One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

Not today.

But Moriah looks very different in chapter 0, and was probably stronger.

While Kaido was just an apprentice.

Moriah's entire crew was slaughtered by Kaido and he himself was given PTSD by the whole ordeal. The way its presented in story, it was a stomp.

Moriah may have been stronger during that point in time of the confrontation, but that still doesn't mean he was equal to Kaido.

Kaido being a former apprentice means nothing. That was years before they even fought. Kaido had to have been a full fledged Captain by that point since the fight was said to have taken place in Wano.

 

[Fox666]

Nah. This is just twisting things in trying to make Moriah look good. Kaido and Moriah are certainly not equals.
They fought, Kaido defeated him and his crew. It's no different from Oden versus Ashura. Oden defeated Ashura and his crew/gang.
Moriah might've been strong back in the days but his situation is no different from Crocodile. They felt strong enough to challenge monsters. They got wrecked and looked good while at it

How am twisting things if I'm simply repeating what is said in the manga?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2020 ---

Moriah's entire crew was slaughtered by Kaido and he himself was given PTSD by the whole ordeal. The way its presented in story, it was a stomp.

Moriah may have been stronger during that point in time of the confrontation, but that still doesn't mean he was equal to Kaido.

Kaido being a former apprentice means nothing. That was years before they even fought. Kaido had to have been a full fledged Captain by that point since the fight was said to have taken place in Wano.

Moriah failed to protect his crew, that doesn't necessarily means he wasn't strong enough to fight Kaido on a 1-on-1.

For example, Law had his crew captured in Wano. Hawkins could have killed them if he wanted.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

How am twisting things if I'm simply repeating what is said in the manga?

You quoted what was in the coloured version and I believe I mentioned how erroneous the coloured version translations usually is.
Moreover, @Lexusflame already confirmed what was mentioned in the actual translation.

Moriah is not Kaido's Whitebeard, and will never be.
Monsters may get weak, but they remain monsters for life. Moriah is as weak af and he isn't even old or sick. Just fat, lazy and seriously weak.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2020 ---

Moriah failed to protect his crew, that doesn't necessarily means he wasn't strong enough to fight Kaido on a 1-on-1.

I'll give you a better example. Luffy felt strong enough to challenge Kaido one on one. Guess what? He got wrecked.
Was he able to go toe to toe with Kaido? Yes.
Did he look good doing that? Yes.
Was he truly a match for Kaido? No.
Did he get utterly defeated? Yes.

Only difference in Luffy and Moriah's case is that Luffy's will is still intact. Moriah was totally broken.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Kaido's own crew was falsely claiming Luffy was matching Kaido.

Imagine what Pirates who didnt even witness the event first hand

The jailers even thought Luffy shpuld have been as big as the AllStar because his "feat" of matching Kaido was overblown

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Kaido's own crew was falsely claiming Luffy was matching Kaido.

Imagine what Pirates who didnt even witness the event first hand

The jailers even thought Luffy shpuld have been as big as the AllStar because his "feat" of matching Kaido was overblown

They even said worse. That Luffy was beating/pummeling Kaido.

View media item 23168
It seems even Kaido's crew mates do not understand how durable he is.
Just bcos he's getting beat doesn't mean he's losing.

 

[nik87]

This is either head cannon or forgetfulness.
Moriah was never said to be anywhere equal to Kaido.
The narration was that he challenged Kaido and was trashed very badly (and had all his crew mates killed/annihilated).
Challenging a badass does not mean you are on the same level.
Crocodile challenged Whitebeard and was trashed but no one mentioned they were equals.
Preposterous to say the least.

Moriah was never stated to be equals with Kaido. It was a miss translation that has persisted even to this day. What was actually said was that Kaido basically just wrecked Moriah's crew
No it was a mistranslated scan. Neither headcanon or forgetfulness.
It has been used for years to hype Moriah, but it was just a mistake.
It was huge back in the day when good translations were scarce

It is not a mistranslation. Here are both old Viz versions and new version from Stephen Paul:

Make of it what you will but that's what it says and thus my post about the will being crucial element of how powerful one is.
Moriah has backed his raw power up. His control over it was trash, as stated by Zoro or Robin, he miscalculated his own capacity and that is probably because of the broken will. That would also explain how the weak Crocodile of Alabasta has done well in Marineford. After all, we shouldnt doubt the will, it is what saved Luffy's ass against Katakuri.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

It is not a mistranslation. Here are both old Viz versions and new version from Stephen Paul:

Make of it what you will but that's what it says and thus my post about the will being crucial element of how powerful one is.
Moriah has backed his raw power up. His control over it was trash, as stated by Zoro or Robin, he miscalculated his own capacity and that is probably because of the broken will. That would also explain how the weak Crocodile of Alabasta has done well in Marineford. After all, we shouldnt doubt the will, it is what saved Luffy's ass against Katakuri.

This is exactly what @Lexusflame said and what I was trying to prove. Meanwhile, @Fox666 was getting the idea they were equals.

Luffy also went toe to toe with Kaido, even dominating him at one point. He's far from being Kaido's equal.
One thing is clear, Moriah got trashed and his crew annihilated by the monster Kaido.

 

[nik87]

This is exactly what @Lexusflame said and what I was trying to prove. Meanwhile, @Fox666 was getting the idea they were equals.

Luffy also went toe to toe with Kaido, even dominating him at one point. He's far from being Kaido's equal.
One thing is clear, Moriah got trashed and his crew annihilated by the monster Kaido.

Let's hope this current flashback shows what actually happened in that fight.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Let's hope this current flashback shows what actually happened in that fight.

You and me both mate.

 

[M3J]

They even said worse. That Luffy was beating/pummeling Kaido.

View media item 23168
It seems even Kaido's crew mates do not understand how durable he is.
Just bcos he's getting beat doesn't mean he's losing.

How is that worse? Luffy was pummeling Kaidou....

 

[Fox666]

Monsters may get weak, but they remain monsters for life. Moriah is as weak af and he isn't even old or sick. Just fat, lazy and seriously weak.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I'm saying Moriah was not a monster to begin with. He may have been strong in his younger days, but not at the level of the established monsters of the One Piece world.
And in case you still don't get, I'm talking about the likes of Roger, Rocks, Whitebeard, Kaido, Garp, Sengoku, Big Mom, Shanks, Rayleigh...

These are guys who regardless of how sick or old they become, retain amazing strength.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 13, 2020 ---

How is that worse? Luffy was pummeling Kaidou....

It's worse if they think that makes Luffy equal or even remotely superior to Kaido (even for a second).

 

[Fox666]

I'm saying Moriah was not a monster to begin with. He may have been strong in his younger days, but not at the level of the established monsters of the One Piece world.
And in case you still don't get, I'm talking about the likes of Roger, Rocks, Whitebeard, Kaido, Garp, Sengoku, Big Mom, Shanks, Rayleigh...

These are guys who regardless of how sick or old they become, retain amazing strength.

Again, Kaido was just an apprentice back then...

 

[M3J]

It's worse if they think that makes Luffy equal or even remotely superior to Kaido (even for a second).

I don't think they were, but even if they were, Luffy was landing blows on Kaidou. Hard not to deny that he was pummeling Kaidou even if it had no effect.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Again, Kaido was just an apprentice back then...

I think you are mixing up the timelines. Kaido was already established when Moriah challenged him. It was in Wano and that was 23 years ago.

Meanwhile, Kaido was only an apprentice while on Rocks' crew not afterwards. A distant 38 years from the current timeline.

Kaido was most likely a captain as quickly as 5 years following the Rocks'crew disbandment.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do you wanna know all you need to know about Moriah?

He attacked a Yonko crew by himself... No, let me clarify

Gecko Moriah, eater of the Kage Kage no Mi (THE SHADOW SHADOW DEVIL FRUIT) attacked a Yonko's territory by HIMSELF in the MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING DAY.

The shadow user... attacked in the middle of the day.

He is the definition of hopeless lol

 

[nik87]

The shadow user... attacked in the middle of the day.
He is the definition of hopeless lol

I dont see the problem in there. What am I missing?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I dont see the problem in there. What am I missing?

1. he attacked a Yonko and his commanders solo

2. Moriah powers are vastly more effective at night so if he was going to go on the offensive he chose the absolute worst time to do it. He could have atleast defeated upstart rookies that are half way decent, stolen their shadows and used stronger Zombies to attack and not just fodder Zombies. It would have been just as stupid, but at least he would have been shown to be a little more competent

 

[nik87]

1. he attacked a Yonko and his commanders solo

2. Moriah powers are vastly more effective at night so if he was going to go on the offensive he chose the absolute worst time to do it. He could have atleast defeated upstart rookies that are half way decent, stolen their shadows and used stronger Zombies to attack and not just fodder Zombies. It would have been just as stupid, but at least he would have been shown to be a little more competent

1. As far as I know, he didnt attack a Yonko solo but together with his famous crew which was annihilated by Kaido.

2. During that time he relied on his crew and not on the Zombies afaik, perhaps he had some special ones, who arent less effective during day than during night(dont remember anything affecting his powers whether it's day or night), but his heavy hitter Zombies should be a thing he focused on after his crew was crushed. What we know is that he didnt have Ryuma during that time or Zoro and Sanji zombies or Oars, probably not even Hogback, Absalom and Perona since those seemed fine and not crushed by Kaido and afaik it was Hogback who did the zombie army thing.

 

[Pirate Queen]

1. As far as I know, he didnt attack a Yonko solo but together with his famous crew which was annihilated by Kaido.

2. During that time he relied on his crew and not on the Zombies afaik, perhaps he had some special ones, who arent less effective during day than during night(dont remember anything affecting his powers whether it's day or night), but his heavy hitter Zombies should be a thing he focused on after his crew was crushed. What we know is that he didnt have Ryuma during that time or Zoro and Sanji zombies or Oars, probably not even Hogback, Absalom and Perona since those seemed fine and not crushed by Kaido and afaik it was Hogback who did the zombie army thing.

Your confusing the situation...

I'm talking about Moria attacking Blackbeard, not Kaido