Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Fans are a bit weird when it comes to anything related to Zoro or Sanji

For some reason they think they can defeat a Yonko commander, that they are going to fight Kaido, etc

I totally agree.

Spoiler

Except the zoropart. #TeamDragonkiller"

 

[nik87]

You guys realize that King's Punch is the highest DC move we have so far and it was said to be ineffective while it can rekt the entire golem in single hit?
How is Luffy more effective when he cant come even close to King's Punch?

 

[Pirate Queen]

King's Punch can be strong enough to destroy the world but if there is no haki behind it it's basically useless against 99% of the OP top tiers.

What is a King punch going to do against Luffy who is immune to blunt attacks not coated in haki? Not a damn thing besides send Luffy flying and be a mild inconvenience. What's King punch going to do to Logias? What's it going to do to Kaido or Big Mom who can't be damaged through normal means?

King punch has so many drawback that it is useless 99.99999999999999% of the time.

 

[nik87]

King's Punch can be strong enough to destroy the world but if there is no haki behind it it's basically useless against 99% of the OP top tiers.
What is a King punch going to do against Luffy who is immune to blunt attacks not coated in haki? Not a damn thing besides send Luffy flying and be a mild inconvenience. What's King punch going to do to Logias? What's it going to do to Kaido or Big Mom who can't be damaged through normal means?
King punch has so many drawback that it is useless 99.99999999999999% of the time.

We are comparing it vs Pica's golem. It is useless despite being the highest DC feat we have in OP.
Destroying the golem isnt a solution since KP can destroy it easily and is far above anything that Luffy has.
As I said, just because it was easy for Zoro it doesnt make it easy for everyone else...

 

[M3J]

Still Sanji did most of the easy work of him. Plus if so then Zoro never truly defeat Pica on his own since Elizabetho and Ormbulus help him out too. Both honestly haven't gotten full 1 vs 1 and serious fight since pre-timeskip thinking on it. Wano though looks to deliver on something big Strawhats though as might be Enies Lobby of NW.

He asked them both to help mainly because Pica chose to go after Rebecca and the others. This wasn't because Zoro was weak or outmatched, but because Pica's devil fruit allowed him to get to Rebecca quickly. Had Pica stayed to fight Zoro, then Zoro likely would not have asked for help nor needed it. You can consider Zoro having defeated Pica on his own because Pica was not able to give Zoro an actual challenge other than Slash-A-Mole.

 

[Pirate Queen]

We are comparing it vs Pica's golem. It is useless despite being the highest DC feat we have in OP.
Destroying the golem isnt a solution since KP can destroy it easily and is far above anything that Luffy has.
As I said, just because it was easy for Zoro it doesnt make it easy for everyone else...

It's easy for anyone AROUND Zoro's level, don't get it twisted.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

It's easy for anyone AROUND Zoro's level, don't get it twisted.

So Yonko Commander?

 

[Pirate Queen]

So Yonko Commander?

If that's what you think Zoro is then yes.

Nik is implying you need to be a swordsmen of Zoro's caliber to beat Pica but that's not the case. You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

Overall Pica was weak as a NW combatant

 

[Sachsenhesse]

If that's what you think Zoro is then yes.

Nik is implying you need to be a swordsmen of Zoro's caliber to beat Pica but that's not the case. You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

Overall Pica was weak as a NW combatant

He wasnt. For his position he actually overperformed. From the combatants we have seen so far fight in the NW, only the Yonkous, Katakuri and Cracker, Doflamingo probably can defeat him, others will have a reallyyy hard time. Even Marco and Jozu are a bad matchup, since both lack real Aoe Attacks to corner him in a area like dressrosa.

 

[hokageji]

If that's what you think Zoro is then yes.

Nik is implying you need to be a swordsmen of Zoro's caliber to beat Pica but that's not the case. You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

Overall Pica was weak as a NW combatant

I think Pika's fruit allows him to assimilate with stone, rather than create one, correct me if i am wrong. So Pica did have a geographical advantage.

Now even for Zoro, he had to wait till the huge Golem seperated from the mainrock for Zoro to get a challenge. I think being a swordsmen did help Zoro there, allowing him to cut and thereby limit Pica's assimilating ability.

But having said that, dont think you need to be a swordsmen itself, i am sure anyone with a cutting ability, like Doflamingo or Mr1 would be able to tackle him too. The key is isolation, and in the scenario shown, Zoro seemed to be the most advantegous ability comparing others in that scenario. The other person i can think of is Crocodile, turning all the stone to sand.

 

[Pirate Queen]

He wasnt. For his position he actually overperformed. From the combatants we have seen so far fight in the NW, only the Yonkous, Katakuri and Cracker, Doflamingo probably can defeat him, others will have a reallyyy hard time. Even Marco and Jozu are a bad matchup, since both lack real Aoe Attacks to corner him in a area like dressrosa.

Absolute Pica wank lol jk jk. Good points! If I can rebuttal tho! Pica can't assimilate into stone smaller than his real body. We've seen this I'd his golem was destroyed, he couldn't escape into a pebble of say Luffy used Gatling Elephant gun to destroy the earth to dust. He would have to escape into the ground, which is why Zoro have to get thrown into the air and seperate him from the ground.

Literally all you need to do is seperate him from the ground and reduce the remaining pieces to where they are too small enough to trap him.

The question needs to be, can Luffy reduce big Rocks into smaller rocks? Yes he can. Anyone with sufficient power could.

Seperate Pica from the ground and it's an instant win because he can't run.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 26, 2020 ---

When you break a rock, two halves form correct, (or multiple, depending how you do it cutting vs breaking) All anyone has to do is attack the ground beneath the golem (or slice it) so that 2 halves form (one in the air, ground, or scattered) PIca is going to have to go into 1 of the pieces big enough to house his escape... If Zoro cut Pica and Pice went into the BOTTOM part of his golem Zoro would have been brought back to square one and the fight continued.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 26, 2020 ---

I think Pika's fruit allows him to assimilate with stone, rather than create one, correct me if i am wrong. So Pica did have a geographical advantage.

Now even for Zoro, he had to wait till the huge Golem seperated from the mainrock for Zoro to get a challenge. I think being a swordsmen did help Zoro there, allowing him to cut and thereby limit Pica's assimilating ability.

Cutting the stone or smashing it leads to the same result... Pica can't escape in a pebble so as long the rock is destroyed he is wrecked.

Pica isn't complicated. Zoro figured out how to do it and he isn't the smartest fights of the SH's as his strength alone more than makes up for needing to come up with any kind of strategy and yet... Zoro came up with 5 against Pica lol

 

[nik87]

It's easy for anyone AROUND Zoro's level, don't get it twisted.

That's not how it works. Being around Zoro's level doesnt give you the same stats and combat style that Zoro has.
King's Punch is the best example, higher DC than anyone else and yet ineffective. Pica is far bigger trouble than people realize.

You just need haki to be able to hit his read body and separate him from the ground... that's it.

If it only were that easy lol... Saying it isnt equal to doing it.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Literally all you need to do is seperate him from the ground and reduce the remaining pieces to where they are too small enough to trap him.

Yes all you need to do is: Lift a friggin mountain.

Punches destroy and make damage, but dont do enough AoE Dmg to actually separate the rocks. You need a cutting attack, or atleast something similar. Current Luffs could handle him thanks to futuresight(same as Katakuri), but Dressrosa Luffy was at disadvantage. (Which is another parallel to Arabasta, where Luffy wouldnt stand a chance against Mr.1)

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes all you need to do is: Lift a friggin mountain.

Punches destroy and make damage, but dont do enough AoE Dmg to actually separate the rocks. You need a cutting attack, or atleast something similar. Current Luffs could handle him thanks to futuresight(same as Katakuri), but Dressrosa Luffy was at disadvantage. (Which is another parallel to Arabasta, where Luffy wouldnt stand a chance against Mr.1)

Zoro didnt have to lift a freaking mountain... lifting isnt needed. Like I said, separating him from the ground and destroy the rock is all it takes, which is what Zoro did. It's not rocket science. As for Luffy being unable to defeat Mr. 1 is absolute nonsense and been proven to be ridiculous over and over again since Zoro wankers started the debate to put Mr. 1 over Crocodile.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 26, 2020 ---

That's not how it works. Being around Zoro's level doesnt give you the same stats and combat style that Zoro has.
King's Punch is the best example, higher DC than anyone else and yet ineffective. Pica is far bigger trouble than people realize.

If it only were that easy lol... Saying it isnt equal to doing it.

If King's Punch was imbued with Haki it would have been a one shot if he hit Pica dead on. It wasn't so it's just a powerfully physical punch.

If Zoro slashed Pica without haki it would be just as useless. Zoro using haki was the difference maker, not the attack itself.

 

[King Moe]

He asked them both to help mainly because Pica chose to go after Rebecca and the others. This wasn't because Zoro was weak or outmatched, but because Pica's devil fruit allowed him to get to Rebecca quickly. Had Pica stayed to fight Zoro, then Zoro likely would not have asked for help nor needed it. You can consider Zoro having defeated Pica on his own because Pica was not able to give Zoro an actual challenge other than Slash-A-Mole.

Same with Sanji. He didn't ask Jimbei to help him. He choose to go in while he fought him.

True, but how would Zoro since Pica keep hide and seek before he can strike him. Feel sooner or later he would need help.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

If King's Punch was imbued with Haki it would have been a one shot if he hit Pica dead on. It wasn't so it's just a powerfully physical punch.

How exactly would haki had helped? His destruction was top notch at a scale it cant be made any better, since he obliterated the stonearm. Pika isnt the mountain, he only controls the mountain.

If you punch Mr.3 Waxwall and you destroy it, it wont receive any more damage, when you add haki to the mix.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How exactly would haki had helped? His destruction was top notch at a scale it cant be made any better, since he obliterated the stonearm. Pika isnt the mountain, he only controls the mountain.

If you punch Mr.3 Waxwall and you destroy it, it wont receive any more damage, when you add haki to the mix.

Pica hides "within" his stone. Haki helps locate his actual body on top of it being obvious as fuck because the stone almost instantly begins to move

All you have to do it trap him. That it. He can't go into stone physically smaller than his body or he has no choice but to flee the stone and that's when he gets wrecked...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2020 ---

Zoro can instantly tell between stone and living stone and uses that, slicing smaller and smaller pieces until he gets trapped . Like I said it isnt rocket science

 

[M3J]

Same with Sanji. He didn't ask Jimbei to help him. He choose to go in while he fought him.

True, but how would Zoro since Pica keep hide and seek before he can strike him. Feel sooner or later he would need help.

Okay but he didn't need Jinbei anyway.

Zoro figured out that he can get to Pica by slicing the stones until it was too small for Pica to escape. Doesn't need help for that.

 

[King Moe]

Okay but he didn't need Jinbei anyway.

Zoro figured out that he can get to Pica by slicing the stones until it was too small for Pica to escape. Doesn't need help for that.

That's what I am saying. They were playing soccer ball with him. Jimbei choose to get involve, but Sanji didn't need the help.

Unless he goes underground or somewhere with more stone and dense. It would be tiresome on Zoro if he didn't get help.

 

[M3J]

But I'm saying that's unrelated as Jinbei was unnecessary, while Zoro only needed help in order to save the others as he wasn't as fast as Pica was traveling through stone. Otherwise Zoro would have won by himself, he didn't need help regardless.