One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Battle worn doesn't seem like an excuse when even with clashes, none of the admirals stayed down for long, if at all. Plus, Akainu managed to take off 1/4 or 1/2 of Whitebeard's head. It's hard to determine whether Whitebeard could have beaten Akainu if he wasn't wounded and exhausted from fighting because of Akainu's freakish strength.

 

[ShishiSonson]

I agree, the 3 admirals are +/- on Yonkou level.

Young Ace and Jinbei fought about 5 days. Aokiji and Akainu fought 10 days.

BM and Kaidou seems to be freaks/monsters. Like they said, commun logic do not apply to them.
Still Akainu's magma power is deadly. Kizaru's lightning is also a powerful attacking power.
We do not know about Shanks' haki level and how it will affect the logia users in a 1 vs 1 fight.

Akainu vs BM or Kaidou is not an easy win for BM or Kaidou.

About WB, Akainu managed to deadly injure WB.

So I would say,

Yonkou
...
Garp-Sengoku
...
Admirals


For the shichibukais, the power level is way to different between them.
Law wasn't strong enough to beat Doflamingo, Shanks seems to be the strongest amongst them and Buggy he weakest one.
Mihawk may be around the Admirals levels, maybe Boa Hancock too.
Doflamingo is definitly under them.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I agree, the 3 admirals are +/- on Yonkou level.

Young Ace and Jinbei fought about 5 days. Aokiji and Akainu fought 10 days.

BM and Kaidou seems to be freaks/monsters. Like they said, commun logic do not apply to them.
Still Akainu's magma power is deadly. Kizaru's lightning is also a powerful attacking power.
We do not know about Shanks' haki level and how it will affect the logia users in a 1 vs 1 fight.

Akainu vs BM or Kaidou is not an easy win for BM or Kaidou.

About WB, Akainu managed to deadly injure WB.

So I would say,

Yonkou
...
Garp-Sengoku
...
Admirals


For the shichibukais, the power level is way to different between them.
Law wasn't strong enough to beat Doflamingo, Shanks seems to be the strongest amongst them and Buggy he weakest one.
Mihawk may be around the Admirals levels, maybe Boa Hancock too.
Doflamingo is definitly under them.

agree, i dont know why admirals are seen as below yonkou
One piece is not always inconsistent, but its pretty consistent in showing admirals can fight yonkou.
Whitebeard never beat any admirals

 

[ShishiSonson]

agree, i dont know why admirals are seen as below yonkou
One piece is not always inconsistent, but its pretty consistent in showing admirals can fight yonkou.
Whitebeard never beat any admirals

Exactly, MarineFord was never about 1 vs 1 fight. It was a battle royal.
Joz was able to hit Aokiji twice. But 1 moment was enough to Aokiji to beat/stop Joz.

I agree on the fact that in One Piece, the fights are not always consistent (Luffy having a hard time against Don Chinjao, Bellamy on Dress Rosa, etc.).

 

[nik87]

Couldn'the Admirals themselves become a Yonkou if they weren't marines??

Yes, if they had a crew and a territory to make them a threat big enough to be called a Yonko.

 

[john ellis]

Legit question why do people put admiral level below yonko level? It makes no sense for aged Garp to not be on aged whitebeard level yet alone aged very sick whitebeard level at the very least. Prime garp is atleast on prime whitebeard level, and garp was still activate in hunting pirates. I’d argue garp probably saw more combat being a marine as whitebeard being a yonko. I know marineford does terrible power scaling. But honestly garp proabbly didn’t fight for a reason. whitebeard was possibly still the strongest yonko, probably unlikely but it would explain why 2/3 admirals didn’t do too well against him. They were low to mid yonko level and he was still high yonko level. I’m winning to accept there low to mid yonko level but I wouldn’t put them on a different level all together. It makes no sense if the entire navy+warlords=1 yonko. The marines said they don’t have the resources to defeat kaido+big mom, it’s just because there resources are scattered and slightly weakened they can’t get enough of the forces required to beat them. Maybe the new admirals I’ll accept are more comparible to high commander level.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Legit question why do people put admiral level below yonko level? It makes no sense for aged Garp to not be on aged whitebeard level yet alone aged very sick whitebeard level at the very least. Prime garp is atleast on prime whitebeard level, and garp was still activate in hunting pirates. I’d argue garp probably saw more combat being a marine as whitebeard being a yonko. I know marineford does terrible power scaling. But honestly garp proabbly didn’t fight for a reason. whitebeard was possibly still the strongest yonko, probably unlikely but it would explain why 2/3 admirals didn’t do too well against him. They were low to mid yonko level and he was still high yonko level. I’m winning to accept there low to mid yonko level but I wouldn’t put them on a different level all together. It makes no sense if the entire navy+warlords=1 yonko. The marines said they don’t have the resources to defeat kaido+big mom, it’s just because there resources are scattered and slightly weakened they can’t get enough of the forces required to beat them. Maybe the new admirals I’ll accept are more comparible to high commander level.

Im speaking individually.

1 Yonko = 1 Admiral

Unless im misunderstanding the question

 

[Holt]

Yonko > Admiral, but it's close enough that you could probably toss them in the same tier. WB vs Akainu is a good enough indication. They both battled numerous people and WB was clearly far from his best (with sickness, injuries etc), but Akainu did take out part of his face while being attacked. Akainu managed to tank WB's attacks too without very serious damage and went on to beat half the people on that battlefield. I'd argue though that Akainu > Aokiji and Kizaru tho, or perhaps it's more like the other 2 are not as bloodthirsty (it still counts anyway).
Luffy isn't Yonko/Admiral tier currently. He's still a tier below.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

For Mihawk/Shanks, Oda imo, has been intentionally sly about their duels and rivalry. I think the fandom want to believe that Shanks has to be > Mihawk overall, otherwise there are quite some huge implications. However, Oda does say Mihawk is the WSS even though Shanks classifies as a swordsman. Still though, every time shanks is mentioned, CoC is the first and mainly dominant thing said. I personally think Mihawk is still the better swordsman, as long as Shanks isn't using CoC. Probably more skill, strength etc (we've never even see Shanks do a slash attack). While Mihawk was interested in "measuring" the difference between him and old WB, Shanks had already evenly (from what we saw at least) clashed with WB.

Another thing is, when the Shichibukia were dissolved, the marines didn't send any special forces to capture Mihawk (or attempt anyway). We've seen how much the marines talk about confronting the yonko and how much effort they would need to put in. It's not a matter of crew too. When Kizaru met Rayleigh on SA, both he (Kizaru) and Garp confirmed that they can't capture him without making serious preparations and this is considering an admiral was already on ground. Imo, there's definitely more to Mihawk/Shanks, but I can't honestly see how overall, Mihawk > Shanks.

 

[Fox666]

Another thing is, when the Shichibukia were dissolved, the marines didn't send any special forces to capture Mihawk (or attempt anyway). We've seen how much the marines talk about confronting the yonko and how much effort they would need to put in. It's not a matter of crew too. When Kizaru met Rayleigh on SA, both he (Kizaru) and Garp confirmed that they can't capture him without making serious preparations and this is considering an admiral was already on ground. Imo, there's definitely more to Mihawk/Shanks, but I can't honestly see how overall, Mihawk > Shanks.

Supposedly Weevil strength is on par on Whitebeard on his younger days, yet the Marines didn't appeared to make any special preparations to fight him either...

 

[Holt]

Supposedly Weevil strength is on par on Whitebeard on his younger days, yet the Marines didn't appeared to make any special preparations to fight him either...

Lol, fair point. Then again, younger version of WB is not prime WB either. It's just something to say he's rather powerful and rightly so. He has taken out most of WB's crew anyway. However, unless you're trying to say Weevil = Mihawk, then ....It'd make more sense if they're underestimating Weevil, he's still a wild card afterall. Mihawk holds the title of WSS. It's kinda different. Unless the marines weren't serious about capturing the shichibukia (or they simply don't rate them that much)

 

[Pirate Queen]

I believe the phrasing was something along the lines of "We can't possibly expect to take on 2 Legends at the same time" despite Rayleigh being by himself

 

[M3J]

Another thing is, when the Shichibukia were dissolved, the marines didn't send any special forces to capture Mihawk (or attempt anyway). We've seen how much the marines talk about confronting the yonko and how much effort they would need to put in. It's not a matter of crew too. When Kizaru met Rayleigh on SA, both he (Kizaru) and Garp confirmed that they can't capture him without making serious preparations and this is considering an admiral was already on ground. Imo, there's definitely more to Mihawk/Shanks, but I can't honestly see how overall, Mihawk > Shanks.

Mihawk could be >>> Shanks in swordsmanship but inferior in overall combat.

And the difference between going after Rayleigh and going after Mihawk is that the Marines have gotten stronger and more ferocious or something, according to Jinbei, during the timeskip under Akainu's command. Wasn't someone also surprised that Marines sent fodders to get Mihawk, or was that members' reaction?


Anyway, I really don't see a reason to think Yonkou > admirals, especially when each of them are different with different sets of powers, strengths, and weaknesses. Aokiji for example might be more useless against Whitebeard because he can break out of ice, but Akainu took out half of Whitebeard's head and did some damage to him, all because of their different devil fruit power. Didn't Oda also hype up Akainu as the strongest?

 

[hokageji]

Supposedly Weevil strength is on par on Whitebeard on his younger days, yet the Marines didn't appeared to make any special preparations to fight him either...

Its a bit unfair to say that based on just one panel too.... Also, you only have 3 admirals, gotta pick them for the right shichibukais...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Didn them sped a '"Special" unit for Weevil? Like a super shield unit or something? I feel like they did

 

[M3J]

I don't think shichibukai can be considered a power level though, given the position depends on the overall notoriety and strength of crew, but is government-appointed to help them with fights. Mihawk could be Yonkou-level but be part of shichibukai just because of his fame and strength, while Buggy is weak but still a shichibukai because of his powerful crew.

One thing I wonder though, why not have the shichibukai's crews also join in against Whitebeard?

 

[nik87]

but inferior in overall combat.

What is overall combat including?

 

[Shasha23]

What is overall combat including?

Some fans love to use the phrase "stronger in overall combat" to justify their wrong assessment since they can't accept why the author made another character superior to their favorite character.

 

[Holt]

Mihawk could be >>> Shanks in swordsmanship but inferior in overall combat.

And the difference between going after Rayleigh and going after Mihawk is that the Marines have gotten stronger and more ferocious or something, according to Jinbei, during the timeskip under Akainu's command. Wasn't someone also surprised that Marines sent fodders to get Mihawk, or was that members' reaction?


Anyway, I really don't see a reason to think Yonkou > admirals, especially when each of them are different with different sets of powers, strengths, and weaknesses. Aokiji for example might be more useless against Whitebeard because he can break out of ice, but Akainu took out half of Whitebeard's head and did some damage to him, all because of their different devil fruit power. Didn't Oda also hype up Akainu as the strongest?

It doesn't really matter how ferocious the marines have gotten though. The power gap is not something that can be bypassed with that. Fuujitora is an admiral and yet we have Zoro and Sabo holding their own against him. If they were really that ferocious, then all marines will be bloodthirsty (not that it makes much of a difference anyway). The point is, if Mihawk really was stronger than a yonko (Shanks), the marines would have to at least send an admiral after him if they had any plans to capture. Anything less is pointless. I think they underestimate him (and Hancock and Weevil) but that only helps the Shanks > Mihawk point.

I do think Yonko > Admirals though. The only person I'd really put in the bracket even if being strict is Akainu. He has to be Yonko level. The others are barely there. DF or not, Akainu is an absolute monster tbh. For the other admirals, I don't really think they'd best a yonko 1v1 (except it's Blackbeard maybe). For Akainu, I can't say exactly. He's good enough to be firmly in the yonko bracket

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2020 ---

Some fans love to use the phrase "stronger in overall combat" to justify their wrong assessment since they can't accept why the author made another character superior to their favorite character.

Not really though. How much of a fuss did Mihawk's presence make at the war? Shanks definitely has more presence, and it's not just because he's a yonko. Oda has intentionally shrouded him in misery. He only pops up in ridiculously big moments that supposedly no one else but Shanks can do. Shanks showed up at the war and started off by negating Akainu who was basically murdering everyone on the pirate side. If Mihawk was strictly > Shanks, the WG wouldn't be so brash in decisions. I mean, abolishing the Shichibukai means adding another "yonko" to the seas right? Especially considering Mihawk is still very much active. They don't seem to care much though. Anyway, there isn't much to say on this until Oda divulges more. Mihawk has to be WSS for Zoro's dream anyway, but Shanks has CoC which Mihawk doesn't. We've seen how the big players use this (with Roger/WB and WB/Shanks lately). There's more to it, and that's likely the area Shanks uses to complement and prove his yonko status

 

[Shasha23]

The point is, if Mihawk really was stronger than a yonko (Shanks), the marines would have to at least send an admiral after him if they had any plans to capture. Anything less is pointless. I think they underestimate him (and Hancock and Weevil) but that only helps the Shanks > Mihawk point.

We saw a huge number of battleships go to Kuraigana how do you know that Kizaru, Fujitora or Ryokugyu are not on those ships?

Not really though. How much of a fuss did Mihawk's presence make at the war? Shanks definitely has more presence, and it's not just because he's a yonko. Oda has intentionally shrouded him in misery. He only pops up in ridiculously big moments that supposedly no one else but Shanks can do. Shanks showed up at the war and started off by negating Akainu who was basically murdering everyone on the pirate side. If Mihawk was strictly > Shanks, the WG wouldn't be so brash in decisions. I mean, abolishing the Shichibukai means adding another "yonko" to the seas right? Especially considering Mihawk is still very much active. They don't seem to care much though. Anyway, there isn't much to say on this until Oda divulges more. Mihawk has to be WSS for Zoro's dream anyway, but Shanks has CoC which Mihawk doesn't. We've seen how the big players use this (with Roger/WB and WB/Shanks lately). There's more to it, and that's likely the area Shanks uses to complement and prove his yonko status

He can have all the presence in the one but that still won't change the fundamental truth of him being inferior to Mihawk!

 

[Holt]

We saw a huge number of battleships go to Kuraigana how do you know that Kizaru, Fujitora or Ryokugyu are not on those ships?




He can have all the presence in the one but that still won't change the fundamental truth of him being inferior to Mihawk!

Well that's something big enough that wouldn't be glossed over.


As a swordsman yes. Mihawk doesn't have CoC though, which we've seen the yonko using to split the skies.