some haki to it.

Regular armament works with fruits like Gomu Gomu etc., but I'm not talking about regular armament. Advanced armament = energy blast. It will most definitely increase the attack power of Gura Gura.

No reason to think otherwise. If you will, I might rephrase myself and say that it's not exactly a mixture of two powers but rather two powers being used simultaneously and directed at someone.

It's definitely an upgrade to only using advanced armament/Gura Gura.

Btw happy New year to everyone.

 

[kcd]

I dont have to, you dont have to, manga already did it. Oda gave WSM title to Whitebeard, a strength related title while Roger got non-strength related title...

Lol... Mr Nik, like I said, I definitely won't take Mihawk's title serious if we were told he had an equal when it comes to swordsmanship.

Same goes for WB. He logically can't be the strongest when there's someone at least equal to him.

Anyways, regardless of what you reply, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Although, it is widely claimed they are even. I wonder why Roger scarred Whitebeard yet Whitebeard was unable to scar Roger throughout their battles.

I didn't notice the scar but it's not surprising either. They're both capable of hurting each other.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 31, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 31, 2019 ---

What? Man I don't know how you interpreted my words to come down to such a conclusion.

I'm saying it's definitely possible to increase the power of an attack if you simply add some haki to it.

Regular armament works with fruits like Gomu Gomu etc., but I'm not talking about regular armament. Advanced armament = energy blast. It will most definitely increase the attack power of Gura Gura.

No reason to think otherwise. If you will, I might rephrase myself and say that it's not exactly a mixture of two powers but rather two powers being used simultaneously and directed at someone.

It's definitely an upgrade to only using advanced armament/Gura Gura.

Btw happy New year to everyone.

OK

 

[Pirate Queen]

Oda wouldn't state serious of Law and Sanji stating to dwindle the forces if he was planning to come back. Sanji knows how to finish what he set to do and to still not have him while Holdem and Kamazou came back shows he isn't coming back if they are able to. Even Ancient Zoans know to take hard beating and stay down for awhile.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 31, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 31, 2019 ---

Nah Hawkins was with him. If would notice that. PO is K.O.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 31, 2019 ---

Dude get off your biased hate and that you got nothing to proof that at all. We past saw saw PO screaming in pain from Sanji using Base Kicks and he was toss around. If that all it takes, if Sanji try harder, he be down for long time. Sanji beat him and no proof PO is active or escape. Your too much insecurity and need to learn when your wrong, your wrong.

no one is bashing Sanji. You are being confronted with facts and don't know how to counter them properly so you immediately assume we are belittling Sanji when the fat remains that a week is a long time for someone to recover in the OP verse unless they are killed

 

[nik87]

Actually, you initially stated that WB's attack would've been more powerful if he combined his Haki with his DF, hence my reply thus far.

No, that's not what I said. My responses have always been about his DF, not Haki. If you can quote me saying Haki it's definitely a typo but I doubt it.

u can't question that Whitebeard never once used his DF throughout.

I can be 100% sure that even if he used his DF he didnt go all out with it bcs the island would have sunk.

Anyways, regardless of what you reply, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough, regardless, one of them has the WSM title, the other doesnt. One has the power to destroy the world, the other doesnt.
One died fighting the combined might of Marines and Shichibukai while the other was executed in chains...

 

[jaymizzo]

Fair enough, regardless, one of them has the WSM title, the other doesnt. One has the power to destroy the world, the other doesnt.
One died fighting the combined might of Marines and Shichibukai while the other was executed in chains...

How is this not baiting?